"Once saved, always saved". Is this view biblical?

[AgnosticBoy]

Many atheists and agnostics will tell you that they are former Christians. I consider myself to be a former Christian. I was born and raised a Christian. I was a fundamentalist Bible believing Christian, I prayed, went to Church occasionally, etc. But still some Christians will say that this is not enough to be considered a Christian because "once saved, always saved". In other words, it is impossible for a saved person to become a non-believer.

For Debate:
1. Is the once saved always saved view valid?
2. If it is valid, then were former Christians, like the ones I described above, not Christians in any sense of the word? Is there such a thing as a cultural Christian? Someone born and raised into it without being saved?

 

[Chapabel]

No. There is no such thing as a cultural Christian. Only those who are born-again are saved. Only the saved are adopted as God’s children. Once a person is saved, they are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Jesus said those given to Him by the Father were in His hand and no man can pluck them out of His hand.

So yes, once saved always saved. If never saved, never a Christian. Salvation is a choice each person must make for themselves. Being raised in church does not make anyone a Christian.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Here's one good description of a 'cultural Christian' from Wiki:

Cultural Christians are nonreligious persons who adhere to Christian values and appreciate Christian culture. As such, these individuals usually identify themselves as culturally Christians, and are often seen by practicing believers as nominal Christians. This kind of identification may be due to various factors, such as family background, personal experiences, and the social and cultural environment in which they grew up.[1]

Contrasting terms are "biblical Christian",[2] "committed Christian",[3] or "believing Christian".[4]

Another source adds the following, from GotQuestions:

A cultural Christian identifies with certain aspects of Christianity, such as the good works of Jesus, but rejects the spiritual aspects required to be a biblically defined Christian.

[emphasis added]

I disagree with the description from GotQuestions based on my experience. I can say that I used to believe and accept Jesus. Perhaps the belief wasn't as strong as I thought because when confronted with doubts (or strong enough reasons) I decided to abandon my belief.

It's probably more fair to say that the strength or type of belief matters towards Christianity and not just any belief.

 

[Chapabel]

We live in a time when people want to “identify” as different things. A man may identify as a woman, but in reality he’s still a man. I saw something on TV where a woman said she identified as a wolf and they showed clips of her running through the woods and howling. Regardless of what this poor woman believes, she is still a woman.

You have the right to identify as a Christian, a sheep or a mushroom if you choose to do so. However, unless you repent, seek forgiveness and ask Jesus to come into your life and save you, you are not a Christian and you never were. If it soothes your conscience by telling yourself you used to be a Christian I recommend actually becoming a Christian.

 

[Chapabel]

Here's one good description of a 'cultural Christian' from Wiki:


Another source adds the following, from GotQuestions:

[emphasis added]

I disagree with the description from GotQuestions based on my experience. I can say that I used to believe and accept Jesus. Perhaps the belief wasn't as strong as I thought because when confronted with doubts (or

BTW, wiki and other internet cites should not be considered authorities on topics of a Biblical nature. The Bible is the final authority concerning issues of Christianity. And the Bible makes it very clear what is required to be a Christian…and it’s not just identifying as one.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I can say that I used to believe and accept Jesus.

So did I. One Sunday afternoon when I was in 8th grade (age 13), I was more than ready to become a Christian. I read the “Four Spiritual Laws” pamphlet slowly and carefully, and I said the recommended prayer at the end.

Each morning, I read that day’s devotional in the monthly Upper Room publication. This was probably the right length and level of maturity. Trying to push through the Gospel of John was sometimes too much.

I tried to become more loving and forgiving of other people, and I think I succeeded. I sometimes took my Bible to school, and later on, I started wearing a male neck chain and a cross as a witness.

Witnessing was a big deal to me. Even so, I was conscious of not over-doing it and driving people away.

Our preacher sometimes used the phrase “obedient to the known will of God.” I worried about A LOT that I might be disobedient in this regard.

=================

And yet, if I tell a Christian I used to be a Christian, he or she will usually say I must not have been a real Christian.

In a sense, this is the move the Christian is Oh so highly motivated to make.

 

[Chapabel]

So did I. One Sunday afternoon when I was in 8th grade (age 13), I was more than ready to become a Christian. I read the “Four Spiritual Laws” pamphlet slowly and carefully, and I said the recommended prayer at the end.

Each morning, I read that day’s devotional in the monthly Upper Room publication. This was probably the right length and level of maturity. Trying to push through the Gospel of John was sometimes too much.

I tried to become more loving and forgiving of other people, and I think I succeeded. I sometimes took my Bible to school, and later on, I started wearing a male neck chain and a cross as a witness.

Witnessing was a big deal to me. Even so, I was conscious of not over-doing it and driving people away.

Our preacher sometimes used the phrase “obedient to the known will of God.” I worried about A LOT that I might be disobedient in this regard.

=================

And yet, if I tell a Christian I used to be a Christian, he or she will usually say I must not have been a real Christian.

In a sense, this is the move the Christian is Oh so highly motivated to make.

Did you ever confess your sins to God and ask for forgiveness? Did you repent of those sins? Did you pray and ask Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior? These are the necessary steps for salvation. Reciting words from a pamphlet does not make anyone a Christian.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

If it soothes your conscience by telling yourself you used to be a Christian I recommend actually becoming a Christian.

It is not a matter of conscience in my case. Although, I embrace many of the spiritual teachings of religion, but I can not bring myself to accepting any of them unless it is a decision that is based on logic and evidence.

You also bring up labels, and I find that not only to be a matter of the individual labelling themselves, but also people wanting to label the person. Till this day, some of my friends tend to label me a Conservative Christian just because I advocate for some of the marital rules of the Bible, like long term marriages, having kids being only for marriage, traditional roles, etc. On another site, I had to make a signature that said, "just because I defend conservatives from time to time doesn't make me a conservative".

And of course, the atheists are quick to view agnostics as being in the closet atheists.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Did you ever confess your sins to God and ask for forgiveness? Did you repent of those sins? Did you pray and ask Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior? These are the necessary steps for salvation. Reciting words from a pamphlet does not make anyone a Christian.

Technically, your point is correct. However, it seems that you're disregarding former Christians experience with religion. Even if we didn't accept Jesus as much as we thought we did, that doesn't mean we have no idea of what it's like to be a Christian. I see "real" Christians making some of the same arguments I used to make. They go to Church and sing, I used to also go to Church and sing, pray, etc.

 

[Chapabel]

I’m not disregarding their experience with religion at all. In fact their experience with religion is the root cause of them not being Christians. To be a Christian one must have an experience with Jesus. Having an idea of what it is to be a Christian still doesn’t make one a Christian. I have a good idea what it is like to be a professional football player. That does not make me a pro player.

The arguments I have presented come from the Bible. These aren’t just notions I’ve concocted. God has plainly revealed what is required to be a Christian. Going to church does not make a person a Christian. Neither does going to Sunday school, singing in the choir, or tithing. Water baptism alone does not make anyone a Christian. To be a Christian, a person must be born again. To be born again a person must feel enough conviction over their sins that they confess their sins and seek forgiveness from God. They must recognize that Christ died in their place because of their sins and ask Jesus to come into their life and save them. Apart from this, a person is not a Christian. Regardless of what they believe, they have not followed Gods plan of salvation.