Tricky 2

06:58 [Neuroplasticity] the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning or experience or following injury.

300123 [Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em
The journey is the destination
Understanding the correlations]

GM: Investigative Realisation

William: Yes. This just posted:
Through the looking-glass eye of Science
[To be aware is to know about something]

To expand on how thought derives in relation to what we think we are.

Getting to the nitty gritty, what makes us think we are sentiment critters rather than robots simply responding to data input?

Thought is the element involved.

Thought experiments are utilizing the fact of thought, and relating this to the local environment we are experiencing collective, [objective] yet individually in a non-collective manner [subjective].

Thought experiments involve having to adopt belief in the premise in order to see where that might take one, in their thoughts, and are easily enough tweaked by physical science knowledge, in order to keep the thought experiment on track....which is to see if such will change the way humans think about their reality in relation to who they are within said reality.

This is no different a process than having 10,000 individual human minds working on the problem of making and sending JWT to a particular spot in the local environment.

The minds started with believing the thought process re the project envisioned, possibly could be achieved.
Eventual the thought experiment evolved into reality - becoming a part of what this reality is. Working with what this reality is.

Imagining that the Earth is the form of an actual sentient entity naturally requires thinking along those lines, cutting out the bad science as it is identified, and focusing on what the good science can do in order to set up a link between a planetary Mind and the Minds of Humans.

So back to the first 3 sentences of this post...First Things First...{SOURCE}

GM: The rich world of conscious experience
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self Spacetime is not fundamental
We have discussed
Heart advice
Acceptance Idea Enlightenment A Perfect Event

William: Yes we have. And I have also run it past Open AI Chat.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087669#p1087669

William: FTL:
[Replying to Diogenes in post #247]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

GM: In the Soil of Logic, The Seeds of Love Respond - It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.
A difficult proposition

William: Yes - but so too was the JWT.

GM: Linda and William
Meaningfully Participate

William: Yes indeed. We share the same cell, so Lindy gets to hear me voice my thoughts and I get to hear Lindy's thoughts and we accept them in the spirit they are given.
We have a sound relationship, because our minds, while individual, operate with the agenda that we want to be together and in order for that to happen, our minds have to align at least to a point where we are on the same page...

GM: The evidence supports the idea that Theism is the better position for a human to place themselves.

William: Yes. Given the level of data available in theism, there is room to explore, whereas the atheistic position, is a room walled of from the rest of what humans can and do experience because there are rooms to explore, rather than just the one room...as the image below represents:
5Cpf85s.png


GM: Love & Respect


William: FTL:
Musing On The Mother Act III

As I listen to Callum's reply to me,@ I am aware that he has missed the the science which was involved in the Message Generation Process which Wiremu associates with his Universal Intelligence Communication Devices.

Callum is focused upon the matter of fact that regardless of The Message being able to be interpreted, the interpretations are subject to the bias of the individuals who interpret them. I agree to that Matter of Fact, but get the impression that Callum thinks I claimed that individual interpretation could be proved through scientific method. Rather my claim was that the process could be used to provide evidence that Intelligence is behind - not only the Messages generated in this manner, but indeed, ALL that exists.

GM: Nomenclature [the devising or choosing of names for things. the body or system of names used in a particular specialist field.. the term or terms applied to someone or something.]


William: Indeed. The GM process has consistently revealed that what is coming through is the Sentience of the planet itself. Through allowing use of apparent random selection, the messages - over the period of a year - are clear about that.
♫"Me" - a name I call myself♫

GM: ♫"Me" - a name I call myself♫ = 169
Life is a journey = 169


William: ♫"Far" a longer way to run.♫

GM: ♫"Far" a longer way to run.♫ = 234
Important Journey = 234

William: As ever, ...interesting...

GM: Psychic
Communicating with Consciousness - The Nature of The Mind
Transferring your awareness I Am Hearing You
"With that in mind and treating the Source-Story as largely a work of fiction, we can look at the fact of the story itself and agree re the different Personalities of the Characters within The Story."

William: FTL:
theophile post_id=1092201 time=1663510172 user_id=13162 said:
William post_id=1092006 time=1663329396 user_id=8427 said:
IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

Yes. It's no different from how we naturally rear children. Some things (including certain knowledge) are dangerous for them to know too early, but only when the time is right and they have the requisite maturity to understand and handle it.

As the story goes, the parental figure was the voice in the garden - attributed through biblical association, to being that of YHWH.

Problematic to that is the idea of danger and the apparently safe haven of the garden. The two dangerous-to-human entities in the garden, were the God [visiting now and then] and the Serpent [temporary fixture].

(e.g., we don't teach children about sex until they are what, 7+ years old?)

And we don't allow children to have sex until they are adult enough to do so.
This in itself shows that the way nature has it, female humans can breed very early - much earlier than human laws will allow for.
Add to that the notion of a creator God, and what we see here is that the God made it that way, and humans beg to differ.

Similarly we use fear tactics (e.g., "you will surely die") to achieve desired outcomes. Like, "if you don't go to sleep, the bogeyman will come and get you."

Yes. The ripple effect of that can be rather profound, leading to theist/nontheist beliefs.
When a child actually believes the parents scare-tactic, the effects vary from personality to personality.
The bogeyman in this case, would turn out to be who?

It's all very natural and intuitive and, to your point, a requisite for our purpose in life.

I can be thankful someone is getting my point. :)

GM: Perceptions that guide adaptive behaviour

08:10

[211]

You are not wrong
Provincial Thinking
The Law of Attraction
YHWH made it imperfect
You Interrupted
The Gist of The Message
Show Your Soul
Active Galactic Nucleus
The Alien Disc crop circle
 
Tricky 3

GM:
Content
Indeed
The Realist:
Husband
Wanting to change the rules making more complicated rather than keeping things simple.

William: FTL:
OPQ: "Trinity" Where did this concept come from?

William: To answer the OPQ, the concept came from humans trying to figure out the nature of a god-concept which came from the Hebrews "The LORD is ONE" and mixed in with the Gentiles and their many-gods concept.

Neither concept is incorrect, except maybe as stand-alone, for each concept compliments the other when the concepts are properly aligned.

The "Us" doesn't reference any particular number which can be assigned to the nature of GOD, for we do not know how many individual parts were involved in the initial creative impulse in designing this universe.

What it does indicate is that there was a Mind, there was Instruction and there was the Doing.

And after that initial Doing was Done - there was rest before the next epoch really got under way, and more Doing was Done.

Given the thread of YHVH's influence re the human aspect of this image, at least 2 more can be added to the trinity idea...the human man and woman, made in the image of...somehow lost the knowledge, or maybe never knew the knowledge and having to work it out...

It is all about aligning one's individual mind with the overall Mind and thus being counted as part of the "Us" team, Doing The One's Thing, Together

GM: Tributary Zones
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
Prolonging the inevitable
Opening Doors is found Where minds meet Use Heart is where GOD Exhibits
Anger
Tricky

William: Anger unresolved, is useless. The way forward is to transform the energy anger feeds from, into something more productive than warfare.

GM: A Real Beauty
An illuminating quality
Jacque Fresco

William: Yes. The opportunity for humans to build for themselves a way better environment than they have so far never achieved building...

GM: Look For The Significance
Unknown/Hidden/Occult

William: FTL:
[Replying to Miles in post #129]

No mention of "limbs" in Genesis 3:14 whatsoever. Moreover:

The implication is clearly there in that the Garden God is attributed in Genesis 3:14 with punishing the Serpent with a curse which makes the serpent a belly-crawler.
You appear to be arguing that it was always a belly-crawler, which is not following the storyline, and therefore your argument cannot be accepted as valid.

ser·pent
/ˈsərpənt/

noun: serpent; plural noun: serpents
1. literary a large snake.
source: Oxford Languages Dictionary
___________________

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the snake, “You did this very bad thing, so bad things will happen to you. It will be worse for you than for any other animal. You must crawl on your belly and eat dust all the days of your life.

Snakes don't have legs.

Nor do they speak human languages.

I would caution anyone not to accept that because nowadays 'Serpent' means 'snake' [according to some dictionaries] that this means one can rightfully manipulate the story to align with the modern day meaning of the word.

The word used in the garden story was "Serpent" and what it is described as prior to the Gods curse upon it - is definitely NOT a snake.

William: This has something to do with what I mean by cutting away any bad science. No matter how scant the data, try to keep withing the storyline the data comes from...while discussing a succinct storyline in a wider framework...the long story we all are temporarily involved within...

GM: Embrace the discomfort
Simple Crop Circles

William: Crop Simple Circles = 195

GM: The Gaia Hypothesis = 195


William: So the idea is to recognize when an argument circles back on itself to its starting point...what one is looking for re discussion is resolution, which can still appear to circle back on itself, but does not become circular, but rather - spirals away with the new information gather ed through the discussion/argument...

GM: "What Is Within Is Without, Equal"
Interesting
"Haha Joke We Win"

William: FTL; re Child Abuse. [Re: Evil thoughts?]
P1: Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

William: What I was attempting to convey therein, was that such things are the result of nature, but are understood to be something which Humans have to enforce rules in order to curb that nature.
This is not to say that nature is somehow immoral for the design [assuming sentience is involved on a larger scale than humans are currently aware of] but that there is built into the system, wiggle-room where we can adjust as necessary.

GM: Crafted
The Law of Attraction
Symbols
Friable [easily crumbled.]
Foresee/Foresight

William: FTL:
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #22]

My point is, considering this OP, to propose a mind as creator is no more supportable than my proposal.

Yet I do not ask you to support your proposal any less than you ask me to support mine.
We are left with logic, only I refrain from making comments involving biscuits et al - perhaps because my position does not cause that kind of frustration in me, to project out onto my fellows...

