Featured Are babies saved? Can they be saved?

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AgnosticBoy

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On another thread, a Christian member states the following:
Scooter said:
Salvation is by faith in Christ alone. Nothing else is required to be saved:
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Click to expand...

I wonder how can babies be saved if they don't have the ability to confess their sins nor understand sin and salvation. They obviously can't be saved by works either. So how are babies saved?

For Discussion:
1. Are babies automatically saved? I would imagine that they are not held culpable for their actions.
2. If not automatically saved, how can they be saved? Or is saved the wrong word, and they are just automatically righteous in God's eyes? Or does God not judge them at all?
 
Yes, babies are innocent. When David’s son with Bathsheba died he said “But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me”. (2 Sam.12:23) David said he would go to where his son was. Everyone, I believe, accepts David is in Heaven.

Not only do I believe infants go to Heaven, I believe mentally handicapped go to Heaven as well. What keeps us from Heaven is our sin. Infants and mentally disabled do not comprehend what sin is. Since God is a just God, I don’t believe He punishes those who honestly do not understand what sin is.
 
2 Samuel 12:23 (NIV)
23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.”

Scooter said:
David said he would go to where his son was. Everyone, I believe, accepts David is in Heaven.
Click to expand...
Maybe i missed it. When David said he would go where his son was, I don't see that as referring to Heaven. That could just mean going to where his grave is.

I also don't believe that David's baby is in Heaven based on our previous discussions here. I don't believe there's any passage that says any baby will be punished so of course I'm open to them being automatically saved. Just curious of any biblical passage to support that.
 
AgnosticBoy said:
When David said he would go where his son was, I don't see that as referring to Heaven. That could just mean going to where his grave is.
Click to expand...
John Gill:
I shall go to him;
to the state of the dead, to the grave, where his body was, or would be; to heaven and eternal happiness, where his soul was, as he comfortably hoped and believed: from whence it appears, that the Old Testament saints did not suppose an annihilation at death; but believed the immortality of the soul, a future state after death of eternal life and bliss:

Matthew Henry:
I shall go to him. First, To him to the grave. Note, The consideration of our own death should moderate our sorrow at the death of our relations. It is the common lot; instead of mourning for their death, we should think of our own: and, whatever loss we have of them now, we shall die shortly, and go to them. Secondly, To him to heaven, to a state of blessedness, which even the Old Testament saints had some expectation of. Godly parents have great reason to hope concerning their children that die in infancy that it is well with their souls in the other world
 
Scooter said:
AgnosticBoy said:
When David said he would go where his son was, I don't see that as referring to Heaven. That could just mean going to where his grave is.
Click to expand...
John Gill:
I shall go to him;
to the state of the dead, to the grave, where his body was, or would be; to heaven and eternal happiness, where his soul was, as he comfortably hoped and believed: from whence it appears, that the Old Testament saints did not suppose an annihilation at death; but believed the immortality of the soul, a future state after death of eternal life and bliss:

Matthew Henry:
I shall go to him. First, To him to the grave. Note, The consideration of our own death should moderate our sorrow at the death of our relations. It is the common lot; instead of mourning for their death, we should think of our own: and, whatever loss we have of them now, we shall die shortly, and go to them. Secondly, To him to heaven, to a state of blessedness, which even the Old Testament saints had some expectation of. Godly parents have great reason to hope concerning their children that die in infancy that it is well with their souls in the other world
Click to expand...
The Hebrew word for the phrase "shall go" in 2 Sam. 12:23 is hālaḵ.

Hālaḵ means:
  1. to go, walk, come
    1. (Qal)
      1. to go, walk, come, depart, proceed, move, go away
      2. to die, live, manner of life (fig.)
    2. (Piel)
      1. to walk
      2. to walk (fig.)
    3. (Hithpael)
      1. to traverse
      2. to walk about
    4. (Niphal) to lead, bring, lead away, carry, cause to walk
Click to expand...
Source: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/h1980/kjv/wlc/0-1/

Nothing in there refers to Heaven. I think your sources are mostly commentary and don't stick to meaning. But even the commentary part is not a good case. For one, even if it were referring to an afterlife, it doesn't specify where - in Abraham's bosom or elsewhere. If the commentary is saying it refers to Heaven then that would conflict the theology of the NT.
 
No one in the OT went to Heaven when they died. They went to Paradise, or Abraham's Bosom. When Christ arose and ascended to Heaven, He led those out of Paradise and took them to Heaven. Now however, when believers die, they go to Heaven. It is sin that separates people from God (Isa.59:2). Infants and mentally challenged people who cannot comprehend what sin is are not held responsible for what they do. Since God is a just judge, He will not punish an infant with Hell because the infant can't understand what sin is.

I can present numerous other Bible scholars besides John Gill and Matthew Henry who all agree that David meant he would go to his son after his own death. Here is a short piece from the website https://www.defendinginerrancy.com/bible-solutions/2_Samuel_12.23.php
All Infants Go to Heaven. Still others believe that all who die before the age of accountability will go to heaven. They base this on the following Scriptures. First, Isaiah 7:16 speaks of an age before a child is morally accountable, namely, “before the child shall know to refuse the evil and choose the good.” Second, David believed in life after death and the resurrection (Ps. 16:10–11), so when he spoke of going to be with his son who died after birth (2 Sam. 12:23), he implied that those who die in infancy go to heaven. Third, Psalm 139 speaks of an unborn baby as a creation of God whose name is written down in God’s “book” in heaven (vv. 14–16). Fourth, Jesus said, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God” (Mark 10:14), thus indicating that even little children will be in heaven. Fifth, some see support in Jesus’ affirmation that even “little ones” (i.e., children) have a guardian angel “in heaven” who watches over them (Matt. 18:10). Sixth, the fact that Christ’s death for all made little children savable, even before they believed (Rom. 5:18–19). Finally, Jesus’ indication that those who did not know were not morally responsible (John 9:41) is used to support the belief that there is heaven for those who cannot yet believe, even though there is no heaven for those who are old enough and refuse to believe (John 3:36).
Click to expand...
 
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Thanks for posting that, Scooter.

What stands out to me is Isaiah 7:16 that indicates babies would not be morally culpable. I don't view the other passages you bring up as being wrong in any way, but they just weren't clear or strong enough for me to say they support your case. (y)

I suppose then that there is an age or stage where children are held morally culpable.
 
@Scooter

Just a follow up with this question...
AgnosticBoy said:
Or is saved the wrong word, and they are just automatically righteous in God's eyes?
Click to expand...

In other words, do babies need to be saved?

I'm thinking no if sin doesn't apply to them or they aren't morally responsible.
 
AgnosticBoy said:
I suppose then that there is an age or stage where children are held morally culpable.
Click to expand...
We refer to that as the age of accountability. This age varies depending on the individual child. Some children mature faster than others. Usually somewhere between the age of 6-10 is when most kids begin to understand the concept of sin.
 
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