Featured The Gospel of Mark successfully reconciles 2 different versions of the Miracle of Loaves and Fishes

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 8 - King James Version

In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them, I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat: And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they...

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Chapter 8 —

17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?

18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.

20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.

21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

— King James Version

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Two different miracles, two different numbers, no problem.

And yet —

When I attended a fundamentalist church from age 12 to age 17, the fact that this miracle was repeated was never mentioned. Not one single time. As if individual Christians found this embarrassing.

As an analogy, if your a lawyer and there are facts damaging to your client, you need to be the one to tell the jury. For example, if your client lied to the police because he was afraid, you probably need to start talking about this during jury selection. Maybe start with the first five jurors, ask them, Are you going to assume that because someone lied to the police that they’re automatically guilty?

And so a minister —

should maybe ask, Why did Jesus repeat this miracle twice but only twice? Maybe because it needed to be repeated and it could still be special the second time.

And in general, I think Christians should acknowledge the messy parts of their own Bible.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Just was reminded how much I'm not a fan of the KJV. And yes, in my teen years I thought that was the holiest of versions.

Back to the topic, I didn't know this was an issue, but now I do. I noticed that some people looked at the feeding of thousands as being one event so they said there was a discrepancy in the numbers of people fed - with one account saying 4,000 while another says 5,000. Yes, clearly these were two separate events. Although I don't like to view the Bible as one big book like a lot of religious people do, but I do accept that some parts go together, like when 2 different sources give accounts of the same event. It's only reasonable to consider that one leave out details while the other elaborates on it.

 

[Scooter]

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 8 - King James Version

In those days the multitude being very great, and having nothing to eat, Jesus called his disciples unto him, and saith unto them, I have compassion on the multitude, because they have now been with me three days, and have nothing to eat: And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they...

www.biblegateway.com

Chapter 7 —

17 And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?

18 Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?

19 When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.

20 And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.

21 And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

— King James Version

===============

Two different miracles, two different numbers, no problem.

And yet —

When I attended a fundamentalist church from age 12 to age 17, the fact that this miracle was repeated was never mentioned. Not one single time. As if individual Christians found this embarrassing.

As an analogy, if your a lawyer and there are facts damaging to your client, you need to be the one to tell the jury. For example, if your client lied to the police because he was afraid, you probably need to start talking about this during jury selection. Maybe start with the first five jurors, ask them, Are you going to assume that because someone lied to the police that they’re automatically guilty?

And so a minister —

should maybe ask, Why did Jesus repeat this miracle twice but only twice? Maybe because it needed to be repeated and it could still be special the second time.

And in general, I think Christians should acknowledge the messy parts of their own Bible.

Perhaps I am missing something. Or maybe I am misunderstanding your position. This is not a repeated miracle. The feeding of the multitudes happened at two different times. The first is recorded in Mark 6:34-44 and the second in Mark 8:1-9. Are you claiming these two events are actually one event? Matthew also records these miracles as separate events (Matt.14 & Matt.15).

Here's what I find amusing...the link you posted from Bible Gateway is from Mark 8, yet you claim the story is from Mark 7. The only mess I can see isn't with the Bible.

 

[Scooter]

Just was reminded how much I'm not a fan of the KJV. And yes, in my teen years I thought that was the holiest of versions.

I looked these verses in several different translations and they all say the same thing. I do believe the KJV is the most accurate translation for English speaking people. As an example, quote Matthew 18:11 from the NIV, ESV, RSV or NASB. Then try quoting Acts 8:37 from these versions.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Just was reminded how much I'm not a fan of the KJV.

I myself like the poetry of the King James.

But on this thread, I’ll include a different version or two for you. I think most Bible versions are pretty accurate, although with the paraphrased versions you have to be little careful.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

The feeding of the multitudes happened at two different times.

In Sunday School to children it’s presented as one miracle with one specific set of numbers. And that’s probably a mistake.

The Gospel of Mark is presenting Jesus twice doing the same type of miracle.

And thank you for the heads up on Chapter number. I’ll fix that.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I do believe the KJV is the most accurate translation for English speaking people

But isn’t King James old time English?

And doesn’t it leave off what we’ve learned from the Dead Sea Scrolls?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Mark 6 - English Standard Version

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth - He went away from there and came to his hometown, and his disciples followed him. And on the Sabbath he began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard him were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things? What is the wisdom given to him? How are...

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Chapter 6 —

32 And they went away in the boat to a desolate place by themselves. 33 Now many saw them going and recognized them, and they ran there on foot from all the towns and got there ahead of them. 34 When he went ashore he saw a great crowd, and he [Jesus] had compassion on them, because they were like sheep without a shepherd. And he began to teach them many things. 35 And when it grew late, his disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the hour is now late. 36 Send them away to go into the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat.” 37 But he answered them, “You give them something to eat.” And they said to him, “Shall we go and buy two hundred denarii worth of bread and give it to them to eat?” 38 And he said to them, “How many loaves do you have? Go and see.” And when they had found out, they said, “Five, and two fish.” 39 Then he commanded them all to sit down in groups on the green grass. 40 So they sat down in groups, by hundreds and by fifties. 41 And taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven and said a blessing and broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples to set before the people. And he divided the two fish among them all. 42 And they all ate and were satisfied. 43 And they took up twelve baskets full of broken pieces and of the fish. 44 And those who ate the loaves were five thousand men.

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I like how Jesus gives a blessing before the Miracle. There’s a good moral lesson in there. Buddhists may do something similar.

People have to be open to the miracle.

In fact, evangelical Christians like the story of a man on the roof of his house who’s in danger from rising water. People in boat come by and say, Hi, let us save you, get in the boat. The man says, no, I’m waiting for God. A bigger boat and a helicopter both come by, and the man tells them the same thing. Finally, the man dies and go to Heaven. He asks God why He didn’t save him? God says, I tried! You have to do your part, too.

I think being open to good things and adventures is a good way of going through life.


* even though as a good-hearted agnostic, I think it’s most likely that neither miracle of loaves & fishes actually happened

 

[Scooter]

In Sunday School to children it’s presented as one miracle with one specific set of numbers. And that’s probably a mistake.

The Gospel of Mark is presenting Jesus twice doing the same type of miracle.

If these two events are being taught as one event, you need another Sunday school teacher. I don't know anyone who teaches this as being one miracle.

In Luke 5:12-13, Jesus heals a leper. In Luke 17:11-19, Jesus heals 10 lepers. Since Jesus performs the same type miracle in Luke, are you suggesting these separate events are the same miracle retold just to reconcile the numbers? I'm sorry, but this type of argument appears to me to be a case of special pleading.

 

[Scooter]

But isn’t King James old time English?

And doesn’t it leave off what we’ve learned from the Dead Sea Scrolls?

I did not say it was the easiest to read. I said it was the most accurate. What differences do you notice between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the KJV?