Message Generation

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 6

211222 [Separate Selfishness Shining]

06:24 [Important Journey]


GM: Illuminate Imaginative Realities
The bits will suffice.
The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us
In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
Yam
Look For the Significance
Concomitant [a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
"From the link"
Optimum Validation
WingMakers Medium
More
The Minds Eye
"And the wind will blow my tears away"

Apologist explains how to get prayer answered. - Page 58 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

...
Yet I have never seen that stop an atheist from consistently attempting to use science in their telling of their opinions about gods.

As an atheist, I'm not above referring to science in support of various claims I, or others, may make.

I was being specific to statements of opinion, rather than claims.
For example, a common argument from atheists that there cannot be a Creator-GOD because "Evolution" when it is clear that the theory of evolution offers no evidence that we do not exist within a creation.
Stuff like that.

It's just such a good source for confirmatory data. That theists can't, or struggle to refer to science in order to promote their beliefs is their problem, not a problem of scientific principles.

On the surface this sounds logical.
However, on the belief that we exist within a creation = "Therefore a Creator-GOD" there has been no science done which provides any of us with the right to premise. ["Therefore a Creator-GOD"]
Thus, promoting beliefs in ideas of Creator-GODs is cart before the horse stuff.
However, if one proceeds in a horse before the cart manner, the focus is on the idea that we exist within a creation, we can then look for evidence within the reality experience we call 'The Universe" and see what can be found therein to support the notion that the reality experience is a creation.

As you know, I'm very intrigued by your Cosmic Mind hypothesis. I want your notion to be true, to be scientifically proven, insofar as how neat I think it would be. I'd love for the scientific community to be able to offer confirmation in this regard. Sadly though, you and I enjoy this notion without such confirmation.

Thanks for saying so. We share in the intrigue.
For me, the notion certainly appears to be true re the evidence - even through the Message Generating Process under development - [Today's GM] is certainly understandable enough and deals with this subject in more detail.

As I understand it, IF there is a "Cosmic Mind" involved with the creation of our Universe, scientists will eventually [naturally] discover this just by continuing to do science.
In the meantime I do my own science, and am satisfied with the results so far.
Going off of the readership stats so far, there appears to be a consistent reader-interest where I post the GMs - here, and in other internet forums...

Granted, where an atheist (or anyone) refers to science and gets it wrong, we oughta all fuss about that.

My position is that - in the last 24 hours - I have decided that am done with interacting with atheists and being distracted by their statements of opinion re the Question of GOD...except for the exception of JK because you have consistently shown a willingness to remain open minded about the idea of a "Cosmic Mind" and it is undeniable that such a Mind - if it truly exists - could be referred to as a "GOD'.
In all my years of interacting with atheists, I have never had the pleasure and - like I say - After years of subjection to atheist opinions, I have had enough of it.

As an amateur, a wanna-be scientist, maybe I rely too much on science in support of my own world view.

What will you do if/when science discovers that we actually do exist within a creation?

I submit though, that cracking open the bible ain't the way to fix that.

That is an irrelevant opinion to me, because - as you know - I am not a Theist or an Atheist because I see no logic in having an opinion on GOD until it can be established that we exist within a creation.

The closest I come to that, is with the notion that there MAY be a "Cosmic Mind" and if such can be identified in ANY religious script, I am open [of mind] to investigating that.

Otherwise - since I am not advocating folk need to do that, it is not an issue I have to answer to.

Thanks for you feedback John.

GM: Theist mischief making
A cultural touchstone
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse
"Hear thee Hear Thee"
Stay Present

Generating Messages - Page 35 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

Micro Reflections of a Macro Reality
Wall-Walker
Practicing peace
Ars Notoria

William: Yes - the 'Angels and Demons" being aspects of our subconscious reality which is an aspect of the self often overlooked and misunderstood...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1091105#p1091105

William: FTL;

[Replying to tam in post #110]

I am averse to the assumptions you are making, the utter lack of evidence you are providing for your claims - including the lack of evidence you have provided for everything in this very post...

They are not "claims" they are statements of opinion in response to your own statements of opinion.
As such, neither of us are required to provide evidence...or find aversity therein.

as well as the double-standard you are employing in using the 'bible' to speak of "Satan" to begin with, all the while ignoring the very evidence that book provides about his nature.

My opinion to do with Satan is not ignoring what the Bible tells us of Satan's Character. His Role is specific to that, and obviously useful to the God of the Bible, as the Bible tells it.

William: You seem adverse to my understanding that the way Satan is utilized by God is reflected onto God and can be seen for what it is, by the audience.
I do not have those images you have in your beliefs about Satan, and am not accusing anyone, Satan, God or Job, Christ, David Paul or any other entity effected by God.

Accusing them of what? I'm not sure where that comment is coming from.

I am pointing out the irony re your accusations about me. All accusations [about me or anyone else] come from Satan - which is to say - are mirrored finger-pointing. My "Accuser" [in this case "Tam"] is regarded by me, as voicing accusation = "as coming from Satan" since he is the God-Father of accusation.

[Perhaps have a think about how Peace is formed...it is never formed through the voicing of accusation.]

William: I simply pointed out that there is no mention of Job being consulted on the matter before being cast into the role.

Why are you pointing that out when no one suggested otherwise?

Exactly! It is not expected that in the affairs between YHWH and Satan, that humans need be consulted before they are used re said affairs. This theme and it's varients run through the Bible in relation to the God and Human beings.

I listen to the TRUTHFUL voice of Christ Jaheshua, who is the Light.

That is a statement of opinion Tam. I appreciate it as such, and thus require no evidence from you to back it up.

I also think it is inappropriate for you to use my friend Joey (peace to you!) in an argument with me. So just don't.

Joey has shared with us all, his dilemma. You both share the same "hearing a voice" phenomena. It is appropriate for me to point that out, and so I did.

GM: Christian mythology re God " It helps makes the stinky hole I was pushed through in order to get here, a purposeful experience..."
Just because we might be existing within a creation, and just because it may be nestled within another universe, shouldn't mean that it is somehow an unnatural thing compared to our own.
Grace
Families
Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results.
Who Knows What That Is Worth?
Make It Real

06:35
06:49

GM: Coming From QueenBee
Your Dream Team
Callum's Seventh Point
I Think We Can Safely Say
Recover what was lost Do A=1
Do this
Giving our best
This Perpetually Translates To That.

William: This Perpetually Translates To That. Giving our best Does this = 687
Six Eight Seven = 166
[166]
Enflame Emotions
Centre of learning
Supernatural
Self-compassion
The Healing Power
Interesting data
Science of Truth
It is what it is
Solar System
Tetragrammaton
Personal freedom

GM: Religious theists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through wilful ignorance.
Circle
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Read
Be Honest
Yellow Light
Calculation
Stop. Listen. Observe. Wonder.
Dualism Separates Because Oneness Remains Hidden
Unless of course, you think otherwise
The Truth
It can bite and scratch so one has to be careful

William: "Chuckles"

GM: Catching up
Try To Feel It
Context
Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.]

Generating Messages - Page 32 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

GM: Especially re the possibility of the planet having a mind in which all our minds are connected...in ways we are not overly conscious of... = 1289
[One Two Eight Nine = 183]
[183]
Elemental Powers
Fling That Veil Aside
Test The Waters
The Hubble Telescope
Manifest Destiny
Planned obsolescence
Hydrogen and helium
Learn to trust
The brain as a receiver
Sister Saturn
Truthfulness
Transformation
Embracing your life
The problem of evil
Cosmic Pluralism
Children of The Light

GM: Fling That Veil Aside
Truthfulness
Embracing your life
Cosmic Pluralism
Transformation
Test The Waters
The brain as a receiver
Sister Saturn
Hydrogen and helium
The Hubble Telescope
Children of The Light
Elemental Powers
Planned obsolescence
Manifest Destiny
Learn to trust
The problem of evil

William: Hmmm...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1069816#p1069816

William: "Master ColdFire trick" Testing the waters - Tanager performed his role well re that he prompted Callum to remain calm while all hell was breaking loose...which it wasn't - the trick was in trying to make Callum believe that it was, and Tanager wasn't buying into that...

GM: Only
Yours It is always a warm fuzzy

William: Well yes. Immediately Tanager responded as he did, I dropped the façade and then had to deal with the backlash and interference by Tanager with one of my own Characters...he would not let go of for the longest time...rules of engagement were broken...

GM: Nyx

07:21
[221]
What kind of god is this?
Sweet Illumination
Closer to The Source
First Things First
Who woulda thought!

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 7


221222 [Once Upon a Time "Lordy! Do I Have To?"]

05:34 [The Mother and The Father]


GM: Study
Spiritual Food

William: Study Spiritual Food = 254
[254]
The word association field
Empower The Inner Empire
The bits I like will suffice.
"Partial free will is a thing".
Standstill Contemplate
Study Spiritual Food
Swallowed - hook, bait and line
Universe of Wholeness
Science of Consciousness

GM: Atheism cannot be defined through defining "atheists"
The Purple Heart medal

Morals are like Math. Both were discovered rather than invented.
Delightful Anticipation
"I guess it is just us, Master ColdFire"
Pride

William: Hmmm...so this was perhaps part of the reason why Tanager became stubborn in regard to admitting when he was shown that he was breaking the rule not to appropriate someone else's Character? He wouldn't let go of Master Coldfire and admit his mistake ...?

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=11707

is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Destination
Noticeable within The Realms of Democracy
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Camelot
Elude Tabula Rasa
Group Hallucination

Does the body need consciousness? - Page 4 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to AgnosticBoy in post #34]

If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That's doesn't exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that's less than physical.

The important thing AB, is to keep trying. As Joey Knothead commented to me recently;

Joey Knothead: You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is.

