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Trying to change the goal post to religious affiliation is what desperate people do when they realize they are being outdone by scripture
Sigh…I have shown you scripture that proves the Trinity from both the OT and NT. You have not offered one shred of evidence to refute the scriptures I provided. All you’ve done is stomp your feet and deny the evidence provided. Every time I offer proof, you dismiss it without anything to support your argument. You can’t offer any doctrinal support for your claims. You cannot present any scholar that holds your beliefs. There is no mainline Christian denomination that supports your position. Since you cannot offer any solid support, I am left to conclude your argument is simply made up by man and no longer worth the effort to address. I assume you will take a victory lap and declare yourself the winner. The truth is I am simply weary of your drivel.

No, you have not, Scooter. I will remind you of the scriptures you've presented thus far and follow each one with a question or questions.

POST #13:
I would disagree with you. At the baptism of Jesus, all three persons of the trinity were present: Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The claim by Trinitarians is that the mere presence of three entities at the same time equates to the three being the same god. That's like claiming a human father and his son, along with something that belongs to the human father means all three are the same person if all three were present at the same time. Keep that comparison in mind as you analyze Matthew 3:16-17, which you quoted above, by answering the following direct questions. Your answers must be either TRUE or FALSE. Any other types of answers will indicate you are dodging.

QUESTION #1 to SCOOTER: According to Matthew 3:16-17, the three entities present were (1) Jesus the son; (2) the Spirit of God; and (3) God the Father whose voice came from heaven and said: "This is my beloved Son...." TRUE or FALSE?

QUESTION #2 to SCOOTER: Matthew 3:16 identifies the owner of the holy spirit as God the Father. TRUE or FALSE?


I would disagree with you. At the baptism of Jesus, all three persons of the trinity were present: Matthew 3:16-17 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

QUESTION #3 to SCOOTER: According to Matthew 3:17, God the Father said he is "well pleased" with Jesus the son. TRUE or FALSE?


QUESTION #4 to SCOOTER: Since the Trinitarian philosophy is that the Heavenly Father and Jesus the son are the same god, then according to Matthew 3:17, when the Father said he is "well pleased" with Jesus the son, that would amount to God saying he's pleased with himself. TRUE or FALSE?
 
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The concept of the trinity is nowhere to be found in God's inspired word the Bible. The dogma was formulated 300 years after the Bible was written. The formulation was refined under two Roman emperors with the urging of Catholic bishops.
I would disagree with you. . . .
Notice also these verses: 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Scooter:

The words at 1 John 5:7 that I bolded in red are fabrications found only in the King James Bible. Those extra words are referred to as the Comma Johanneum. Thousands of existing Trinitarian Bibles have avoided those words because they do not appear in the oldest known manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures and did not show up until the late 4th century C.E. Below are quotations from two sources that state that fact.


"1 John 5:7 – Interpolation

1 John 5:7—"RSV scholars say that this verse is an interpolation, a concoction, a fabrication."


Among the thousands of careful English translations available, the King James translation is the only one which includes this ending to 1 John 5:7—"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

It is abundantly clear that the King James translation made a serious mistake here, for this passage is found in no original Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century. Its inclusion probably resulted from a scribe inadvertently incorporating a marginal comment (gloss) into the text as he copied the manuscript we find a similar incorporation in the ancient Samarkand Qur'ān :"




"The Enigmatic Interpolation in 1 John 5:7-8: A Scholarly Examination​

Contemporary scholars widely acknowledge the inauthentic nature of a specific passage in 1 John 5:7-8, which has been excluded from numerous Bible translations such as the American Standard Version, An American Translation, English Revised Version, Moffatt, New English Bible, Phillips, Rotherham, Revised Standard Version, Schonfield, Wade, Wand, Weymouth, and others (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005). ). This contentious passage, following the phrase “For there are three witness bearers,” reads: “in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [Verse 8] And there are three witness bearers on earth.”

. . . .

"The spurious passage in question, often referred to as the Comma Johanneum, first emerged in the Latin Vulgate, a translation of the Bible in the late fourth century (Kelly, 1995). The interpolation was likely introduced to bolster the doctrine of the Trinity, a core Christian belief that posits the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit as one divine entity. However, the Comma Johanneum is notably absent from the earliest Greek manuscripts, as well as from the works of early Greek Church Fathers (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005).

. . . .

"Through rigorous examination of ancient manuscripts and translations, as well as comparisons with the writings of early Church Fathers, textual criticism has demonstrated that the Comma Johanneum is a later interpolation and not an authentic component of the original biblical text (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005). This has led to its exclusion from many modern Bible translations, reflecting a commitment to accurately represent the inspired Word of God."



