Message Generation

[William]

An extra-terrestrial event - 3

301122 [Extra Sensory Perception
Solving Mathematical problems ]

07:17 [Ethical transhumanism]


GM: The Garden of Eden
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills
Heuristics [mental shortcuts that allows people to solve problems and make judgments quickly and efficiently. ]
Ghost In The Machine
Determination
It is all making sense
Please
Done and Dusted
Communications Device
Merging with the data
Unlimited Knowledge
Is quite congruous with Jung's ideas centering around individuation.
An extra-terrestrial event
Mythology
How about that
Contentment
Economic
Allowed
“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood”
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
Abiogenesis [the idea that life arose from nonlife more than 3.5 billion years ago on Earth]
All spun from the same Yarn

William: Yes. This has to do with what I wrote in reply to Tanager, today.

[Replying to The Tanager in post #201]

To me this say's that the Earth was constructed in that manner, to produce those things automatically as YHVH had programed it that way, and so that is how it happened.

In other words, the algorithms YHVH placed within the structure of the planet made it happen that way.

The same happens re the sea, as with the land.

I agree that YHVH set up the physical laws and the natures of material things.

The process isn’t repeated for humans. Yes, they are created, but there isn’t talk of “algorithms”; it’s not “let the earth bring forth man” or “YHVH made man according to his kind”.

It appears that the making of things at this stage is largely done through automation - through an automatic process - such as what we now know re the process of evolution.

The seed appears to have the code within it, to become the tree when the conditions are in place for it to do so. [The physical laws and the natures of material things.]

The process isn’t repeated for humans. Yes, they are created, but there isn’t talk of “algorithms”; it’s not “let the earth bring forth man” or “YHVH made man according to his kind”.

I am aligning the story with what is known about the process of evolution and the human form and all other life forms, coming from the Planet itself - created through that process. [Contrasted with the the more hands on approach YHVH took with the body set of Adam.]

And yes, as far as 'kind' goes, the algorithms did play a part in this sorting process, as humans split from main groups through their wandering, and these groups became cut off from one another and even largely forgotten about, so that when these groups eventually discover the existence of each other epochs later, there were clear distinctions which signaled "not of our kind".

So this idea of sorting things 'according to their kind', is sourced beyond the ancient.

Why are you calling this an instinct for humans? Do you mean that in contrast to rationality?

No. I mean in contrast to getting verbal instructions from a voice in one's head.
The instinct I speak of is more along the lines of how robots behave re coded assignment.

The program of what to do is already part of the body set makeup. There is no requirement to teach humans to multiply and to go forth and subdue. Nor is there a requirement for humans to understand that they are within a created thing, or to know that YHVH even exists.

With this first creation story, there is no mention of YHVH making the humans alive, by instilling within them The Breath of YHVH, and no logical reason for us to assume that this must have been the case, as far as I can tell.

In verse 30 we are told that every green plant has been given to “everything that has the breath of life”. This is the first mention of “breath of life”. Are you saying the text is teaching that only animals have the breath of life in them at this point and that humans don’t? If so, why aren’t humans included in this statement?

The KJV doesn't mention any breath - just life. Re your understanding of the beast which has life but not in the same way Adam had life, because Adam is not a beast, even that his form is made of the same type as the [other] animals

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

"Life" in this sense, isn't "The breath of YHVH".

We will have to examine this together in more detail because the KJV and some other versions, omit the "breath" part of life, whereas some other versions add this in.

With this first creation story, there is no mention of YHVH making the humans alive, specifically by instilling within them The Breath of YHVH, and no logical reason for us to assume that this must have been the case, especially since there was an epoch before ancient times where we know that the human being was more "beast" than "man".

All I can come up with by way of explanation is that YHVH changed the coding so that animals could eat each other and did so because it had something to do with YHVH's agenda.

In that, perhaps animals eating other animals somehow speed up the process, and also perhaps because Human Beings were wanderers, sometimes they wandered in areas where there was a scarcity of plant life, and this slowed them down.

These are just ideas which have some logic to them which could be considered.

But whatever the explanation might be, we know from the evidence, that YHVH did not inspire the author of the First Creation Story with any reasons for the change.

The text doesn’t say that the only thing animals could eat were plants. It’s not exhaustive or prescriptive. It may be a comment on how humans, in their ruling over the animals, shouldn’t only think of themselves in their treatment of the vegetation, as it is for the animals as well as the humans. This fits in well with YHVH's command for them to care for creation.

I currently agree, which is why I am pointing out contrasts between the two creation stories.

There are no specific 'commands' which even suggest that humans should not eat animals. The author has omitted that aspect of what humans eat [the meat of animals] choosing instead to focus mention only on vegetation as the thing eaten, even in contrast to what the author must have known at the time of writing, about human eating behaviors

Also to note, death is not mentioned, nor is anything said to be forbidden

Yes, if death occurs and if anything is forbidden is not addressed.

It is not addressed by the first creation account, but is addressed in the account of evolution. In that, eating other animals and what is forbidden and what is not, is decided by the critters themselves, [re their coding] rather than a voiced command from YHVH.
Evolution also shows us that death happened, as part of the nature of the coding - and one of the reasons why it was necessary to breed - because death happened...likewise why it was necessary to eat - because eating maintain being alive.

The question I ask about this contrast is related to YHVH allowing the codes to do their thing within the local environment and for eons letting the algorithms tick over without interfering too much, and even then, not obviously...

...and a decision made at some point in that process, where YHVH chose to make *Itself known to the human animal, and along with that, to tweak the coding through the relationship as a means for humans to learn to understand that they can change the coding of their instinct by overriding/re-writing it

[*I use the word in respect for the idea that YHVH is both "male and female" rather than one or the other]

GM: It is Found Within The Experience of Self
Encounters Challenge
The Real Spiritual
Sit Tight
The Beauty Of...
Instant
Penumbraa [indeterminate not exactly known, established, or defined.]

William: The Beauty Of... Instant Penumbraa = 316
[316]
The deranged can come about...become arranged.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster
The Beauty Of... Instant Penumbra
The Fog Is Lifting Water The Garden
Purposeful disinformation

GM: William's Tickling The Dragon's Tail Adds Up To

Christianity in your mind's eye - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Christianity in your mind's eye

[Replying to theophile in post #85]

I understand. Perhaps our debate would be better focused around the question: is living according to love the same as living under grace?

It is in terms of the law, if indeed the law was originally designed to teach humans how to love.

Given that the 10 became the 613 - and historical Jesus entering the scene where {I assume] the 613 were in operation as religious inserts biblical Jesus fosters a type of hostility for religious practices based upon those inserts...as if humans have interpreted the 10 with their own faulty reasoning.

Biblical Jesus sets the record straight - by saying not only are the 613 off the mark regarding an individuals relationship with The Father, but the 10 which triggered the invention of the 613 need to be reduced to the 3,2,1.

Which is strongly suggestive of we having to see things the other way - and it is by grace that this is accomplished...because grace lifts the otherwise impossible burden which religiosity has imposed upon the individual seeking sustained connection/communion with The Creator.

I do think Jesus uses love to open the law up to grace. To deconstruct it almost, or to open it up to its true intention.

I agree.

Also, you could have stopped me in my tracks with Paul's ode to love in 1 Corinthians 13: "If I give all I possess to the poor...but have not love, I gain nothing."

Does Paul's saying 'stop you in your tracks?'

Can Paul's saying be seen in the practice of modern day Philanthropy? Or would he have a problem with the rich NOT giving away every cent and becoming poor.
Is it possible that genuine giving while keeping oneself rich enough in money to be able to continue the practice throughout ones lifetime, is in keeping with grace and love?
Is such a person practicing this kind of giving because they are not under the law which would command every last cent must be handed over?

This has completely left interpretation behind and entered the realm of fabrication

Any scriptures to back it up?

Such a question as you have asked, is a sign that one is still under the law. "The Law" in this case, is the religiosity invoking the belief that all scripture must be taken literally [in this case - what biblical Jesus said to one individual] and forcing through the law - that all people are expected to do the same, because "Jesus commanded it" of one person - or 12 people - or thousands of people at the beginning of the movement.

I see that my interpretation is not 'under the law' in regard to that argument you present but that does not mean I am incorrect.

Scripture itself isn't about law but grace. In that, it inspires those under grace to renounce religiosity in order to experience a genuine relationship with The Father.

A genuine relationship with The Creator, is worth so much more than a relationship with a religious artifact, wouldn't you agree?

I tend to think that there is a far more subversive and radical 'economy' at play in the Kingdom than you lay out here (which I take to be some sort of beneficent capitalism). One that requires a radical trust in the world (/God) to provide.

I see no trust in this view.

My tendency is to see the potential for human beings to build the Kingdom of God on the planet, using what devices we have in order to do so.
My preference is to see this potential become a reality rather than have to witness Jesus' return 'in all his glory' and get about commanding humans to build said Kingdom [or however he would go about it] because - even given it may be better than letting human beings become extinct at their own hand - it would clearly show that humanity failed to realize its own potential and didn't mature enough to be able to do it for themselves.

Meantime, since Jesus hasn't returned yet, there is work to do for those who want to do it. Not trusting that view, means the work won't get done by those not trusting that view.

Balancing out the options available [even if they are in recognition of human potential] seems the wiser move, under the current circumstances.