I myself lean toward theistic interpretation of existence because it works more directly with the fact of consciousness, rather than attempting to designate it as somehow 'besides the point' in relation to science.

To be fair, there are scientists who are focusing their attention on consciousness [Donald Hoffman for example] and his approach is genuine and he has much respect for his scientist peers.

It needs to be understood that the hard problem of consciousness is problematic because of the ideas which spring from the possibility that consciousness is not an emergent property of the brain - many do not want to 'go there' because of the stigma attached to it re 'crazy' folk who go too far without good supporting scientific structures to ensure that the 'too far' is always tempered by rationality and logic - because there is very strong evidence that lack of such support leads to cult-activity which either has its leaders and followers committing mass suicide or avoiding such through eventually becoming a 'respected religion' ...both options unnecessary and avoidable by maintaining the solid practices science prides itself in acoomplishing.

Nevertheless, consciousness being the enigma it is - the "Ghost in The Machinery" - the stigma attached to that concept can only be erased if we learn to understand that there is nothing 'super-natural' about it - without having to resort to the notion that it is an emergent property of nature.

GM: Dying? Use Mind
A Life Sentence Ending in a Death Sentence

God Must Exist: Infinite Regression is Impossible - Page 66 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

So why are you so confident in declaring that time does not physically exist in the universe?

For the same reasons as numbers do not physically exist. They don't physically exist.

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #655]

But how could you know that, when you don't know what time is fundamentally?

The same way as I know that the mind does not physically exist. I do not know if the mind is fundamental to the physical universe but I suspect [strongly] that the physical universe would be useless without it.

So the mind wouldn't be so useful without mathematics and time [the obvious Daughter [subset] of numbers] and therefore - while not obvious in any way - it is possible that Mind is a fundamental property of our universe...and that Mathematics is a Son [subset] of said Mind.

Point being - all known conceptual properties of the mind are known to exist only in the mind, and are not physically real and can only be represented physically as "unreal but existing anyway" or some such other appropriate entitlement...

So what made you think a newer, deeper understanding of the universe wouldn't include a newer, deeper version of spacetime? After all, we didn't abandon gravity when general relativity came along.

It may indeed be the case that Physicists are not being careful with their heading and wording. "Doomed" does imply the certainty of death...I am only relaying the basic information. I do my own digging and for now, accept the verdict being pronounced upon spacetime by physicists themselves. If you have contrary information, I am keen to view it.

Logically, some thing cannot derive from no thing.
Since this infers infinite regression [as well as infinite progression], there is no logical justification to refer to such as "fallacy". [re "Turtles all the way down."]
Explanation of apparent beginnings [such as with our universe] therefore has to be seen as points within infinity...

That does not seem to follow, can you break that down into further steps?

Someone already has. Please watch the video I posted earlier on in this thread...the one with the visuals of a flyover of the Mandelbrot Set.

Seems like there is some unstated premise hidden in there, perhaps something like "all things are derived from something else?"

And "something else" is "all things".

The idea is based on the theory of entropy.
Search "the theory of entropy"
"In classical physics, the entropy of a physical system is proportional to the quantity of energy no longer available to do physical work. Entropy is central to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that in an isolated system any activity increases the entropy."

That doesn't answer my question, why would that imply there would be a time when there would be no objects?

Without energy, what is left to construct and maintain shapeform from the field of quantum particles?

Are you sure the use of the word 'time' is appropriate in the sentence "it took time for energy to turn into matter"

Pretty sure, yes. It took the existence of time itself, and the passage of time.

Just checking.

I think the more appropriate word to use in that sentence would have to be;

"it took a false premise for energy to turn into matter" as energy does not turn into matter. Energy holds the shape of matter. Matter already existed. The theory of entropy has it that energy is passing through quantum field and creating form as it does so. As "time" marches on, the past becomes a "wake" like footprints in the snow and eventually disappear as if energy had simply been a Ghost in passing.

So. Do you think that "Time" = "Energy"? Or do you think are separate entities, doing their own separate thing?

Could it be that there is a state where size and time are unmeasurable? Roger Penrose believes it is possibly the state of singularity. No size and no time as with the singularity, there is no thing to compare that with.

And that's why we say time itself had a beginning: no time with the singularity, now there is time.

"We" also say that time will keep going on forever...yet the past is fading into black...in order for time to last forever, energy has to also exist forever.

Energy cannot have simply farted itself into existence. Therefore logic informs us that it is likely that energy has existed forever...has always existed. Has never - not existed.

Is energy separate from matter, or just another manifestation of matter?

That's just semantics, if energy counts as object, then your earlier question become invalid, the premise that the was a time when there were no objects, would be false.

That depends entirely on the plain of the Quantum field.
For example, if the field is spherical, the energy moving over it and stirring it up into objects of matter, may be no more than a blip on the plain of the Quantum field. Once the energy moves on, the effect on that region diminishes until - once more - the deep silence returns.

Sure, we can identify the compartments re these different realities, but I think it is an overstep to treat them as all fundamentally different, implying different sources.

Why would they have to be fundamentally different though, for some infinities to have a beginning and some not to? Why can't infinites with beginnings and those without be part of an overall infinity?

I am fine with that idea as long as it is agreed there is only - fundamentally - the one Source. The apparent differences are not denoting "many sources".

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1091207#p1091207


William: FTL;

GM: The Hologram of Deception – Yawn
To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...
Nag Hammadi [a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945.]

Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon? - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #87]

Rather, he can be either, depending upon personal refection. If one thinks YVHV is a demon, one will eventually encounter that aspect one believes YVHV to being.

Biblically speaking, this seems to run through the script.

Generally speaking, the branch of theism known as Gnosticism regards YVHV as the demiurge...a false creator-God who has deceived the world and suppressed humankind into servitude...so - in that sense Gnosticism regards YVHV more the 'demon' entity than a true representation of GOD.

Which is just to say, Yahwey is imaginary.

Maybe - maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way.

That's odd, because to every single test you can make, Yahweh is indistinguishable from the imaginary.

It is no more 'odd' than threads asking for answers to imaginary questions...

But to many they aren't imaginary questions or, rather questions about imaginary claims. After all, even Sci Fi and fantasy has to make sense, even if it has magic or advanced technology that looks like it.

Yes. So again I say re YHVH - maybe the Character is imaginary, maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way and therefore answer questions to do with YHWH, along those lines.

Indeed, if the stories of YHWH were fictional - or loosely based upon an actual person - possible questions and answers can still be given, conclusions drawn and opinions offered.

GM: Sweet Hush

Do you understand those on the other side? - Page 67 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

I am speaking of the edge which provides a footing and why I call it "Wall Walking" has to do with the "endless vacuous bickering" which acts as a looping device going nowhere practical, as far as I can tell from Walking the Edge of it.

The design of the universe
Requires
Intelligence with Wisdom
Recognizes
The One GOD with many names
Remembering
Events connected by meaning

Is The Universe Fine Tuned for Human Life? - Page 20 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

Walls are just things designed to separate and from my vantage, I see no practical reason for why this wall exists. I only know that it does exist due to those who contribute to the "endless vacuous bickering" represented as the stone pieces...from another vantage I suspect that the wall looks safe and gives some sense of well-being to those contributing in its continued construction...

...and now to the weather...

999# ʇsoԀ [Appearances are often deceptive]

William: Ah yes - "Wall Walker"

GM: The Wholeness Navigator

Generating Messages - Page 30 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

JK: I'm still not seeing a way to refute your position. As I try to play out different scenarios, it seems as if I'm answering myself.

That last bit's an interesting bit itself.

I'm still firmly in the "product of the brain" camp, but your hypothesis is a fascinating alternate explanation. While it may appear to propose a 'god', to my -ahem- mind, it lacks the baggage of so many such claims.
_____________________________________________

GM: Visionary
The Real Spiritual

05:57
[Extraterrestrial
For Our Loving King
Galactic Encompassment
Tributary Zones
You will overcome]

 

[William]

It was good to be reminded today, of our connection AB

 

[William]

Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. - 8

231222 [Fearlessness neutralizes fear]

06:33 [The Spiritual Essence]

GM: Individual Actions
Awaken
While We All Wait....
Language itself is not the problem. but how we are taught to use language as a major means in which to self-identify incorrectly...thus we flitter and bounce or alternatively cling to the walls of our unwillingness to understand ourselves as we truly are... hiding from that knowledge behind facades of personality we clothe our awareness with...
Let yourself be led
Homeomorphic [a continuous function between topological spaces that has a continuous inverse function.]
Self-Aware
The Unconscious
Stay in the moment
Delineating The Fine Art of Not Being Offended Inordinately

[Neuralink Reveals Insane Truth About Their A.I Brain Chip] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=6ryCFASuaeE

The idea of implanting a chip into a human skull has been riddled with mixed reactions since Elon Musk launched his amazing venture, Neuralink, in 2017.
Most people have been asking pertinent questions like, although we know there are a lot of advantages to it if it works, but does it count when compared to some of the most gruesome threats it may pose? Will this chip also be implanted in newborns? At what age?
Well, on the surface, Elon appears to be on a mission to save mankind; after all, he has long warned us about killer AI machines taking over civilization, but there is a deeper and more severe reason why he is so bent on pushing for Neuralink.

