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As an atheist / agnostic, I say . . .

Mark was an early gospel while early Christians were still working out their full ideas. And it looks like still wrestling with whether to embrace Christianity as specific to one group or as an universal faith.

Luke was maybe the last gospel and was just better. Only Luke has one of the two thieves on the cross getting saved, and Jesus saying to him that he will be with him in paradise. Luke also has the encounter on the “Road to Emmaus.” All in all, it has just more human heart in it, without going overboard.

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There were other early gospels, such as the “Gospel of Thomas.” But these were not selected by early church councils to be part of the Bible.
 
But other than fathering 12 sons by 4 different woman who became the leaders of the 12 tribes, and only one daughter Dinah is mentioned,

Isaac son Jacob didn’t do anything great,

he didn’t bridge the differences of warring factions, he didn’t show personal courage, he didn’t show an act of kindness to someone in a vulnerable position.

* okay, maybe it was courage to rejoin his brother. This is the part where he sends herds of animals ahead as a peace offering. But this brother to brother reunion only briefly happens. After that, Isaac agrees to go to a certain place, but skulks away to another place!
Good point. I think the special status that Isaac held is that he was one of the forefathers of Israel. Several places in the Bible it mentions God being the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, like 1 Chronicles 29:18, Numbers 32:11, Acts 7:32, etc).
 
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The verse does not say that. You as a good man are saying that.
You are correct. However, in John 6:37 Jesus said that all who came to Him, He would in no way cast out. Therefore, those on the outside are there because they don’t want to be on the inside. The same applies to people today.
 
As an atheist / agnostic, I say . . .

Mark was an early gospel while early Christians were still working out their full ideas. And it looks like still wrestling with whether to embrace Christianity as specific to one group or as an universal faith.

Luke was maybe the last gospel and was just better. Only Luke has one of the two thieves on the cross getting saved, and Jesus saying to him that he will be with him in paradise. Luke also has the encounter on the “Road to Emmaus.” All in all, it has just more human heart in it, without going overboard.

=========

There were other early gospels, such as the “Gospel of Thomas.” But these were not selected by early church councils to be part of the Bible.
Matthew was written primarily to the Jews to show that Jesus was the rightful King of Israel. Mark’s audience was the Roman citizens and portrays Jesus as the suffering servant. Luke writes to a Gentile and shows Jesus as a man while John reveals Jesus is God and his Gospel is to all mankind. Combined, the Gospels show Jesus as the King yet a servant. As a man, but also God.
 
. I think the special status that Isaac held is that he was one of the forefathers of Israel. Several places in the Bible it mentions God being the "God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, like 1 Chronicles 29:18, Numbers 32:11, Acts 7:32, etc).
And I think it’s fine to remember and respect ancestors. In fact, the way they put it is poetic and beautiful.

Alright, I read all of Genesis as an adult, all 50 chapters. It’s sparse. Often, they will say someone is righteous and give no additional information. Or say someone is righteous and they keep the covenant. It’s like a Hollywood writer short-handing a story and sketching it out, but not really telling the story.

The only 2 parts of Genesis which I personally find at all inspiring are —

the creation poetry at the beginning, and

the last couple of chapters about Joseph of multi-colored coat fame. His brothers are jealous and sell him into slavery to passing travelers and lie to their father that he was killed by animals. Joseph eventually rises to become Pharaoh’s right-hand man. And during a time of famine, his brothers do not recognize them, and Joseph treats them with kindness when he could have sought revenge.


PS— I guess we could say that the very imperfections of Genesis means that it’s real. I’ll grant that it’s an authentic ancient text, almost certainly written by humans, with little or no divine help that I can see.
 
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The verse does not say that. You as a good man are saying that.
You are correct. However, in John 6:37 Jesus said that all who came to Him, He would in no way cast out. Therefore, those on the outside are there because they don’t want to be on the inside. The same applies to people today.
pulling an example from our Presidents —

a book about Bush, Jr. talked about him losing his younger sister to leukemia when he was in elementary school. When the family was at a football game, young George said his sister was watching from heaven and had the best seat in the house.

And that’s the way most people understand religion.

Our departed relatives watch down and can feel happy for us. Maybe even proud of us. And perhaps from a place of greater wisdom of the compromises necessary in life.

I have no idea how to adjudicate whether a verse in John takes precedence over a verse in Mark.

It’s also my understanding that the earliest known chapter 1’s of the gospels do not have the tradition names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And therefore we can conclude that these names were added later.
 
I have no idea how to adjudicate whether a verse in John takes precedence over a verse in Mark.

It’s also my understanding that the earliest known chapter 1’s of the gospels do not have the tradition names of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. And therefore we can conclude that these names were added later.
Verses in the Bible do not take precedence over others. They compliment and clarify other verses. I know this is difficult for you to understand, but the natural person cannot comprehend spiritual things and the Bible is a spiritual book. Only those who are saved can comprehend the teachings of the scriptures.

The authors of the Gospels do not name themselves. The names were provided by the early church fathers. For instance, Polycrates wrote that John penned the Gospel of John. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John have been accepted by the church from the earliest times.
 
Our departed relatives watch down and can feel happy for us. Maybe even proud of us. And perhaps from a place of greater wisdom of the compromises necessary in life.
Personally, I do not believe our loved ones look down from Heaven. The Bible says that Heaven is a place of joy and I believe if those in Heaven looked down and saw a child or grandchild strung out on dope they would not be joyful. If those in Heaven saw the conditions on earth, I don't believe they would be celebrating. Not only that, but many loved ones don't make it to Heaven when they die. Only those who are saved are in the presence of God.
 
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33 “And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.

34 “But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.”

———————————

Too high a standard.

And, these days in the U.S., too many strangers. We probably need a combo of —

Earned Amnesty, Back of the Line, and

a Guest Worker Program, Not Tied to One Employer, Not Indentured Servant.

————///—-/——

Just trying to be practical.
 
song lyrics —

‘When I was a young boy
‘My father took me into the city
‘To see a marching band

‘He said, “Son, when you grow up
Would you be the savior of the broken
The beaten and the damned?”


‘He said, “Will you defeat them?
Your demons, and all the non-believers
The plans that they have made?” . . ’

— beginning of the song “Welcome to the Black Parade” by My Chemical Romance

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There’s a 31-yr-old man who’s a regular at one of the local sports bars, and this song seems to be an absolute anthem for him. I think he was in junior high when it came out.

Anyway, I’m trying to illustrate there are a lot of good ideas out there, in religion, in the world, etc.
 
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