Featured Pam Reynolds near death experience: Real or hallucination?

[AgnosticBoy]

Dr. Michael Sabom, a cardiologist, describes Pam Reynold's case in great detail according to the article in my previous post. BUt what I'd want to know is how did Dr. Sabom come across his information. Because it wouldn't be that convincing if all of his knowledge about Pam Reynolds case only came from her. Like any good investigator, I would have wanted to have some corroborating information instead of just word-of-mouth. It turns out that he did have access to some of her medical records:

Spetzler did not check out all the details, but Michael Sabom did. Sabom is a cardiologist in Atlanta who was researching near-death experiences.

"With Pam's permission, they sent me her records from the surgery," he says. "And long story short, what she said happened to her is actually what Spetzler did with her out in Arizona."

According to the records, there were 20 doctors in the room. There was a conversation about the veins in her left leg. She was defibrillated. They were playing "Hotel California." How about that bone saw? Sabom got a photo from the manufacturer — and it does look like an electric toothbrush.

How, Sabom wonders, could she know these things?

"She could not have heard [it], because of what they did to her ears," he says. "In addition, both of her eyes were taped shut, so she couldn't open her eyes and see what was going on. So her physical sensory perception was off the table."

Source: NPR

(Dr. Spetzler was Pam's neurosurgeon)...

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Can we at least agree that this is a well-documented case?! : )

No. Only a well-documented death.

The correct items are not very impressive—

a classic rock song,

remembering a nurse saying “her arteries are too small” [when Pam might remember a nurse saying the exact same thing about her veins when she did an IV on her]

remembering that the handle of the “Midas Rex bone saw” is shaped like an electric toothbrush handle [both are probably designed to sit easily in the hand].

And the article doesn’t tell us whether there are misses. A really intense experience, I bet she wanted to talk a bunch.

And that’s the way an urban legend grows and is retold, the misses are left out and forgotten, and the hits tend to be made better.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

And then I’m going to ask, with a pretty large number of near-death experiences, aren’t we going to have some stunning coincidences just by random luck?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

And then I’m going to ask, with a pretty large number of near-death experiences, aren’t we going to have some stunning coincidences just by random luck?

All valid points. I think like UFOs, 90% of ndes cases are likely explainable as a natural event. But they may be 5 to 10% of the cases that are unexplained and seem to suggest something more might be going on.

I suspect some skeptics are only against ndes only for ideological reasons. That is, they don't like the implications of an afterlife.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I suspect some skeptics are only against ndes only for ideological reasons. That is, they don't like the implications of an afterlife

I’ll raise my hand and plead guilty on this one!

When I left Christianity at age 15 after about six months of worry and emotional and intellectual trauma, I worried about hell for a while. And I worried that other spiritual beings might be just as quick to take offense as the Lord Jehovah!

I had a bit of a relapse at age 19 when I met some brainy, intellectual Christians at college, and more power to them.

So, yeah, it’s kind of settled thinking for me. And now at age 60, no, I don’t really have a strong motive to review this.

—> My main motive for participating in TAF The Agnostic Forum is to help providing somewhat of a soft landing for other people who are leaving religion. Plus, to have some good conversations.

All this said, sometimes the idea of death and

nothingness

scares the crap out of me. I’m sorry, but it does!

Heavy metal music helps some, such as Avenged Sevenfold’s song “Acid Rain.” Plus, some of the writings of the philosopher Derek Parfit.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I'm also in a similar boat except I see it steering back to some aspects of Christianity or religion, in general. I would say that as a non-believer, I'm coming out of the closet to say that I now believe in life after death, but really that's just a return to a previous belief, although for different reasons. I can't get over Jesus' resurrection, NDEs, and consciousness being more than just the brain.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I'm coming out of the closet to say that I now believe in life after death, but really that's just a return to a previous belief, although for different reasons

I wish you all the best on your spiritual journey!

 

[Data]

I’m open to the idea that your experience of seeing ghosts was very intense, just like my experience of briefly seeing a UFO. Your experience may have been more intense than mine.

It wasn't intense. I don't think a UFO experience would be intense either. Maybe that's just me personally.

I’d still say there’s a thousand potential explanations. As one guess, maybe low blood sugar + being “primed” by hearing someone talk about activity in a specific locale + something akin to a waking dream.

The thing is, when you start looking for practical explanations for something that isn't practical you're only trying to convince yourself that something impractical can't happen. To me that is like religious superstition, only in reverse.

So, like I said, I didn't know what to make of it. I had several experiences like that during my life. Some of them have had practical explanations and others haven't.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

The thing is, when you start looking for practical explanations for something that isn't practical you're only trying to convince yourself that something impractical can't happen. To me that is like religious superstition, only in reverse.

So, like I said, I didn't know what to make of it. I had several experiences like that during my life. Some of them have had practical explanations and others haven't.

I like this. Some things have a practical explanation, and some don’t look like they do. And maybe just don’t.

And I just need to take a deep breath and accept this.