GM: Of This Place
Giving Energy Increases Ones Synchronistic Experiences
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
"Once Bitten Twice Shy"
Put the Teachings Into Practice
Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas
Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs
Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.
The Path Of Faith
The Father
The Abrahamic idea of GOD
The Bidden Zone
Making Steady Progress
My advice to the reader is to follow the links

06:41
Remember who you are
Between a rock and a hard place
Secrets of the soul
Central to The Message
Hologram Dimensions

 

[William]

241222 [We are not orphaned - we are authored]



SCLx + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
Gematria - Anu - Big Spirituality Conviction - Sweet - Philo2 - Kindness - Conundrum - Precognitive dreams - Productive This Besides Where are we getting our news from? - Acknowledging the evidence is where the tributaries converge
AP= A foot in the door "Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!" [=773]

[773]
[Seven Seven Three = 186]
[186]
The Unconscious
Meaningful coincidence
The external voice
Square and Compass
Let yourself be led
Enjoy Progress
The Perfect Moment
Individual Actions

RLE = "Be Taught"

07:01 [Wise beyond my years ]


GM: Encounters
Jesus became the manner in which the misconception could be addressed. No one follower need have understood it in that manner, in order for it to do its job.
Divine feminine
Being Friends
Zeros and Ones

Why Does Christianity Spawn Evil Dictators? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to William in post #15

Also, we can see that materialist-based science is non-theistic and has become the number one reason why we are now entering an extinction event situation.......

.......So if one is looking for somewhere to hang the blame...

Wherever the blame can rightfully be hung, it can hardly be hung around the necks of the scientists who have been warning us of the very extinction event situation you mention.

One must remember that it is a particular branch of Materialistic science to which the blame could be hung - and that the scientists doing the warning are most likely not of that particular branch...they may be biologists rather than cosmologists and so understand the importance of preserving the planet-ship we are sailing upon [@ about 1.6 million miles per day] rather than creating space-junk and reaching for the stars...I did say "Exact Science" after all.

You do know where the Nazi Scientists went after the defeat of Hitlers Germany, right? [Hint - it was not to the hangman's noose.]

GM: Control
Galaxies are like Islands...

Generating Messages - Page 25 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

Atheists crack me up.

Most of the atheist arguments have turned out to be Smoke and Mirrors.
The very idea of a Mind - even to the depths of the Quantum Presence has them fleeing from
Merging with the data and understanding the Integral Network which Mind is and is involved with the development of.
This lack of being reasonable is shirking from Responsibility following after the Tempting Vision and hope in eventual "death by cease to exist" - the promise of ending the nightmare of existing - yet
The Way of the Shaman is allowing life to breath - even if the breath appears to be associated with Sagan's' Dragon in the Garage...it is what it is and even if it hisses smokey instructions inducing the stuff of Childhood Nightmares from some deep part of us, a simple understanding and a gentle reminder - like a Moderator Comment - can make a world of difference...remind oneself occasionally that when the smoke clears [as it will when the dragon stops speaking] one is still left with the mirror.]
Yes indeed...When the smoke clears, one is still left with the mirror...

Atheists crack me up.
_________________

GM: Hell
Be Taught
Improve
r = aeθ cot b

William:

GM: Ask...
Panpsychist
Watchful
As You Think
♬I Really Think Its Ganna Take That Long♬
T-Shirts
Small
GOD God Gods gods


William:

GM: Hyper Complex Data Joining The fire from within

Do you understand those on the other side? - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #1]

So the point of discussion for this thread is....how about you? For the "evolutionists", can you relate to the creationists' way of thinking and behaviors? For the creationists, are there behaviors from the other side that baffle you, and you just don't understand? Do you look at folks like me and think to yourselves, "I just cannot relate to his way of thinking?"

I don't see the problem re the above because I do not view "evolutionists" as opposite from "creationists" although I understand the general differences between the two groups boil down to both thinking that the other either excludes or includes the idea of the universe being a creation - implying a creator - and the idea that a creator can apply to the theory of evolution is often overlooked or pronounced as "unnecessary" and I also see no logical reason why the age of this universe is a necessary matter of contention.

Perhaps it is generally understood that to be a 'creationist' one has to believe in biblical writ, rather than simply understand that there is sufficient evidence to conclude it is most likely we exist within a creation, and in that, the answer to "which" religious idea of god 'did it', becomes redundant.

In saying as much, I personally do not easily relate to the current general-thinking of either "evolutionists" or "creationists".

GM: Keep me in The Loop

William: I created this thread yesterday...Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story


GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1090475#p1090475

William: FTL;

Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

GM: Active
Write A Poem About It
Shamanic dreaming Empower The Inner Empire - The deranged can come about...become arranged.
YVHV uses what YVHV will to get the message across...
Persevere

Generating Messages - Page 20 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

QueenBee
Chamber Of Self - Coming From QueenBee - Open Your Heart
Giving our best - QueenBee - Get The Ball Rolling
Central Purpose - QueenBee - Achievable Alternate Realities
The Fathers 'House - Mansions' - QueenBee - According to Complex Jesus
Items of Interest - QueenBee - Making it up as you go along
Like a doting parent - Coming From QueenBee - Development/Growth

GM: Ancient Entity
Soul Groups A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
Be Taught
Whereabouts
The Data of Experience
Signs
Individuals
*Nods*
Inner Strength
Bandage
People hide their sins from each other.
Learning To Fly
Separate Selfishness Shining
Do A=1
Wish fulfillment
It is obviously in line with providence...

William: Wish fulfillment It is obviously in line with providence... = 620
[620]
Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?
The safety of ignorance or the terrifying reality of knowledge

07:24

Recover what was lost
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse
No Country For Old Men
Two sides of the same coin
The Ancient grey entity
When the dust settles
Earning Brownie Points
The Synoptic Gospels
Those who lack belief in gods
The Never Ending Story
Much pain but still time

 

[William]

Be Taught 2

301222 [Suckling on our milky mother ]

07:52 [What is the meaning of life?]


GM: Discover
We create the machinery regardless of whether we understand how consciousness is connected and motivates us in the way that it does - individually and collectively...
Pineal Gland
A Life Sentence Ending in a Death Sentence
Husband
Crazy Kinship Witty
Leave the door open
Everything Is Unique
Be Taught
Narrative warfare
In a bad mood
Science and Spirituality
Remains
Nontheists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance.
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer.
We Can Do Magic!
Phenomenon
Dare greatly

Generating Messages - Page 31 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

William: What Is The Point? The Story Timeline By all means, psychoanalyze the hell out of it = 854
Understanding and connecting with the source of our language is vital to that vision = 854
From the link;

I think you are missing the point about my Jungian exegesis here, VVilliam, and I do think your point is not valid in the slightest.

Okay…
VVilliam pokes at the fire and ponders upon what Summerlander tells him...and he reaches into the depths of his Cloak, he withdraws his Journal Experience Tablet.
Activating the JET, he then places the word "okay" through the word-value algorithm and adds the result to his data-base...he then reads the results aloud, looking up from the screen and observing for any reaction from summerlander, after saying each word
Earth

Yes. There it is...VVilliam is not surprised
Six
Heart

VViliam thinks of the six heart virtues...Wingmakers are never far from the action...
What
Now
Nods
VVilliam wonders if something similar might be what Job said to his God
Okay...
Create
Form
Ship
Some
Speak
Elohai
Abracadabra

VVilliam thinks of the meme "I'm not saying it was Aliens" and smiles to himself...he looks up at the night sky and feels like he is sharing in a rather elaborate - well concealed - cosmic prank...

I don't see the Biblical parables as objective realities, I see them as psychological events.

VVilliam wonders if Summerlander is taking the micky with his remark re "psychological events" He searches for meaning in the word and gets two hits.
One reads "of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person." and the other "(of an ailment or problem) having a mental rather than a physical cause."

He finds the Word-Value and adds it to the list.

Possible Clues...
The Spirit of The Earth
Well That Settles It
Ian and William Play chess
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Shallow is Unknown
Neruda Interview Five
The Plateau of The Same Page
Present over perfect
Psychological events

Job precisely came to the realisation that just being a good person isn't sufficient!

VVilliam continues to do Word-Values as Summerlander talks. The results are interesting.

A drop of consciousness in an ocean of tears
Just being a good person isn't sufficient

He matured from a phase where he thought just being good before an invisible/imaginary heavenly father would be enough to impress to a more realistic and pragmatic outlook about the world where the goods to be reaped from the land aren't going to sow themselves, so to speak—and he was happier for it as evidenced by the tenfold prosperity that unraveled post-realisation. His experience precisely made him develop a thicker skin after the calamitous events (proverbially, Satan's input) in his life and he only got 'closer to God' in the sense that he improved his relationship with the world around him (as it is said, 'God is everywhere').

Summerlander pauses and VVilliam takes the opportunity to speak.

VVilliam: Job realizes the God is real but not in the way he had previously imagined.

Perhaps Job realized that The God he was interacting with, was the planet itself?

Or perhaps only we in today’s world can really get a bead on that, since we now have pictures of the planet, from a spaceman’s perspective.

In reality the journey continues because none of us really know The God sufficiently outside of our own imaginations.

At least the Earth is real enough – never to mind the rest of the universe…

I see that you've smuggled in 'lack of empathy' as if it's anywhere near the same ballpark as 'developing a thick skin'—it isn't.

VVilliam carries on with his calculations

Astral Guides
Etched mirror
Healing The Beast
Contact With
Satisfaction
Three In A Row
Small Steps
Divine Sound
Fingerprint
A rock and a hard place
Balance of power
“Moonchargers”
Mindfulness
In the moment
Heaven on Earth
'Lack of empathy'

Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean he or she lacks empathy any more than being a Muslim automatically aligns your beliefs with the intolerant and psychotic ISIS ideology. In fact, many serial killers exhibit religious beliefs and yet lack empathy for everybody else.

Ancient Grey Entity
If In Doubt Let It Sit
Nazi Space Program Agenda
Independent from what?
Conspiracy theory
Monkey See Monkey Do
When things fall apart
The Undiscovered Self
'Developing a thick skin'

Do you honestly believe that all atheists necessarily lack empathy and that they are all crying at the prospect of death being final?

