Multicolored Lemur

Well-known member
Atheist / Agnostic
Nov 23, 2021
753
271

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3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

5 And that he was seen of Cephas [Peter], then of the twelve:

6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

8 And last of all he was seen of me [Paul] also, as of one born out of due time.

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Even though I am no longer a believer, and I was a very strong believer as a teenager,

I value honest conversations.

This is probably the biggest claim of a post-Resurrection Jesus, at least as far as crowd size. And I’m happy to put it out there for everyone’s consideration.
 
This is probably the biggest claim of a post-Resurrection Jesus, at least as far as crowd size. And I’m happy to put it out there for everyone’s consideration.
I accept that the believed that Jesus resurrected not only because of what they said but also what they did. These disciples and witnesses were willing to suffer and die for their belief. No rational person would die willingly for a lie.

Another aspect this deals with is in confirming that Jesus's resurrection was 'physical' as opposed to spiritual or subjective. Jesus appearing to Paul for instance seemed more spiritual because he just saw a bright light, and those with Paul did not witness everything that Paul did. But to make an appearance where 500 people can see you "at once" would have to be something physical.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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I’m going to put a lot of weight on grief hallucinations. Someone who’s lost a loved one, especially a spouse, often sees them or hears them or feels their presence. This is something like 30% of people who have lost a spouse, or higher.

I’m not going to put much weight on group hypnosis. Although if we really want to argue on points, we could talk about such things as “Our Lady of Fatima” in Portugal in 1917. Believing three children had seen Mary, thousands of people gathered in a field. They seemed to stare at the Sun [always a dangerous occupation], and different people saw different things, including the Sun momentarily getting closer.
 
I’m going to put a lot of weight on grief hallucinations. Someone who’s lost a loved one, especially a spouse, often sees them or hears them or feels their presence. This is something like 30% of people who have lost a spouse, or higher.

I’m not going to put much weight on group hypnosis. Although if we really want to argue on points, we could talk about such things as “Our Lady of Fatima” in Portugal in 1917. Believing three children had seen Mary, thousands of people gathered in a field. They seemed to stare at the Sun [always a dangerous occupation], and different people saw different things, including the Sun momentarily getting closer.
If we accept the details about Jesus' post-mortem appearances as written, I would say that they are too elaborate to fall under the category of a hallucination. Let's take Acts 1:3-4 for instance,
3 After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God. 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

As written, it seems that the disciples took steps to verify that Jesus was alive or was who he said he was which is sort of similar to what occurred in the doubting Thomas story. If someone wants to dispute the accuracy or authenticity of the details, then that's another matter.

Jesus's appearance to the apostle Paul comes off to me as an hallucination, although I'm open o the idea that it could've been a spiritual experience of some sort.
 
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If we accept the details about Jesus' post-mortem appearances as written, I would say that they are too elaborate to fall under the category of a hallucination.
I agree. Which is why I wish I had written grief hallucinations + urban legend.