Is the 'Prosperity Gospel' Biblical or just plain greed?

[AgnosticBoy]

Some Christians may not have heard of the label 'prosperity gospel' but I'm willing to bet that they have encountered the message behind it. To get an idea of the prosperity gospel in action, just watch the first few minutes of this video...

And here's one source that defines 'prosperity gospel'

An aberrant theology that teaches God rewards faith—and hefty tithing—with financial blessings, the prosperity gospel was closely associated with prominent 1980s televangelists Jimmy Swaggart and Jim and Tammy Bakker, and is part and parcel of many of today’s charismatic movements in the Global South.

Source: Christianity Today

One common characteristic of prosperity gospel preachers is that they tend to be rich and they are not shy to ask their congregations to give money, even large sums at times. Let's take Joel Osteen wealth as an example. He's a popular pastor based in Houston. According to one source, his net worth is over $100 million. He also owns a $10.5 million dollar house. The source says that pastor Osteen does not use his Church money as part of his salary since 2005, but i question if he had already made plenty of money by 2005. According to one source, pastor Kenneth Copeland net worth is $300 million. He also has a mansion and flies around the world in a private jet. I don't think it's hard to see why these preachers and their prosperity gospel would get a bad rap. It seems like it's a bunch of rich guys trying to get poor people to finance their lavish lifestyle.

*I tried to find some positive or neutral description for prosperity gospel but the descriptions were overwhelmingly negative, just like the video I posted earlier.

For Debate:
1. Is the prosperity gospel biblical?
2. Is it okay for a pastor to get rich off of his or her Church?

 

[bbyrd009]

They do seem a long way off from Paul’s having nothing, yet having everything…

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

1. Is the prosperity gospel biblical?

Money may not be biblical. But physical healing is. When I re-read the Gospel of Mark as an adult and a non-believer, I was shocked at how many physical healings and driving off of demons were talked about.

When you tell a parent that their seriously ill child can be healed if only they have enough faith— Wow, I think you are running a real number on the parent.

The parents are probably praying more than the rest of us can possibly imagine [or they’ve temporarily given up not understanding why God would allow this to happen to their child. In which case, fellow church members can help the parents by letting them know in a low-key way that they are keeping the child in their prayers.]

And if the child doesn’t make it despite the best efforts of medical professionals, a sincere hug and a “I don’t know” in response to a question of why, is much better than laying a bunch of philosophy on the parents.

============

And in my view, this whole healing business is a good reason to NOT take the Bible as being authoritative.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

1. Is the prosperity gospel biblical?

If we consider this part mentioned in the OP.."An aberrant theology that teaches God rewards faith—and hefty tithing—with financial blessings,", then in my research I've run across 2 good passages that support the prosperity gospel:

For instance, there's Malachi 3:8-10 (NIV)

8 “Will a mere mortal rob God? Yet you rob me.

“But you ask, ‘How are we robbing you?’

“In tithes and offerings. 9 You are under a curse—your whole nation—because you are robbing me. 10 Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this,” says the Lord Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it.

AND

2 Corinthians 9:6-8

6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to bless you abundantly, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work.

But then there are passages like these that seems to go against the prosperity gospel:
1 Timothy 6:7-10

7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

1 Timothy 3:1-3 (only quoted part of vs 2)

1 ...Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach,...
3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money

AND
Luke 12:15

15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”

Given all of this information, I am now undecided on what position to take regarding the Bible's message.

I will say that for this system to work, I would expect all or most in the Church to prosper, but it seems that the pastor's success far outweighs anyone else. And we should expect it to if he or she is receiving all of the funds. It doesn't take God to get rich off of a congregation that are paying you weekly offerings, esp. when it involves large sums of money.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Money may not be biblical. But physical healing is. When I re-read the Gospel of Mark as an adult and a non-believer, I was shocked at how many physical healings and driving off of demons were talked about.

When you tell a parent that their seriously ill child can be healed if only they have enough faith— Wow, I think you are running a real number on the parent.

The parents are probably praying more than the rest of us can possibly imagine [or they’ve temporarily given up not understanding why God would allow this to happen to their child. In which case, fellow church members can help the parents by letting them know in a low-key way that they are keeping the child in their prayers.]

And if the child doesn’t make it despite the best efforts of medical professionals, a sincere hug and a “I don’t know” in response to a question of why, is much better than laying a bunch of philosophy on the parents.

============

And in my view, this whole healing business is a good reason to NOT take the Bible as being authoritative.

Being given good health is part of the prosperity gospel but I was mostly focused on the financial blessings part for this thread. About the promising good health though, the miracles in your scenario shouldn't even come up since that person should've been in good health anyways.

 

[bbyrd009]

Who might you be more likely to “save” in their time of need; a judgemental know-it-all who is “successful“ by the world’s standards, but not generous, even prolly miserly, or a little kid type person, who doesnt judge and is not rich/well-off bc they give to anyone in need?

 

[bbyrd009]

Given all of this information, I am now undecided on what position to take regarding the Bible's message.

I will say that for this system to work, I would expect all or most in the Church to prosper, but it seems that the pastor's success far outweighs anyone else. And we should expect it to if he or she is receiving all of the funds. It doesn't take God to get rich off of a congregation that are paying you weekly offerings, esp. when it involves large sums of money.

well im here to tell you, Jose’ Mujica is considered a god in Uruguay, and he could cold-call me for my whole bank account, no questions asked lol

 

[bbyrd009]

And in my view, this whole healing business is a good reason to NOT take the Bible as being authoritative.

ok, but fwiw imo there is a way to read those that makes practical sense, and the Bible itself testifies to “hiding wisdom from the wise.” (in their own eyes) so beware, at least. I mean go with that if you like, from what im reading God does not care even a little about what you or anyone believes, and it is those who do the will of God that are considered the sons of God, and Jesus gave the highest praise to the atheist (samaritan) and the pagan (centurion)—and see how those examples are right there in the open, yet no one ever makes that connection?

so while imo considering the Bible as not authoritative may not see you “lost,” you might be denying yourself an invaluable resource. When you start reading with one eye (right eye removed) things just change, ok. But really “do into others as you would have them do to you” is not that much of a puzzle. The rest, maybe, lol

 

[bbyrd009]

i tell you that Paul writes some of the most artful misdirection in all of literature, and he is misquoted by millions of unsuspecting believers every day. I srsly doubt that any of Paul8s most misquoted lines were written by one person, as they are worded so precisely that it surely took a fair-sized group of thinkers a fair amount of time to get just so.

Ever heard “to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord?” Not in there, not one single time
”All sins require blood?” nowhere to be found
etc

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Being given good health is part of the prosperity gospel but I was mostly focused on the financial blessings part for this thread.

I think you’re right. These separate topics would be best in separate threads.

Actually, about a year ago, I have a thread on churches over-promising healing.