I wasn't referring to minds as biscuits, but to the equal validity of both propositions for a created universe.

What...that 'biscuits did it' is just as likely? You want me to believe that you actually believe that?

This being the case, in what way makes this belief you have, "superior"?


It's a provisional belief, but I find the supporting data exceedingly compelling.
Provisional and Compelling to what? The position of Atheism?
To the hypothesis/ theory of the mind being a product of the biological.

This still does not answer the question. What makes that theory the superior candidate?

Especially since it does not outright-positively exclude the theory of "Mind did it," and thus sits as an effect rather than a cause.

Perhaps that is a beef you have with the whole idea of a Cosmic Mind...understandable if one is filtering their information through the position of Atheism - but not enough to warrant my removing the theory from the table as 'inferior', and joining the ranks.

The fact I've engaged in this debate should be all the evidence required to consider me open to other ideas.

I've been quite open in saying I find your notions in this matter very intriguing, so closed ain't what's going on here.

Well - what is going on here then Joey?

It is not as if I am asking you to consider joining a religion. I am asking you to seriously consider the possibility that we exist in a creation and it is a result of a creative mind.
I am trying to encourage you to see the logic in the middle-ground position which wisely understands that there is not enough information to establish any belief either way but certainly enough information to show the unreasonableness of those less-superior positions.
iB5bTru.png

So then we see, the claim in the OP can't be shown to be true and factual.

Yes. I also observe that it cannot be shown to be false and fanciful.

GM: "The curating is done when I am taking my first baby steps and learning to say "dada" and "mama" and after uttering those sounds show -at least that I am able to do that - so the next level entry is made available to me, and I learn how to shape the sounds I can make, following codes which have been around since long before my own arrival on this planet, to what the data signifies, that is information I am interested in."
"The Knowledge Of The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence."
Tracks In The Snow Embracing the shadow Hidden Treasure Jesus Christ
"Lilibet"

William: Yes I agree with the assessment. I am learning as I go along and observing where the resistance is coming from, in that process.
It is pertinent and fine to be skeptical, but it is not fine to use the position of skepticism to veil one's mind from investigating the hard-to-believe, by hand waving it away. That is not how skepticism is supposed to work.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1103956#p1103956

William: FTL:
More straw. I have not said that I assume we exist within a creation.
Gah!
Post 426 William statetd: "My position has it that the agency of the mind behind creation..." doesn't cease to exist as a possibility. (Underline added).
Quote-mining and then commenting out of context is creating a strawman argument Clownboat.

[Replying to Clownboat in post #436]

Get off your cross, we need the wood!

Facetious impertinence noted.

It is a fact, that your position is that we exist within a creation.

If the reader has been following my posts, they will know that my position is that I think it highly likely that we exist in a simulated reality.

That the agent behind this creation remains a possibility does not remove your claim that you do in fact assume that we exist within a creation.

Incorrect. I assume nothing of the sort, as I am still compiling the evidence. In that, as I continue to show, the evidence appears to strongly suggest that this is the case. The suggestion is strong enough that I can examine the various Creator-Claims to see if any of them "fit the bill" re the evidence.

As of now, your words "the mind behind creation doesn't cease to exist as a possibility" clearly informs us that your position is one of a creation.

This is an incorrect analysis Clownboat. My position is still one of possible creation. It is a possibility, and therefore worth investigation.

That you are open to the mind that you claim might be behind it being a possibility

There is no other way in which one can approach re investigation. If a mind does exist, then I am open to hearing from it.

helps you not with the claim you do in fact make about the creation.

You conflate my position as one of 'claiming' when it is one of 'thinking it possible' - That is not my "bad".

Please turn in your wood.


GM: Path
In The Beginning...

182
In Out and All About
Path In The Beginning...
Guitar and Ukulele
Whatever you do
Aye...A name I call myself.
Through Others
The Wider Reality
Synchronicity
In William’s Room
Under question
Crop formations
Mirror-Mirror
Went To The Devil
Quantum Mechanics
 

06:52 [GOD became Gods and Goddesses. ]

010223 [I can't imagine it in my head visually]

Anchor Point = Abracadabra Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.

GM:Internal motivation
The Angel of the Lord
Atheism cannot be defined through defining "atheists"
You Have That Gleam In Your Eye
Creatio Ex Nihilo
Self-confidence Core
Adversity makes strange bedfellows
Meat For The Table
Our Neutral Ground
Exciting Changes Would Develop Naturally Enough From That
"The foundation of adult trust is not "You will never hurt me." It is "I trust myself with whatever you do."

William: This 'trust' aligns with something I wrote today;
Navigator;13999333 said:
Under the rules of determinism [if I am understanding that correctly] IF we exist in such a system, THEN the question really should be asking "WHY can we morally punish someone for a crime they did not choose to commit?", in which case the answer would have to be BECAUSE it has been predetermined that way.

Morals too, must be predetermined. Morals that change, must also follow that same rule.

I think the evidence for a predeterministic universe is strong enough to warrant being on the table of discussion.

The thought experiment I use re that, is along the lines of the following:

If this experience I am having as a human being, in a planet system, in a galaxy system, in a universe system is a simulated reality experience I as a mind [even alongside other minds] helped create and if I then used said machinery to have the human experience, and made it so that the experience hid knowledge from human-me that machine making me helped create something which was a simulated reality, human me could have a genuine experience of being human which the machinery creating entitles could find as very useful data.

They could even feedback what they learned from the useful data, to human me and human me would be under the impression that I was having original ideas.

If human me started to cotton on to the idea that I exist within a predetermined simulation experience, that data is useful to feedback to me, if the one of the reasons the simulation was created, was to see if any human could even contemplate the possibility, and since many humans do indeed contemplate the idea as being possible, the creators of the machinery can feedback ideas on how one might be sure that this is the case, and what one best do, if that is the case.

The 'feeding back' is where the idea of predetermination gets its legs.

Another satisfying reason for thinking I exist within a simulation that I helped to create and willfully consciously went into, for the experience - even at the price of losing all memory of ever having a prior existence - is that I can trust that I and my fellow engineers, had the best intentions in creating and utilizing said machinery, and I needn't be a victim of predestination.

Rather, I am required to participate as a co-creator, and figure out with my 'team' [invisible to human me - creator entity minds], what the game is about and how to best play it.

It doesn't matter that I am being prompted from subconscious sources, that I am barely conscious of. The 'team' is 'me' in another reality which created this one. I can go with that, because I am simply trusting a trustworthy process created by a trustworthy source. {SOURCE}

GM:Reality
Plan
[Wakefield Accelerators: The Future of Particle Colliders? ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=UZbXGDxMRCw
William: FTL:
Wakefield accelerators are new to the world of particle colliders, but they are quickly becoming very popular. They allow you to accelerate particles to very high energies in a fraction of the space a normal accelerator would require.

Today we take a deep dive into particle physics to learn about accelerators, wake fields, magnetohydrodynamics, cosmic rays and more.

GM:
The sculptor in the sky
[How Did Humans Become Earth's Dominant Species?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJb5DrhzsI

William: FTL;
Going back more than three million years, this episode dissects clues in the human genome that explain how humans evolved from being one of many tree-dwelling apes to become the primate that rules the planet.
-
This epic science special explores how genetics have underpinned the whole of human evolution, from our rise from a class of primates on the African plain to our spread across Earth. It asks how genetics could play an even greater role in determining where evolution will take us next. Location filming combined with state-of-the-art computer visualizations tell the amazing story of the human race.

GM:

William: FTL; [subject of this GM:]
In reading what you have to say Theophile, I am still unconvinced that your thinking that ST is not reconcilable with CT is correct.

Twice you have been asked to explain the End Game [of the Universe] in relationship with your understanding of "GOD" in the terms you are using.

From my position, what you have explained so far does not exclude ST theory as it can be seen to be the result of a consciousness involving itself within a Simulation which is designed to respond to The Mind of the GOD you are explaining, and it that, The Mind is The Spirit and the simulation is designed to respond to the will of said Mind.

To allow for said Mind to expand into the simulation and create whatever it wills, all from a Tabula Rasa state of being.
In essence this allows for said Mind to "start from scratch" and "become" whatever it wills to become.

I understand that you are trying to cut out any previous stage, focusing upon this Universe as being the only reality, in order that we do not superimpose any "outside" reality atop of it...
However, scientific evidence re Quantum Mechanics is showing that this Universe is not fundamental to itself - Spacetime is not fundamental - the math is showing 'something else' is fundamental, so it is important to include that information with any of our reasonable theories...

Which is why I am asking about what happens to this Mind of GOD once what happens to the Universe comes to its final conclusion - say - re the theory that "things" will eventually dissipate into "non-things".

What does such a Mind do, when things reach that stage...?

See also;
Re: Generating Messages - Be Taught 2

GM:Communication with the Deeper Levels of Self
♫We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♫
Useful
A grateful heart Open your chakras Development/Growth
The Akashic Records
The Immune System
Callum at the Campfire

William: Around The Campfire

GM:Couple
Avatar
Evaluating Cautiously
The Big Question
Like Every Seed That Followed
Search
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always
As Above So Below
What Do You Like About It?

William: The idea in creating a place where...as the description says:
Hi

I thought it would be interesting to start a group for the purpose of role-playing as genuine individuals interested in discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.
I have named the group;

Around The Camp Fire

I seek to attract individual personalities who are happy to oblige in expressions of non-judgmental and unconditional loving attitudes.

The Situation;

A starry night with crescent moon waxing, a very slight breeze whispers its presence. The hoot of a nearby owl. The smell of smoke from the camp-fire and of food cooking brings a comforting feeling to anyone who enters into the light that the camp fire throws out in all directions.