VVilliam clears his throat and then answers.

VVilliam: I honestly do not know what all atheists are doing…the ones I have met seem to be as unique to their own sense of self as all the non-atheists are.

Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!

More calculations - additional data

Anticipating that this will prove to be helpful to the science
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.
Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!

Bearing in mind what happened to Job, I'd like you to picture such scenario happening to you, only you discover that the disease you've been infected with and the torture and murder of some of the people you love and care about were the result of a bet that your father had with some nefarious agent. You confront your father and demand answers only to hear him say that you weren't around when he made a home for you and your siblings and that you are not wise enough to comprehend his actions.

Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?

VVilliam doesn't hesitate with answering summerlanders question.

VVilliam: I would respect his position immensely and bow to that – the 'bowing' would be symbolized within the actions of showing respect.
I would also have further questions... Questions as such a Son might be permitted to ask and be graced with answers.

What is a poor boy to do, faced with such factuality?

I might also ask “how thick do you want my skin to be?” but would be smiling as I did so…

VVilliam places another log on the fire and takes a sip of his cooled-down brew. Then he taps on his tablet screen, busy adding results to his JET.
Love Life
Pyramid
Being Born
Respect
Tricky
Symbol
Compass
An Elder Race
Stone Age
Integral
...of said agenda...
Lift your gaze from the fire
The Human Form as a Means to an End
Memorandum of Understanding
...but would be smiling as I did so…
Reminding one of how it all started and the different stages one goes through.
Questions as such a Son might be permitted to ask and be graced with answers


Somewhere in the small grove of trees, Te Ruru calls...and the sound brings a smile to VVilliams thick-skined face...

I think you are missing the point about my Jungian exegesis here, VVilliam, and I do think your point is not valid in the slightest.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
The point I am focused upon is at the very center of the Mandala, summerlander.

GM: Mind’s Eye

William: Yes...the idea of "The Creator" expands as human knowledge about their situation, is discovered.
This reminds me of what Theophile is writing, re our discussion as to whether Simulation Theory and Evolution Theory and Creation Theory {Genesis One} can able to be reconciled.
Re: Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story
Post #14

I am enjoying that interaction as it is fruitful - removed from the normalized "Narrative warfare"
"In a bad mood" type, that you mentioned.
Focus on what remains - which, as you also pointed out - it is Science and Spirituality that Remains...

GM: Tetrahedron
Inner self

William: Correct - as such both converge, creating the ...

GM: Incentive
"If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'."

Communication with the dead - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Communication with the dead

Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?

There would be a number of reasons. For me it was motivated by the knowledge that I was getting shallow and often dubious communication with the living, even in relation to opinions about the dead.
I decided that I would give 'the dead' an opportunity to show they had more to offer.

Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.

The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.

The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.{SOURCE}

Or is it idle curiosity without reason?

Curiosity [no matter how idle] always involves reason.

A warning about Ouija
University of Akron professor Oscar E. Olin, an ordained Universalist minister and instructor of philosophy and social sciences, was a major skeptic of Ouija.

Voices from beyond the grave? What complete balderdash.

He feared that the boards could cause psychological harm among those who developed too close an attachment.

“Many people, falling victims to its lure, have been mentally unbalanced,” he said. “Just as one may go insane over too close application to any one subject, so the Ouija board has its danger for the credulous, the superstitious, the hysterically inclined.”

So imagine Olin’s surprise when he tried Ouija and the planchette moved.

He was toying with the board when, to his curiosity, the indicator seemed to spell out a word. He was alone at the time, so he couldn’t blame anyone else.

The professor developed a theory: Perhaps his fingers had acted on unconscious impulses from the brain. Ignoring his own advice on developing too close an attachment, he began to conduct “exhaustive experiments” with Ouija boards.

“Although I certainly did not practice conscious fraud on myself, I found that I was able to get frequently startling sentences from the board as long as I could see what was being spelled,” he explained.

To test his hypothesis, he constructed his own talking board that included several common words as well as letter groupings that made it easier to form sentences. But he also added an adjustable screen that could block his view of the board.

Ouija seemed positively verbose without the obstruction.

“The moment I adjusted the screen in place, however, that moment the messages were effectually cut off,” Olin said.

He invited several self-proclaimed mediums to test the apparatus, but no one was able to produce any messages when the screen was drawn and their vision was blocked, he said.

“This convinces me that practically all Ouija board messages are the result of causes far closer to this world than the realm of spirits,” he said.

Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.

Perhaps we might be better off if there were folk like James Randi in ancient times who could have debunked famous biblical characters promoting their particular cons.

To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.

The promise of the detrimental came much later than when talking boards first gained popularity. There use was for more respectable pursuits than later on when a simple board was developed and branded "Ouija" and one can trace the source of the demonizing to modern day Christianity, which had already misrepresented the image of Lucifer sufficiently, and this helped to promote the detrimental within societies influence by Christianity.

The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice.

You believe that the advice to kill such folk is "excellent advice"?

Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process.

If we took that advice, we would be far worse off than we are today, because we would not question the things which Christianity has told us are true, and those days of taking the word of con-artists armed with bibles is on the decrease as we place aside the superstitious ideas based in supernatural suppositions. It is human nature and ability which are natural and necessary, and folk like James Randi would not have been able to uncover the fraudulent practices of con-artist without that.

We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?

What good does it supposedly do when Christians claim to communicate with Jesus?

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38890&p=1076064#p1076064

William: FTL; Re: Does god have morals?

[Replying to Diogenes in post #108]

For some reason there is cultural-centric notion argued here many times by evangelicals that insists morality can only come from their God. This is just plain wrong, as I have just demonstrated.

What they do not easily see therein, is that this idea makes monkeys out of them, and they are determined to become gods.

The confusion caused is a response to the dilemma of God being within an Animal, at the same time god is within a Human - mostly because of the incredible chasm between the two positions of form.

It is the knowledge we are capable of collecting and the ability to use the knowledge any which way we want to, which causes the confusion, when it is aimed at the only god-like entity we know of and collective seem to have a love-hate relationship for/with.

It is as if we all resent the fact of the life we are within...whereas the Animals just get about getting on with it without all that fuss...

GM: https://wizardforums.com/threads/william-message-generation.647/page-9#post-7642

William: FTL;

William:Checking out WSB quotes - for example " Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer." I already have variants of this in my ComList.

Also it is apparent to me that ones 'mind' is vaster than we are led to believe...and that there are many levels of consciousness beyond our own, and that we are all connected mindfully in ways which we do not easily comprehend.

This system I am using can help the individual connect with the larger reality of the over-mind.

Rather than place the above WSB quote into my ComList, I prefer to post this and then get the link to the post and place that into my ComList, because it allows for even more scope than a single quote can offer - in relation to any future Generated Message which might include the link as part of the message being built.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1092361#p1092361

William: FTL; Re: What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...?

...
The impression re the storyline is that the knowledge of good and evil was what caused death. The assumption was that the fruit had the power to give one that knowledge, since they were warned not to eat it....

I think that is a wrong impression. I don't think the fruit itself caused anything. It was the act of eating it that had consequences. It could have been any fruit and it would have had the same effect, if there would be the same conditions of eating it.

In which case, there is no reason why Adam and Eve could not have been allowed to eat the fruit after they had shown their resistance to temptation.

The test was done, the results were in, and the fruit of the tree was not what caused the eventual death of the pair [according to the storyline itself].

I did not say that the fruit caused anything or argue that the fruit had something within it which gave one the ability to know/have knowledge of, good and evil.

It was a prop which YHWH used as a means to an end.
Since there was nothing intrinsically special about the fruit, there should be no reason why the fruit could not be eaten by the pair, after they had resisted the temptation.

It was a deception because - in the biblical telling of it - God [as yet unnamed] - implied to Adam that the fruit itself had the power to give Adam knowledge of good and evil.
YHWH planted a seed into Adams mind, which then germinated into the eventual disobeying of YHWH.

All along, YHWH would have known that any death incurred after Adam disobeyed YHWH, would not be because the of the fruit that had been eaten but rather, because YHWH would have denied Adam access to the fruit of the tree of life.

This begs the question:
___________________
Q: Why would YHWH create a being of nature and not instill that being with knowledge of good and evil, if indeed we agree that without morals, the human specie could not even get a foothold on the back of nature?
___________________
Remember too, that the reason for humans being created was so that they would multiply across the face of the Earth and subdue it.
Since this requires the ability to survive, and since the ability to survive requires knowledge of what is good and what is not [re the reason] it was imperative that Adam also know.

[imperative=of vital importance; crucial.]

[Answers may - nay - will, vary]

GM: "A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Central Purpose - QueenBee - Achievable Alternate Realities
Repudiate [refuse to accept; reject. deny the truth or validity of.]

Something can't come from nothing - Page 14 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Something can't come from nothing

Please demonstrate that your communications with 'It' are not just self-delusion.

Please demonstrate that it is just self-delusion. If you cannot do so, then your argument therein can be viewed as simply unsupported opinion and thus, invalid speculation, which can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...

So, basically your 'evidence' to support that all you contend is true consists of asking for evidence that demonstrates that it is not true.

I continue to provide evidence for those interested.
My comment - obviously enough I thought - had to do with your implying self-delusion. Do you have any evidence that I am self deluded?
Apparently not - as you responded with more woo-slinging

As I wrote...invalid speculation can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...please desist with such tactic as it adds nothing to the communication process re honest argument.

