Featured Yes, 12 Disciples were men, but women respected and found empty tomb . . . is this enough so women can be preachers, too?

[Multicolored Lemur]

A preacher’s dark secret: Sleepovers, porn and sex abuse allegations dating back decades

Joe Campbell says his calling is to share God’s love, but a group of women say he sexually abused them as girls. An NBC News investigation uncovered decades of missed warnings and failures to act.

www.nbcnews.com

“ . . The way the children’s pastor wrapped them in his arms. The terrifying stories he told about demons and the warmth in his voice as he promised to protect them. The chill of his hands on parts of their bodies where no grown man’s hands should be. . ”

“ . . the dark secret behind the public ministry of Joseph Lyle Campbell, a magnetic Pentecostal preacher who built a national following with fiery sermons on sin, salvation and America’s moral decline. As Campbell tells it, he was a teenager when God gave him a mission: to share his love of Jesus with children. In the decades since, as he evangelized from church to church across the South and Midwest, he has repeatedly faced accusations of child sexual abuse, an NBC News investigation found. . ”

———————

It’s not just that a minority abuse, but that the system is so lousy at responding to this. And that other adults lack skills, that’s forgivable. But that other adults look for excuses not to do anything about it, and that’s less forgivable.

——

Yes, this same kind of thing can happen outside religion. For example, in a youth sports league.

But it seems worse in religion.

And the covering up seems worse

 

[Scooter]

And who made up these councils? Preachers, pastors, elders, bishops. Godly men who sought God's will and direction.

Okay, let’s do it.

This week there was a news item about some former mega-church leader with a track record of sexual abuse. The guy is co-hosting events with Jim Bakker or something like that.

Why don’t I feel positive when I hear the phrase “Godly men” ? ! ?

You have a valid point. Acts like this are abhorrent, disgusting and inexcusable. Especially when committed by so called "Godly men". I can understand why these atrocities would turn people away from Christianity. However, Christ never did anything like this. I follow Christ, not Christian men. All men, even Christians, will disappoint you. Even I, myself, miss the mark and come up short as a Godly man. I would never encourage anyone to follow my example. But let me also say, not all Godly men are guilty of sexual abuse. I believe it is a small percentage of men in the ministry who are guilty of this crime (and I believe it is a crime that should be punished by death). The overwhelming majority of men who serve God do so with pure intentions and a real desire to glorify Jesus Christ. So, I still believe God can and does still accomplish His will through Godly men who honestly seek His will.

 

[Scooter]

A preacher’s dark secret: Sleepovers, porn and sex abuse allegations dating back decades

Joe Campbell says his calling is to share God’s love, but a group of women say he sexually abused them as girls. An NBC News investigation uncovered decades of missed warnings and failures to act.

www.nbcnews.com

“ . . The way the children’s pastor wrapped them in his arms. The terrifying stories he told about demons and the warmth in his voice as he promised to protect them. The chill of his hands on parts of their bodies where no grown man’s hands should be. . ”

“ . . the dark secret behind the public ministry of Joseph Lyle Campbell, a magnetic Pentecostal preacher who built a national following with fiery sermons on sin, salvation and America’s moral decline. As Campbell tells it, he was a teenager when God gave him a mission: to share his love of Jesus with children. In the decades since, as he evangelized from church to church across the South and Midwest, he has repeatedly faced accusations of child sexual abuse, an NBC News investigation found. . ”

———————

It’s not just that a minority abuse, but that the system is so lousy at responding to this. And that other adults lack skills, that’s forgivable. But that other adults look for excuses not to do anything about it, and that’s less forgivable.

——

Yes, this same kind of thing can happen outside religion. For example, in a youth sports league.

But it seems worse in religion.

And the covering up seems worse

If men like Joseph Campbell represent Christianity, then according to this article, men like Jeffery Dalmer must represent atheists:

People Think Serial Killers are More Likely to be Atheist

Support more videos like this at patreon.com/rebecca! Transcript: Allow me to pose a question to you. A child tortures animals and grows up enjoying hurting people. As an adult, he now has killed f…

skepchick.org

I don't think it is fair to judge the majority by the acts of the few.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

1 Cor.5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Paul’s previous letter was not inspired by God, and therefore not included in the canon of scriptures.