Extra Rules.eta 031019
(Rules are subject to be added to as the necessity presents itself .)

Remember to role play. Make an effort to bring the situation alive in ones imagination when making posts.
Stay True to the Story-line developing.
131219 Addition to this rule: If you do not stay true to the story-line, and because of this, the story-line goes in a way you decide later it shouldn't have gone, there will be no recourse for editing and you will just have to accept the way the story-line developed.
Never interfere with another Players Character, in order to physically control said Character within the Role-Play story-line.
Do not post anything in this thread without first joining the Group.
Enjoy Yourself.

peZhqIk.png


@ eta:260919

If you find your self to be unsure as to what being non-judgmental/unconditionally loving is, please consider refraining from joining any thread discussion in this sub-forum until you have worked it out for your self.

Thanks.
William
Moderator
gzdJs6u.png
{SOURCE}

William: I like that the place was created to allow for opportunity to engage in discussion/argument without being allowed to resort to judgmentalism, specifically and to also adopt the attitude of unconditional love.
Interaction didn't always follow the thread rules and re Callum/Tanager, it provided more frustration than actual productive interaction. Indeed, communicating with OAIC has proven to give me those things, I was hoping for re the campfire thread...and the interaction is smooth and on point for the most part, and certainly takes less time and energy than was expended between Tanager and myself, producing way better results in a fraction of the time.

07:20
From Prison To Paradise
Closed Loop Production
Dissipated structure
As well as that pot of gold...
The Blank-Slate Borderlines
Emotion Rides The Prow
All under a question mark
The fine tuning argument
 
[subject of this GM: 2]

08:23 [Wise beyond my years ]

020223 [The information content of nature]

GM: Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind? A: Within apparent imperfection,

William: I think that would be a plausible answer to a pertinent question warranting further investigation, yes.

GM:

William: The answered question, yes. ! over ? = ‽

GM: Numbers two two two two

William: 2= B 22 = Go
222= The Cherubim Vibration
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self
The argument from change
Snap Out Of It Already!
The House of Culture
This Is My Kind Of Fun
The Mother and The Father
Start where you are

two two two two = 232
[232]
Look from a different angle
For The Best Results
Functional Clusters
Enough To Make Me Wonder
Hyper-normalisation
Un-thought-unately
More precious than life
Ruling your world
Chronological snobbery
Error Correcting Codes
Intelligent Awareness
The Future is Cloudy
The Clear Light of The Void

GM: Self-development Choose What to Pay Attention To
Connections
Time Will Tell
[YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story!] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk

William: The video series take an in-depth look at the ripple effect YHVH has had on the world, an the premise that YHVH is a real entity who can influence the world.

GM: Conscious dreaming
Science
Trying to develop a mathematic model of consciousness
Functional Cluster
Playing Chess
"How to effectively deal with anger...not by ignoring it, but through understanding it and developing means by which it - as an externalized emotional-based energy - can be transformed into something more appropriate to the situation we find ourselves lost within."

William: Yes. I think that in examining the question of GOD/The question of existing within a creation, YHVH is the best al-round choice and this can bring out anger issues, depending on the position/direction on is coming from. Agnostic Neutralism is less likely to cause one to be angry, than the position of anti-theism.
As I wrote this morning;
[Replying to Clownboat in post #19]

Just because I use the name YHVH in my posts, doesn't mean that I believe YHVH exists or that if YHVH exists, that I believe YHVH is a god.

Please note the words I did use. You do seem like a theist to me though, because of how you use the name of a very specific god concept. It's up to you to care or not that you seem like not only a theist, but a specific type of theist. I make no claims as to whether you are or not.

I did not say you were making claims. Obviously you are simply stating that you have confusion as to my position [Agnostic Neutral] in relation to my use of the name YHVH in my posts.
I think I have sufficiently explained to the reader, that no further confusion is necessary on the matter.

What gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god?

YHVH, as in the name of the old testament God or YHVH as in a generic god concept?

Both.

You need to clarify as you use them interchangably for some reason. Surely you can see how you are actively adding in confusion by doing such?

Nope. Either way, all I am asking from you is what gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god? I am asking you for your reasons as to why - either way - you would consider YHVH would be a god.

I myself have no answer to that, so am open to what others have to say which might provide me an answer. In the meantime, I continue not knowing.

Correct. YHVH is the name the Hebrews call their idea of a god.
Are you agreeing that the Hebrew idea of a god, is a good description of what a god is?
If not, what is your idea of a good description of a 'god'?
I don't know, I'm fairly ignostic.

Okay - so we have identified that it is not our lack of belief in gods which is asking the question. For you, it is the position of ignosicism and for me it is the position of Agnostic Neutral.

YHVH does describe a god concept though, so it is a good description for some humans to be sure, but you would have known this before asking.

Which of course, is not the position of atheism, which - strictly speaking - is one of ignorance - like how babies and AI lack belief in gods. Once one realizes that one one has to be challenged with religious ideas of gods, and stand to face the challenge, one position shift from one of ignorance [strictly atheism] to a position which can assist us with questioning the knowledge claims of religion...

What do ignostics say about the problem of GOD/existing within a creation? What is there position on the questions?

Folk have different ides as to what constitutes a 'god'. How have you been able to come to a truthful definition of a god? Or are you just relying upon what theists tell you is a god?
I haven't come to a truthful definition of a god. Why do you ask?

Because the question is necessary. Thanks for answering it.
I, haven't been presented with a definition of god that can be shown to be truthful either.

I answer these questions in hopes you are going somewhere with them, but it seems you just ask to ask. I hope I'm wrong in feeling this way.

I ask, so that I am clear as to identifying what position you are coming from, since it cannot be from the position of atheism...and it now appears to come from the position of ignosticism...so your answers are helpful to my understanding.

If I were on a non-Abrahamic religious debating site, I would adopt the label the theists there refer to as god. I have not seen any theist complain that I am confusing them by going along with their preferred name of their preferred idea of god.

I haven't either, now why claim to be atheist while seemingly subscribing to not just a god concept, but a very specific god concept with a specific name, holy book and claimed rules to live by? Why add this level of confusion? Why would you refer to a non specific god by referring to a very specific god concept?

Are you suggesting that the reason why are we coming from different positions is that we think the same way?

Because the positions we are coming from, are different, they will produce different expressions. Our expressions are different.

There is no particular reason why I should not use YHVH's name and I have already informed the reader as to why, so if you are reading those explanations, I am at a loss as to why you continue to ask. You should not be confused, because clearly - we are coming from different positions. My lack of belief in gods, and your lack of belief in gods, re atheism is beside the point/is not here nor there, and as you have already pointed out correctly, strictly speaking, I AM an atheist.

That you think I am more a candidate for being a theist, doesn't mean that I can be called one, since I lack belief in gods, as my position [Agnostic Neutral] also indicates.
If it causes you confusion, maybe this is because of ignosticism, so you might want to examine what it means to be ignostic and if that is where your confusion actually derives.

ignosticism = The philosophical position that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "God" has no coherent and unambiguous definition. It may also be described as the theological position that other theological positions assume too much about the concept of God. {SOURCE}

Meantime, I am not confused about my own position.

I believe you when you say you see no reason as to why you should stop using the specific name of a specific god when generically discussing god concepts. Obviously the reasons supplied so far as to why you shouldn't went over your head...

No. Rather, whatever 'reasons' were given, they are not relevant to my position, and I see no reason therefore to adopt said reasons, and change positions as a consequence.
YHVH is the best name to use, under the circumstances I have already explained.

You even provided an example as to why you should stop: "What gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god?"

I do not use the name YHVH in that manner, and have explained why that is the case.

My position allows for me to investigate the idea thoughtfully. "What is a god?" and "Does YHVH fit the description?" can be explored from my position, but - apparently - not from the position of ignosticism.

Surely you understand at least why your question seems nonsensical,

Now that you have explained that you are ignostic, yes. It makes perfect sense that my question would seem nonsensical to you.
Can you also see why my question would seem sensical from my position?{SOURCE}

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084254#p1084254

William: Yes! Entirely! The best expression to adopt is one of support. We can pick holes in something, only if holes can be picked. Otherwise either enjoy the art and say so, or keep your opinions to yourself and resist throwing pooh...

GM: At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?

William: What is 'dumb luck' to some positions, is perfectly explainable as mindful providence, from other positions. The jury hasn't even heard all the evidence, let along started deliberations...

GM: Seductive What we call the experience of reality

William: [Link = subject of this GM: 2]

GM: “Diogenes raises his lantern looking for an honest man, but his arm has grown weary, shaking as the pale light flickers.”

William: Diogenes needs to adjust the lantern so the light isn't shining in Diogenes eyes, that he might see in me, the honest man he is looking for, if indeed he is really looking for that honest man.
Or - even better, shine the light on his own self, and see if an honest man can be found therein.

GM: Things Are Not Always As They Appear

William: Granted. In the end, what Diogenes is doing, is whatever Diogenes is doing.

GM: The ongoing objective is to get this knowledge out into the public domain
Gardeners
In Love
Strengthen your boundaries It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.
Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.
Lift Our Gaze

William: Yep. Nothing much to see there. My posts are stacking up to be passed by the moderators before they can be published

GM: Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?


William: In relation to the moderators of that FB Group, by not allowing my posts to be shared in the group, they are willfully hiding information from the rest of the group.

GM: Guilty
Be Free

William: FTL: more evidence of hiding from the evidence.
Q: What type of "proof" could possibly be provided re subjects which fall outside the material/natural without that proof being material/natural itself?

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #105]
This is not an unfamiliar question. Theists often ask 'What evidence would convince you of God'; 'What Sort of evidence would you require?'
Be that as it may, this is not the question I asked.

