Is the 'Prosperity Gospel' Biblical or just plain greed?

[Multicolored Lemur]

it seems that the pastor's success far outweighs anyone else

Yeah, clearly seems a rip-off that this top person is making all this money.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I'm shocked here that it seems most sources on the internet calls the prosperity gospel a false doctrine, but then they don't address the Scriptural-based references that prosperity gospel teachers tend to use (e.g. Malachi 3:8-10, 1 Corinth 9:6-8). If you only select the verses that support your side, while ignoring the verses that don't, then that is not a good position at all. I mean, what if there's just a contradiction, or the other side can just simply ignore your verses since you ignore theirs, etc.

Even one of my go-to sites fails to address some of the verses that the prosperity gospel crow relies on...

It’s true that God wants His children to be prosperous, but in what ways? The popular understanding of prosperity reaches beyond what the Bible teaches. Prosperity teachers focus primarily on the here and now, seeking wealth as “proof” of God’s blessing. They attach a couple of out-of-context Bible verses to their hype and call it biblical teaching. However, God’s desire for us to prosper may not include material wealth at all. First Timothy 6:9 warns, “Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.” There are different types of prosperity, of which material or financial prosperity is only one. Other types of prosperity may be far more important in God’s eyes.

Many times, God cannot trust us with material prosperity because we would make an idol out of it. Jesus said, “How difficult it is for the rich to inherit the kingdom of God” (Luke 18:24). Wealth quickly takes hold of us and promises a security it cannot deliver. Prosperity can become a substitute for the real goal of pursuing God and His righteousness (see Matthew 6:33). As a good Father, God may withhold what we clamor for, choosing instead to give us what we truly need. He has our eternal benefit in mind, not our short-term comfort (Luke 12:33–34).

Source: https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-prosperity.html

Hmmm, no mention of Malachi nor the 1 Corinthians 9:6-9 reference I posted earlier.

For now, I'm leaning towards the view that God can bless Christians to the point of them becoming rich, but a Christian should not be get greedy either or become too materialistic. This view sorta factors in both sides.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Yeah, clearly seems a rip-off that this top person is making all this money.

Yeah, you have to question when does a preacher ever gives his offering? And if he did, how much would it be

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I think I'm liking my position more and more because it seems to hold water against some of the passages that those against the prosperity gospel would use. Here again is my position which I stated in my previous post.

For now, I'm leaning towards the view that God can bless Christians to the point of them becoming rich, but a Christian should not be get greedy either or become too materialistic. This view sorta factors in both sides.

The implications of my view would mean that it is not a sin to be rich. Also, someone can be rich would being a lover of money or without chasing after riches or becoming materialistic.


Passages that the anti-prosperity crowd use:
1 Timothy 6:7-10

7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Here I don't see that this conflicts with a position like mine. This passage is not saying that a Christian can't be rich but rather that they should not chase after that lifestyle. Otherwise, someone can become rich as a result of working hard, saving up, making good investments, and being rich was just incidental to all of that work.

Also, there is some degree of difference between wanting to live well (having all bills paid off, seeing a cool car you want, etc) vs. wanting to live lavishly. Plenty of gray areas there. (wish I could make a gray colored smiley)..

1 Timothy 3:1-3 (only quoted part of vs 2)

1 ...Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach,...
3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money

My response again would be that a Christian can be rich without being a lover of money. Also, if one necessarily followed from the other, then why did God ever make promises of blessings to Abraham and many in the OT? If it's wrong now then why wasn't it wrong back then?

Luke 12:15

15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

This is a tougher one because of the last part of the sentence. It seems to equate having an abundance of possessions with greed. But i see that the full context was about "sharing" since the discussion that Jesus is involved in here starts with that issue in Luke 12:13. Jesus then goes on to give a parable of the rich fool...

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

In my view, the point of the parable is not to say that having an abundance is wrong, because crops being ready to harvest and how much are ready is in part a natural event. All the crops could be easily destroyed. The issue here is how the rich man handled the abundant harvest. His only focus was on himself as opposed to also considering giving to others.


If the anti-prosperity crowd are trying to paint an image that all Christians should be poor (or can't be rich) and that they have to always give to the poor, then a Christian would never have anything for himself. If we follow that logic, then why not also give your clothes, then what are you left wearing? Even Jesus had a treasurer that held money (John 12:4-6) which means not all of the money was given away to the poor. But at the same time, I disagree with the push by some in the prosperity gospel camp to overemphasize blessings and riches, because that would lead many to become materialistic.

What do you guys think? Feel free to disagree or agree or offer your own alternative explanations!

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Yeah, you have to question when does a preacher ever gives his offering? And if he did, how much would it be

I imagine the goal is a 10% tithe just like other Christians.

But I also imagine that goal runs smack dab into reality.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I imagine the goal is a 10% tithe just like other Christians.

But I also imagine that goal runs smack dab into reality.

Yeah. I understand the pastor has to pay the bills of the Church building, but you gotta wonder when they are making way more than their necessary expenses. If a pastor has 2 private jets and all of his kids are driving fancy cars, I'd question that.