Featured Where is Heaven and Hell located?

[bbyrd009]

Wherever do you get these ideas?

From decades of studying the Bible under sound theologians such as Matthew Henry, Matthew Poole, J.Vernon McGee, Warren Weirsbe, John Gill, Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, and Oliver Greene.

yet you have never heard of the Cult of Sol Invictus? You are not even qualified to ask questions yet, Scooter

There is no punishment in Hades’ mythology Scooter, nor in the Jewish Sheol

Wrong: Luke 16:23-24 And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

no, not wrong, you are just deceived by a vision that is not witnessed, as your calling hades hel even demonstrates.

Hades is a Greek god whose mythology contains no punishment, and you saying that that is wrong does not mean anything, but that you refuse to see

not to mention that there is no “everyone in hell will be cast into the lake”

Wrong again: Revelation 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

this amounts to the same misQuoting of Scripture that you are already shown to be guilty of, Scooter; you have just chosen to Quote a bad translation of the Bible, as about thirty seconds with a Greek lexicon would illuminate, as im pretty sure you already know

you know you will be held to account for altering the Bible right?

Again, you are wrong. I have not altered a single word from the Scriptures.

you alter the Bible every time you substitute Hel for Hades or Gehenna, as has already been plainly demonstrated, so again you saying i am wrong does not make it true

Do you not understand what not being found in the book of life means? If so, then i dont get why you are deliberately excluding yourself, Scooter. Wouldnt it be better to maybe qualify your statements a little, allow for the possibility that you might be a little off?

I am very well aware of what it means to not be found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The question is, do you? As an overcomer in Christ Jesus, my name will remain in the His Book of Life: Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

goodbye Scooter

 

[Scooter]

Scooter, im aware that i dinged your ego when you were found out—as can easily enough be seen on this page—but i have already apologized and asked your forgiveness. Well knowing that that would be in vain. And just so you know, im ok with your refusal to engage on the issues, and your substituted prevarications and misdirections that im sure in your mind serve as responses, but hopefully you dimly perceive that i will continue to call you out on those—which you can of course ask for specifics but i already know you wont—simply to keep the page from becoming complete garbage

Oh my ego was not hurt at all, because I was right in everything I offered. You may have attempted to call me out, but all you did was throw out childish insults. The truth is I am the one who has exposed your ignorance of Biblical doctrines.

yet you have never heard of the Cult of Sol Invictus? You are not even qualified to ask questions yet, Scooter

I’ve never claimed to be an expert on cults. If this is your choice of study, and you consider yourself an expert in this field then I congratulate you. My focus has always been on the Bible. So if I ever make false claims about your cult, feel free to call me out. And in turn I will expose your misinformation about the Bible.

Now, if you wish to discuss the location of Heaven, Paradise, Hell, Hades or Sheol then I’m game. If all you want to do is disparage me and/or my beliefs, then you’ll do so by yourself.

BTW, I’m still waiting for you to show me where I slandered someone on this forum.

 

[Scooter]

Scooter, im aware that i dinged your ego when you were found out—as can easily enough be seen on this page—

I’m not sure you comprehend the principles of debate. You see, just giving your opinion does not count as offering evidence. When I state my position, I provide supporting evidence from the Bible to substantiate my position. All you can offer are statements that my beliefs are wrong, but you never give any evidence to prove your point. So simply saying “False” does not disprove my claim. If my belief concerning Sheol/Hades is incorrect then give some supporting evidence.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

BTW, I’m still waiting for you to show me where I slandered someone on this forum.

Scooter, im aware that i dinged your ego when you were found out

Moderator Comment:
Another friendly reminder... Please stop with the negative personal comments towards each other. Don't comment on rule violations or accuse anyone of slander but simply report it.

The topic here is about the location of Heaven and Hell - whether it is on Earth or in a spiritual realm, etc. Comments not directly related to that are off topic.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Where I disagree with your view is on equating Hell with Sheol and Hades. I view Sheol and Hades as being a place for all of the dead, and I say this because even the righteous are said to be in those places like the Psalmist in Psalm 88:12. Wasn't Abraham in Hades?