I think we put too much into "inspiration" almost as if it's top level type of revelation.

My thing is that any revelation from God that involves instructions, which I assume is includes some of Paul's letters that aren't included, should regarded as part of Scripture. There are also Christians today that claim to receive revelation from God. If there is a reliable way to validate that, then why not include them as Scripture, as well?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I believe it is a small percentage of men in the ministry who are guilty of this crime (and I believe it is a crime that should be punished by death)

You’re going to then have a brother hesitating to turn in his own brother when he otherwise would have. Or a wife hesitating to turn in her husband.

12 years in prison might be the sweet spot.

Meaning, it might prevent the max amount of abuse. And might work as well as it can on the punishment side of the equation. The other side is learning skills. For example, just because you feel attraction to a teenage girl doesn’t mean you need to act on it. And yet, an evangelical Christian is more likely to twist himself into a pretzel on this very point. Whereas a secular guy is more likely to, I guess view it as just random flux in life? Just one of those things. Again, you don’t have to act on it. The secular guy doesn’t want to risk real harm to somebody else’s life. He doesn’t focus so much on his own thoughts and feelings like the religious guy does.

 

[Scooter]

Well, I can’t speak to the mental process of either Christian or atheist child molesters. In my eyes molesting a child is worse than murder and should result in immediate death for the molester.

 

[Scooter]

I think we put too much into "inspiration" almost as if it's top level type of revelation.

My thing is that any revelation from God that involves instructions, which I assume is includes some of Paul's letters that aren't included, should regarded as part of Scripture. There are also Christians today that claim to receive revelation from God. If there is a reliable way to validate that, then why not include them as Scripture, as well?

The canon of scripture ended with the Revelation of Jesus Christ. There cannot be any additional "revelations". God has provided everything needed for mankind to live by through the 66 books of the Bible. Any later additions are not considered inspired by God. Here is a good link that explains the canon of scripture. It is lengthy, but an easy read: https://apologeticspress.org/the-canon-and-extra-canonical-writings-968/

 

[AgnosticBoy]

The canon of scripture ended with the Revelation of Jesus Christ. There cannot be any additional "revelations". God has provided everything needed for mankind to live by through the 66 books of the Bible. Any later additions are not considered inspired by God.

That thought actually starts in 2 Timothy 3:16, and at that time it referred to the OT for the most part (all Scripture before 2 Timothy was written or before Paul made that statement). Since that statement, more Scriptures, including the book of Revelation, were added on. Given that action of adding on after 2 Timothy 3:16 I don't think "all Scripture...." really means that nothing else could be added.

2 Timothy 3:16
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

 

[Scooter]

2 Tim.3:16 is absolutely correct. All scripture is God breathed, including all scripture written after 2 Timothy. The books that were omitted from the canon were examined early church fathers and were not considered inspired by God for various reasons. Some contained blatant errors and others contained contradictions to accepted doctrine.

Later writings such as the Quran and Book of Mormon for example are not God breathed because they both contain teachings that are contrary to Biblical doctrine. If later writings were inspired by God they would agree with the canon of scriptures, and none do. So it is my belief that the canon of scripture ended with the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

The books that were omitted from the canon were examined early church fathers and were not considered inspired by God for various reasons. Some contained blatant errors and others contained contradictions to accepted doctrine.

This is true about the early Church fathers and others. But what this shows me is more of tradition being involved and not a revelation from God. I think that's ironic. I presume many Christians want the Bible canon to contain God's revelation, but then those same ones go without God's revelation to determine when to close the canon.

If later writings were inspired by God they would agree with the canon of scriptures, and none do. So it is my belief that the canon of scripture ended with the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

You may very well be correct, but I find the process to be problematic.

Another issue is that different denominations may have different canons. FOr instance, the Catholic Bible has more books than the Protestant Bible. Catholic Bible contains 1 and 2 Maccabees. There's also a book called Sirach and another one called Tobit. This is one list I found online:

Books of the Bible

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