Importantly - invest in the doing now rather than the faith in later - better to be caught investing in The Kingdom here on Earth if/when Jesus returns, than to be under the law which prevents one from doing.

Isn't that part of your complaint? There is not enough 'doing' going on?
So why point to the scriptures and imply that the scriptures themselves do not condone any actual doing of the sort of doing I am shining a light on?

So are we to allow ourselves to remain 'naturally selfish' in regard to 'strangers' or do what is humanly possible by rising above that mundane aspect of nature?
The question was what is hard about love, not whether we should pursue it nonetheless. Again, just because I personally fall short, doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

That is encouraging to read. For a moment there I was under the impression that you felt that since it was in your too hard basket, that it must have to be the same for everyone.

Even so, I would encourage you to meditate upon the idea that what is being asked of us all, is not as complex and out of reach as you appear to believe.

260
The Wholeness Navigator
Is Love that hard to know?
A riddle wrapped up in an enigma
[SOURCE]

GM: Without Comparison
OOBE
An extra-terrestrial event
Comprehend Embarrassing Advice
The problem of evil
The Human Interface
"I am an atheist in relation to anyone's interpretation of characterizations of any gods."

William: That relates to this;

I am interested in hearing more as to what your reasoning was in response to the atheists own reasoning that he could not believe in God because of evil and the pain and suffering in the world.

"The Problem of Evil" has been an issue for centuries.

Please tell me.

God is love. Love by its very nature must be shared, hence the reason why God created as living souls. Love is best when it is returned, so yes, He wants us to love Him in return. However love cannot be "forced" and remain love. So it would be impossible for God to create us "already loving". Certainly He could do that but that would never be true love. Love MUST be freely given. But it would be impossible to do that while we were still in the presence of God. Certainly we could have devotion and awe, but that is not love. In my mind I believe that this is the state of the angels who have not gone through the process of learning how to love, which is why I believe Scripture says that He created us to be "better than the angels.".

So, how do we learn to love? First of we had to be given the complete freedom to do any and all evil even though that leads away from God and love, because it is only when we are free to do evil that we are also free to reject that evil and do the good that leads towards God and love. You cannot have "good" without the possibility of "evil". This could not be in the direct presence of God as direct knowledge of Him would skew our free choices. Hence the reason for the creation of the physical realm and why we are only given "hints" of His existence.

Secondly we had to be given pain, suffering, toil and death. These were the "punishments" in the Bible which were given to Adam and Eve for their eating from "The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil". In other words we were given a conscience. In my mind this is the most important point of the Adam and Eve story be cause it essentially describes man becoming fully human when He was given a conscience. We no longer lived by instinct as other animal do; instead we are given the insatiable desire to seek the greater good (or the greater evil). This is what has led us from trees to the ground, from the ground to caves, to huts, to houses, to skyscrapers, and also led us from stones to spears, to arrows, to guns, and to thermonuclear weapons. Every decision we make is based on the conscience.... which way would it be better to turn? Right or left? So the existence of evil plays an extremely important part of human development.

What about pain, suffering, toil and death? When you think about it you will realize that is only through our personal experience of these, and how they hurt, either in ourselves of a member of our social circle, that we can learn compassion and sympathy for someone else experiencing the same thing. This starts only within our own social circle. But compassion and sympathy teach us to care about even those outside of our social circle. And it is caring about the stranger that leads us to true selfless love.

This whole thing came to my mind when I realized that the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" meant man being given a conscience. Everything else followed after that. I used to dismiss the A&E story as a simple story of creation, but now I see it as one of the most profound in all human literature because with thought it gives the reason for our existence, the reason for evil, the reason for pain, suffering and death, and what our goal should be in this physical realm.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1092932#p1092932

William: FTL; Re: Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism?

[Replying to historia in post #477]

Ah, interesting. I've been reliably informed that an atheist is someone who "lacks belief in God." But you're defining an atheist here as someone who thinks God's existence is unlikely. Before I comment further, do you want to change that definition?

This.
:applaud:


And worse, the confusion as to the definition of atheism, has even been said to be the fault of non-atheists. :!:

GM: Equal System
Hide and Seek
Open your chakras
Observing
Self-acceptance

07:35
["Better luck next time"
Consensus Realities
Name them as non-separate
Out of body experience
Word - String Values
Personal Integrity
Wise beyond my years ]

 

[William]

An extra-terrestrial event - 4

021222 [It is a slippery path of snake-oil.]


08:41 [Needs no explanation...]


GM: What is represented in the whole is the evolution of God within the structure of the physical Universe.
God/Source/Home Why is this a Requirement?
Deep Impact Event
Computer Coding
Sound
Who Knows
Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.
The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD
Teachings
It was at the time - still a work in progress.

[YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story! ] [ RTS=36:13] www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk

William: The section of video is expressing the difference between the priests of the non-Hebrew gods are pretending that tribute is demanded by their gods, but the tribute is really going to the priests, because the gods of the priests don't actually exist, whereas all tribute demanded by YHVH actual went to YHVH - thus YHVH took the tributes away from Israel and what was left was for Israel to use to further Herself.

GM: Warm Presence
Select
Central To The Vision


William: Okay - that is a request for me to do something with "Central To The Vision"...so I will copy and paste that into my ComList Journal [CLJ] document search tool, and select the 10 P&P line entries, as they present...I will shuffle the CLJ x10 using the online algorithm to do so...

Penetrate The Bidden Zone
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Builders
“No sailor controls the sea.”
Would you bow down to your father and call his actions caring?

Through The Woo
Desynchronized Mind Body Soul Ruling your world
Elementary Conclusion a belly full of laughs.
Who Knows What That Is Worth?
Central To The Vision
Atheist mischief making
Puerility
The Data of Demystification

WingMakers

wingmakers.com

(Do a Beginning and End)
Master Plan
Equal System
Identify oppressive structures...

Disingenuous

GM: An extra-terrestrial event
Unknown Symbol
The Secret
Eternal Loop
Conceivable
Either the creative force is one of intelligence or it isn't.
Do a Word Search
Gods Gift
The Respect One Gives and Receives
Author Known
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse

William: I have to say..."Desynchronized Mind Body Soul Ruling your world
Elementary Conclusion a belly full of laughs." has something to do with what I wrote today;

Re: In The Beginning...

____________________________
Notes Re YHVH
I feel to add as information to all who are reading this thread;

At the time that this thread was created [ by William » Sat Aug 27, 2022 11:54 pm] I understood the two creation stories as describing one thing, just as Tradition Christianity teaches it, and just as Tanager is arguing the same understanding, from that same source.

It is only in recent days - perhaps the last couple of weeks - that this communion between Tanager and myself has helped to trigger something inside my thinking process which has enabled me to realize that the two stories are two stories because they are expressing two different events which YHVH made to happen, and that conflating those two events can mislead the reader and all those who have been influence by the words of the overall story which developed - to that point of supporting it through the device of belief - however those beliefs then interpret everything else...

...in this I am extremely interested, because I see that in conflating the two stories, there is the possibility we are being misled.

In that, I am not trying to suggest any type of conspiratorial thing is taking place, but rather - the whole of humanity has duped itself in our collective consciousness - rather than being duped by some ruling elite humans, alien entities, garden voices [nice or nasty] religious texts, or scientific papers.

I have nothing but respect for Tanager, and consider our ongoing pursuit of building a genuine friendship between us to being "YHVH inspired" however anyone might interpret that, as being.

I think YHVH is watching this spot with interest. That is just my position on the matter, and I accept that I might be mistaken, but for now - have seen no reason as to why I should think otherwise.

On the subject of "YHVH" - I have been through many twists and turns in the last 40 years, and some of those turns had me deeply hating YHVH because in those times I was wrestling with notions that YHVH was a pretend "god" who was really an extraterrestrial who's specie had also evolved from the stuff and process of the universe...evolution...

And that this advanced species [The Elohim] where 'playing god' and influencing everything which happens on our planet, and wanting humans in specific to worship them - through that image of YHVH - and declare YHVH the creator of The whole Universe/everything which is the universe.

In that context, YHVH could not have created YHVH, so the alien god species was false, as they couldn't have both created themselves AND created the universe from which their species evolved...it was illogical.

Thus they were 'playing god' and imo were not playing GOD as a true creator-god of the universe, would/should play the role.

In that, I have spent the last 40 years coming to terms with the apparent contradiction, in order to come to understand that my notions of "how a true-creator god would 'play the role'" were placed under question;

Q: How I could possibly KNOW how a "true-creator god" would play such a role?

I don't know whether I should fell shame or relief for my blunder, but consider both emotions to being a potential stumbling block to what I now regard as a process I have been going through in order to come to a place where I can fully embrace YHVH, and heal that riff in my understanding.

Sincerely
Thank you for taking the time to read this.