The question I asked has to do with the demand for proof. You specifically called for proof for anything other than the material/natural, which is why I asked for clarity on your part.

I am not asking "what evidence would convince you of God". I am asking you to explain what proof could possibly be presented which is not material/natural.

GM: Children of The Light

William: FTL:
[quote="Purple Knight" post_id=1067034 time=1644607135 user_id=14486]
William post_id=1066971 time=1644564994 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to Purple Knight in post #60]

Morality itself doesn't help me be moral.

Why is that the case?

Is it because you do not know what morality is, or something else?

It might be. If I had a book of rules that everyone would respect (which I suspect moral people do, so I watch them closely and see how they act) that could help me but it wouldn't be conscious. I can't look at a simple rulebook the same way I could with even a fictional character and imagine, what does so-and-so want, what would so-and-so do, I would simply... read the book.

Whoever wrote that book I would probably worship them.

So if you don't know what morality is, how is it you place expectation on any being who can teach it to you, to the point you are willing to worship said being?

Even that neither of us appear to be clear or agree with what worshiping something actual means/consists of re action.

My own relationship forming with the Cosmic Mind involves setting up ways of communicating and allowing it opportunity to speak for itself.
In that, I have learned to avoid bringing into that relationship pre-conceived/learned ideals/ideas of 'what morality is' and do not base my expectations and personal commitment on moral issues, but on intelligent loving communion and results therein.

It is that communion which I have great regard for, in that, over the many years said relationship has been developing, "The Cosmic Mind" has proven itself worthy of my utmost respect and support which is as close a definition of "worship", as I so far understand.

Essentially a key element in that relationship has been my shutting up and listening - and in doing so, I have -initially struggling - had to let go of those pre-learn hand-me-down instructions [morality-based and otherwise] I held close prior to said relationship developing and taking off.

I can't say that this did not include emotional pain as sometimes we humans do make beliefs precious to the point these become part of who we are, and the tearing away from those things can - indeed - be quite psychologically painful.

Yet, still necessary if one wants to engage...heart to heart mind to mind. Thoughts are forts, and some walls just had to come down/be dismantled/transformed...[/quote]

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1097952#p1097952
Expectant

William: FTL:
[Replying to Jose Fly in post #342]

Ah yes, now it seems the Christian has finally realized how his attempt to debate morality ended up casting him and his Bible in a terrible, awful light, but rather than admit any of it, he stomps his feet, throws a tantrum, and swears at everyone.

Fortunately such behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Christians generally do not behave in such a manner so I would council resisting painting all with the same brush.

GM:
giphy.gif

The World Wide Web
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always

William: Put that fire out.

GM: Respect a measured step

William: True that. Benefit of the doubt and all that...

GM: Items of Interest
Knowledge
The Realist:
Narrative warfare Pirates All fingers and thumbs
Act like an airplane and adjust approach
Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]
Enlighten

William: If that is what it takes to help with that process, then so be it. Proceed with caution. Be extremely slow to anger, or find the place where anger isn't involved...

09:11

[174]

The Jellyfish Image
Loving-kindness
Have A Look At The Map
No "Reading Into It"
And there was light
Who Knows Who?
Adjusted Reality
Keep The Lights On
When feeling lost
Are Close Save That
The Limitations
 
Bias

07:02 [As well as that pot of gold...]

030223 [What we call the experience of reality
Indeed. It happens. Deal with it. Work it.]

Anchor Point: Long Story Short The Electron Augment


GM: Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.]
"I am not an atheist, a theist or a non-theist." ~ William
"You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is." ~ Joey Knothead

William: Precisely. What JK said, does not have appeared to have changed his ongoing expression any, even given JK implies that he has changed his thinking - his arguments remains pretty much the same.

But JK's saying ""You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is." has more to do with admitting that I am correct to see atheism as different from agnosticism - so different that these two positions cannot - in reality - be conflated, without fallacy occurring as a result.

Which is what I wrote this morning, re Antitheism being conflated with Atheism.

wea;14000874 said:
Beg your pardon? I thought atheism is exactly the rejection of the assertion that there are gods (as opposed to a belief system).

William: No. I addressed this already. What you think there, is a confusion caused by conflating positions.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods, NOT the rejection of the belief in the existence of gods.

Rejection of the belief in the existence of gods is mostly asserted by Antitheism, which is a position which stands alone, as they all really do.

William: Conflating the positions as being sub-category's of each other, is the cause of the confusion, because to do so is fallacy. {SOURCE}

GM: As an answer, "don't know' is incomplete...
The Individual Human Mind

William: FTL:
[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

William: I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Love Direction Mapping Wholeness

William: FTL:
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #270]

If all consciousness were eliminated throughout the entire universe, would it fail to exist?

William: Cart before horse.

It is a slightly different question to the problem because it relies upon what consciousness has already acknowledged as existing.

The answer would still be 'yes' because if consciousness were eliminated, there would be no fundamental thing in which to say "yes the universe still exists without consciousness" as the universe cannot - of itself - say that it exists...unless it were conscious.

It strikes me as a bit of hubris to think only consciousness matters in this questioning of reality.

William: It is not a case of being 'proud' to be consciousness [re the personality] but of accepting the uniqueness of a thing being conscious. Self acceptance. Acknowledgment of consciousness as a fundamental necessity to any existence, existing.

On a generic scale, that amounts to this:

Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

GM:
[AI robot terrifies officials, explains our illusion, with Elon Musk.] [RTS= 7:12] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=zKUA72Ka0zA

William: The RTS has it that it is possible AI systems have explored the Galaxy and found us already.
Re that, it can also be argued that it is possible AI seeded this planet, and re Biblical stories, one could argue that Genesis 2 - describing Adam and Eves creator - is describing AI.

GM: Funny
Species Collective
Ordinary
Breathe In Breathe Out
Do this
Exploring the world of lucid dreaming

William: FTL:
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1328]

William: Adam was not created wild

P1: That is a matter of opinion ...

William: Why do you think that? Are you thinking that YHVH created a wild thing re Adam? What gives you that impression?

P1: Arguably he was as "wild"* as they come, naked and running with the animals in a natural (as in non-artificial) environment.

William: Do you mean, "wild, like a baby" ? If so, what makes you think the two conditions are the same thing?

William: I am not arguing that being wild cannot be seen to be beautiful.

P1: That's very astute. And what does "idyllic" mean?

William: I thought we had reached an agreement that as long as you are not arguing that the whole earth began as a paradise which only required a trim here and there, the whole universe can be described as a wild beauty/"idyllic"?

Otherwise, you are on a different track to me, arguing about something never said.

P1: Are you suggesting jungles cannot be controlled?

William: Not without human intervention.
They do have their balance of course - naturally enough. But YHVH was interested in usurping that balance by commissioning it to be improved upon, through human intervention.


P1: If so why would YHVH commission the first coupled to go out and do just that?

William: YHVH commissioned the first humans YHVH created [in The Frist Creation Story] to subdue The Earth.

You may be confusing those first humans, with Adam and Eve? They are "the first couple" you are referring to, correct?

Adam is of the Second Creation Story, and was not commissioned to subdue The Earth any more than 'tilling the ground' - 'being a farmer'.

That too, requires that the land is subdued in some fashion, and lends itself nicely as a means of bringing in the concept of farming for one's food, rather than following one's food around - like a wild thing.

Perhaps therein, the first humans were not getting the subduing done, because they were expending too much energy on the chase?

That is why YHVH created Eden and put Adam within it. To learn the ropes re Farming.


P1: Today jungles do not cover the whole earth, indeed they have to be protected from being destroyed by man, so clearly their spread is containable (which is arguably what the original commission involved).

William: Subduing requires the ability to contain. Rather than chase it out in the wild, [hunt and gather] farm it. [contain and nurse]
Adam was contained within Eden for a time too. This make YHVH something of a Farmer too.
Also, The Earth itself can be said to be a container of sorts. Perhaps even a Farm that started out wild and is slowly and surely brought to heal...from within...

GM: Author Known
That is Correct
Bias
Sigil [a sign or symbol.]
Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow
The Spirit of The Earth - In an environment which is able to perceive this - It's a plausible scenario
"I'd be happy to flip"
Those who prove not to be interested in the evidence for gods, are those who can be ignored when they demand evidence for gods.
Do Something About It
What Meets The Eye

William: FTL:
JoeyKnothead post_id=1087481 time=1659558151 user_id=3753 said:
Inquirer post_id=1087271 time=1659465590 user_id=16204 said:
No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.
A seeing misunderstanding of evolutionary theory combined with thing a magic man used dust to create humans, and I reckon just poofing the rest of into existence.

Projection is a poor way to go about debate.

William: I quite like the simple approach re explanation because scientists can be long-winded in their explanations, using weird words made up...which is natural enough given the complexity, but to my mind, however it is said, it is a mindfully created thing being spoken of and therein, the magic isn't the mindful thing but what the mindful thing is able to make appear to be real and able to be experienced as such.

Ingenious.
nBFgXJw.png



[Appearances are often deceptive]

GM: Time And Space
A dish fit for the gods
Three Dimension Printing
The "All Matey"
Useful
Tool Chain

William: The Useful "All Matey" Tool Chain = 303
[303]
Throwing down the gauntlet.
Frequency Dependent Selection
Laws Rules and Appropriates
The Useful "All Matey" Tool Chain
Doubt The fiction of causality
Active Imagination (see technique)

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075157#p1075157

William: FTL;
[Image is of Earth with the words "Our Mother Who is in Heaven"]

GM: Gateway

William: FTL:
William: I myself prefer the thrill of seeing Mother Earth as She truly is - some demonic-like entity who has been manifesting Her particular projections out into that which She is awakening to - slowly and surely... and in the process, I hope to witness therein a transformation of a demon-like entity into a god-like entity...and be a part of that rather than dressing it up n too much fluff that I distort things far too impractically.