GM: Be Taught
The Brother
Disrupt Vortex Television
Extremely
The Garden of Eden
Unwilling Reaction
“Spread love everywhere you go. Let no one ever come to you without leaving happier.”
“Three worlds and three deep mysteries”
Light is information
The Way of the Shaman
Self-discipline

08:51
[189]
Acknowledge the Agreeable
I share your joy!
The Prime Directive
Making Things Easier
Links And Symbols
Shepherding Moons
Conscious Dreaming
What Shall We Call It?
Wish fulfillment

 

[William]

Be Taught 3

311222 [Self-Awareness Stuff Happens]

05:44 [Soul Group Energies]


GM: Share -share -share
Swords

William: 9 of Swords

The Nine of Swords shows a woman sitting up in her bed with her head in her hands. She appears to have been jolted awake from a terrible nightmare that has left her disturbed, scared and anxious. Nine swords hang on the dark wall behind her, representing the negative thoughts that weigh heavily on her mind. The base of the woman’s bed features a carving of one person defeating another, and roses and the outlines of astrological symbols adorn the quilt wrapped around her.

GM: Toward a Science of Consciousness
Creation Of A New Universe

How is there reality without God? - Page 15 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

"a term used to describe the psychological process of transitioning across boundaries and borders. The term “limen” comes from the Latin for threshold; it is literally the threshold separating one space from another. It is the place in the wall where people move from one room to another."

Agnosticism is a form of Liminalism, applicable only to The Question "Do we exist within a creation?" re the theistic and atheistic answers and subsequent arguments re said question.

Liminalism is not limited to pondering questions specific to theistic/atheistic interpretation of the mind in relation to matter. That is a huge advantage.
___________________________________________

GM: Clarity
Self-limitation

In The Beginning... - Page 13 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to The Tanager in post #127]

Hey William,

Our posts have started covering a whole bunch of ground. I’m attempting to streamline my response, but let me know if I’ve misunderstood or missed anything of importance. I saw these main areas:

Hey Tanager

Yes - it is often the case, we start out with short posts and this evolves into longer and more detailed ones.
That is why I was listing our agreements, so that these might provide a way in which to help direct our path of discussion.

We have both agreed that:
1: We exist within a creation.
2: Simulation Theory is a valid way to interpret the Biblical stories.
3: YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities.
4: The purpose of YVHV growing human personalities is so that these would potentially gain experience of the truth of the reason for their environment and their temporary experience within it.
5: It is an advantage to all grown personalities to be consciously and consistently connected with YVHV and thus understand and support YVHVs initiatives.

We parted company on;

6: We do not agree that human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.

I think this is different from whether Jesus influences people throughout the two thousand years since, however. I think He influences us from a constant, unchanging self. What changes is our understanding of things, not what He teaches.

I covered that when I wrote:

Historical scholarship is simply that. If we are to believe that Jesus has been active behind the scenes - in N.T. Wright's "Control Room" analogy, then we best not assume that the influence of that room is forever stuck in and dependent upon - that one frame of ancient history.

To expand on this understanding, What Jesus taught in no way contradicts the idea that we exist within a simulated reality.
As with YHVH, being the same/unchanging hasn't anything to do with how the authors of biblical script 'saw' YHVH and thus expressed their seeing in story form. Those stories are not "what YHVH teaches" but are expressions of inspiration by the authors who believed they were being taught by YHVH and their attempts to dress that in a language which could be understood by folk of their particular epoch.

That is why I wrote;

What is to say that if, what they did believe in was not true, that Jesus - knowing differently - wanted them to understand that their beliefs were in error?

You reply;

What changes is our understanding of things, not what He teaches.

I have been saying the same thing. So we cshould eventually be able to add that to our list of things we agree with.

Yes, like materialists, I believe spacetime is integral to our “base reality” but, unlike materialists, I believe it is only part of that base reality, not the whole story. That “spacetime is doomed,” for theists, doesn’t negate spacetime being part of base reality. Whether it will be a renewal of the present earth or a completely separate earth, that earth is still a spacetime.

This only serves to add credence to Simulation Theory Tanager.

"Spacetime is doomed" - as I wrote;

The statement which has been proved true, is that "Spacetime is Doomed." This is to say, that spacetime is NOT the base reality which materialists have insisted that it is.

I never said that spacetime is not PART of something greater, but that it is not the base reality itself.
Your argument up to this point has appeared to be different to that, indicated by your not wanting to agree with;

6: That human personalities - upon the death of their body-sets - move on to other experiences.

Clearly, biblical script [which I have given per your request] has it that Jesus say's differently from you on this point. That script has been offered by me for your comment.

You commented;

One example I gave was that supposed personal experiences of Jesus that contradict His historical teachings, should not be accepted as true.

Yet you offer up to this point, no scriptural evidence to support your assertion re the stories folk bring to the table re their NDE experiences, that those stories should be discarded as lies, hallucinations, honest mistakes, etc.

On the other hand, an argument that the experiences being told, are the result of folk being made aware of the actual unchanging state of YHVH, to which the bible cannot be counted as something which speaks on behalf of YHVH, but only as a reference to those telling the stories from the perspective of their place in the epoch they underwent.

Unfortunately, the bible in that light, is a closed off book - whereby at some point, men chose to seal it shut from the advancement of human/YHVH interaction, whilst declaring it a type of complete document and cutting off all future interactions between YHVH and humans, that are NOT exactly the same as those stories of more ancient folk, recorded in the bible.

This is perhaps the main reason for the struggle you are currently having with the idea of Simulation Theory and belief that the bible does not describe us existing within a reality simulation, and the struggle to accept the stories folk have to tell about their NDEs, as being witness to truth.

Who are we to limit what YHVH does or does not do, based upon the writings of more ancient men, who - if told of the things of our technologically advanced modern world - might also complain that such things told are lies, hallucinations, honest mistakes, blasphemy etc?

Do you believe that YHVH did not know the future of humanity or see it as humanity moving towards uncovering truth, and thus getting closer to the unchanging state in which YHVH resides?

As far as the views on the afterlife in Jesus’ time, I would commend this article to you to read: https://ntwrightpage.com/2016/07/12/jes ... n-origins/. The point in Revelation 21, I think, is about heaven coming to this earth, and renewing this earth. Yes, it’s a (re)new heaven and (re)new earth, but there is a continuity as well.

Honestly, it does not matter in the context of simulation theory Tanager.

If something changes, then it is not what it once was.

I recently asked otseng this:

William: Many Christians believe the bible tells it, that they will be resurrected to enjoy life in this universe forever...

How do you reconcile the eventual heat death of the universe, with such beliefs?

otseng: Everything will be reset

Your telling of it is the same as otseng, but what both of you fail to understand is that something which is changed, [ and graphically so] is not the same thing, but a different thing.

It may indeed have similarities, as you point out, and I have no argument re that, as simulating something naturally enough does have the quality of sameness, but in order to believe that one can withstand the natural tendency of a universe - like the one we currently occupy - to NOT be harmful to the forms we occupy [the human form] either those forms must change to accommodate, or the universe must change to accommodate, or both - the bottom line is that those changes must signify that we will not be existing in the same form and thus, Simulation Theory explains how those differences will be achieved.

New Heavens and New Earth mean that ST is involved in making it so.

Whether it is 'reset' or some other way in which this is achieved, ST is that which explains how such can be done.

Thus, my opinion on the matter of YHVH being unchangeable, is that YHVH is the fundamental reality and ANYTHING which changes HAS to be regarded as simulated.
[Which is why we are grown, as per agreement 3: "YVHV placed humans into this universe to grow personalities."]
Agreed?

I think it’s the same with Jesus’ resurrected body and our resurrected bodies. A car that gets an upgrade in engine, shocks, etc. is different than it was, but still the same vehicle. It’s got the same VIN, owned by the same person, etc. I think Jesus’ body (and ours) are like that. While it certainly changes, it’s still the same in a unified sense.

Your above can be regarded as semantics.
Agreed?

You also seem to be separating the soul from the personality. Am I right, there? Are you saying a “personality” is a temporary identification of a soul with a body in a particular environment? I would use soul and personality as synonyms.

I understand Soul as the breath of YHVH and thus unchangeable. It works with the personality which is changeable, as a means through which the personality can change - or "level up" to use Gaming terminology - and is integral to the personalities ability to experience anything.

While it is feasible that a personality can be deleted, and the soul connected with the personality to be integrated back into the unchanging completeness of YHVH, but this would be an extreme in that it would signify the personality is of absolutely no USE to YHVH.

Your understanding that the soul and the personality are synonymous [closely associated with or suggestive of something.] is understandable in that context, but they are not the exact same thing as one is grown [changeable] while the other is the other is complete.

3) What’s the balance of goodness and wickedness in the world?

You believe Jesus stated wickedness is greater than goodness in Matthew 24:37-39,

Please quote where I said I believed that.

Now, I originally answered the question about the balance of goodness and wickedness in the context of things right now. It sounds like you are focusing more on that balance at the “end” of the world. It’s possible that the balance there will be heavily on evil’s side, but I would need to think longer there to come to a conclusion.

My point was, that IF things are balanced NOW, in order for Jesus to return [as per Christian belief] things will have to deteriorate considerably, so that the impossibility of us being able to say NOW, as to the balance between good and evil, would become possible. That also would work the other way, but if things got better to the point where it became possible to make the call, YHVH would have no need to order Jesus to return.

In line with this thinking, is the idea of Jesus and the Control Room you mentioned. IF Jesus has been active in that regard, THEN we should be able to say confidently that things are getting better.

Ultimately, I think the Bible doesn’t focus on balancing good and evil, but eliminating all evil coupled with patience for those who are perishing in their evil, in hopes that they will seek escape through the Messiah. But, at some point, time will be up and evil will be wiped out.

Given YHVH is the biblically the bringer of both good and evil, this wiping out [deleting] signifies a change in YHVH, which does not align with the idea that YHVH is complete/unchangeable so that line of reasoning can be abandoned and explanation for concepts of good and evil has to derive in the personalities being grown and their lack of understanding and confusion deriving from their concepts of good and evil.