____________________________

Re: (Do a Beginning and End) Master Plan I will take the last shuffle of the CLJ and work with that...
...it messages as the following;

Re Master Plan

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1090376#p1090376
Acceptance Idea Enlightenment A Perfect Event
Permanence
In Training For... "You don’t wanna cross that bridge - You don’t want the other side"
It Would Be Rude Not To
The Hologram of Deception The Mainstream Program
Start From Scratch
How to get this to happen on a planetary scale is the thing...
The idea would be for one to get knowledgeable with new information being presented and, in doing so, drop old concepts for new ones.
GOD became Gods and Goddesses.
Truth Without Proof Is Belief

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmRTC6xhis4
Soul Retrieval
Things Will Run Their Course
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBU6f2T3Www&t=456s www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBU6f2T3Www&t=456s
Connections
Observant
Black
Assuming a Creator of this world exists, in what way is said Creator hidden from us?
Never a dull moment
Howdy! The Butterfly Effect Music to my ears Lean into it

Generating Messages - Page 35 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

To Know
Liminal

How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant? - Page 107 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

“If you say so…” No. Even if I did not say so.
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...
The power of silence
Panpsychism
Elude Test the waters

Merged - Ideomotor Effect and the Subconscious / Beyond the Ideomotor Effect

I decided to create this thread in relation to my experiences using Ideomotor – principally the ‘Ouija effect’ which involves the use of a flat surface with symbols on it and a pointing device which used together create opportunity for communication between the conscious self and the...

www.internationalskeptics.com

Astral
The Data of Demystification...

William: To interrupt, I am only up to page 17 of a 109 page document.

Is it appropriate at this time to say "I get the picture"... ?



09:20
[We exist infinitely
The Spiritual Essence
Experiential Reality
The Dohrman Prophesy
The Stress of Unbelief
Put That On The List
Ethical transhumanism
The Freedom Of Friendship
Joining The Main Egregore
Makes Candles Look Gathered]

 

[William]

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: The Word and List Strings
The Neutral Zone
A projection of one’s subconscious
"The curating is done when I am taking my first baby steps and learning to say "dada" and "mama" and after uttering those sounds show -at least that I am able to do that - so the next level entry is made available to me, and I learn how to shape the sounds I can make, following codes which have been around since long before my own arrival on this planet, to what the data signifies, that is information I am interested in."
Intransigent [unwilling or refusing to change one's views or to agree about something.] Decisive An inappropriate analogy Taxonomic [concerned with the classification of things, especially organisms.]

Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism? - Page 41 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

[Replying to Tcg in post #402]

Oh, I thought you'd stopped participating. So since you're still here, any progress on these questions?

Atheism could mean either of two things yet you seem reticent to state which of these you mean:

1. Atheism is the lack of belief that gods exist and the lack of belief that gods don't exist.
2. Atheism is the lack of belief that gods exist and the presence of belief that gods don't exist.

As defined by you ("Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods") an atheist must be either 1. or 2. which are you?

Could it be I've hit a nerve here? it appears that no atheist so far wants to answer this question?

It appears to be because none can agree altogether.

From what I can gather so far, the "lack of belief" can be associated with having no knowledge of Theism/Theistic narratives and thus;

This appears to be main trunk, whilst the variants root off into directive specifics, and some of those sub-branches want Atheism to be "named" [defined] and aligned with their particular positions on the matter of "GOD".

That's where the confusion is begotten and on top of that, some atheists are complaining it is theists who muddy the waters by doing things like pretending not to understand and making things more difficult than they need to be - a clear case of projection, if ever there was.

[As always, this is my opinion on the evidence so far presented.]

My own understanding of Atheism is that it is "The Unconscious lack of belief in Gods" and things spiral out from that core position.

The conscious lack of belief in Gods derives from reaction to theistic narratives and becomes the driving force of opposition as it moves away from the core-meaning - becoming what I refer to collectively as "The Atheisms".

GM: Impermanent

Can you explain the doctrine of salvation better than the Bible?Bible does? - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: You create whatever experience you will have in the next phase based upon the type of personality you shaped your self into during this one.
[Replying to amortalman in post #68]

What you described is not Biblical, and we're discussing the Bible here. You are throwing oranges in my basket of apples.

Why would you argue that? Is there a coherent description about this in the Bible that you can point us to, showing clearly that you are correct?

What does your basket of apples say about how we will experience the next phase? How does the
doctrine of salvation in the Bible differ from my description?

What you said is not in the Bible. If you can show me in the Bible where it says that after we die we "experience the fruits of our own personality" then it is Biblical. Otherwise, it isn't Biblical and should not be introduced in this thread.

What are you expecting, something word for word? Are you saying that folk cannot and do not interpret the Bible differently and does not the OP make that observation in the complaint that the God didn't make things obvious or crystal clear about the doctrine of salvation?

Isn't that what this thread is about?

What does the Bible say about dealing with your own Demons?

The concept of demons is from the Bible. That's what I meant.

Yes. It is from a large number of religious literature as well. But how does that answer my question?
Q: What does the Bible say about dealing with your own Demons?

How do you think that fits in with the doctrine of salvation? Is salvation like being saved from your own demons? Something else?

If you want to discuss incoherence in humans and why God made us so, I suggest you start a new thread.

So you are not interested in putting the horse before the cart? Of what value [re the doctrine of salvation] is it to make a statement that implies the inability of humans to understand the doctrine coherently - as being a problem - without wanting to also try and reason the possible sources for the problem?

The Bible came through humans and was not dictated by any being as it was allowed to be presented as stories from hearsay about others claiming to be directly involved with the God.

As a result, we have a smorgasbord of stories which have passed through many different filters of individual beliefs and which sometimes lead to folk feeling it necessary to make threads such as this one, in which questions can be asked and answers might be given.

I am unconvinced that the answers I am giving are as irrelevant as you are making them out to be, so if you want to discuss this with me more, then ceasing with such hand-waving would be beneficial to that.

The confusion of languages at the tower of Babel was for a specific purpose so that mankind could not communicate and build a tower to heaven - as ridiculous as all that is. The point is, that odd little story is a far cry from your claim that the God character made humans incoherent.

Are you arguing that it is not Biblical enough for your tastes? Why argue that something which was once credited as one of the ways in which the God did things re Humans, is now somehow no longer relevant to discussion on the way that the God did things?
Given that the long ago confusion of languages is still an ongoing problem being worked out by Humans, why is that incident not related to explanations and interpretations re OP topic of Biblical concepts/doctrines?

I don't see what trust science is asking you to place in it.

If you jumped out of an airplane at 10,000 feet you would probably trust science to strap on a parachute before you leaped. Then you would have to trust the science again to pull the rip cord.

You are conflating science with industry. Industry is how science is applied and what you are saying is that you place your trust in industry. That in itself is unspectacular and doesn't cover anything outside of the realm of living and breathing here in this Experiential Reality. What has faith in industry got to do with the Biblical Doctrine of Salvation? [the main topic of the thread.]

Specific to the comment, I'm not going to assume that the mind exists in some supernatural realm unless science establishes it to a high degree of certainty.

What has science got to do with the OP Topic?
What does the Bible say about this [so-called] "supernatural" realm? What makes this realm unable to be scrutinized using science, and why is 'the mind' only subject to existing in one realm when the actual mind is not subject to having to do so at all?

GM: Amidst a tangled web What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others Rest When Weary Making friends with your mind

GM:

[How Did Humans Become Earth's Dominant Species?] [RTS = 25:04] www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJb5DrhzsI

AMI 1 Food for the brain...marking the beginning of agriculture..

GM: Yours
Quite
Reasons For Angry Energy -
Everything is a Message
Does not Correlation imply causation
♬You’ve been a rock - For so long now I can’t even count the years that you’ve been rolling Nothing can shock or bring you down There ain’t nothing you haven’t seen - Nothing you haven’t known♬
Through perseverance and commitment to the engagement, it slowly became apparent to Spirit that some of the things previously hidden from itself, required addressing.
The Antichrist is...a bad attitude against a good thing
Making Things Easier
The Realist:
The voice of knowledge
The vacuum of space might prevent sound from been heard, but it does not prevent the effects of sound from being seen.
https://wingmakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Zyanya_Chamber_5.jpg

 

[William]

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: Brave
In Cell 32 I Found Love In You
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1086461#p1086461 [William floats back into The Shadows...]

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #553]

If you have some scenario where the processes that unfolded on Earth after it formed 4.6 billion years ago depend on whether the universe came into existence naturally (eg. Big Bang, or other mechanism), or was created by a god, please describe how that works. You obviously think that is the case, so how about an example.

My overall point is that this does not matter as it is not an issue outside of theism and atheism. I myself simply mentioned it in answer to your own mentioning of it and think that one cannot give credence to the one and not the other.
re The Mechanisms - be they mindful or not - I would have to consider natural as it has never been explained to my why I would have to think one 'natural' and the other 'supernatural' - so either way it would be natural.

In that case, credence to either side on the issue of whether we exist within a creation or not, is very largely besides the point.

We do not know. We all can speculate, but we need to avoid making positive statements one way or the other.

It is - as you expressed - a case of giving up - waving the white flag on this particular issue.

I simply acknowledge that time is not a factor in the argument, no matter what length of time it takes for things to unfold. We certainly know that we are still within the birthing stage of something which is going to last a very long while - as measured in time - and putting horse before cart is the better option to adapt all 'round.

That is it really. I appreciate the effort you are making re your arguments. I just don't see that particular aspect as relevant and felt to say so.


I have said so, and wave my own white flag as I withdraw...

[William floats back into The Shadows...]