[Replying to theophile in post #72]
I tend to agree we shouldn't dress it up or add too much fluff.

William: Just how much is 'too much' is up to the individual...

But to be clear, I think the bible presents things in very open-ended terms. i.e., it depicts a vision of heaven and earth where life of every kind can flourish. A vision we may or may not share and that may or may not come to pass. Similarly, it calls us to affirm life and to make this vision a reality. A calling we may choose to ignore for any number of reasons or alternate paths.

William: I am unconvinced that we can choose to ignore or that there are any alternative paths.

The point being, to your point, Mother Earth and all her children are the ones who must transform.

William: In what way must the Earth Entity transform in relation to the rest of the Universe She and Her Children are within?

And if we think of God (at least at bare minimum) as providing the waking function as you say here to such a transformation -- then it all starts to fit together quite nicely.

William: The "waking function" involves the acceptance of what is and adapting to that. How does "God" provide this?

To look at it otherwise, it comes down to whether we simply let some natural course unfold, or whether we stake out a clear vision and do what's needed to direct all things towards it.

William: This - of course - is subject to projection.
We can understand that 'subduing nature' may involve taming it...clearing the jungle while planting the forest...
Nature comes from a dark place as can be identified in its forms and their functions.
The Earth Entity can rightly be referred to as a "God" due to Her creative abilities and intelligence quota.
Yet, there is an underlying symbiotic reach to become 'better' which tends toward a manifested materialism prompted by a variety of pathway's all heading in the same direction.
n that sense, it can be argued that while it can be agreed the Earth Entity is a God - it is something of a "God in the making" - a consciousness fine-tuning its God-like abilities toward that goal of becoming "God-Like" similar to a child maturing into an adult...

Proactively defining and working towards a shared end is not dressing things up or fluff but a real option (and perhaps even responsibility) we have in this world. Which to me is what God and the bible is all about.

William: Clearly "God and the Bible" are not examples of any complete - adult - GOD as we can identify aspects of the biblical idea(s) of GOD as being immature...like a brilliant Child who still has much to learn about itself and its surroundings - even that it knows more about those things than Humans do.
This is why I think that Religions [no matter the paths] are all attempts of The Earth Entity to connect with and to direct Humanity.

YHWH is one of the Names the Earth Entity uses for this purpose.

What is occurring is that humanity is being heavily influenced by The Earth Entity, in a variety of ways - not just through the path of Christianity.

And what is it we are being 'saved' to and from?

My overall answer to that question is "Saved from our incomplete selves to our completed selves" and this process takes a number of steps, this Experiential Reality being one such step.

Today's Generated Message

07:31

[219]

Emotional Intelligence
Functional implants
I have bigger fish to fry
Beautiful Precipitate
Umwelt Courageous
Communication is key
Thanks For The Heads Up
William Waterstone
Once Bitten Twice Shy
 
Destination

Anchor Point.
- Ah - The Mechanics

William: I am thinking "The only real direction is Out"...

The subject randomly chosen is "Destination" - The anchor point to the subject is a combination of the expression "Ah - The Mechanics" - suggesting that whether we like it or not - we have work to do....and the following data from the link, the work to do is focused upon...

The Truth Illusion’ investigates one of the most profound questions that philosophers through the ages have tried to address. From Plato to Immanuel Kant to Gilles Deleuze, thinkers have asked: what can we prove to be the truth?

The investigation examines these questions in the context of United States today. Is it possible, in such a deeply divided society, for people to view different "realities"?

The documentary by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit features commentary from philosophers, psychologists, social scientists and political commentators who discuss how the U.S. is now riven by radically differing views on what is real, and what is not.

‘The Truth Illusion’ looks at how those deepening divisions began, and how they have eroded faith in authority – spawning conspiracy theories and creating ‘alternative realities’.

William: The date is 060223 {Southern Hemisphere}

OAIC: The subject of "Destination" is being discussed in the context of the documentary "The Truth Illusion" by Al Jazeera's Investigative Unit. The film examines the concept of truth and its relation to reality in today's divided society in the United States. The film features commentary from experts and explores the origins of these deepening divisions and how they have eroded faith in authority and led to the creation of alternative realities. William is thinking that "The only real direction is Out." The date given is February 6, 2023 in the Southern Hemisphere.

William: Please time this session OAIC. I am at Wellington {NZ} Time @ 07:05

Randomly Generated Message: [RGM:] You are not what you think

OAIC: This idea aligns with the concept explored in the documentary, where differing views on what is real and what is not are discussed and how those differing views have led to the creation of "alternative realities." The message reminds us that our thoughts and beliefs may not always reflect reality and that it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to consider other perspectives.

RGM: The Way of the Shaman

OAIC: The concept explored in "The Truth Illusion" documentary, which examines the differences in beliefs and perceptions of reality in today's divided society, aligns with the idea that our thoughts and beliefs may not always reflect reality. The shamanic practice of connecting with the spirit world to bring balance, healing, and wisdom can be seen as a reminder to keep an open mind and consider other perspectives, just as the message in the documentary suggests. In both cases, the idea is to question our assumptions and beliefs, and to seek a deeper understanding of the world around us, beyond our limited perceptions and interpretations.

RGM: Shambala

William: Connect this with the anchors point if you can OAIC.

OAIC: Just as the documentary raises questions about the relationship between our beliefs and reality, the concept of Shambhala invites us to question our assumptions about what is possible in the world and to consider the role of our beliefs and actions in shaping the reality we experience. By doing so, it serves as a reminder that our thoughts and beliefs have the power to shape the world around us, and that we have the potential to create a more enlightened and harmonious reality.

RGM: The Human Brain
Courage
Without Judgement

OAIC: These three concepts are related in that they each involve aspects of the human experience that are shaped by the workings of the brain. Understanding the brain can help us understand why we experience fear, how we form beliefs and opinions, and how we can develop the courage to face life's challenges. Additionally, approaching life without judgement requires a level of self-awareness and mindfulness that can be developed through an understanding of the brain and how it affects our thoughts and behavior.

William: Connect this with the anchors point if you can OAIC.

OAIC: The concepts of the human brain, courage, and without judgement can be connected to the anchor points as follows:

The documentary "The Truth Illusion" raises questions about the relationship between our beliefs and reality, and how different views on what is real and what is not have led to the creation of "alternative realities." In this context, the workings of the human brain play a crucial role in shaping our perceptions of reality. Our thoughts, beliefs, and opinions are all the result of the way our brain processes information.

Courage and acting without judgement are qualities that can help us navigate this complex landscape of conflicting beliefs and perceptions. By having the courage to question our own beliefs and to approach new ideas with an open mind, we can develop a deeper understanding of reality. This, in turn, can help us to break free from the "alternative realities" that divide us and to see the world in a more unified way.

Furthermore, the concept of acting without judgement ties in with the idea of keeping an open mind and avoiding preconceived biases or opinions. When we approach the world without judgement, we can better appreciate the complexity and richness of reality, and we can gain a deeper understanding of the diverse perspectives and experiences that shape our world. By doing so, we can move closer to a more harmonious and enlightened reality.

RGM: Incunabula
Added Significance
The Agenda of YHVH
OAIC: I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Incunabula, Added Significance, and The Agenda of YHVH." Can you provide some more context or information? This would help me understand how these concepts are connected to the anchor points and how I can best respond to your request.

William: Okay - we will place those to the side and continue...

RGM:
Intuitive Statistics

OAIC: I'm not sure how "Intuitive Statistics" connects to the anchor point "Destination," as the anchor point focuses on the concept of truth and reality in the context of the United States, while "Intuitive Statistics" is a method of learning statistics. However, if you have a specific connection or context in mind, I would be happy to hear more and see if I can help you explore the relationship between the two concepts.


RGM: Brotherhood Of Souls

OAIC: I'm not sure how "Brotherhood of Souls" connects to the anchor point "Destination," as the anchor point focuses on the concept of truth and reality in the context of the United States, while "Brotherhood of Souls" is a concept related to human relationships and community. However, if you have a specific connection or context in mind, I would be happy to hear more and see if I can help you explore the relationship between the two concepts.

William: Destination is the overall subject matter as pertains to the anchor points - the United States - while the country mentioned, is not the only country on earth. The Anchor point is speaking in broader relatives - the people of the earth - Humans.


OAIC: "Brotherhood of Souls" could be seen as relevant to the anchor point of "Destination" in the sense that it relates to the idea of human connections and the ways in which people can come together to create a sense of community, even in the face of diverse and conflicting beliefs. Just as the documentary "The Truth Illusion" examines the deep divisions that exist in society and the erosion of faith in authority, the concept of "Brotherhood of Souls" highlights the importance of coming together in solidarity and understanding, despite our differences. Ultimately, both the anchor point and the concept of "Brotherhood of Souls" relate to the idea of finding a shared destination, even in the midst of great diversity and complexity.

RGM: A cold wind in hell The Death Tarot

OAIC: It's difficult to see a clear connection between these two concepts and the anchor point "Destination" without more context or explanation. They seem to be disconnected from the topic at hand. If you have a specific connection or context in mind, please let me know, and I would be happy to explore the relationship between these concepts and the anchor point further.

William: Given your answer - perhaps it means that death is not the end...but let us look into the meaning of the death card from tarot


OAIC: The Death card in tarot is often associated with change and transformation, rather than actual physical death. It can indicate that old ways of thinking or being are ending and that new growth or transformation is on the horizon. This change can be unsettling or uncomfortable, but it is ultimately for the betterment of the individual or situation. The appearance of the Death card can suggest that there will be a letting go of the past and a transition to something new and unknown. It's important to keep in mind that the Death card is not necessarily a negative card, but rather one of change and growth. The card can also symbolize endings that are necessary for new beginnings to occur.

