Featured Does the Old Testament make any reference to the Trinity?

[Alter2Ego]

No, you didn't. The scriptures you quoted actually debunk Christendom's Trinity when the context is paid attention to. It is the context that gives the correct understanding of what is being stated.

Hahaha...You cannot comprehend the Trinity because you cannot come to grips with the divinity of Jesus Christ. Your claim that Jesus was an angel is heresy and sounds very much like the Watch Tower Society doctrine. Are you a Jehovah Witness?

Scooter:

I didn't say it. The Bible did. So you don't have a leg to stand on with your attempt at dismissing me as a heretic. Why so? Because scripture says Jesus was the first angel created by Jehovah the Father.

"The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." (Colossians 1:15 -- International Standard Version)

Colossians 1 ISV

Now, go ahead with your name calling and let's see how you will attempt to talk your way around Colossians 1:15.


Ready, set, go!

 

[Alter2Ego]

Scooter, the laugh is on you

Hahaha…you did not answer my question…Are you a Jehovah Witness? If not, then what is your religious persuasion? Don’t be shy now.

Read between the lines.

Meanwhile, suppose you address the scripture I presented in my most recent posts. Or could it be that you are now playing the role of Artful Dodger?

 

[Scooter]

let's see how you will attempt to talk your way around Colossians 1:15.

Very simple…Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. You stress context, so look at the context: Col.1:13-15 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus shed His blood, died and rose again as the firstborn of the resurrected.

Read between the lines.

Apparently you are ashamed of your religious associations. Or perhaps you have no religious affiliation and are just winging it. Either way, your views are heresy and cult-like.

 

[Alter2Ego]

let's see how you will attempt to talk your way around Colossians 1:15.

Very simple…Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. You stress context, so look at the context: Col.1:13-15 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus shed His blood, died and rose again as the firstborn of the resurrected.

Scooter:

Colossians 1:15 says in plain language that Jesus is a created being by describing him as "firstborn of all creation"--meaning he did not always exist. The trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed has been debunked by that single verse of scripture. Of course there are many other places throughout the Bible that crush the false Trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed.

In my next post, I will deal with your attempt at dodging the portion at Colossians 1:15 that says Jesus was "born," by you trying to change the discussion into Jesus' death.

 

[Scooter]

Scooter:

Colossians 1:15 says in plain language that Jesus is a created being by describing him as "firstborn of all creation"--meaning he did not always exist. The trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed has been debunked by that single verse of scripture. Of course there are many other places throughout the Bible that crush the false Trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed.

In my next post, I will deal with your attempt at dodging the portion at Colossians 1:15 that says Jesus was "born," by you trying to change the discussion into Jesus' death.

Hahaha…I directly addressed Col.1:15. You just didn’t like my response. Now, I would like for you to answer my question about your religious affiliation. Are you a Jehovah Witness, or an unaffiliated religious person? The reason I ask is because it would help me understand where you’re coming from. Do you have support for your beliefs or are you just making up stuff on your own?

 

[Alter2Ego]

let's see how you will attempt to talk your way around Colossians 1:15.

Very simple…Jesus is the firstborn from the dead. You stress context, so look at the context: Col.1:13-15 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus shed His blood, died and rose again as the firstborn of the resurrected.

Scooter:

You shot yourself in the foot when you quoted Colossians 1:13-14. Look at the words that I enlarged and bolded in red within your above post. Do you realize the significance of those words?

Those words provide confirmation that Jesus is not God in the flesh because they're telling us Jesus died. Scripture says God cannot die and cannot be seen by humans.


"{13} And I charge you before God, who gives life to all, and before Christ Jesus, who gave a good testimony before Pontius Pilate, {14} that you obey this command without wavering. Then no one can find fault with you from now until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. {15} For, At just the right time Christ will be revealed from heaven by the blessed and only almighty God, the King of all kings and Lord of all lords. {16} He alone can never die, and he lives in light so brilliant that no human can approach him. No human eye has ever seen him, nor ever will. All honor and power to him forever! Amen." (1 Timothy 6:13-16 -- New Living Translation)

1 Timothy 6 NLT

1. Hundreds of people saw Jesus while he was on earth.
2. Jesus literally died.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Scooter:

Colossians 1:15 says in plain language that Jesus is a created being by describing him as "firstborn of all creation"--meaning he did not always exist. The trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed has been debunked by that single verse of scripture. Of course there are many other places throughout the Bible that crush the false Trinitarian claim that Jesus has always existed.

Hahaha…I directly addressed Col.1:15. You just didn’t like my response. Now, I would like for you to answer my question about your religious affiliation. Are you a Jehovah Witness, or an unaffiliated religious person? The reason I ask is because it would help me understand where you’re coming from. Do you have support for your beliefs or are you just making up stuff on your own?

Correction. You dodged the issue.

The verse clearly says Jesus is the firstBORN of all CREATION. Jesus is a created being. Colossians 1:15 says he is among other created beings but that he was the first among them all.

 

[Alter2Ego]

Scooter:

In my next post, I will deal with your attempt at dodging the portion at Colossians 1:15 that says Jesus was "born," by you trying to change the discussion into Jesus' death.

Hahaha…I directly addressed Col.1:15. You just didn’t like my response. Now, I would like for you to answer my question about your religious affiliation. Are you a Jehovah Witness, or an unaffiliated religious person? The reason I ask is because it would help me understand where you’re coming from. Do you have support for your beliefs or are you just making up stuff on your own?

Trying to change the goal post to religious affiliation is what desperate people do when they realize they are being outdone by scripture. Keep asking. And then hold your breath waiting for the answer.

Ready, set, go!

 

[Scooter]

Trying to change the goal post to religious affiliation is what desperate people do when they realize they are being outdone by scripture

Sigh…I have shown you scripture that proves the Trinity from both the OT and NT. You have not offered one shred of evidence to refute the scriptures I provided. All you’ve done is stomp your feet and deny the evidence provided. Every time I offer proof, you dismiss it without anything to support your argument. You can’t offer any doctrinal support for your claims. You cannot present any scholar that holds your beliefs. There is no mainline Christian denomination that supports your position. Since you cannot offer any solid support, I am left to conclude your argument is simply made up by man and no longer worth the effort to address. I assume you will take a victory lap and declare yourself the winner. The truth is I am simply weary of your drivel.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

AgnosticBoy:

You are repeating yourself after I already responded to that false claim with scripture. I quoted scripture showing there were millions of spirit sons/angels in existence at Genesis 1:26 when Jehovah God used the word "us" as in "Let us make man in our image...."

At this point, I am preparing to disappear from this thread. There's nothing left here for me to debate when people refuse to be corrected by scripture.

Unless you and Scooter can come up with arguments that can overcome the scriptures I already presented, as opposed to both of you regurgitating the same nonsense to make yourselves happy, I will disappear from this thread.

I've already acknowledged that angels existed before Earth's creation. Here's from one of my previous posts:

God may've been speaking to angels, but who was the one saying they would create?

God could've been communicating with angels or amongst themselves (them = 3 beings that make up the Godhead), or even all of the above. Your explanations don't show why it couldn't be the latter 2 options.

If we go with your scenario that God was speaking to angels (and not God speaking amongst the 3 beings that make up the Trinity), you still would need to explain who is the "our" image. In other words, are we created in the image of God and all the angels? Or are we created just in the image of God, and if just God, why does it say "our" (plural) image IF God is just one being?

I think the following is also good evidence for my position:
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.