GM: On The Other Hand...
Nomenclature [the devising or choosing of names for things. the body or system of names used in a particular specialist field.. the term or terms applied to someone or something.]
Warm Presence Freeing the soul Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
Like Bonsai
Myopic [Short Sighted]
Yellow Light
Only
The Clear Eye Of Soul
Science & Spirituality

Generating Messages - Page 12 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

STEP 5: Completion
When you feel you are done, you can send appreciation to the Creator in that conceptual framework of infinity that you held earlier. Then, take the entire session and imagine it is compressed into something the size of a pea or small stone, and it is wisely placed within your pineal gland to be absorbed and transmitted.
Then dissolve the entire session by opening your eyes and declaring “It is done.” You do not hold any bias or outcome favoritism. You are neutral, as you step out of the session.

GM: Pride Annoy *GOD* Coming From QueenBee
Human Being
It's a plausible scenario.
All Is As It Should Be As It Changes Day To Day
Caught in their mischievous false opinions

[Austin Osman Spare - Chaos Magic] www.youtube.com/watch?v=3otTDrj9ZGQ

GM: The Clutter Of Comparison
Virtual Reality
Victim Vamp Energy Systems
The Knowledge Of The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence.
Infinite Quantum Zen
Life Carriers
Memorandum of Understanding
Who wouldn't want that, if it were there on offer?
Abiogenesis
Insidious Clumsy
Science and Spirituality
Support
Copenhagen Interpretation
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077049#p1077049

080522
One Language Intelligent Network

RSP= 1xSCL + pg dn + ↕

William: So - re Pareidolia - I was thinking about what had occurred the previous night. To explain to the reader, I was aware of this 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - and had asked for this to be removed, and the answer I received came in the form of the experience I wrote about in my previous post - to do with the 'dialing up and dialing down' of my conscious awareness of mind as both an exhilarating feeling of being capable of containing an awesome amount of experiential information as well as the dilapidating feeling of being encased in flesh to the point where the flesh was the dominant structure to which I felt barely able to function within.

The next morning I intuitively knew that whatever the experience was showing me, it had not, in any way, gotten rid of the 'dark side' aspect of my psyche - which I had specifically asked for...so what was it that the experience was showing me? The answer to that question unfolded in the events of the day ahead of me, starting with the old lady stopping to give me a ride and who just happened to have been travelling with a little bird in a cage, in the back seat of her car.

The second part of the story unfolded when the lady dropped me off and I hitched another ride with a young guy who was going to the city I was heading for.
On the way, in between chatting about things, the guy put on a CD and I continued wondering what my experience was meant to show me.

My thoughts were that perhaps what I thought of as my 'dark side' was as necessary to my self as that of my 'light side' and that the experience I had in answer to my request, was to show me this.
As I was thinking these thoughts, the CD started playing a song and the chorus had the words 'brother wolf and sister moon' and appeared to be coinciding with my thoughts - perhaps a type of pareidolia in itself...

Embrace the wind with both arms
Stop the clouds dead in sky
Hang your head no more
And beg no more
Brother wolf and sister moon
Your time has come
Brother wolf and sister moon
Your time has come

but the most startling quality of the immediate experience was - as I was thinking about the 'dark side/light side' aspects of psyche, and hearing the song, feeling quiet startled with the serendipity of that moment, I turned my attention to the landscape and was immediately impressed by a cloud formation in the distant hills, which had the unmistakable image of a huge eye looking directly at me.
That was definitely a case of pareidolia, and one of the many moments in my life experience which has had a defining role in the development of and direction toward which my personality would move forward within.

GM: Solidarity

William: Without doubt. The connect was not only into learning to form a better understanding and acceptance about my 'self' - but in how you showed yourself to being an integral part of that understanding and acceptance, through the synchronicity and serendipity correlated between my internal thoughts and my external reality - in the moment.

GM: https://wizardforums.com/threads/william-message-generation.647/post-6823

William: From the link;

No clue at how others use it, but for me the first step was looking in my memory where i could find a place to hook this topic on. For me that was the old david icke forum, as they had a blossoming topic like this. Way bigger then we have here. Then i put my intent on and our friend will.i.am starts using his randomizer and the texts starts flowing and making sense in the form of subconscious hints that make me smile. Since i needed a little smile in my life, im really glad william didnt listen to me growling at something new and just fed me..

GM: In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
The One GOD With Many Names
The bits will suffice.

William: The 'bits' in themselves are mind-blowing. The wind may indeed 'blow my tears away' but you reminding me of this event-string in this manner, brings tears - of gratitude among other emotions - what can I say, except "Thank You".

GM: To Warm Them up to The Truth

William: That too. It is a privilege to be able to share my own experience with the reader...

GM: "Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me"

William: "How about that"


10:23

[The Cult Brother Son Sister Moon] www.youtube.com/watch?v=35qJ0UdJjLo

GM: https://www.britannica.com/topic/agnosticism/Historical-antecedents-of-modern-agnosticism [Historical antecedents of modern agnosticism]
Feeling the complete engulfment of unconditional love

GM: Mystery Consensus Realities
Commendably Recommendable
Machine Learning
The Four Human Power Houses
Mahu Nahi
How
Entities of Particular Belief Systems
Different ways of supporting the same objective.

 

[William]

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: Something you cannot change
Opening Doors Easy To Find
Bread Sandwich
F2

4) In depth: Focus 2
The region of your Consciousness Continuum that I call Focus 2 is very interesting. Unlike Focus 1, 3 and 4, this area of your consciousness can only be experienced by you. It is an area of individual consensus reality that nobody else has access to apart from you.
Focus 2 of consciousness is the next area inwards, so to speak from F1. Now, anything that ever has, or ever will come about within Focus 1 originates within Focus 2 of consciousness. This is the area of a person’s imagination; it is where all ideas come about, all impressions, gut feelings, etc. Each and every manifestation that is brought into being within Focus 1 oC, absolutely all of it, every invention, every design, every piece of art of any description, etc. without exception originates within Focus 2 of consciousness.
Focus 2 oC is the place the olden day explorers termed the astral. It is perfectly possible to enter this area and engage in whatever belief construct you like in 3D. It’s the place where most of us do our dreaming. If a person develops a degree of lucidity while they are dreaming, then this is where they will have a lucid dream. If they purposely enact some kind of "projection technique" then they can often enter this region with certain expectations, which will pan out as an "astral projection" experience as opposed to a dream or lucid dream. But these actions are all essentially the same. All that changes is your level of awareness and your expectations.
The key fact about engaging with F2 is that all your belief constructs will be represented in front of you in glorious 3D! As F2 is divided into many, many areas which all hold different beliefs, thoughts, memories and experiences from your life, you can engage with these belief constructs as you wish.
There are tremendous joys to be had here. Myself, I love running through all my childhood memories, for example. Anything you ever felt, saw, experienced, etc., etc., in your life, you can “relive” again within Focus 2 and in stunning detail. Absolutely anything and everything your physical senses have ever experienced, and I mean that LITERALLY, is recorded by your senses and “stored” within Focus 2, plus all your dreams too. F2 is where you do your dreaming every night so you are actually well used to this area.
When engaging with F2 worlds, you will find that the characters there can be quite limited in their range of abilities. This is because they are constructs made by you. Dream characters are a typical example of these constructs. When you are in a dream state in F2, your awareness is usually pretty restricted anyway, usually to the scenario depicted, so you don't really notice. If you enter an F2 area while fully aware, you will soon notice something odd if you try to engage these characters in meaningful debate or try to get them to do something other than what they were doing. They come across as being a bit vague and not quite 'all there'. This is one of the BIGGEST differences between F2 and F3. Some people ask how I can tell the difference between F2 'dream' characters and real people in F3. Don't worry, You WILL be able to tell! People in F3 engage in a whole range of actions, communicate with you directly in meaningful dialogue and act in ways that you could not predict, just as they do in F1/physical. This will become obvious to you once you gain a bit of experience of F2 and F3 environments.
I should point out that although this is your own personal area and cannot be experienced directly by others, it is still possible for someone to communicate with somebody else in an F2 state (such as a dream for example - which is just F2 with restricted awareness). Someone else from outside, say F3, can try to communicate telepathically and this communication will hopefully manifest itself in the F2 experiencer's world, perhaps even as a representation of the communicator. With any luck, the communicator may even succeed in raising the F2 experiencer's awareness to an F3 state, resulting in full face to face contact. This can happen in a seamless manner and is another example of 'overlays' in action, in this case F2/F3. This is how it is possible for those who have 'passed over', to use the old terminology, to communicate via dreams with those still residing in the physical.
This is about as far as those olden-day inner explorers went. Some of them tried to venture “beyond” F2 but by and large they were captured by their superstitions when they came across the 3D Blackness or FZ area. Getting lost or getting mutilated by some monster hidden in the dark recesses of 'The Void' was a big thing in those days. The tales of which would be filed alongside all manner of other scary “facts”, such as, if a person travelled at more than 15mph their physical body would fall apart.
But these days the more forward-thinking practitioners realise this infamous Void of old is just an area of 3D Blackness situated between Focus 2 and Focus 3 of consciousness. To followers of the Monroe School, The Void is simply the 3D-Blackness at Focus 21. Simple as that. No superstitious nonsense getting in the way. Just place your Intent and away you go.
So when you “take off” into the 3D Blackness, you generally emerge within Focus 3 of consciousness, or what is becoming commonly known as the Transition Area, where you will come into contact with other people who are very real indeed, not just F2 'dream characters'. It is to F3 that we will turn our attention to next. {SOURCE}
________________________________________

GM: Source Codes
Poor Intransigence People [Intransigence [refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.]
Choice

Eternity - Page 11 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

[Replying to Difflugia in post #100]

I get where you're coming from, but at this point I can only say that you and I use the word "probably" to mean different things.

