Featured “The Gospel of John” has an anonymous author

Multicolored Lemur · Saturday at 11:06 PM

How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

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“ . . Both Matthew and John were members of the original twelve apostles, firsthand eyewitnesses of what Jesus did and said. . “

“ . . John was the “beloved disciple” who faithfully wrote down his testimony so that people would believe that Jesus truly is the Christ (John 20:31). . ”

“ . . Writing early in the second century, Papias detailed the origins of the four canonical gospels, emphasizing their value as eyewitness accounts. About 30-40 years later, Justin Martyr consistently referred to the four biblical gospels as the “memoirs of the apostles.” . .

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Notice how this writer moves from 2 of the gospels being eyewitnesses to all 4.

And I hope Jesus would love each and every one of his disciples, each in his own unique way. And I think some women were also followers of Jesus.

And with Justin referring to all the writings with one general term around 150 AD, it doesn’t sound like names were attached to the gospels. And I question whether any of the four were eyewitnesses. Rumors circulate, and the “better” stories tend to be repeated more.

Multicolored Lemur · Saturday at 11:26 PM

How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

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“Towards the end of the second century, Irenaeus argued forcefully for the authority of the fourfold Gospel in such a way that indicates this was the position long held by the church.”

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Please notice how this writer is moving from inward confidence to outward truth. And some people reason this way, and not just about situations at work and social reads of other people. But about big universal truths.

AgnosticBoy · Sunday at 12:58 PM

Multicolored Lemur said:
How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

We live in a culture filled with good conspiracy theories. So how do we find the real Jesus? Discover the real Jesus in the Bible with Grace Seminary today!

seminary.grace.edu

“Towards the end of the second century, Irenaeus argued forcefully for the authority of the fourfold Gospel in such a way that indicates this was the position long held by the church.”

———

Please notice how this writer is moving from inward confidence to outward truth. And some people reason this way, and not just about situations at work and social reads of other people. But about big universal truths.

In my view, it's almost like trying to make much out of little, and that tends to lead to stretching the truth.

In my view, here's the strongest evidence for John being the author, or at least some other eyewitness:
1. John 21:20 and 24... the author identifies himself as an eyewitness
2. Irenaeus refers to a John writing the Gospel and even quotes from it in several places in Against Heresies:
3.1.1 "Afterwards, John, the disciple of the Lord, who also had leaned upon His breast, did himself publish a Gospel during his residence at Ephesus in Asia." (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103301.htm)
3.11.1 "John, the disciple of the Lord, preaches this faith, and seeks, by the proclamation of the Gospel, to remove that error which by Cerinthus had been disseminated among men" (https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103311.htm)

And I only cite Irenaeus because he was one of the first to bring up John writing a gospel.

Weakest evidence for John being an author is the dating of John's Gospel...
1. The dating of John's Gospel to 90 to 100 AD.

Scooter said:
Here is a site with supporting evidence for John being the author. And this is an actual theological academic site: https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/who-wrote-the-gospel-of-john

This is a very good source! Thanks for posting that.

AgnosticBoy · Sunday at 1:15 PM

Multicolored Lemur said:
I guess Bart Ehrman said this, “Hardly anyone in the ancient world lived past the age of 65.”

and just flat disagree with him.

In the ancient world, a lot of children didn’t make it to age 5 because of infectious disease, and this is a full-fledged tragedy. And I think a source of sadness for a lot of family members. All the same, if someone got lucky at several critical times throughout their life, I think he or she could live just as long as today.

Irenaeus not only talks about Polycarp being old, but very old. This leads me to believe that he was passed 60. 60 isn't that old. I'm thinking a lot of the people in leadership were also well taken care of. They would've had an entire community supporting them, making sure they ate well, receiving gifts (if they wanted), etc.

But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom.

- Against Heresies 3.3.4 https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103303.htm

Multicolored Lemur · Sunday at 7:38 PM

AgnosticBoy said:
Irenaeus refers to a John writing the Gospel and even quotes from it in several places in Against Heresies:

But the writings of Justin came before those of Irenaeus.

Multicolored Lemur · Sunday at 7:41 PM

When did Justin Martyr write?

Google AI —

“Justin Martyr wrote during the mid-2nd century CE, with his most notable works including the First Apology (around 150-155 AD) and the Dialogue with Trypho the Jew (sometime after the First Apology, possibly around 155-167 AD). He also wrote a Second Apology around 160 AD.

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Okay, between 150 and 167 AD depending on the book.

AgnosticBoy · Sunday at 8:17 PM

Multicolored Lemur said:
But the writings of Justin came before those of Irenaeus.

True. At best, we can use Justin Martyr to say that all 4 Gospels existed by his time, but he does not say specifically that John was the author of any of them. I think Irenaeus was the first one to specify that John wrote a gospel.

Here's one perspective:

In his writings Justin quotes the Gospels that later were to be considered part of the New Testament on numerous occasions. It is quite clear that he knows (intimately) Matthew, Mark, and Luke. It is debated whether he knows John. He does have two explicit quotations from John 3 (from the passage about “being born again”) but some scholars think that’s not enough to show that he knows John – just that he is familiar with a tradition that had earlier also found its way into John. My own view is that he probably knew John.

Contrary to what you may sometimes have heard, there is no concrete evidence that the Gospels received their familiar names early on. It is absolutely true to say that in the manuscripts of the Gospels, they have the titles we are accustomed to (The Gospel according to Matthew, etc.). But these manuscripts with titles do not start appearing until around 200 CE. What were manuscripts of, say, Matthew or John entitled in the year 120 CE? We have no way of knowing. But there are reasons to think that they were not called Matthew and John.

Source: https://ehrmanblog.org/when-did-the-gospels-get-their-names/

Multicolored Lemur · Monday at 6:45 PM

AgnosticBoy said:
we can use Justin Martyr to say that all 4 Gospels existed by his time

I don’t see him saying all 4. I see him saying something much more general.

Justin says, “The Memoirs of the Apostles”

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Maybe almost like Myers-Briggs “type indicator,” some people are big picture, and some people are details.

AgnosticBoy · Monday at 7:49 PM

Multicolored Lemur said:
I don’t see him saying all 4. I see him saying something much more general.

Justin says, “The Memoirs of the Apostles”

That's true. I wonder if there were more than 4 gospels then. I know the Gospel of Thomas and others were used by some Christians. Really, this is one big problem in Christianity, the selection of books, like who says that God can't inspire people who aren't apostles? Who says that the Canon is closed and that God can't reveal more? In my view, this potentially stunted the progress of Christianity.

Scooter · Monday at 8:55 PM

AgnosticBoy said:
I wonder if there were more than 4 gospels then. I know the Gospel of Thomas and others were used by some Christians. Really, this is one big problem in Christianity, the selection of books, like who says that God can't inspire people who aren't apostles? Who says that the Canon is closed and that God can't reveal more? In my view, this potentially stunted the progress of Christianity.

The completion of scripture is not a problem at all for Christians. If God can create the universe out of nothing, it would be easy for Him to ensure the canon of scripture is complete. With the Revelation the scriptures were complete. Everything a person needs to know for salvation and righteous living can be found in the 66 books of the Bible. Nothing else is needed.

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Featured “The Gospel of John” has an anonymous author

Multicolored Lemur

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How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

Multicolored Lemur

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How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

AgnosticBoy

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How Do We Know That the Gospels Show Us the Real Jesus?

AgnosticBoy

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Multicolored Lemur

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Multicolored Lemur

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AgnosticBoy

Open-minded Skeptic

Multicolored Lemur

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AgnosticBoy

Open-minded Skeptic

Scooter

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