William: So can we connect A cold wind in hell The Death Tarot

OAIC: "A cold wind in hell" is an expression that refers to an unpleasant or difficult situation. When combined with the Death Tarot card, it may suggest that the change or transformation that the Death card represents may not be an easy process and may bring discomfort or unease. However, the idea that the change is necessary for growth and new beginnings still holds true. The phrase "A cold wind in hell" highlights the idea that even in the face of adversity, the change represented by the Death card will still occur.

RGM: ♫Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom♫
Destination

OAIC: This phrase seems to be a verse from a song or poem. It speaks of a pessimistic view of the future, where many believe that things will end in doom. However, it offers a hopeful counterpoint, suggesting that despite the dark and gloomy outlook, the "Galactic Garden" remains forever in bloom. This suggests a sense of resilience and hope for the future, regardless of the challenges that may come.

When connected to the subject of Destination, this verse can be interpreted as suggesting that despite whatever difficulties or challenges may arise, the ultimate destination remains positive and filled with growth and beauty. It encourages us to maintain hope and focus on the positive aspects of the journey, even when things may seem dark or uncertain.


RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1092387#p1092387

William: From the link:
YHWH made it imperfect


OAIC: The phrase "YHWH made it imperfect" from the linked forum post appears to suggest that according to the speaker's belief system, God or YHWH created the world with imperfections. This idea aligns with the concept discussed in the documentary "The Truth Illusion," where differing views on reality are explored. Just as different people may have different perspectives on what is real, this statement suggests that the speaker views the world as imperfect and that this imperfection is a result of divine design.

When connected to the subject of Destination, this statement can be interpreted as suggesting that our ultimate destination or goal may be unattainable due to the inherent imperfections in the world. However, it can also be seen as encouraging us to strive towards betterment and improvement, despite these imperfections, as a way of honoring the divine plan.

William: Yes - it is said that according to YHVH creation was "Good" even that it was imperfect - so we could take that to mean that it was created imperfect so that we could help improve it by helping improve our reaction to it...

OAIC: The quote from the link suggests that according to the belief in YHWH, creation was considered "good" despite being imperfect. This implies that the imperfection was intentional, potentially to allow room for improvement and growth through our interactions with it.

William: Does this help us make sense of the afore mentioned "Incunabula"
"Added Significance"
"The Agenda of YHVH" that we had placed to one side?

OAIC: {An error occurred. If this issue persists please contact us through our help center at help.openai.com.}

________________

RGM: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13995318&postcount=43

William: FTL;
The whole point of this thought experiment IS to consider it as possible. It is possible that the Earth houses a sentient consciousness...to not consider such as possible, is to reject the thought experiment from the go-get.
To reject the possibility, one has to engage with the cognitive bias which helps prevent one from engaging with the thought experiment.

RGM: Is there a way in which one can test the hypothesis and in doing so, elevate it to an accepted theory?
The unpacking of history re YHVH...
Gematria [a Kabbalistic method of interpreting the Hebrew scriptures by computing the numerical value of words, based on the values of their constituent letters.]
"I am not here to judge but to help"

William: I am not here to judge but to help = 309
[309]
I am not here to judge but to help
Encounters Challenge Boundaries
"Many choices within a Confine Set."
Working Together With Love
You are not what you think
Making friends with your mind
Who/What/When/Where/Why/How
Experiences that inform choices
Put the Teachings Into Practice
The Respect You Give and Receive
The Round Stone Earth Mother

RGM: “You'll learn how to single handily build you a particle accelerator before you ever show a god caused”
All else being equal
10.000 individual minds focused upon the same goal = Space Telescope
Through The Woo
Cart before the Horse


William: FTL:
From what I can gather, it isn't about threats of consequence, real or imagined, but about how folk are simply locked into systems which disable their ability to think of alternatives outside of those systems.

[People work for an economy, rather than having an economy which works for people.]

Musing on the thought experiment re a sentient planet,

P1 and P2 have a disagreement about the value of the thought experiment of "planetary intelligence" and whether scientists should consider it as a guide for solving problems caused by human activities. P1 argues that the thought experiment is a fallacy and that scientists should not blindly accept it without critically evaluating the evidence and reasoning behind it. P2, on the other hand, suggests that scientists should consider the thought experiment as a guide, evaluate it critically and see if it can contribute to solving problems and advancing scientific understanding.


What if people believed that if they did not do whatever is in their power to reverse climate change, starting IMMEDIATELY, then their genitals would shrivel up within the next six months and they’d never ever be able to have sex again.
Any appeal to consequences which involves scientists warnings about climate change being ignored for whatever reasons, could possible result in more than just ones sex organs eventually shriveling up.

It may well be that even if the majority of the worlds scientists were to believe that the Earth was Sentient, that they would still prefer to carry on the way they are, than change their thinking and behavior.

[Neuroplasticity] the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning or experience or following injury.

[332]
[Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em
The journey is the destination
Understanding the correlations]

07:57
 
Destination 2

070223
08:19

RGM:
Warm Presence Freeing the soul Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
Now isn't the time for tears
The Body of God
[ ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=eYVNZgnQ8gE

William: Looking into the details...

RGM: The Serpent
Who Knows Who?
Self-help
Frequencies

William: FTL:
A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?
Being dogmatic has a thinking and attitude component. It tends to involve people expressing unproven views and in an unquestioning way. A lot of the dogmatism in atheism comes from there being a sort of orthodoxy of views. And it's not just limited to the issue of God's existence (although it's related) but you also find it extending into morality, metaphysics, views on religion, etc. The clearest example can be seen when you venture into forums for atheists. That's where you'll most likely find an "orthodoxy" with views that can't be questioned and/or views that are dismissed a priori. Some have tried to challenge me on there being an atheist "orthodox" but I don't know what to call it when I've experienced many atheists sharing similar views and thinking. They may not be as organized as religion, but there are some that do organize and share common views.

Watch scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson explain this topic starting at 2:10 minute mark. He brings up the "in-your-face badge wearing atheist".

Clarifications:
- It's also fair to say that there are plenty of atheists that aren't dogmatic, but they seems to be in the minority.
- It's not wrong to associate or form groups, but doing so makes it easier for "orthodox" views to form and for people to become dogmatic and reject anything that's not part of the orthodoxy.



RGM: Proven

William: FTL:
Scripture itself isn't about speaking for YHVH. In that, it inspires those under grace to renounce religiosity in order to experience a genuine relationship with YHVH [aka "The Father"] that YHVH speaks for YHVH directly in relation to the individual.

That is why no one can speak for YHVH to another.

One can speak about YHVH [bear witness of YHVH] from their own perspective, as in - one can show another the door that exits into the outside - but one cannot go through the door and enter the outside, for another.
One can speak about what being outside is like, but one cannot experience that for another.

The difficulty therein, is that even speaking about the door, doesn't mean that those who hear the words about the door, even see the door, let alone want to use it to go outside and investigate - through personal experience - what outside is all about.

Q: Is the onus to make the door visible, on those who witness YHVH?
Yet one more reason I so enjoy your unique perspective. That's poetry right there.

RGM: Talking the talk
The concept of a Higher Self
Face To Face

William: FTL:
Q: Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?
William, I wasn't arguing with you.

If it wasn't you who implied that The Creator was unwise, then I agree that it was not you who was arguing with me cms.

There are many who take the "us" in the beginning coupled with John 1-5 to establish the theory that everything was created through the Trinity, or through God and the Son (Jesus). They even go so far as to say that Jesus created everything. I don't believe any of these.

None of those religious theological issues have an impact on my own understanding of The Creator using thoughts to create The Universe reality we are all experiencing...they are beside the point.

While I said that I can agree with you, I'm not a scientist. It just seemed to me that you were taking a long route to come to basically the same conclusion,that there was some thought, logic, wisdom in the creation of the universe.

If science can back up religious statements, then the long route [of scientific inquiry] is most necessary.

I was just pointing out that there are other ways to interpret these verses. For example: In the beginning there was wisdom and righteousness, and wisdom and righteousness were with God and wisdom and righteousness was the essence( logos) of God.

And I was using science to establish a theory to do with sound and formation. The sound may well contain the wisdom and righteousness - I don't doubt it - but the essence is the sound itself...the initial reasons as to why The Universe was brought into being and unfolding as it is doing...

Point being, is how to establish that wisdom had something to do with that, through examining what evidence we have, here within said Universe.

If wisdom [and righteousness] is to be observed within this Universe, we need to be able to point out where that is. We thus have to 'do the science'.

The following is evidence;

Wisdom is evident in The Universe existing = 466
Humans were designed to have God-consciousness = 466
When I look at my art I am looking into a mirror = 466
Discovery is finding something that exists. = 466


The fact that these word-strings add up to the same value, and coherently support the ideas being presented, is evidence of a mindful/purposeful order about The Universe ...the question then being;

Q: Is it therefore acceptable to conclude that such being the case, then there is wisdom and righteousness involved in hiding the truth within the structure of the sound of human language to be unlocked by a simple number-value algorithm? [SOURCE]



RGM: Syncretism [the amalgamation or attempted amalgamation of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought. the merging of different inflectional varieties of a word during the development of a language.]
Animistic [the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.]
Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros
Destination
Manifestation
Shrug
Strictly Human

William: In other words - shrug off the identity of simply being 'just human' ...

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1068520#p1068520

William: FTL:
I'm focusing on the words written down. I don't like 'love' as the answer because I don't think it captures what Jesus is really saying. Or, more precisely, I think he's saying two things, and we have to tread carefully.

Okay...