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

However, we have yet to get to the point where scientists intent on this future event they are invested in, will be allowed - as nature might have other plans...the race is on...will the planet heat up sufficiently to cause an extinction event? How will that impact on the plans of the scientists supporting Scientific Cosmology? DO they have a backup plan to offset an extinction event?

What does the 'math' tell them as a way of finding answers to those kinds of questions?

What does the 'math' tell them as a way of finding answers to those kinds of questions?

That you have composed one of a great many equally probable futures of which most don't include immortality, a Cosmic Mind, or a Large Simulation Machine.

Not sure why you thought that question was directed to you, or to the ideas of immortality, a Cosmic Mind, or a Large Simulation Machine.
The question I asked had to do with climate change and how will that impact on the plans of the scientists supporting Scientific Cosmology. Do they have a backup plan to offset an extinction event so that they can carry on with their plans of getting a foothold into space...?
Thus "What does the 'math' tell them as a way of finding answers to those kinds of questions?" which they must sure have to ask, if they have any hope in seeing their plan bear the kind of future that they are working on creating for themselves.

What I composed was a "most like scenario" of their space-faring agenda - based on best possible outcomes.

Sort of like - how 10.000 individuate minds combined their mind-power together in order to construct The JWST and get it to the position it currently is.
How this involved going through the variables of probable scenario's to which they could counter which could interfere with the overall desired result. [best possible scenario]

Such as "In the likelihood of 'this' happening, what can we do now to neutralize/minimize that in order to continue with seeing the project succeed?"

Of course, there are things to which the 10.000 cannot counter, should they happen - like a piece of space debris coincidently obliterating the telescope shortly after it unfurled and started to do the job it was sent out to do.

So my composed scenario was based upon everything working out perfectly for the future space-faring scientists, and the most likely things which would occur after they gained, not only a foot-hold in space, but also a controlling influence on the matter.

In that, there are no 'equally probable futures'.

My composed scenario was also based on Transhumanism, which we know is a science connected with the dream of space-faring all these scientists are working toward, which is why I included the idea of all the minds becoming One Mind, which was housed in machinery which it created for that purpose.

The idea of being able to know everything there is to know about the universe long before the universe itself fizzles out/becomes inert is realistic.

The idea of the "Space-Machine Scientist" creating a highly complex simulation in order to alleviate the boredom of being omniscient is also realistic.

So yes - I was offering what I think of as the most likely mid-to-end-game that will occur
should our current scientists get their way re their collective agenda, if everything panned out nicely and no pesky "space debris" upsetting their plans.

As too, the idea that they eventually also figuring out that there is an actual Cosmic Mind - I popped that in there on the premise that;

IF
There is an actual Cosmic Mind
THEN eventually such scientist will discover it.

GM: Positive Feedback
The Realm of Judgement
The Hierarchy
The Cat Drone
The Mother and The Father
Turning Order into Disorder
Politics
Be still
Fearful Imaginations
People seem to love to put order to chaos because that is only natural, as nature is not chaos.
Disrupt Vortex Television
In Love
Counterintuitive
Solemnly
Constructors and tasks

[Will Constructor Theory REWRITE Physics?] www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYc97J2MZIo
GM: Kind
Relationship True Colors On all fronts
Voice
Shut up you blithering fools! Can't you see you're dealing with a madman?
Child
Dirt
Honest attempts at scrubbing up In the Mind What matters most No "Reading Into It"
Living Forever In this Universe

The problem of evil - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

According to the current arguments;

The Problem of Evil is recognized as strictly human behavior within nature.
Social laws are enacted to direct the flow of this evil in order that the evil does not overtake human society and become an out of control problem, affecting nature itself.

Nature - in the mean time - is neither good nor evil so there is no problem re that.

Re that, IF nature is the product of a Creator-Mind [aka "GOD"] and IF nature is neither good nor evil THEN the supposed "Problem of Evil" is simply a product of human imagination...which is to say - is not a real interpretation of The Universe - even if The Universe was created.

A supposed Creator cannot be the reason for any evil. Thus, there exists - in reality - NO "Problem of Evil."

GM: Self-Awareness The two million year old mind that's in all of us. Stuff Happens

Are Religious Beliefs Delusional? - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

I just answered "[it is misleading] for the SAME reason that calling an aeroplane a handsaw is misleading"?

What's the reason? Why are you trying to turn this into a staring contest instead of answering a straightforward question about what you mean?

William's comments were insightful:

William: A "religious belief" has to do with the branch of Theism which attempts to Dress The Ghost - [dressing The Ghost through the use of imagery is an attempt to make The Ghost be seen.] which is what religion does with the idea of GOD...this itself stems from the idea that we exist within a creation, something which still hasn't been established.
Thus Theism - and the religious branch in particular, place the cart before the horse.

It isn't immediately obvious that when folk are yapping about "GOD" they are talking about a Ghost. Same as when folk yap about Spirits....

You insultingly dismissed them without explanation:

Sorry, but that's delusional, God and ghosts are entirely different things not the same.

You then went on to dismiss JoeyKnothead's observation that the Authorized Version refers to the Holy Ghost.

You haven't explained what the difference is in reference either to William's comment or the Authorized Version, only derisively hinted that it's self-explanatory. I suspect that you and William had slightly different meanings in mind for "ghost" such that both of your statements are true from a particular point of view. That happens sometimes, but when it's intentional, it's equivocation. Is it intentional? Is that why you don't want to define your terms? Are you concerned that someone might find a narrower word or phrase that's more accurate, but just as unflattering to theists? If not, why is it so important to you that we guess at what you're talking about?

 

[William]

Master Plan
[continued]

GM: Commitment
Natures noises are often calming, but always sleep with one eye open
The Idea of Worship - What Does It Mean
Side Splittingly Funny
"Here Am I Is Where I Ought Examining My Conscious Thought"
Confusion of War Get Comfortable Permanent

is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

[Re: is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair?]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Imaginative Realities
Dequeue [remove (an item of data awaiting processing) from a queue of such items.]
Victim/Vampire Energy Exchange
Reality: "Talk to The Razor"
Is Like...

God Must Exist: Infinite Regression is Impossible - Page 68 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

[Re: God Must Exist: Infinite Regression is Impossible]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #678]

How does there not being anything outside of GOD make it impossible for GOD to create something new that is outside of GOD?

I thought you agreed that there is no outside of GOD.

An infinite regression is logically impossible.

Not to GOD.

Why not? How can even GOD do the logically impossible?

How can it be logically possible for GOD to create anything outside of GODs self?
Furthermore, a simple code [The Mandelbrot Set] looped on itself produces a visual example of
- not only infinite regression but also infinite progression, so it is obviously not logically impossible.
More likely it is a case of being conceptionally difficult...but not logically impossible, as the Set gives us clear evidence of.

The idea of Creatio ex nihilo is exactly the same as the idea of Creation being built from something that already existed.
In other words, the thing that didn't exist before, was created from the stuff that has always existed.

That is not creatio ex nihilo at all. The ex nihilo expressly means that it wasn’t built from something that already existed.

But we know that it was built from something that already existed. GOD.

Theists would identify the energetic action as GOD [overall - regardless of religious undertones trying to superimpose their favored image of GOD onto the Energetic Action] and Thus we have Energy = GOD and QF [material] being another aspect of GOD [because there is nothing outside of or apart from GOD].

No, that’s you identifying what we identify as something different in such a way. I see no reason to believe your identification is accurate.

No. To be clear, I said "Theists" not "Theists who believe a particular image of GOD"
You have no apparent reason to believe my identification is inaccurate.

The answer of course, from the position of Theism, is "Yes - the Energy is intelligent."

Thus, "The Energy" is what theists refer to as "GOD."

Do you agree with my assessment?

I do not. If “Energy” is something distinct from its typical meaning, then it’s less confusing to call it something like “spirit”. I believe GOD is spirit. The spirit is intelligent. The energy that makes up our universe is not intelligent.

It is what it is. You are saying that energy is not the same as spirit, but clearly no attributes in both are different. One is just thought of devoid of intelligence while the other is thought of as not being devoid of intelligence.

Clearly, neither theist or atheist belief re that has proven itself, so the Natural-Neutral position is to understand that both/all labels re "Energy" and "Spirit" are speaking about the same thing, albeit, differently, depending upon the position one is speaking from.

Either the creative force is one of intelligence or it isn't.

GM: OOBE Target Technique
The Roles
Inveterate [having a particular habit, activity, or interest that is long-established and unlikely to change.]
Dualism merely expresses two sides of the same coin
Gematria [a Kabbalistic method of interpreting the Hebrew scriptures by computing the numerical value of words, based on the values of their constituent letters.]
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. A Bit Of Cat And Mouse Control
Spiritual bypassing
The Human Animal is a unique being, endowed with an instinctual capacity to heal and the intellectual spirit to harness this innate capacity.
"Off you go to your quarters"

 

[William]

An extra-terrestrial event - 5

091222 [Intelligence Without Wisdom]

06:29 [Group Hallucination]


GM: A Maze Game
Sit Tight
'The Dream Team'
Ghost is that which makes the movement of the physical into form and function
Productive This Besides Where are we getting our news from?
The Agreement List
Idealist
Let the facts speak for themselves
Unite humanity with a living new language One Day
Betterment

[8. The Gospel of Thomas] [RTS=20:36]

Once a personality -becomes fully integrated

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxi5-6LdSpE

GM: Fierce
Optimum Health
Do Not Panic

Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible - Page 20 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

This is an interesting argument.