QUESTION #5 to SCOOTER: According to the two independent sources quoted above, the Comma Johanneum does not belong in the Bible because it is nowhere to be found in the earliest existing manuscripts of the original biblical text. TRUE or FALSE?
 
The concept of the trinity is nowhere to be found in God's inspired word the Bible. The dogma was formulated 300 years after the Bible was written. The formulation was refined under two Roman emperors with the urging of Catholic bishops.
I would disagree with you. . . .

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen...

I believe there is ample evidence to support the idea of a triune God. Welcome to the forum Alter!

You are presenting the same argument that you presented when you used the occasion of Jesus' baptism at Matthew 3:16-17.


QUESTION #6 to SCOOTER: The presence of your father, you, and something owned by your father does not equate to all three of you being the same human being. TRUE or FALSE?


That's the last of the scriptures that you presented at Post 13. I will address another set of your "trinity" scriptures, from another of your posts, after I see how you respond to the 6 questions I presented above.
 
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The concept of the trinity is nowhere to be found in God's inspired word the Bible. The dogma was formulated 300 years after the Bible was written. The formulation was refined under two Roman emperors with the urging of Catholic bishops.
I would disagree with you. . . .
Notice also these verses: 1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Scooter:

The words at 1 John 5:7 that I bolded in red are fabrications found only in the King James Bible. Those extra words are referred to as the Comma Johanneum. Thousands of existing Trinitarian Bibles have avoided those words because they do not appear in the oldest known manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures and did not show up until the late 4th century C.E. Below are quotations from two sources that state that fact.


"1 John 5:7 – Interpolation

1 John 5:7—"RSV scholars say that this verse is an interpolation, a concoction, a fabrication."


Among the thousands of careful English translations available, the King James translation is the only one which includes this ending to 1 John 5:7—"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

It is abundantly clear that the King James translation made a serious mistake here, for this passage is found in no original Greek manuscript before the sixteenth century. Its inclusion probably resulted from a scribe inadvertently incorporating a marginal comment (gloss) into the text as he copied the manuscript we find a similar incorporation in the ancient Samarkand Qur'ān :"




"The Enigmatic Interpolation in 1 John 5:7-8: A Scholarly Examination​

Contemporary scholars widely acknowledge the inauthentic nature of a specific passage in 1 John 5:7-8, which has been excluded from numerous Bible translations such as the American Standard Version, An American Translation, English Revised Version, Moffatt, New English Bible, Phillips, Rotherham, Revised Standard Version, Schonfield, Wade, Wand, Weymouth, and others (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005). ). This contentious passage, following the phrase “For there are three witness bearers,” reads: “in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. [Verse 8] And there are three witness bearers on earth.”

. . . .

"The spurious passage in question, often referred to as the Comma Johanneum, first emerged in the Latin Vulgate, a translation of the Bible in the late fourth century (Kelly, 1995). The interpolation was likely introduced to bolster the doctrine of the Trinity, a core Christian belief that posits the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit as one divine entity. However, the Comma Johanneum is notably absent from the earliest Greek manuscripts, as well as from the works of early Greek Church Fathers (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005).

. . . .

"Through rigorous examination of ancient manuscripts and translations, as well as comparisons with the writings of early Church Fathers, textual criticism has demonstrated that the Comma Johanneum is a later interpolation and not an authentic component of the original biblical text (Metzger & Ehrman, 2005). This has led to its exclusion from many modern Bible translations, reflecting a commitment to accurately represent the inspired Word of God."



QUESTION #5 to SCOOTER: According to the two independent sources quoted above, the Comma Johanneum does not belong in the Bible because it is nowhere to be found in the earliest existing manuscripts of the original biblical text. TRUE or FALSE?
😆 🤣
 
The concept of the trinity is nowhere to be found in God's inspired word the Bible. The dogma was formulated 300 years after the Bible was written. The formulation was refined under two Roman emperors with the urging of Catholic bishops.
I would disagree with you. . . .

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

You are presenting the same argument that you presented when you used the occasion of Jesus' baptism at Matthew 3:16-17.


QUESTION #6 to SCOOTER: The presence of your father, you, and something owned by your father does not equate to all three of you being the same human being. TRUE or FALSE?
😂 😝
 
That's the last of the scriptures that you presented at Post 13. I will address another set of your "trinity" scriptures, from another of your posts, after I see how you respond to the 6 questions I presented above.
Why would I waste time answering your questions when you refuse to answer mine? I’ve asked you numerous times what your religious affiliation is only to have been ignored. I’ve answered your questions in the past but you have not responded to mine. I will not expend any energy to answer your questions until you answer mine.
 
