Featured Where is Heaven and Hell located?

[AgnosticBoy]

The Bible talks a lot about people ascending, starting with those like Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, etc. Does that mean that Heaven is somewhere above? Or maybe this is not literal?

Take Matthew 11:23,
23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades.

Here's an odd but related passage that talks about a "third Heaven" in 2 Corinthians 12:2:
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.

For Discussion:
1. Is Heaven and Hell located on Earth or somewhere in the Universe? Is it the "third heaven"?
2. As an extra to help clarify, what is the difference between Hell and Hades and Heaven and Paradise?

 

[William]

Within.

The degrees of heaven are like levels in a game.

 

[Scooter]

The first heaven is our atmosphere where birds fly and clouds float. The second heaven is where the stars, planets and galaxies spin. The third heaven is outside of our universe. It is where God abides. Since God has created everything, He has to be outside of all creation. For instance, when a man builds a house, he is not part of the house. He exists outside and separate from the house. Now, he can live in the house but he is separate from the building proper. God can enter our universe, our world and our lives, but He still separate from all of creation.

Hell, IMO, is in the center of the earth. It is a place of darkness and torment. It is a temporary holding place for souls who reject Jesus. In the OT it was called Sheol. In the NT it is called Hades. After the Great White Throne Judgment, everyone in Hell (Sheol/Hades) will be cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. We also refer to this place as Hell, even though the Bible calls it the Lake of Fire.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

@Scooter

I'm with you on Heaven. I've also read that there are 3 heavens that the Bible talks about. The Bible brings up a "third heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2) but never gives a higher one than that. Interestingly, I read the Book of Enoch and that talks about there being like 10 levels of Heaven, and I think the story called Dante's Inferno talks about there being many levels of Hell.

Where I disagree with your view is on equating Hell with Sheol and Hades. I view Sheol and Hades as being a place for all of the dead, and I say this because even the righteous are said to be in those places like the Psalmist in Psalm 88:12. Wasn't Abraham in Hades?

I found that this article helps to clarify things:

In the Hebrew Scriptures, the word used to denote the realm of the dead is sheol. It simply means “the place of the dead” or “the place of departed souls/spirits.” The New Testament Greek equivalent to sheol is hades, which is also a general reference to “the place of the dead.” Sheol/hades is divided into a place of blessing (where Lazarus was in Luke 16) and a place of torment (where the rich man was in Luke 16). Sheol also seems to be a temporary place where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection. The souls of the righteous, at death, go directly into the presence of God—the part of sheol called “heaven,” “paradise,” or “Abraham’s bosom” (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23).

The Greek word gehenna is used in the New Testament for “hell” (see Matthew 5:29; 23:33). The word is derived from the Hebrew word ge-hinnom, which designated a valley south of Jerusalem—a cursed place that had been the site of human sacrifice (2 Chronicles 28:3; 33:6). Jesus referenced Gehenna as a symbol of the place of judgment after death, alluding to prophecies in Jeremiah 19:6 and Isaiah 30:33.

The lake of fire, mentioned only in Revelation 19:20 and 20:10, 14-15, is the final hell, the place of eternal punishment for all unrepentant rebels, both angelic and human (Matthew 25:41). It is described as a place of burning sulfur, and those in it experience eternal, unspeakable agony of an unrelenting nature (Luke 16:24; Mark 9:45-46). Those in hades/sheol who have rejected Christ will have the lake of fire as their final destination.

- GotQuestions

 

[bbyrd009]

Within.

The degrees of heaven are like levels in a game.

ha but if adam and eve were in paradise, one that it would be better to not play?

 

[bbyrd009]

The first heaven is our atmosphere where birds fly and clouds float. The second heaven is where the stars, planets and galaxies spin. The third heaven is outside of our universe.

is it? how do you know?

It is where God abides. Since God has created everything, He has to be outside of all creation.

does He? Why?