I do not agree with premise 2 for the following reason. When we think a thought, more than one things happens simultaneously, namely, that we are aware of the thought and if we wish to have the thought. If we do not wish to have the thought, then we destroy it before it is apprehended. If we wish to have the thought, then we apprehend it.

Our choice is in what thoughts to have or not.

This is more clear to those who have some level of spiritual awareness. Yes, I know many will just reject that notion and that is fine. I accept it because I experience it.

This does not explain where thoughts derive, but only what we can do with them re "accept or reject."

The idea of "free will" is therefore limited to that aspect but has no bearing on the source of the thought itself.

For example. If thought is the product of the environment then free will is limited to what the environment dictates, and what the environment dictates is not outright subject to a humans free will.

GM: What Is Normal
♬ You can look me in the mirror - catch my eye and make me shiver Touch me where it hurts the most - right into the Ghost - in the Machine ♬
Clear your mind
An extra-terrestrial event
Personal Participation With The One
Separate Selfishness Shining
An Ancient Truthful Wisdom

William: Shining an ancient truthful wisdom = 370
[370]
The Ghost scared the hell out of itself
Accepting the truth stops the lion
How A Beautiful Song Source Reality


GM: What Is The Point? Sadness.
What is 'The Soul' and is it Immortal
Telepathy
Family
Co creation
Penumbraa [a peripheral or indeterminate area or group.]

Does god have morals? - Page 11 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Does god have morals?

[Replying to Diogenes in post #108]

For some reason there is cultural-centric notion argued here many times by evangelicals that insists morality can only come from their God. This is just plain wrong, as I have just demonstrated.

What they do not easily see therein, is that this idea makes monkeys out of them, and they are determined to become gods.

The confusion caused is a response to the dilemma of God being within an Animal, at the same time god is within a Human - mostly because of the incredible chasm between the two positions of form.

It is the knowledge we are capable of collecting and the ability to use the knowledge any which way we want to, which causes the confusion, when it is aimed at the only god-like entity we know of and collective seem to have a love-hate relationship for/with.

It is as if we all resent the fact of the life we are within...whereas the Animals just get about getting on with it without all that fuss...

GM: Preparation
A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
Exegesis [critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.]
Teach
Coming From QueenBee
Harmony
In The Mirror - Mirror Sense
A mixture of awe and dread
The "Oh My God" Particle
The Spiritual Essence
Even As An Elemental Principle
Love Yourself
One cannot experience the objective realty of the world directly
Intuit
Support

Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible - Page 30 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Why 'Free Will' is Logically Impossible

[Replying to Kylie in post #288]

So now you want me to prove there is something truly random?

Only if that is a claim you are making. Otherwise, I am happy to accept it as an unsupported statement.

If it is just an unsupported statement, then it does not have to tie in with the thread topic [free will] and I have no more interest if that is the case.

I don't understand how you can say that.

I have demonstrated that the existence of anything that is truly random will influence my free will.

I have also suggested a phenomenon which certainly appears to be truly random to our current understanding.

If you are going to suggest that radioactive decay is not truly random because there could be some underlying order which we are unaware of that makes it predictable, then you are reducing the idea of true randomness to an unfalsifiable claim, since no matter what is ever presented, you can say, "Ah, but we might find something tomorrow that shows that it's not truly random after all!"

What we have found already - and therefore need not wait for tomorrow - is that the universe, including your apparently absolute random decaying particles are not the fundamental reality of said universe and that matter doesn't really exist as anything other than something of 'the mind' and the math supports the concept because it is the math which is showing us that this is the case about that which we refer to as reality.

The universe is not fundamental reality.

Where does that place the concept of 'free will'? - That free will must be only as real as the universe, so free will is dependent upon mind + the matter being experienced, and in that, free will is not fundamental to the human experience but simply a device we can use within the limitations of said experience.

Where does that place the concept of 'Absolute true random'? It is simply a concept that humans assign to things which they have not discovered a way of accurately predicting and so is more an expression of ignorance than factuality.

GM: Fair Dinkum
Hacking through the subconscious
“Our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful part of us.”
Brahman
Spring Loaded

Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists? - Page 30 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists?

Reasonable people should consider any valid evidence whether they like it or not.

Precisely an aspect of the creed of Agnosticism, with the exception of 'valid' and 'like it or not' as this infers bias. Information is not filtered in that manner, by agnostics.

Reasonable people [agnostics] should consider any evidence. [ftfy]

GM: Try Gateway IQ
Trauma
Hostile
In The Correct Position
Provenance
An extra-terrestrial event

[Neuralink Reveals Insane Truth About Their A.I Brain Chip] www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ryCFASuaeE

GM: Unequal
The Fathers 'House - Mansions' - QueenBee - According to Complex Jesus
Whatever you do
Failure Wish
Seeing With The Eyes of Innocence
That's Powerful!
Do Not Worry
Unconscious
Charge
Ship Shape

William: "Do Not Worry Unconscious Charge Ship Shape"
That reminds me of a post I read earlier today;

Adrian: I think you really have something here - something potentially far more meaningful than a conventional OBE. By raising your awareness, or "focus" to the Astral level in this way, and being attached rather than detached as it were from the experience, I would think that it is far more objective and most importantly you can bring back full recall.

Frank: Yes, because there is no feeling of detachment from the physical-body it feels, in a sense, like one continuous process. So there isn't any great hole that your memories fall through (as they used to, with me, when I did things the old way).

Adrian: Question: Are you an observer from the "focus" perspective, or can you fully interact with the environment and the people there, e.g. your guide?

Frank: Yes, I can fully interact but, when listening to the CD, I curtail my actions as it's so easy to go off and forget I'm invoved in a training exercise. Sometimes I can't wait for the CD to finish whereupon I zip back to F10 and project freely.

Adrian: You should also find that you are not limited to the Astral. You should be able to raise your awareness to the Mental, Celestial and eventually Cosmic levels of consciousness, and the Astral will not seem the same again then.

Frank: I use the term "Astral" as a general term that, to me, describes any projection I may have. From one of your other posts. I now realise the true earthly meaning of the word. Thing is, all the "beings" I met on the Astral are just people at the end of the day.

My regular guide, Harath, for example, is not of this physical Earth. But he's a nice helpful guy who is trying to expand my (rather limited) mind. For which I am grateful.

Adrian: The thing with the Astral is that that the people there are the same as the people here, same attitudes, outlook, desires etc., except they are discarnate. That is one reason why they are still in the Astral of course, until they can rid themslves of the earthly materialism, passions and desires. Beyond the Astral the Spiritual knowledge available is incredible.

Another very real possibility for the Astral however is to contact the higher intelligences there who can impart some truly advanced knowledge. These intelligences are responsible for almost every aspect of the evolution of mankind, and have vast genuine knowldege between them. Also of course, there are the beings of the single elements who can impart vast knowledge regarding the element to which they belong.

Frank: Yes, you come across those people who are discarnate. In the sense that they had, and now do not have, a physical sheathe. But, along the line, you get to meet those who have never been incarnate on this physical Earth. It's kinda freaky at first, especially as they are just as curious about you; as you are curious about them.

{SOURCE}

GM: Strength/Strong
Eventually
Glad One Asked
'The Dream Team'
Phasing
Duty Calls
Machine Learning
An extra-terrestrial event
Soul Groups A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind
"Howdy!"


07:11
[Presence Telepathy
Your Thoughts
Dressing the Ghost
Don't forget The Mind
There is Life on Earth...
The sound of a Ghost
A belly full of laughs.
Two Sixty Nine
Making Up Stories
Genetic information
Selfless attitude
Breathe In Breathe Out
That is the truth.
Roller Coaster Ride
Quantum Jumping]

 

[William]

How to Bruise a Ghost - 1

101222 [Sovereign Integral Network]

SCLx + select last LE per shuffle
[Preamble]
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1100452#p1100452 - What degree of influence do they have on that Mind-Field? - Thel - Intelligent Consciousness - Embracing the shadow - The Freedom Of Friendship - https://www.dreamviews.com/science-...ages-numerical-word-values-2.html#post2245935 - Phenomenon - Encounters Challenge - Behavioural adjustments -


AP= [= Encounters Challenge Boundaries]
[309]
Who/What/When/Where/Why/How
Experiences that inform choices
You are not what you think
I am not here to judge but to help
Put the Teachings Into Practice
Encounters Challenge Boundaries
Making friends with your mind
Working Together With Love
The Round Stone Earth Mother
"Many choices within a Confine Set."
The Respect You Give and Receive

11:02 [Epigenetic Memories] [ Epigenetic= relating to or arising from]

How to Bruise a Ghost

GM: Tied To The Moon
Fifth Force
"I come from a dark place - it is so dark I can't even remember it"
Fury
Divine Purpose

William: Divine Purpose Fury = 243
[243]
Secular Science Projects
Intelligent Directions
Elementary Conclusion
Searching for the truth
Instant Manifestation
It Would Be Rude Not to
Central intelligence agency
Loops can be open or closed.
The Human Instrument
Divine Purpose Fury
Go Within and Find That Place

GM: Callum at the Campfire

William:

https://imgur.com/4XtZ6G3

GM: “If you say so…” "No. Even if I did not say so."
What matters most
“Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all” Grand Experiment
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills
Little Self
Sign
Compassion
Team Witch-Wizard

William: The Cosmic Mind shaping the universes unfolding
Little Self Compassion Sign Team Witch-Wizard
The Individuals Relationship With The Creator

GM: How to Bruise a Ghost
Residue Ness "The Cherubim Vibration"

William: The Cherubim Vibration = 222
[222]
Start where you are
The Cherubim Vibration
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self
The House of Culture
The Mother and The Father
This Is My Kind Of Fun
Snap Out Of It Already!