AgnosticBoy: You are repeating yourself after I already responded to that false claim with scripture. I quoted scripture showing there were millions of spirit sons/angels in existence at Genesis 1:26 when Jehovah God used the word "us" as in "Let us make man in our image...."
If we go with your scenario that God was speaking to angels (and not God speaking amongst the 3 beings that make up the Trinity), you still would need to explain who is the "our" image. In other words, are we created in the image of God and all the angels? Or are we created just in the image of God, and if just God, why does it say "our" (plural) image IF God is just one being?

I think the following is also good evidence for my position:
Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

I responded to that question twice in this thread already. You and Scooter have chosen to ignore that reply because it doesn't line up with what you've both chosen to believe. God is a spirit. Angels are also spirits. Humans are flesh and blood. So your argument that humans are literally created in God's image doesn't fly.

Below is my explanation of who was being referred to when God said: "Let us make man in our image. . ." at Genesis 1:26, from two different posts within this thread. Focus on the words enlarged and bolded in blue.


POST 21

Gen.1: 26 At creation, God spoke in the plural sense.
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness
Genesis 1:26 doesn't do a thing for your trinitarian argument, Scooter, because at that point, there were millions of angels in existence. Jehovah God happened to be speaking to one of them. The same one that came to earth and given the name Jesus.


POST 52
Genesis 1:26 is clearly not literal since the Bible makes it clear that God is a spirit and humans are flesh and blood.
I don't agree with your reasoning. Just because something involves a spirit doesn't make it non-literal. To the Bible writers, spirits really do exist, and there are many of them. When Genesis 1:26 says "us", that just means that there's more than one spirit that's being referred to.
Genesis 1:26 used the term "us" because Almighty God was accompanied by millions of angelic sons. He was speaking to the special angel that came to be known as Jesus Christ. I've stated that previously in this thread, so I can't imagine what you hope to gain by repeating the same failed argument, AgnosticBoy.

So, when Jehovah God said to the "firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15), that is, the very first angel that he created (prior to that special angel's spirit life being transferred into the virgin named Mary and given the name Jesus), Almighty God the Father was not literally going to make humans in his spirit image. He made humans in his image by endowing them with his four outstanding attributes: LOVE, JUSTICE, WISDOM, and POWER. Humans are the only creatures that have those four attributes.
 
That's the last of the scriptures that you presented at Post 13. I will address another set of your "trinity" scriptures, from another of your posts, after I see how you respond to the 6 questions I presented above.
Why would I waste time answering your questions when you refuse to answer mine? I’ve asked you numerous times what your religious affiliation is only to have been ignored. I’ve answered your questions in the past but you have not responded to mine. I will not expend any energy to answer your questions until you answer mine.

Your question about my religious affiliation has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, has nothing to do with the scriptures that I presented (since I quoted from several different Trinitarian Bibles), and will not affect your answers to the six YES or NO questions that I asked you because I used scripture and independent sources and provided you with the weblinks to those sources.

What you're doing right now is playing the role of Artful Dodger, a ploy that dishonest people use so that they can weasel out of answering direct questions. You realize that the correct answers to my questions will destroy your fairytale about God being a trinity. In other words, you are not interested in being corrected by scripture.

Since you don't intend to stick to the topic of this thread and are now putting on the pretense that my religious affiliation will somehow change the YES or NO answers to my six questions, our conversation is over--permanently. You are now being added to my "Ignore List." That's where I routinely send people who refuse to be corrected by scripture, at the dozens of websites where I've debated over the past 10 years.

At this point, the only persons on this website whom I will continue debating on this topic will be AgnosticBoy or someone else who doesn't use the screen name Scooter. If AgnosticBoy behaves like you are behaving, it would be impossible for me to add him/her to Ignore since he/she is the administrator. In that case, I will simply disappear from this thread.
 
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You are now being added to my "Ignore List." That's where I routinely send people who refuse to be corrected by scripture, at the dozens of websites where I've debated over the past 10 years.

At this point, the only persons on this website whom I will continue debating on this topic will be AgnosticBoy or someone else who doesn't use the screen name Scooter.
Hahaha…your position is indefensible and considered heresy by traditional Christian doctrine. Your cultish beliefs have been exposed and you refuse to acknowledge your associations. Block me if you desire. Your erroneous beliefs are revealed.
 
QUESTION #5 to SCOOTER: According to the two independent sources quoted above, the Comma Johanneum does not belong in the Bible because it is nowhere to be found in the earliest existing manuscripts of the original biblical text. TRUE or FALSE?
😆 🤣

QUESTION #6 to SCOOTER: The presence of your father, you, and something owned by your father does not equate to all three of you being the same human being. TRUE or FALSE?
😂 😝

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