The concepts themselves require change, and perhaps this is what is meant by evil being deleted. The personalities change as the concepts change/the concepts change as the personalities change.

Having the belief that soul and personality are the same, makes the change - impossible, as far as I can tell, because the individual has no helper to activate said change, being in a position where trust in ones personality ["soul" in your regard] can be subject to those things you mentioned - hallucination, lies, et al.

Or as Bob Dylan wrote in a song;

Preacher was talking there's a sermon he gave
He said every man's conscience is vile and depraved
You cannot depend on it to be your guide
When it's you who must keep it satisfied

Soul - as an aspect of unchangeable YHVH - independent helper of the growing/changing personality, allows one to trust in something greater than oneself.

[this also eludes to another private conversation we are having re the GMs]

Agreed?
So far, I have seen no clear reason from you as to why that wouldn't be the case, that you should remain in disagreement with me...

My hope is that we can come to agreement and move on along the same path of discussion...

GM:

[The History Of Earth's Five Mass Extinction Events [4K] | The Next Great Extinction Event ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jsj7K6E0Fg [RTS=10:05]
GM: Radical acceptance
Even so, I have full appreciation for your efforts, because even incorrect peer review is better than indifference.
Be Taught
Interactive
Share -share -share
Learned
Action
Do A=1
Brother, where Art Thou?
Feel your feelings
The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us
Makes Candles Look Gathered

William: Brother, where Art Thou? Feel your feelings The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us Makes Candles Look Gathered = 1060
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things. = 1060


GM: Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self Spacetime is not fundamental
Brotherhood Of Souls
Encounters Challenge Boundaries
Reality
Creative
Loving

William: Reality is Creative and Loving = 299
Related phrases to The Subject = 299

This GM ties in well with the current interaction I am having with Theophile.
Re: Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story


06:26
[226]
Soul Group Energies
Trust the process
Deliberate and important
Attitude of gratitude
The Father - in The Mother.

 

[William]

Be Taught 4

040123 [Optimized for Fitness Pay-offs]

15:05 [In William’s Room]


GM: Neuralink
Far Out! Shucks! Explain!
Life in Heaven- Guiding Us On Earth
'The Dream Team'
Fast
The blurry line of the neutral zone
Music
As well as that pot of gold...
Remove the phenomena and apply science
Verbatim
https://debatingchristianity.com/fo...eeing....-,First Things First,-[Closer to The [First Things First]

William: FTL;
[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #10]

If you read what is taking place and try and put yourself in Adam's place, then perhaps because you and I would cast blame off of ourselves, doesn't mean that this is the correct way to understand what we read in the scriptures. The scriptures do not record whatever has entered into the minds of men to speak, but they spoke as they were moved to speak and God recorded exactly that which he wanted to place within his word. This is why ALL of scripture is God breathed, meaning it came from the mouth of God.

That is debatable as "God-Breathed" could simply be referring to someone being inspired by their subjective relationship with a great mind they think of through the limitation of their own mind, and thus express imagery through the belief filters of their own minds.

This would signify that what anyone writes about such relationship their telling of it will be tainted with misunderstanding - especially if they themselves had the need to make their invisible friend more visible with dress-ups.

All theistic stories about the gods are more ancient than the discovery of writting, even as ancient as humans learning how to control fire - so this word was breathed through a different medium and kept alive and along with that natural process - many filters of human interaction with IT would have distorted the nature of the Thing that IT - fundamental - was/is - as if IT speaks for ITSelf through the prisms of human minds - as if IT would appear to be happy with what IT is being dressed up in...but how do we know, because to claim IT is happy with the arrangements, is dressing it up to look like that might be the case...

Is IT "God-Breathing" because it does not KNOW what IT is, and that is what the Tetragrammaton represents? [I AM "Whatever you want me to be"]

On one level, sure! Why not?

But on other levels, perhaps IT knows exactly what IT is and is open to the possibility that Individual Human Beings might possibly cease trying to dress IT up and cease believing in the stories which dressed IT up and start paying attention...

First - one has to be aware that we exist within a creation and discover the way which will show one that this is most likely the case.
Second - after First - one has to figure out the best ways in which one can assist the Creator in transmitting ITs "Word" on ITSelf even if that means IT has to undress and get naked so as we can get a better look at what IT is we aren't seeing....

First Things First
[Closer to The Source
Who woulda thought!]

If one continues to view GOD through the dressings of a book, then the focus/worship is on the costume and not what resides underneath the costume...one will never get to first base going in that direction...

GM: Be Taught

Generating Messages - Page 11 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

GM: The God
Entheogen [psychoactive substances that induce alterations in perception, mood, consciousness, cognition, or behavior for the purposes of engendering ...] [Engender - cause or give rise to (a feeling, situation, or condition).]
Stuff/things a complex and tricky undertaking...
The Dreamer dreams the dreamed and the dreamed think the dream is real

William: This is what I am presently talking about with Theophile
Re: Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story

In that sense, while ST cannot be discarded, it still would have to adjust accordingly to be seen as the process which occurs re each unfolding, and each process is the product of the Mind which all this must be happening within, which produces the realities experienced.

GM: The Main Points on the Agenda
Little Pointers Are Signposts
Cunning
Express your feelings
End Of Chapter

Generating Messages - Page 22 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FLT;

William: There is a lot to unpack here.
Learning to be conscious of the unconscious so that one may then recognize various impulses and where these originate from.
In a sense, this is the science of the mind I am attempting to explain to Sherlock. Things may indeed appear to be so mystical as to be of another universe entirely...and are thus given the title of being a Miracle...

GM: The Wisdom of Foresight

[Bob Dylan - Death Is Not the End (Official Audio)] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=uD4jHDvNB80

William: Being prepared to accept that when the body dies, there is more to experience...

GM: There is a way to link all these seeming contradictions - so that coherent explanation brings these together...
All of life
That is the thing - once behavioural adjustments are instigated, the idea of existing within a suppression matrix becomes moot...it no longer matters where one is - it only matters what one is...so the adjustments have everything to do with self-identification...knowing who one actually is at ones core-identity...
Self-talk Root of all evil
Regimented

William: In that, if one is going to be genuinely unpleasant in ones internalizing, this will become apparent in ones external reality...evil is as evil does - which is a human thing...as per the discussion between Theophile and I re ST, ET and CT...

I don't think we're far apart. The issue as I see it is that you would subsume CT into ST whereas I feel that CT provides a distinct and necessary stage for ST to become a possibility in the first place, and that this is the stage we should assume we are in and focus our attention on. i.e., that such a God as ST proposes does not yet exist and that this world is not yet a simulation... We should think and act as if such a state has yet to be achieved, even if it already has.

While I understand your reservations, I think that to have a CT theory based upon the idea that The Mind grew out of the Creation and thus - is not directly responsible for the suffering one experiences by those inside said Creation, one is agreeing with the idea of The Problem of Evil, which your particular CT deals with, and which ET also deals with - neither of which, may be the best way to deal with said 'problem'.

The thing I ask is whether this "problem" has actually been established as real or imagined and if not real, then it is an unnecessary layer to be adding - unnecessary baggage - and thus not appropriate to being attached to any theory, including CT and therefore doesn't belong on the table of this discussion.

{SOURCE}

GM: Epoché ["suspension of judgment" but also as "withholding of assent"]
The Visitation Event Heuristic Fearlessness Decisive
Be Taught

Generating Messages - Page 35 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William:

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089611#p1089611

William: FTL;

So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?

I think it is a case of the evolution of Human ethics and some being quicker at changing than others.
Add to that the religious finger-pointing, those who offend from such positions are naturally regarded as the worst, and it looks worse for that, than when committed by other groups who are not preaching the same sermon, or any sermon at all.

Once upon a time Humans behaved in such ways as a matter of nature - much like dolphins are seen to commit rape but are not seen to be sinning therein.

Incest was normal once.

The changes have come about through identifying actions which damage others, and seeking to do something about that.

Rape, slavery, incest, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abuses are slowly identified and laws enacted in order to curb the practices - some learn faster than others.

Some Christians argue that those Christians who practice such things are not really Christians at all, citing the words of Jesus as evidence.

Others argue that the words of Jesus being bound within the Bible alongside the words of rapists, slavers, incestual, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abusers and that Jesus himself being reported to have caused physical distress to stall-holders in the temple and olive trees, aren't helpful to the process of learning to identify actions which damage others, and seeking to do something to cease with that type of behaviour.

And if we regard the current warnings about climate change and heading for a possible extinction event - this time caused by humans - we might understand that none of us have the moral high-ground, regardless of what position we hold on matters of God and stuff like that.

Perhaps too much judging and not enough doing [hypocrisy] will be the source-reason for our own extinction?

GM: Simulation
Counsel

GM: Can You Imagine...
'Developing a thick skin'
Charity
Stuff/things a complex and tricky undertaking...

William: Without doubt - there is much to learn...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085464#p1085464

William: FTL;Re: If you were Satan....

Meantime, a Personal Signature does the trick.

Aside from a Personal Signature, there isn't anything I can think of which would fit the script.
If it is a tattoo of some sort and everyone who accepts, has the same tattoo, it would act in the same way a Personal Signature currently acts - as in - grants access to the marketplace...

Questions re that;

Q: If Satan is sitting back - can he still achieve what was prophesied or...

Q: ...Would Satan have to relinquish the prophesized power part along with the prophesized prestige part?

The reason I ask is because, while the OP is focused on Satan thwarting Father YWHW [and Son] by not going along with the prophecy, there may still be parts Satan can accomplish without having to play the role totally.

Q: Behind the scenes, what would Satan be planning, and...