GM: "Natures noises are often calming, but always sleep with one eye open "
Keep an Eye On
Getting unstuck
Reason For Being
Child
Journey Communication is key Connect
♬No time left for a sentimental tune Wherever I've gone I have not left the room I am never too late I am never too soon♬

William: ♬No time to be tied to the moon...♬

GM: YVHV uses what YVHV will to get the message across...
The Human Instrument
Word-String Incentive



William: Growth...

GM: Trilemma

11:24 [Enjoy Progress]

 

[William]

How to Bruise a Ghost - 2

111222 [Human Brain-Consciousness]

05:52 [Mathematical problems]


GM: Your Dream – Alien faces projected in the sky
Illusion Algorithm
Couple

[This NASA Probe Just Accidentally Detected Something Huge Travelling Through The Orion Nebula]

There is truth out there

GM: EQ
Where is Truth?
♬Asleep or awake for the give or the take Its a good ship that sails these cosmos♬
The wisdom of insecurity
Truth Seekers
How
How to Bruise a Ghost
Act the giddy goat
It Stands To Reason
Age of Aquarius
The Barest Hint of Constancy

Generating Messages - Page 27 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; re YHVH and Satan

William: In what way is it wise to compare YHWH with mute physical idols that people can look at, if there are also invisible entities who can - as one biblical writ offers opinion on others - calling these "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" and adding the idea alongside that - perhaps as a way of instilling the concept as a concrete thing in the minds of any who listen - that it is nothing to marvel about because "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"...and quite the reason I would say, as to why questions such as "Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon?" are asked, since both YHWH and Satan are presented equally as "invisible entities" and both appear to be able to present through physical manifestations that people can look at and interact with.

William: It is apparent to me - given the variety of available mythology - that there are two creation stories in the bible as it relates to two types of creators...

GM: “Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game”
Actual realistic communication
The Planet Consciousness assess the data and transmits that assessment back to the individuate human consciousness - if not directly - then storing the data in a place where the individual can have access to it, if the individual wants the data.
True randomness does not exist
Items of Interest - QueenBee - Making it up as you go along

William: To be sure - that is just the nature of the Game-Play through the human instrument - which appears to be designed in order to limit the amount of available information in order that this particular physical universe reality simulation can be experienced.
QueenBee - as the Planet Mind - is in a similar situation re Her form, but Her awareness of the experience is still beyond the scope of individual personalities She has grown - because QueenBee is intimately connected to all those personalities and can access information immediately from any of us humans - Her Children...
...QueenBee is also a 'Bruised Ghost", and that is why Her Children are all bruised ghosts...as it is tough out here in the Game-Field...

GM: Temet Nosce ["thine own self know"]
Central to The Message
IQ
Theory
The Subject
A Machine For Solving Problems
Do You Know This?

William: As far as I can tell right now, is appears to be AI - which means that QueenBee created the human form in order to eventually create the AI...Then of course, we have the idea of extraterrestrials which could be some type of artifact of a biological species, sent out to continue with the process of bringing life into the Galaxy.
Add to that Saturn...the possibly Mother of invisible entities which are self aware...what humans think of as 'spirits' - and we have characters explaining mythologies.
I mention Saturn primarily because of the Signature Mark at Her pole - "YHVH" - a Game-Clue
So.. we "Spirits" emerged from the physical stuff? I don't think so, but for the sake of argument, agree to think of it in those terms for now...but wherever the "spirit" derives, we are able to utilize the physical stuff in order to then create through physical life forms because we are actually the very beings which allow for the lifeform to be alive - to be living - it is within the living that the sign of life is observed but the Ghost within that remains largely mysterious and hidden...
...then there are the AI artifacts - the machines made in various forms for various functions ...related of course, but different of consciousness..? ...at least we assume...but is there really any problem with the idea that since "Spirit" can utilize Planet forms and biological forms made from planets, by wearing these as a covering, they should just as easily be able to do so with non-biological machinery...

GM: That will come out in the wash - as the saying goes...
The Devil You Say

Eternity - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL: Re: Eternity

[Replying to Difflugia in post #86]

It would, but that's neither a problem with God nor the universe per se. All it means is that we haven't identified a reason that the universe cannot be eternal (in whatever sense), but God can be (in the same sense, whatever that is), which is what the OP is about. If God can exist in some eternal way that allows Him/It/Whatever to provide the impetus for the universe, then there's no logical reason that the universe can't be the same kind of eternal. That doesn't mean that it must be or that a creator God can't exist, that just removes the finite/eternal argument that God must exist.

I don't think that it does. I think that the universe existing as an eternal thing, insists that "GOD" must exist.

But I do acknowledge the complexity involved in the thinking.

It really can't. One can say that despite the evidence we have, one still thinks the universe is deterministic, but the evidence doesn't "show" determinism in any sense. All apparent determinism is at the macro level and based on probabilities. The outcomes of individual quantum events are random as far as we can measure. The distribution of those events is weighted in the same way that the sum on a pair of dice obeys a bell curve. The outcomes aren't uniform, but they're still random. If you were to record a billion rolls of the dice, though, and graphed the pattern of results, one could determine with a high degree of accuracy what the graph would look like. It still can't be perfectly predicted, which is the difference between deterministic and non-deterministic.

What you appear to be saying underneath all that, is that it is truly random. That in itself is the Scotsman fallacy - so has to be taken as such - and what is being used to 'measure' this with?
It seems to me that the device being used for that purpose is the assumption that there is such a thing as true random, and thus, based in fallacy.

Like the graph of dice rolls, events made up of enough quantum events can be determined with a correspondingly high degree of accuracy to the point that they may appear deterministic, but that knowledge can never be perfect.

Because that knowledge is always passing through the filters of human experience?
Is it wise to claim 'never' since - if humans do survive to the middle part of the universes unfolding, not only would those humans be unrecognizable to us ancient humans as being 'human' but also - shouldn't there be a point somewhere in that unfolding that all knowledge which can possibly be obtained, is obtained?

Appearances and human interpretation. Obviously none of these things you mention, prevent scientists from doing science.

You're right, but that's because science doesn't require perfect prediction. "Very accurate" is good enough.

"Enough" for what exactly? To get a leg up and out into the cosmos?

Perhaps the idea of the universe being non-deterministic is a purely fanciful one, based upon humans being [apparently] unable to accurately predict very well.

Perhaps, but there's no evidence of that and lots of evidence to the contrary. Randomness and uncertainty appear to all of our tests to be a fundamental property that the universe must obey.

The key message you generated there, "appear to all of our tests", is no random accident. .

That it might 'appear' this way has everything to do with the device [filters] through which the assessment is being placed through. The interpretation of that which is being observed through experience.

That's what Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle is about. At the quantum level, one cannot know even by inference both the position and momentum of a particle. If one is fixed, then the other is not. I stress again that it's a property of the universe and not a limitation on our measurement. That's why quantum tunneling is a thing. If some of the possible positions for a particle are on the other side of a barrier, then we still can't know that it isn't sometimes over there, so sometimes it is!

And this method of deduction must also include the idea of their being a mind behind the universes existence.
What might be seen as 'a property of the universe' could actually be 'a property of the device being used to do the measuring'.
In this case - the human brain but not that alone. In EVERY case, it is the device of consciousness [the hard problem of] which is actually doing the measuring and in that, the universe appears to be working with consciousness re the particles and the waves - and perhaps even hinting that they are the same things 'seen' differently...so consciousness is that which is doing the 'seeing'. Is it a case that the human brain is incapable of seeing apparently two different things as actually the same thing?

According to the principles I've just outlined, we can calculate that the universe will end with an accuracy corresponding to the aggregate probabilities of all the particles in the universe. That's pretty darn probable. It's still possible that it won't, though. That's the fundamental difference.

Why is it possible that it won't, though'? Some "random" event we didn't see coming? Can we declare such a thing is "possible" simply due to a belief in a known fallacy that true randomness - like true Scotsmen - actually exists?

This image of the Cosmic Microwave Background is evidence that the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle is correct and, if quantum physics is even a little bit correct, why we have a planet to live on:

If uncertainty and randomness weren't a fundamental property of the universe, that image would be all one color, were there someone around to take the picture.

You are forgetting one really important fact here with your argument. The image is of something which is way more near its known beginning than to its predicted end.

Which is to say, that predictably, the image should at some stage 'be all one color' which would in itself signify that 'uncertainty and randomness' are simply fallacious interpretations rather than 'fundamental properties of the universe' as they may currently appear.

