The Fermi Paradox, and growth of urban legend (“better” retellings)

[Multicolored Lemur]

Herb York wrote:

“ . . Fermi said, virtually apropos of nothing: ‘Don't you ever wonder where everybody is?’ Somehow (and perhaps it was connected to the prior conversation in the way you describe, even though I do not remember that) we all knew he meant extra-terrestrials. . ”

So, York remembers the shared recognition by the group that Fermi meant aliens, but he doesn’t remember the previous conversation.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Emil Konopinski wrote:

“ . . it was after we were at the luncheon table that Fermi surprised us with the question: ‘But where is everybody?’ It was his way of putting it that drew laughs from us. . ”

This is much more vague.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Please notice that only the first guy Edward Teller gives us both of what we want:

1) that Fermi’s blurt out was connected to a previous conversation which happened that same day, and

2) that the other three of them at the table immediately knew Fermi was referring to aliens.

But Teller thought there was “maybe approximately eight” of them at the lunch table, so he’s not super dependable (third post from top).

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

page 21

This book hits all the high points:

(step 0) [nowhere in the three letters]
recent “spate” of UFO reports,

(step 1) the cartoon,

(2) discussion on faster-than-light travel, and

(3) Fermi concluding that aliens should have visited long ago and many times over.

And notice that it’s Stephen Webb himself who adds step 0, even using the distinctive word “spate.”

And this guy is a serious scientist. All the same, he contributes to the legend growing.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

And Stephen Webb published a second edition in 2015 . . . which isn't as good.

Maybe it's that he upgrades from 50 to 75 potential explanations, and numbers 51 to 75 aren't as good.

But I think it's also that this second edition is overwritten. In his first edition, it's like he's talking to a friend. But this second edition is overly careful, overly tedious, something.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

This is one of the more fun potential “solutions.”

The percolation model.

The Fermi Paradox

Revealing the results of a simulation on spacefaring civilizations in the Milky Way

www.visualcinnamon.com

Mainly, the idea that extraterrestrials colonize some places, but not others.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Looks like you did a lot of good research here, Lemur.

Fermi Paradox raises some interesting questions. My personal theory is that we (or intelligent life, in general) are the ones that will colonize other planets. I can kinda see it within our reach when it comes to our sending man to the moon and then to Mars later on. If time travel is possible, then I'm sure a future version of mankind has already colonized other planets, and they go back in time from time to time, even as far back as prehistoric man. Prehistoric man would've seen future man (even us included) as gods.

And I would suggest that this is how at least some scripture is written.

Notably the four gospels of the New Testament. Mark was written first. And then both Matthew and Luke were based on Mark and a lost writing of some of sayings of Jesus called Q (from Quelle in the German language, meaning source). This is also called the Two-Source Hypothesis.

Even if your view is not verifiably correct, but I'm sure it's right around the truth. I think it's very reasonable to look at the gospels as some type of "composite" of different sources. Just as Fermi Paradox wasn't written by Enrico Fermi himself, but instead someone tracked down the people around him, and got each of them to give their story. I think it's reasonable someone did the same when it came to Jesus's disciples - most likely a follower(s), one that was literate.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Looks like you did a lot of good research here, Lemur.

Fermi Paradox raises some interesting questions. My personal theory is that we (or intelligent life, in general) are the ones that will colonize other planets. I can kinda see it within our reach when it comes to our sending man to the moon and then to Mars later on. If time travel is possible, then I'm sure a future version of mankind has already colonized other planets, and they go back in time from time to time, even as far back as prehistoric man. Prehistoric man would've seen future man (even us included) as gods.

Thank you for your kind words.

Yes, extraterrestrials, or the potential there of, are a longtime interest of mine. And I carefully read these three letters (which I suppose are more of historic rather than scientific interest).

Hey, what you’re talking about with a time travel loop-around in which we ourselves become the “old ones,” that could have ended up being the very first Star Trek movie! There was a project in place, but Hollywood pulled the plug. And then post-Star Wars, whichever studio it was went with a different first Trek movie. I’ll try to pull a link on this.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

“ . . . The crew find the surface of the planet to be a wild and inhospitable, with cities encased in walls of fire. Spock is reunited with Kirk, who has existed as a wild man with other trapped beings. When the landing party reaches the rulers of this world, they discover them to be no benevolent Titans but a lower and incredibly dangerous lifeform called the Cygnans. The Titans have long disappeared.

“In an attempt to escape from the Cygnans, who have transported on board before the saucer lifted off to rejoin with the ship, Kirk plunges the Enterprise into the black hole to save the Federation from this hostile species. During the trip through the black hole, the Cygnans are destroyed and the Enterprise emerges back in orbit around Earth. But it is Earth at the dawn of time, and it is revealed the ancient Titans were in fact the crew of the Enterprise!”

Planet of the Titans: The Star Trek Film That Wasn't — Forgotten Trek

Before there was The Motion Picture, there was Star Trek: Phase II. And before there was Phase II, there was Planet of the Titans.

forgottentrek.com

And the name of this never-made movie was “Planet of the Titans.”

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Is It Time to Scrap SETI?

abcnews.go.com

Making the point that SETI works best for deliberative beacon signals.

from 2004:

“ . . . Newman and his colleagues argue, any advanced civilization that has used wireless communications for even a few decades would surely have figured out that it makes sense to encode.

“We're already doing it, and we're just barely in the communications age. . . ”

“ . . . Yet much of the SETI literature does suggest that ordinary communications signals might be detectable. . . ”