Q: ...is there any evidence we know of in today's world which might infer deviousness behind those scenes?

Because, if there is - [or it could be] - then Humans could effectively be tricked into thinking that - because prophesy is not happening the way folk separately interpret the prophecy should happen - that there is no Satan or Father YHWH [and Son] and go along never suspecting that they were serving Satan.

Q: Can Satan deceive the world and thwart prophesy at the same time?
Q: Is Satan more intelligent than Humans?

_________________ But wait! There's more! _________________

All this speculation about Satan thwarting Father YHWH assumes that Satan is more intelligent than Father YHWH.
Those whom assume such are basically showing the allegiance of their will to worship Satan's intelligence.
Perhaps that is the Mark of The Beast.
[Loyalty or commitment to a superior or to a group or cause.]

[An attitude of the individuals mind which is altogether shared by millions of like-minded $itizens.]

To think that Satan can outsmart the Elder - The Father YHWH - is a fallacy in relation to biblical narrative.
That is to say,
IF one has to go outside of biblical narrative whilst arguing against biblical narrative
THEN one is ignoring biblical narrative on the one hand whilst on the other holding ones interpretation of it up as the interpretation to assume.

Such muddies the waters for all except those who have already noticed what is beneath the surface...

GM: Perpetual

15:58
[167]
The Akashic Records
Do Not Worry
Majestic Twelve
All systems go
Got The Picture
Unus Mundus
Realm of Remembrance
Faith-based thinking
Ooky Spooky
True Colours
The Forerunner
Your Best Self

 

[William]

Be Taught 5

050123
"The Queen died peacefully at Balmoral..."
The Shifting Models of Existence
A complex and tricky undertaking...
Spacetime doesn’t really exist
A: To grow Human Personalities.
A life sentence ending in a death sentence

08:20
In the biblical telling of it
My alarm bells are ringing
The Judgement Algorithm
For the benefit of all beings
Stop. Listen. Observe.
Penetrate The Bidden Zone
Imposed Appropriates
Independent Commitment
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Delightful Anticipation


GM: Sanctioned
The Master ColdFire Trick
Slaughter
In Out and All About
Under the breath words Context It Is Our Nature
In Human Form
Children of The Light
In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
Lift Your Gaze From The Fire
Be Taught
Brother

Concomitant Power [Concomitant - a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
Google
"Off you go to your quarters"

William:

You can use this word to mean "housing" generally, although it's most common for soldiers and servants to live in quarters.

GM: The Twelve Disciples
"When we hear words spoken, we hear them. When we read words written, we also hear them."
Indication
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" = An Opportunity To Commune
Better The Devil You Know
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
James (WingMakers)

International Skeptics Forum

Join the International Skeptics Forum to discuss and promote critical thinking across the planet.

www.internationalskeptics.com

William: FTL;

IF:
There is a Cosmic Mind
THEN:
Eventually, any species which survives long enough to continue along with the unfolding universe will eventually discover that and invent ways in which to engage.

GM:Peaceful Messiah

God Must Exist: Infinite Regression is Impossible - Page 70 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

Something "outside of GOD" contradicts "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new does not contradict "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new "outside of GOD", does.

[Replying to The Tanager in post #693]

It would be a contradiction if I was talking about them both being true at the same moment, but I’m not. “No outside of GOD prior to creation” and “outside of GOD at/after creation” are not logical contradictions.

No matter how you word it or what context you build around it, 'outside of GOD' contradicts 'there is no outside of GOD'.

Adding the mind-construct of 'time' does not make a contradiction a non-contradiction.

Another way of looking at it, is that GOD is Omni-present - specifically "always in the now of every 'moment' - never absent - never outside of anything and everything never outside of GOD."

There is no contradiction in referring to "No outside of GOD" unless one attempts in inject the idea that there actually is an outside of GOD. One is real and the other is human invention attempting to superimpose the false upon the real.
Saying 'both';

Tanager: It would be a contradiction if I was talking about them both being true at the same moment...
is relying upon unsupported assumption as;

There are no 'both'. There is only One.

If one does a little study on the Set one will discover that the infinite progression can be shown to run opposite [as infinite regression] which signifies that the point where the video begins is the same as the begin/end points which turn up throughout the eternally unfolding.

Can you share the reasoning that shows this?

Sure - when I come across the video I picked the info up from, I will. From memory, the person showed that by applying the Set formula for the negative numbers, one gets a mirror-image of the Set, 'going the other way'...having written that it occurred to me I could google something like "Mandelbrot Set negative equation" - there are articles on this you can view for yourself, if you make a similar worded search...

My statement has to do with our overall conversation here. Do you want to end this conversation because 'the existence of a creator' hasn't been supported or carry on re the question "Do we exist within a creation?"

When I wrote "we know that it was built from something that already existed" I was referring to Energy and QF [matter] and if these things fundamentally represent GOD [re theistic ideas about existing within a creation] then they may as well be be accepted by theists, in that attitude.

I don’t see any reason to believe your conditional here. Why should I believe that energy and matter fundamentally represent GOD?

I don't ask anyone to believe or not believe.

The fundamentals of this universe are Energy and Matter.

GOD - [if we do exist within a creation] has to be the mindful aspect of the Energy which forms the Matter into shapes [galaxies et merda] so has to be fundamental to the fundamentals - the 'Mind' aspect of the whole process.

If Energy and Matter engaging do not fundamentally represent GOD [re the question "Do we exist within a creation?"] what DOES?

What we can do is agree that the interaction between Energy and QF results in identifiable intelligent outcomes and take that as an indication that we may indeed be existing within a creation and therefore Energy and Matter may be intelligent, because they do not exist outside of GOD.

If all you are claiming is that it’s not logically impossible that GOD transformed (at least in part) into the material universe, then I agree.

The mindful construct itself is a vast rabbit hole of possibility, even if only an aspect of GOD was required for the event to take place.
What it all means - in context - is not something we can off-handedly 'agree' about. The complexities are simply too vast and unknown.

Being in the Natural Neutral position helps as it eliminates belief or lack of belief and simply accepts 'we don't know' while acknowledging that it is still worthwhile to - at least - attempt to find out...

Energy and QF refers to the nature of the universe, thus the "Natural" part.

Re the question "Do we exist within a creation?", one remains neutral until such a time as nature reveals for certain, either way, thus the "Neutral" part

I don’t see how that’s remaining neutral. There are three views:

1. Energy and spirit are distinct things
2. Energy and spirit are the same thing
3. I don’t know which is true

The third view is the neutral one.

Correct.

When the claim is "Energy and spirit are distinct things" I don't know.
When the claim is "Energy and spirit are the same thing" I don't know.

3: [I don’t know which is true] is not claim-based.

Re the question, "Do we exist within a creation?"

I extend curtesy to Theism by agreeing - for the sake discussion - that "Energy and spirit are the same thing" [2:] but do not extend that curtesy to contrary theist notions that "Energy and spirit are distinct things" [1:] if there is no established logic involved in doing so.

Thus 1:+ 3: = the less cluttered way forward, with that addition;

3: I don’t know which is true so will go with 2: "Energy and spirit are the same thing", until a more logical alternate presents itself - [which 1: does not achieve, at least in its current format.]

GM: https://www.ted.com/talks/debra_lam..._an_insiders_guide_to_auditory_hallucinations FTL;

Hearing Voices : an Insiders Guide to Auditory Hallucinations
Debra's story of living with voices is a journey into the soul. Describing her experiences, we start to understand, and are able to better support those human beings living with loud heads. Debra is project manager for the Psychological Interventions for Enduring Mental Illness Project at the Auckland District Health Board (ADHB). In this unique and innovative position Debra works in the clinical setting leading the development of psychological strategies for positive symptoms of psychosis and the first non-clinician to do so. She is also a senior tutor with the Centre for Mental Health Research and Policy Development at the University of Auckland.

GM: Controlled
Knowing
Welcoming
One Day
Be Taught
The Cherubim
Heart chakra
The Mark of The Beast
Throwing Down The Gauntlet
May The Spirit of The Earth Bless You
Dohrman Prophecy Book Introduction

The Biblical God's conduct and culpability - Page 14 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL

Theism - by nature - is the human consciousness within the animal, reaching out to other possible conclusions regarding the human situation.

Most NDE stories have a shared thread through the telling. NDEs have likely been around as long as human beings and probably factor in a good percentage of why theistic thinking evolved alongside human development and understanding of the self.

What most folk tend to experience with NDE has to do with observing their bodies from another perspective and in that, the body is seen objectively and not identified by the person as being who they are.

NDEs often allow for a person to understand themselves as something other than the body - a difficult thing to achieve from the perspective of consistently experiencing life from the perspective of being the body, which is why folk tend to self-identify as the body - especially those who believe that their consciousness is an emergent property of the brain and have never experienced anything else which might go a long way in convincing them otherwise.

There is no doubt that the human body is biological and in the animal class as per human categorizations.

But there is doubt as to whether such is the true nature of human consciousness, or for that matter, that animal consciousness in general is truly/only animal in character.

Tying that in with the OPQ...is the Biblical God's conduct of breathing life into [making conscious] the human animal form, something which requires blame?

To me, it seems to boil down [yet again] to the mirror-mirror mentality. If we attribute evil to nature, then the one who created nature can only be seen as evil. Same goes for good.
Since, generally, folk appear to attribute both good and evil as aspects of nature, we are confronted with the peculiarity of apparent contradiction, which isn't helpful.

It does appear that most folk cannot get their heads around it.

Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

GM: The Theory of Everything A lot of information which has the potential to come to the fore.
The United Nations
Opinions are like Mirrors
Without Comparison
Different ways of supporting the same objective.
The Story of Caliban
The Mind is The Invisible Garage Dragon


08:33
Slowly and Surely
Suppressing Border
All is fair in love and war
Illuminate Listening
Holographic Universe
Tell Your Story
Create Your Own UFO
How to Bruise a Ghost
“Mother Earth Harmony”
The House of Politics
Counterintuitive
Possibility waves
Love - Communicate Love
An appropriate analogy

 

[William]

Faith - 1
060123 [All publicity is good publicity]

AP= Mission Underdetermination = 307


[307]
[The vessel of argument sinks
Behind The Veil You Are All Loveable...
Into a time that we've all seen on
Mission Underdetermination
Simulated for the purpose of?
Over days of forgotten tales
True happiness Awake Be here now
Within ones grasp of influence]


05:59 [Hard Nosed Skeptics]


GM: A safe pair of hands
The Nature of That Place
Don't let schooling interfere with your education

[42:31] [Combatting Anti-Science with Richard Dawkins and Neil deGrasse Tyson]

William: FTL;

If you can't appreciate the universe in which you live, the life in which you are a part, the cells of which you're made - these are so important - so beautiful and elegant, and wonderful...

I think that without understand that we are Spirit within Form, and understanding scientific discovery in that manner, the wonder, beauty and elegance of this existence is less appreciated than it could otherwise be.

GM:What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others Rest When Weary Making friends with your mind Amidst a tangled web
The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism
"Until ganna be gets here, its all just ganna be forever"
Pusillanimous [- showing a lack of courage or determination; timid.]
Those who need to complain
Serendipity

Journal - William Message Generation

Goat: What do you mean by creation? William: The Physical Universe aka "Reality" aka "what we exist in". Is it a "Creation" - implying the mindfulness of a "creator". or is it a mindless accident from out of nowhere - implying magic. Transponder: It doesn't imply magic, it implies natural...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL;

Journal - William Message Generation

Goat: What do you mean by creation? William: The Physical Universe aka "Reality" aka "what we exist in". Is it a "Creation" - implying the mindfulness of a "creator". or is it a mindless accident from out of nowhere - implying magic. Transponder: It doesn't imply magic, it implies natural...

wizardforums.com

GM: Faith
Sovereignty
Zen
Ethical Transhumanism
Science
You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know
Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]

Opening ourselves to real love and intimacy
Translucent [allowing light, but not detailed shapes, to pass through; semi-transparent.]
Any Other Way.
Categorising Knowledge in Terms of 'Good' or 'Evil'
Ugly is just "in the eye of the beholder" as is Beauty.
What matters most

[OLIN Technology - One Language Intelligent Network] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=XHXM9uPiyZg&t=14s


William: FTL;

OLIN Technology Intelligent networks are able to operate from a single language with translation interfaces that enable global intercourse. This means language is no longer a barrier to communication. Intelligent networks will introduce a meta-language that translates both real-time written and spoken applications. It will revolutionize the genetic mind’s global construct, and facilitate the digitalization of your global economy.

There will be many within the Hierarchy, who will object vehemently to the notion of a global, digital economy, but we will tell you, it will happen regardless of the complaints and registered concerns. Your most powerful banks, computer manufacturers, and software companies will merge to create this momentous technology, and the One Language Intelligent Network (OLIN) will become the standard operating system of all the world’s computer-based systems.

This will not occur until the year 2008, so it is some time before you will encounter this globalization of your economy, but all the systems and architecture are already being designed and conceptualized in the minds of some of your brightest engineers and scientists. We assure you, this is not something to be feared, but rather embraced, and not because of the economic values, but because of the way the OLIN technology will facilitate the development of a global culture.

As the OLIN technology evolves, it will increasingly become subject to individual control. In other words, individuals will become inextricably linked into the network’s entertainment and educational applications, which will become globalized. No longer will global media companies publish for a geographical market. They will produce content for a global audience and each individual will define what and how it desires to be entertained or educated.

The OLIN technology will “know” the preferences and interests of every individual linked to its network, and by the year 2016, it will be more ubiquitous than telephones in the late twentieth century. Hence, individuals, and producers of content will control the network, and services will be the “slave” or reactionary force of the individual. Thus, the individual will need to define their entertainment and educational desires carefully, or the OLIN technology will deliver content that is undesirable.

We know this sounds obvious and trite, but it is profoundly different than the way entertainment and education are delivered in your world of the pre-OLIN technology. The time capsules that the WingMakers have left behind will act as a template to those who operate outside of the limiting force of the genetic mind, and desire to create content for the OLIN technology even before it exists. The time capsules will show how to do this and demonstrate how to create multi-dimensional content that carries its viewer-participant into new corridors of understanding and illumination.

This is how the genetic mind will fragment and become unable to exert a unified force upon the human instruments of terra-earth.

When it is in this condition it will yield to the transformation/mastership model of existence and form a synthesis with it. It will transform itself, and the genetic mind will become the leader of transformation for entities upon terra-earth instead of its barrier force.

William: Re The Genetic Mind...

The genetic mind is the equivalent of a universal belief system that penetrates, to varying degrees, the human instrument of all entities. In some, it immobilizes their ability to think original thoughts and feel original feelings. In most, it entrains their belief system to harmonize with the accepted belief systems of the Hierarchy. In a few, it exerts no significant force nor has any bearing on the development of their personal belief system.

There are those on terra-earth who are in training to be Sovereign Entities and are completely unaware of this training as well as their destiny. When they are able to become timeless and view the continuum of their lifestream, they will see the thread that has differentiated them as Sovereign Entities. They will understand how the hardships and supposed indifference of the universe were actually the catalysts for their emergence as designers of the new genetic mind.

The genetic mind is different from the subconscious or universal mind as it is sometimes referred to in your psychology texts, in that the genetic mind has a peculiar focus on the accumulated beliefs of all the people on a planet from its most distant past to its present time. These accumulated beliefs are actually manipulations of the Hierarchy, which imprint on the genetic mind in order to cast the boundaries of what is acceptable to believe.

So compelling is this manipulation and the boundaries that are imposed by the Hierarchy that virtually no one is aware of the manipulations of their beliefs. This is precisely why the WingMakers have interacted with your species from the very beginning. As culture bearers, we stretch your boundaries in the arena of science, art, and philosophy. We essentially expand the genetic mind’s “perimeter fence” and enable it to encompass a larger portion of the “land” known as Source Reality.

If we were to tell you about the fundamental misconceptions of your genetic mind, you would not believe us. You would most definitely—even your most accomplished spiritual leaders—find us in contempt of much that you hold true and reasonable. You would feel fear in the face of our expression of Source Reality because it would be so clear to you how you have squandered your divine natures in favor of the entrapment of the genetic mind.

We know this will seem like a judgment of your beliefs, and it is to some degree, but you must know this about your belief systems: they are largely disconnected from Source Reality. They are like threads of a web that have become disconnected from the “branches” of Source Reality by the “winds” of the Hierarchy. Source Reality is represented in your belief in unconditional love, but of all the dimensions of your belief systems, this is the one thread that is connected—through the genetic mind—to Source Reality. All the other dimensions are connected to the genetic mind and have no ongoing connection to Source Reality. The genetic mind, as an intermediary and reflection of Source Reality, is completely and utterly inept. This is all part of the primal blueprint that designs the evolutionary pathway of a species through time. The genetic mind acts as a buffer for the developing species to experience separation from Source Reality. In this way, the human instrument is appropriately entangled in time, space, and the illusions of a disempowered belief system.

These factors, as disorienting as they are to the entity, are precisely what attract the entity to terra-earth. There are very few planetary systems in the multiverse that provide a better sense of separation from Source Reality than that which is experienced on terra-earth. By amplifying the sense of separation, the entity can experience more fully the individuated essence that is unique and bears the resemblance of First Source as a Unique Being. This is what draws entities to this world to incarnate within a human instrument.

So the genetic mind is an enabling force to experience separation on the one hand, and a disabling force to understand the true characteristics of Source Reality on the other. This dichotomy, when understood, helps to disentangle the human instrument and its entity consciousness from the limiting aspects of the genetic mind and its principle author, the Hierarchy.

Over the next twenty years, the genetic mind will become increasingly fragmented and thus, vulnerable to modification. This will be an effect of the growing ubiquity of intelligent networks and artificial intelligence therein. The expanding interconnection of intelligent networks has a significant impact on the genetic mind because of the emergence of a global culture that accompanies the arrival of such technologies.

*“DNA is both a network within the individual body as well as a node within the species’ collective “body” or genetic mind.” {SOURCE}

GM: Presence
Large Simulation Machines
Delightful Anticipation
Self-limitation
I am not here to judge but to help sanction each individual

What is ' consciousness ' ? - Page 25 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL

[Replying to Diogenes in post #247]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

GM: Some
Awake Relationship Unity [Clean]
"It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same."
Especially
Faith
Brilliant

[1:12:03 ] [Asking a Theoretical Physicist About the Physics of Consciousness | Roger Penrose |] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9ys2j1ncg&t=2418s

The Big Bang was not the beginning...crazy and true at the same time...Conformally Invariant ... mass and frequency are equivalent

GM: Family
Got The Picture

William: I Think – Therefore – Who Do I Think I Am?
This moment is the perfect teacher
Mission Functional Clusters
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self
Brilliant Family Got The Picture
Data actual realistic communication


GM: Atheism is the ship, not the sailors
"Pixie Farts create Pixel parts"
The Great Green Wall
Even The Shadows
We have discussed
Reality: "Talk to The Razor"
Brother, where Art Thou?
Something you cannot change
Maneuver
Portal

06:31
[Subatomic Particles
The Nature of The Mind
Take care of yourself
Looking behind the veil
The Electron Augment
Mathematical problems
The fire from within
Odd Addiction Vortex
The Kindness of Sleep
Gateway Luminous]