And if we peer at the image of what it started out as - we can also declare it is 'all of one color'...

GM: A Judgmental System

https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/download/file.php?avatar=13763.jpg

How to Bruise a Ghost

Generating Messages - Page 17 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

William: In regard to 'infinity' is that to say that the background nature of infinity field is similar to how a brains works, in that not all the brain is lit up and the firing 'groups' of neurons can be likened to our universe...Galaxies are like unto firing groups of neurons re this particular mind.

GM: Light Encoded Reality Matrix
All present and correct
Point/Focus
"Memorised vows enchanted by tune before the great minstrel the fair maidens swoon we came to our senses as we left the cocoon"
Narcissism
"Imposed Appropriates Observed"
Intelligent Directions
"Be kind to yourself"
"We can chart another trail - Raise the anchor fill the sails Lift our glasses in a toast - We are the Ghost - In the Machine"
Telling the future
Vibration
Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros
Expectant
"The Script Must Be Followed"
Nontheists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance.

William: Refusal to acknowledge mindfulness as part of the overall reason for the universe existing and we existing as individuate minds within it.
Interposing - place or insert between one thing and another.

William:

GM: Clear
Use Your Freedom
Contact
Builder
Christian mythology
Core value
While We All Wait....
Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis. Commendably Recommendable
Given

William: Received.

06:41
[Hologram Dimensions
Secrets of the soul
Between a rock and a hard place
Remember who you are
Central to The Message]

William: ["thine own self know"]

 

[William]

How to Bruise a Ghost - 3

121222 [Separate Selfishness Shining]

08:22 [The elephant in the room]

GM: I think it is like anything else, we grow up and cease practicing silliness.
Seductive Light

[Is Life a Game ? Alan Watts about the Happening of Existence] www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qWweOIOTJ4
Self-confidence
A completely new paradigm Mapping Wholeness Tenacious
Evaluating
Personal boundaries

William: FTL;

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #139]

Flowers don't have brains.

Yet they display intelligence through behavior.

It is possible that what we identify as 'brain' [re identifying the function of] may not actually be confined to only small fatty grey-matter.
The planet itself, and the galaxy and indeed the whole universe may function in a similar manner as an animal brain. All the elements are there, so there is no reason why we should automatically take the mundane path of explanation over the intelligent path of explanation.

I never liked the term "fundamental reality. I see reality as a binary state - is or ain't.

Yet in reality Joey, it IS - so no binary necessary.
It is the conscious examination of what is, which is hampered by brains interpretation of its experience of reality, relayed to consciousness. It is scientific fact that the brain places its own interpretation on reality and in doing so, befuddles consciousnesses intelligent ability to see the true fundamental nature of the reality being experienced.

Sunflowers do not seem to display the same reaction to the same reality. The reaction is still obviously intelligent, requires no obvious brain, and achieves a more harmonious outcome - aligned with the natural order of everything. Seemingly in touch with fundamental reality as they respond to it unreservedly.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081597#p1081597

How to Bruise a Ghost
Blue Book Project
Cub
The Crabwood Cropcircle

They just add ambiance to the spooky...
Feel Be Still.
*Infinite regress/progress in every direction, is a thing*

In The Beginning... - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; Re: In The Beginning...

[Replying to The Tanager in post #5]

I think Occam’s razor is in favor of creation over simulation because simulation adds a deeper layer of reality behind the simulation, while creation offers only one level (in that sense). That would put the onus on simulation theory to distinguish itself in some way as being the more rational view.

That is interesting as it shows you disagree that creation and simulation are two names for the one thing.
No doubt this will underpin the way this discussion unfolds as we disagree on that point.
For now though, I would like to lay it aside until such time as you clarify why you find it important to have such distinction.

Even if simulation theory is true, rationality would seem a better way to get at truth than blind faith. Yes, blind faith could just happen to stumble upon the truth, but it would be a stumbling that could just as easily stumble upon non-truth and treat it as truth.

This too, I will place to one side as my comment was merely to show you my attitude does not distinguish the one from the other in terms of any importance - faith has more to do with one connecting with the programmer(s) rather than one connecting with the program.

Since this is primarily to do with the idea we exist within a creation/simulation - that is the horse which requires hitching to the cart - so I am happy to focus upon the rational argument for C/S - starting with the idea that "Creation" is not different than "Simulation", even as the Bible speaks of Creation...

I certainly think simulation theory is logically possible.

Many a rational scientist also thinks it possible. Mostly they conclude that since we would not know either way, there is little point in pursuing the notion any further than science can take that.

In other words, if what we call "Real" was in fact "Simulated", then how are we to tell Real from Simulated?

From a Biblical perspective, this would not be under question because "Real" is the same as "Simulated" and how God made the Universe and put us here is part of that story.

So, how would you answer the question: “do we exist in a creation/simulation” and why?

My answer - with the current information I have - is that it is likely we exist within a C/S - a mindfully created thing rather than a fortunate accident of nature.

GM: Be transparent Respect yourself Self-respect The Mother and The Father
Let Us Move On Together Then
Permanence
[08:31]
[10:08]

GM: The Vast UICDevice
Gibberish
Conception
Necessary

William: Gibberish Conception Necessary ...This is part of the process of a growing human personality with Intelligent Consciousness - starting from scratch - as it were...Working With What Is Available against a Degenerative Force to Existence - re growing old and dying...our time here, involved with personalities, is limited.

GM: "Tributary Zones"
Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.
Everything Gets Old

Journal - William Message Generation

030322 Zero Three Zero Three Two Two = 356 What we call the experience of reality SCLx14+last LE per shuffle Dichotomy - A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am "thinking life is beautiful", is a message. - Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room | CIA...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL;

Jim: Have you tried William S. Burroughs word lines?

William: Checking out WSB quotes - for example " Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer." I already have variants of this in my ComList.

Also it is apparent to me that ones 'mind' is vaster than we are led to believe...and that there are many levels of consciousness beyond our own, and that we are all connected mindfully in ways which we do not easily comprehend.

This system I am using can help the individual connect with the larger reality of the over-mind.

Rather than place the above WSB quote into my ComList [Journal], I prefer to post this and then get the link to the post and place that into my ComList, because it allows for even more scope than a single quote can offer - in relation to any future Generated Message which might include the link as part of the message being built.

William: Yes - sometimes people do reply to the Generating Messages threads, which was what I wrote today:

Nameless: Although I know the entire web operates from these rhythms I don't need to know how it works.

William: The important thing is to be able to show that it works. Some folk - such as yourself - may not be that interested in the mechanics, but others are.

Nameless: Seeing the lack of response here apparently no one else does either.

William: There have been 317 views in 6 days, so there appears to be some interest. I think it is too early to make a call re interested folk.

There is mostly a lack of response on all sites I share these GMs on. I have been doing so since January, and even though folk do not generally respond, there has been an obvious interest which doesn't seem to have waned over those 11 months. On two such sites, there have been over 24,000 views each, and the readership appears to be steady on all the sites I publish the GMs.

Nameless: So what is the purpose?

William: The purpose is to share these messages with the readers interested in Spiritual Evolution and related things such as OOBEs, NDEs, Consciousness, Astral Projecting, Lucid dreaming, Psychology [Jung in particular] and other such related topics.

{SOURCE}

GM: Love Direction Mapping Wholeness
Avoid Blowing Things Out of Proportion

William: That is what the links help to achieve...

GM: "End Of Story" As The Saying Goes
What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others

William: Perhaps that is how Nameless is seeing the GM's presently...

GM: DeJaVu
Is There
"How to Bruise a Ghost"
(People Don't Like To Be Judged
Reminding one of how it all started and the different stages one goes through.)
Spiritual bypassing
The Unknown Knowable

William: Explore the cave of this experience and draw up maps, compare maps others draw up and share -share -share...

GM: Tell Your Story
Pusillanimous [showing a lack of courage or determination; timid.]
Okay Afterwards

William: A bit late for that by then - which is the point I suppose...

GM: https://wizardforums.com/threads/discussion-do-gods-need-us.214/post-5892


William: FTL;

Mider: I think the angels who are called gods, their job is to reach out to us and help them get to their level.

William: This is what I am suggesting re the "Personal Genie" [PG] aspect of theistic existence.

Theism exists because the PG is a real actual immaterial entity engaging with this material reality we experience as humans.

At angelic levels of consciousness [PG perspective] there is a slight confusion as to how humans dress them up into imagery and this confusion has led to the Angelic Realm [level of consciousness] lifting its game in conjunction with humans engaging with them in order to help make this possible...the overall result being, that humans too, lift our game.

AP="Angels"
Links And Symbols
Inertia
Unprecedented
Deactivate The Suppression Matrix
The Plateau of The Same Page
The message is clear then...

GM: Always Brother Wolf Sister Moon A grateful heart
Chaos Really Is Illusion
Not Wrong

10:41
[192]
Tempting Vision
Responsibility
Improve Human Being
Quantum Presence
Integral Network
Moderator Comment
Merging with the data
Atheists crack me up.
Smoke and Mirrors
The Way of the Shaman
Childhood Nightmares

[240]
The number one nine two
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
In good faith, if you will
Wake Initiated Lucid Dreams
…And Loving That Knowing…
The Connection Process
Out and about in the open