8Then the man and his wife heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the breezeb of the day, and they hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden

For instance, when a man builds a house, he is not part of the house. He exists outside and separate from the house. Now, he can live in the house but he is separate from the building proper. God can enter our universe, our world and our lives, but He still separate from all of creation.

Hell, IMO, is in the center of the earth. It is a place of darkness and torment. It is a temporary holding place for souls who reject Jesus. In the OT it was called Sheol. In the NT it is called Hades. After the Great White Throne Judgment, everyone in Hell (Sheol/Hades) will be cast into the Lake of Fire for all eternity. We also refer to this place as Hell, even though the Bible calls it the Lake of Fire.

Wherever do you get these ideas? There is no punishment in Hades’ mythology Scooter, nor in the Jewish Sheol

and that the relevant “eternity” is not derived from the Greek for forever we have already covered
although to be fair i recall one or two aidios in the rev, could be in there i guess

not to mention that there is no “everyone in hell will be cast into the lake”

you know you will be held to account for altering the Bible right? Do you not understand what not being found in the book of life means? If so, then i dont get why you are deliberately excluding yourself, Scooter. Wouldnt it be better to maybe qualify your statements a little, allow for the possibility that you might be a little off?

and thus avoid the lake yourself, i mean? How is it you even imagine that this can end well for you, idk

 

[bbyrd009]

imagine being one of his kids, Jesus

 

[Scooter]

Where I disagree with your view is on equating Hell with Sheol and Hades. I view Sheol and Hades as being a place for all of the dead, and I say this because even the righteous are said to be in those places like the Psalmist in Psalm 88:12. Wasn't Abraham in Hades?

Yes and No. Prior to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus, all souls went to Sheol/Hades. In the story of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus revealed Lazarus on one side, called Abraham's Bosom, while the rich man was on the other side in torment. While on the cross, one thief asked Jesus to remember him when He came into His Kingdom. Jesus told him that he would be with Him in Paradise that very day. He did not say they would be in Heaven, but Paradise. The Bible tells us what happened when Jesus died and entered Sheol/Hades. Notice 1 Peter 3:18-19 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Now look at Ephesians 4:8-10 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) So based on these verses we see at Jesus' death, His spirit entered Sheol/Hades and preached the Gospel to those in Abraham's bosom. Then when He ascended to Heaven, He took those spirits with Him. We are now taught that when believers die, our spirits go to God's presence in Heaven: 2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Non-believers still go to Sheol/Hades until the end time when they will be brought up to stand before God at the Great White Throne Judgement. Look at Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Notice death and Hell (Hades) gave up the dead and then both death and Hades will be cast in the Lake of Fire along with all non-believers.

Thank you for showing Sheol/Hades being a temporary holding place for the dead. Hopefully I have shed some light on the current purpose of Sheol/Hades.

 

[Scooter]

Wherever do you get these ideas?

From decades of studying the Bible under sound theologians such as Matthew Henry, Matthew Poole, J.Vernon McGee, Warren Weirsbe, John Gill, Albert Barnes, Adam Clarke, and Oliver Greene.

There is no punishment in Hades’ mythology Scooter, nor in the Jewish Sheol

Wrong: Luke 16:23-24 And in hell (Hades) he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

not to mention that there is no “everyone in hell will be cast into the lake”

Wrong again: Revelation 20:13-15 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

you know you will be held to account for altering the Bible right?

Again, you are wrong. I have not altered a single word from the Scriptures.

Do you not understand what not being found in the book of life means? If so, then i dont get why you are deliberately excluding yourself, Scooter. Wouldnt it be better to maybe qualify your statements a little, allow for the possibility that you might be a little off?

I am very well aware of what it means to not be found in the Lamb's Book of Life. The question is, do you? As an overcomer in Christ Jesus, my name will remain in the His Book of Life: Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Scooter]

How is it you even imagine that this can end well for you, idk

Easy....it will end well for me because I trust in Jesus and His finished work. I have no faith in me, but total faith in my Savior. That is how I KNOW it will end well for me. Too bad you can't say the same.

Looks like you're batting 0 for 6.