Yes and No. Prior to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, all souls went to Sheol/Hades. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus revealed Lazarus on one side, called Abraham's Bosom, while the rich man was on the other side in torment. While on the cross, one thief asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom. Jesus told him that he would be with Him in Paradise that very day. He did not say they would be in Heaven, but Paradise. The Bible tells us what happened when Jesus died and entered Sheol/Hades. Notice 1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Now look at Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) So based on these verses we see at Jesus' death, His spirit entered Sheol/Hades and preached the Gospel to those in Abraham's bosom. Then when He ascended to Heaven, He took those spirits with Him. We are now taught that when believers die, our spirits go to God's presence in Heaven: 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Non-believers still go to Sheol/Hades until the end time when they will be brought up to stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement. Look at Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Notice death and Hell (Hades) gave up the dead and then both death and Hades will be cast in the Lake of Fire along with all non-believers.

Thank you for showing Sheol/Hades being a temporary holding place for the dead. Hopefully I have shed some light on the current purpose of Sheol/Hades.

Very good explanation! You quoted some good passages that are key to understanding the Christian view on the afterlife.

I want to hone in on the location aspect. For instance "sheol" or the realm of the dead in the OT is described as being at the lowest parts of the Earth. This passage seems to say just as much:

Deuteronomy 32:22
22 For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

Job 26:5
5 “The dead are in deep anguish, those beneath the waters and all that live in them.

If Sheol= Hell, which is Scooter's view, then Hell is on Earth. I'm not completely sold on that but I'm leaning there.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.

[emphasis added]

This is an excellent verse because it brings up so many different terms that I'm looking to understand if Hell is equivalent to Sheol/Hades. That's key here for me to say that Hell is on Earth.

Some obvious issues I had is that I thought Hell was the same as the Lake of fire. The passages you brought up talks about them as separate. BUt then also, the NIV and NASB don't use the word "Hell" in those passages but instead use "Hades". Either way, that doens't mean Hell and Hades/Sheol aren't equivalent. Thinking about it now, wouldn't make sense to say that Hell and Hades were different unless one involves something different than the other, like Hell being a place of torment which i thought was part of the Lake of Fire.

Still digesting this before drawing any conclusions. There's just a lot of factors to consider and I also have to shed a lot of incorrect old beliefs.

 

[Scooter]

You know I’m a KJV man, but here is one example of the translators missing the target. Had they called Sheol and Hades by these names instead of Hell, it would have eliminated some confusion. As the Revelation verses explain, Hades and those contained therein will be cast into the Lake of Fire in the end.

 

[Scooter]

I want to hone in on the location aspect. For instance "sheol" or the realm of the dead in the OT is described as being at the lowest parts of the Earth. This passage seems to say just as much:

The NT passage from Ephesians 4 also describe Jesus as descending to the lower part of the earth…Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I guess I should've started by answering question #2 from the Opening post but luckily the conversation with Scooter and bbyrd has naturally led into that.

2. As an extra to help clarify, what is the difference between Hell and Hades and Heaven and Paradise?

Here's where I'm at now. My understanding is that Sheol (and NT equivalent Hades) is some underworld place that the dead go to. I could challenge this view by simply asking for evidence since such a world could be investigated by having scientists dig deep into the Earth. But this is the theology section of the forum so I'll leave that for another topic. So I can say that Sheol/Hades are on Earth according to the Bible.

I'm still on the fence if Hell is also on Earth but that's only because I'm on the fence about Hell being equivalent to Hades/Sheol. If the concepts are equivalent, then Hell also exists on Earth. For now, the only good reason I have to equate Hell and Hades is because I'm so used to associating Hell with punishment and for dead non-believers to already be in Sheol going through punishment would mean that Sheol (or a part of it) is the same as Hell. But I do consider that the two aren't the same if I can come around to accepting that there are 2 phases of punishment in the afterlife, a temporary one in Sheol for those that have already died, and then there's another one that will include all the wicked (dead and alive) - with the second one being the Lake of Fire or Hell.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wrong: Luke 16:23-24 And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Again, you are wrong. I have not altered a single word from the Scriptures.

Luke 16:23 Lexicon: "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.

and fwiw i wouldnt waste a lot of time trying to show this guy how he is literally putting Scripture in parenthesis over his preferred translation; gather as many witnesses as you may and confront him, he will never, ever admit that he might even possibly be wrong, it is always you who will be wrong, exactly like the Bible says about scribes who will translate to suit their audiences.

He—who in thirty years of study has never heard of the CoSI—even imagines that he is helping you, bc you are not as qualified to read the Bible as he is. He is beyond any help, and must preserve his fragile ego at any cost. You still have a choice