Featured The Gospel of Mark successfully reconciles 2 different versions of the Miracle of Loaves and Fishes

[AgnosticBoy]

If there was multiple attestation for a mundane event, and it would be accepted as history, then I'd be open to accepting supernatural stories based on the same level of evidence.

I respectfully disagree. I guess I have a sliding scale. The more “way out” the event, the more evidence I want.

I touched on this topic here:

Featured Thread 'A non-believer's case for the Resurrection'

Jun 14, 2024

Imagine that some event in the past is documented. It has multiple attestation, it has explanatory power, etc. Would not such an event be accepted as a historical fact by many, including historians? The answer is yes.

But, then let's say that the event is a supernatural one, like the resurrection of Jesus. Now all of the sudden, the event is not accepted despite having the same level of evidence. To show the absurdity even more, let's say that Jesus's resurrection had many different sources, even from rivals. Even the Roman governor, Pontius Pilate that sentenced Jesus to death says...

• AgnosticBoy
• Replies: 11
• Forum: Christianity (section 2)

But I'll go more into it later on. But in brief, I would say that evidence is evidence. I view the resurrection as having the same level of evidence as other events that are accepted in history, esp. ancient history. I can touch more on this point in the thread I linked to.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

are accepted in history, esp. ancient history.

I don’t agree with the “multiple attestation” premise.

PS I’m kind of open to how you maybe view science and history as different.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Gospel of Mark - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“ . . . An early Christian tradition deriving from Papias of Hierapolis (c.60–c.130 AD) attributes authorship of the gospel to Mark, a companion and interpreter of Peter, but most scholars believe that it was written anonymously, . . . ”


==========

Okay, so neither Wikipedia nor “most scholars” is a slam dunk. But unknown author is at least . . . one mainstream position?

 

[Scooter]

“ . . . An early Christian tradition deriving from Papias of Hierapolis (c.60–c.130 AD) attributes authorship of the gospel to Mark, a companion and interpreter of Peter, but most scholars believe that it was written anonymously, . . . ”


==========

Okay, so neither Wikipedia nor “most scholars” is a slam dunk. But unknown author is at least . . . one mainstream position?

I find it amazing how early church fathers, who lived within one generation from the original writing, accept the authorship of Mark, but modern "scholars", two millennia removed, reject Mark as the author. The hubris displayed by many of these experts in believing they know better than the people of the time and era is staggering. This gospel was part of the original canon and was never in doubt by those early church leaders. Here's what it boils down to: Regardless of who penned the gospel, God is the Author.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I find it amazing how early church fathers,

It sounds like it is church father singular. The one leader Papias who was born around 60 AD.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 6 - New International Version

A Prophet Without Honor - Jesus left there and went to his hometown, accompanied by his disciples. When the Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were amazed. “Where did this man get these things?” they asked. “What’s this wisdom that has been given him? What...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 41 —
Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to his disciples to distribute to the people. He also divided the two fish among them all.

— NIV, meaning New International Version

============

I like the aspect in which Jesus gave thanks before the miracle.

Miracles happen every day of the week but never be schedule.

So, you have to be ready to take a deep breath and make a big stomach. And maybe even forgive someone.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 6 - Amplified Bible

Teaching at Nazareth - Jesus left there and came to His hometown [Nazareth]; and His disciples followed Him. When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue; and many who listened to Him were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things [this knowledge and spiritual...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 41 — Taking the five loaves and two fish, He looked up to heaven and said a blessing [of praise and thanksgiving to the Father]. Then He broke the loaves and [repeatedly] gave them to the disciples to set before the people; and He divided up the two fish among them all.
42 — They all ate and were satisfied.
43 — And the disciples picked up twelve full baskets of the broken pieces [of the loaves], and of the fish. 44 — Those who ate the loaves were five thousand men [not counting the women and children].

— AMP, meaning Amplified Bible. The explanatory words in the square brackets are in this version of the Bible.

 

[Scooter]

I find it amazing how early church fathers,

It sounds like it is church father singular. The one leader Papias who was born around 60 AD.

It wasn't only Papias who believed Mark was the penman but Irenaeus and Clement believed this also. Here's a link to support this position.

Who Wrote the Gospel of Mark?

Yet they appear in our oldest manuscripts as titles and/or as postscripts, and so testify both to the antiquity of the traditional authorship and to the…

zondervanacademic.com

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

It wasn't only Papias who believed Mark was the penman but Irenaeus

Irenaeus lived quite a bit later. He was born circa 130 AD.

Irenaeus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

the aspect of giving thanks before the miracle,

I wonder if Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, and so on and so forth also have this?