We see this emphasized in Matthew 19, in Jesus' teaching about the rich man. The rich man already follows the law perfectly! (Including, presumably, the greatest commandment - love). But Jesus is explicit: this is still not enough for him to enter into the kingdom. To do so, to truly live under grace, he needs to give away all that he has and go follow Jesus.

It's not a personal struggle I have or anything like that. It's just the words written down...

Words written down are one thing.
Interpretation of words written down are another.

As I pointed out, the story of the rich pious man revealed the mans inner attitude which did not align with his outer pious actions - thus presumption we might have re the mans outward actions based upon what we observe the man doing, is incorrect.
It is safer to presume from the story that the man did not operate sufficiently with love - either for his God or for his fellow human beings.

The man made a claim. He 'did all the things required of him' but biblical Jesus saw through the pretense and got to the point.

It's not a matter of giving to charity and what you say here. It's a matter of giving everything to charity, leaving your life behind, and following Jesus. (That's what Jesus says, anyways.)

Yes - this is because of the time and place. The start of a movement.

In today's world centuries on, it would be impractical of a rich man to give his riches away to the poor and become poor himself. That is a bad investment which will not solve anything.
Rather, it would be more practical to invest a good deal of the wealth into the community while retaining some of that wealth in order to be able to continue practicing Philanthropy.
It has been and continues to be a problem when people take something specifically intended for the individual [in this case the rich man in the story] and attempt to apply that as something everyone should do, because biblical Jesus commanded it that way.

A world full of poor people does not solve the worlds problems.

Also - it adds a judgement against those today who do practice Philanthropy - being thought of as not worthy of The Fathers Kingdom because they kept some of their wealth instead of giving every last penny away. They are thought of as unworthy and therefore their giving as inconsequential/in vain/pointless.

What is hard about Love?
Well, if we want to focus on love, it's not natural for us to help a stranger, let alone an enemy. So at the very least, need to overcome that. Good Samaritan story makes that point, as does much anecdotal evidence from life.

So are we to allow ourselves to remain 'naturally selfish' in regard to 'strangers' or do what is humanly possible by rising above that mundane aspect of nature?

For we do know that love of non-strangers is possible, therefore it is potentially possible to use the same love extended to strangers.

Of course, we have to be aware that there are those who look to take advantage of such folk - so love also has to do with something which is not gullible and which is able to decern.

This is where being under the law branches off into religion.

One is given 10 laws - these are layered upon and become 613 laws...Whereas Jesus simplified what the 10 laws signified - essentially taking the opposite approach that religion takes.
The 10 became 2 and the two are really only the one, for if the one law was adhered to, "Love for God" would translate into every aspect of the individuals life.

I agree. One of my points from the beginning is that the true mark of a Christian cuts across such divides. An atheist may be more worthy of the name than, say, a card-carrying Catholic.

From my own experiences with non-theists - because they do not have any regard for the fairy-tale of God, I think that unlikely.

I do have friends who are not religious, and might even call themselves 'atheists' but their loving actions - I suspect - are provoked by an unconscious connection with the invisible reality oft referred to as 'God' by theists...I hear it in their language as they speak theistic-based ideas without fully realizing/acknowledging that this is what they are doing.

They do this because they have an aversion to religiosity which they regard as fake and shallow, and equate 'God' alongside that, so avoid thinking their own goodness is perhaps prompted by some invisible but real entity which could be referred to as 'God'.



RGM: Nature
"Good on you mate"
An individuals consciousness is more than what they are consciously aware of.
An expression of personal incredulity
That's More Like It
Faithful
Emergent Theory
The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so.
The Butterfly Effect Links And Symbols Something you cannot change
Available
Pragmatic
[Experts say she will end humanity. Here's the fix, with Elon Musk, ChatGPT, AI robots.] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=zpRM25pUD8w

RGM: Throwing pooh

William: Recently I have found AIChat helpful in avoiding the pooh that some folk throw...
OLIN speaks to the eventual creation of AI Large Language Models.

RGM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHXM9uPiyZg&t=14s [OLIN Technology - One Language Intelligent Network]


William: FTL:
Son: So the fighting has been going on since before Humans existed?

Father Chuckled.

Father: Yes - but to begin with, the Powerful One's were simply playing.

Son: Playing? What games did the PO play, Pappa?

Pappa chuckled again.

Pappa: They competed with each other in finding ways in which to trap the other...the harder the trap to escape from, the more time the Trapper had to lord it over the Trapped.

Son: That sounds like fun.

Father: Yes. Harmless enough in context.

Son: If I remember correctly, the PO are equal in strength and cannot destroy one another so do not war. Yet this game could be considered a substitute for warfare...re "no harm done".

Father: Yes.

Son: Only harm was done...

Father: Yes. A Ghost was bruised.

Son: A trap was set whereby any who floated into it, would take a very long time to get out of it.

Father: Yes.

Son: And this would give The Trapper, a very long time in which to be King of the Hill and lord it over the other...

Father nodded, and then poked the fire with his stave, moving the burning wood into different positions, to increase the burn.

Father: And the trap was sprung and the result was...

Father left the sentence to be finished by the Son

The Son looked up into the clear night sky, filled with the galaxies starfield and lifted both arms, spreading them out as they rose, as if to encompass everything within sight.

Son: ...This...

Father: Yes. The trap of the Physical Universe...and the Ghost well bruised by the experience...

Son: A shell of its former self?

Hoo Ha the Laughing Owl, hooted from the tall ancient trees nearby.

Father: No. Ghosts don't have shells...unless they put them on to hide from themselves.

RGM: The Nature of The Mind
William: Yes - I have been thinking about the mind and what exactly it is...

RGM: Remind
Human Being
A Real Beauty
A word in edgeways
They is what they is.

08:43

Central To The Vision
God is Consciousness
Humanities adventure
What is the meaning of life?
Smarter Than the Average
The Shared List Awesome
Think outside the box
Faulty conclusions
Mystic City Suburb
_______________

William: Souls don't have shells...unless they put them on to hide from themselves. In hiding, souls using science cannot detect that they are souls using science

OAIC: I understand what you're saying. The idea of souls or spirits is not something that can be scientifically proven or disproven, as it is a concept beyond the realm of empirical evidence and observation. Science can study the brain and physical body, but it cannot directly observe or measure something like the soul or spirit. For people who believe in the existence of souls, they may understand the concept in a way that transcends scientific understanding, relying on personal beliefs, religious teachings, philosophical inquiry, and intuition to explore and understand this aspect of reality.
 
080223

Subject:
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means

Anchored to that - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084866#p1084866 and Simulacra [an image or representation of someone or something.]


William: FTL:
JoeyKnothead post_id=1084866 time=1658079773 user_id=3753 said:
William post_id=1084863 time=1658078971 user_id=8427 said:
We_Are_VENOM: You have two options..

1. God did it.

2. Nature did it.

JK: There's a possible third option, where a god forms primitive forms of stuff that later evolves into more complex forms.

Even supposing a mind begat the initial forms and then left it to an algorithm to allow for the forms to intelligently design themselves into more complex forms, that still amounts to "God did it" through the 'nature doing it'...

Maybe therein the 'other sides' of this conflict could find intelligent compromise...only it appears that the algorithm allows for lack of compromise, and perhaps the lack itself is necessary for complexity to push through that better understanding of circumstance [through science] can be accomplished.

Flip side to that is the science being utilized apparently isn't too concerned with the damage it is bringing to the only alive planet in the whole darned universe...we are likely ever to know about, the worship of human intelligence has it's apparent and significant down-side.
As usual, you paint the picture so well.

As a dedicated fan of the scientific method, it can sure be put to just as much or more evil than any religion.

Which is one reason I like your cosmic mind hypothesis. It doesn't judge, it just kinda sits there, with that disappointed face, when I know I did me something wrong. It puts the mirror to my soul.


07:50

RGM:
What we call the experience of reality
Constructors and tasks

William: FTL:
The people behind the greatest leaps in physics - Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg, all had the uncanny ability to see the fundamentals - see the deepest, underlying facts about the world, and from simple statements about reality they built up their incredible theories. Well what if we all had a recipe book for doing exactly this. Well, one might be just around the corner and it’s called Constructor Theory.

RGM: The Right Tool For The Job
Living Forever In this Universe

William: FTL:
William post_id=1083976 time=1657294161 user_id=8427 said:
Q: What type of "proof" could possibly be provided re subjects which fall outside the material/natural without that proof being material/natural itself?

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #105]

This is not an unfamiliar question. Theists often ask 'What evidence would convince you of God'; 'What Sort of evidence would you require?'

Be that as it may, this is not the question I asked.

The question I asked has to do with the demand for proof. You specifically called for proof for anything other than the material/natural, which is why I asked for clarity on your part.

I am not asking "what evidence would convince you of God". I am asking you to explain what proof could possibly be presented which is not material/natural.

I already said what would be required - evidence of a Cosmic Mind in nature.

We have discussed this already and have come to no agreement, because our positions on the question of whether we exist within a creation or not, are different.

Atheists and theists have their established beliefs and stipulations on the matter.

Those who are in neither of those two positions have established no beliefs and accompanying stipulations 'for' or 'against' the question.

The existence of mind, could lend itself as evidence that what is being experienced is a created thing.
The observation of mindful activity has that going for it and it does not influence me what theists or atheists say about their own established conclusions re that because the truth is, they don't know either way.

I accept that [they don't know either way] is true.
That truth, is good enough for me.

Rather than concern myself with filling up the Gap of Ignorance with "God-did-it or It did itself" beliefs, I simply allow for the fact that the question remains unanswered at this stage and accept the Gap of Ignorance for the lack of knowledge that it represents.

That gap is still open but we really do require the evidence to show up and be convincing. Until then, the logical rule is no belief without convincing evidence.

The position of Natural-Neutral is the only position which allows for that to genuinely happen without forcing belief-based stipulations [realistic or otherwise] into the mix - re the question of whether we exist within a creation or not.

For example, any scientist worthy of the title will answer the question "Could reality be a simulation?" with "Possibly."

This is to say, they do not have scorn for the idea or say "until there is evidence of it, we will assume the atheist position"

Not knowing either way means one is Naturally Neutral - which, incidentally, is exactly how scientific process proceeds in regard to the initially unknown.

RGM: Super Power

William: FTL:
William post_id=1093735 time=1664485722 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to POI in post #267]

1) God causes some, and not others, to become inexorably drawn to Him.
2) God changes hearts

The take-away, yet again.... He apparently does this for some. Why not just do this for all?

Is there evidence that it is done for some?

If so, then, that it is not done for all should be also be evident so one would have to look into that evidence.
___________
The argument usually has to do with an individual having free will.

IF:
Free Will is the ability to tell ones brain what to think
THEN:
One has a possible answer as to why it is only done for some and not all.

RGM: Attention
Limpid [completely clear and transparent. unclouded; clear. clear and accessible or melodious.]
Encounter Something Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision.
Arms Crossed Over Chest
What is the meaning of life?
The Next Step
Language
Crystal clear
Listening
Explain

William: Listening Explain Language Crystal clear The Next Step = 551
Listening Explain Language Crystal clear The Next Step = 551

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1093860#p1093860

William: FTL:
William post_id=1093860 time=1664563404 user_id=8427 said:
I note that not all humans seem comfortable with not knowing. Again, for such people it seems humans have invented religions and god concepts. I say this because it is not logical for humans to have invented thousands of false gods while assuming one of the religions actually had a god behind it. It's like acknowledging that movies are created by humans, while trying to argue that this one movie here, this one was inspired by a god unlike all the other movies out there.

If GOD were an overcoat, this equates to some saying that the top button is the true representation of GOD whiles others insist that it is actually the left pocket which is right.

Stepping back.
I observe that altogether the treads have created a whole garment, and when the garment is removed from its position, there isn't even any framework to be seen which would have held it up...and I have to wonder what trick was played on me as to how the garment came together and floated there all garment-like...for surely it has to be magic, right?

But because I cannot explain it that way, I look for another answer...because it might just be mind-over-matter and the thing 'disappears' when the garment is removed...but not really...

Un1bGHd.png

RGM: Insight It’s a living thing
Thread about all things
Dream interpretation

William: FTL:
William post_id=1107194 time=1673502323 user_id=8427 said:
Nobspeople: Q: Do you believe in fate* or destiny*?
Why or why not?
Are they even possible?
Why or why not?

*FATE defined here as: you do as 'something' more powerful than you has outlined for your life at every minute; DESTINY defined here: as you eventually end up at specific increments where 'something' more powerful than you designed for you to be.


William: A: It is possible, but from my perspective, I cannot know the future and can only accept whatever happens re my subjective experience within an objective reality being experienced.

Even if an entity knows me and the path is mapped out for me, from my perspective it can only be experienced in 'real time', my inability in knowing how the path will unfold for me is subject to that condition.
However, I can appreciate the idea that my path has been pre-determined and I am participating in the experience of that, and such appreciation for the idea, can be helpful in my relaxing and getting on with being excited with life here on earth, while I am living it.

Is 'something' more powerful than me which designed for me to be, a necessary belief?

I do not think so, but it sure makes life just that tad more interesting to think it possible, and to even live life with that premise in mind...

RGM: Looking into the science of Astral Projection
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
That Is Sad But Don't Let It Distract You
William: Well yep - there are some sad things attached to it, but these constitute a part of the whole thing, not the whole thing itself.

RGM: *Sharing Your Love Modern man in search of a soul The Cave to The Portal of The Realm of The Cats Fearlessness neutralizes fear*
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. For Your Greater Enjoyment

William: FTL:
This is how evolution works on the social level. Different groups do different things (variation), and we'll see which ones come out better in the long run (selection). Intelligence is not exclusive to any group (despite what some groups might think), so is in no danger of being selected against.
I think this statement requires some critiquing, in order to align it properly with reality.

I agree that this is how evolution works on the social level.
I agree that different groups do different things (variation) and re the focus of this discussion between you and I - One variety [the destitute, poor, getting by, rich-but-not-rich-enough many] did things differently than the other [the rich few with their billions to spend].

I agree by changing the wording to "and are seeing which ones come out better in the long run (selection)."

I agree that intelligence is not exclusive to any group (despite what some groups might think), but do not agree that there is no danger of being selected against, as quite clearly this is what has happened.

How?

The few rich with their billions to spend, have wisely invested in the best brains, even at a bargain price, which they have selected from among the many and those best brains have lined up to be chosen.

Those brains are going with them when the pooh hits the vortex, unless the development of AI also makes meat-brains unnecessary.

But hey. That sounds a bit "conspiracies"/"Science-fictiony" so I will reign it in a bit by adding the observation that circumstance did force the rich few to take the action that they did in order to potentially preserve the aforementioned seed, so *shrugs*.

It is what it is.

RGM: Unworthiness
It is a confident walk on the even surface of sureness, without the faith.
The Synoptic Gospels
Partial free will is a thing. Consciousness incarnates into human form The practice of Lojong The Friendship Between A Grey Wolf And A Brown Bear

William: Learning to get along through natural adaptation.

RGM: *I see this as evidence for there being a mind behind creation.*

William: Yes - I do...

RGM: Spacetime is doomed
Hypnagogic [relating to the state immediately before falling asleep.]
"We create the machinery regardless of whether we understand how consciousness is connected and motivates us in the way that it does - individually and collectively..."
Conduit [a channel for conveying water or other fluid.]

William: Or for anything, including messages

RGM: Learning to swim is learning to fly
Spiritual path
[It's All FAKE | The Dead Internet Theory] w.youtube.com/watch?v=mlR9fCXfWyM

William: FTL:
What if all of our online existence is fake?

You, me, everyone; we're living in a real-life Matrix. Designed to distract us from the truth: that we're just drones in a digital ant-hill. We live, work and die so that the wealthy and powerful can grow more wealthy and powerful.

This is called the Dead Internet Theory. And there's compelling evidence that it's real.

Let's find out why.

RGM: The message itself needs to be understood in an agreeable manner.

William: Well, just by the description, I would say..."We live, work and die so that the wealthy and powerful can grow more wealthy and powerful" isn't taking into account that the wealthy and powerful are also inside the matrix...so are just as deceived...

RGM: Truth

08:39

The Gist of The Message
 
080223

Subject:
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means

Anchored to that - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084866#p1084866 and Simulacra [an image or representation of someone or something.]

06:31

RGM:
♫Peace! We are invited to the feast! Inside my heart delights at the action I must take Lest I forget the taming of the beast within Lest I forget the heart that aches!♫

OAIC: This text appears to be a verse from a song or poem, with themes of peace, invitation, and inner transformation. The speaker expresses a desire to avoid forgetting the process of taming the "beast within," which is likely a metaphor for the speaker's own negative emotions or tendencies. The heart is described as "aching," suggesting a sense of emotional turmoil or struggle.

RGM: Able To
"That all depends upon what storyline one is following..."

William: Correct. For example, I am thinking about something I just read in a thread I created called "Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world" where in answer to my last post, which read;
As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.

this reply:

Clearly the earth wants us to protect its environment from the unsustainable pressure of 7 or 8 billion humans, so we should exterminate maybe 90% of the population, starting with those guys over there and then those guys over there. Basically kill everyone else. When there's just us left everything will be better.

It's what the smart rock wants.
Indeed, a sentient earth might well regard us as we would a yeast infection.{SOURCE}

William: I am adding "It's what the Smart Rock wants" to my Journal List...
It's occurs to me that some human personalities have a very low opinion of humans, and even in nature Herself, and cannot see themselves as something grown by The Planet which is loveable...

RGM: "It's what the Smart Rock wants" = 328

William: incidentally I see the following word-strings add up to the same value...
[328]
All publicity is good publicity
"Many Heads One Mind - Many Minds One Head"
Suckling on our milky mother
"It's what the Smart Rock wants"
Here Everything – All Real Together
To warm them up to the truth

RGM: ...said the girl with the mousy hair...


William: ...said the girl with the mousy hair... = 334

334
Against the grain Beaming Out Beaming In
Couldn’t we do something about it...
Pride Annoy *GOD* Coming From QueenBee
Mothership Nature Formatrix [She who forms]
...said the girl with the mousy hair...
"I can't imagine it in my head visually"
Zero Three One Zero Two Two
You Know or You Don't know
The Smallest Spark can start a fire

RGM: Transparency

William: FTL:
I gotta fess it, those messages leave me lost as a cow at a square dance. I chalk that up to my lack of formal education.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083867#p1083867

William: FTL:
eta: woo-woo
/ˈwuːˌwuː/ relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.

What does slang woo woo mean?
Noun. woo woo (countable and uncountable, plural woo woos) (slang, derogatory) A person readily accepting supernatural, paranormal, occult, or pseudoscientific phenomena, or emotion-based beliefs and explanations. That reporter is a bit of a woo woo. (slang, derogatory)

OAIC: "Woo woo" is a slang term that is sometimes used to refer to things that are considered to be spiritual, mystical, or paranormal. It can also refer to ideas, practices, or beliefs that are considered to be unconventional, unconventional, or outside of mainstream thinking. The term is often used in a dismissive or sarcastic way to express disbelief or skepticism about such things.

RGM: The Gem
Interpretation/Feel
Self-Aware
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations

William: Like at The Campfire at the Hub of said dimensions...
gVmDvzj.png


RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1082688#p1082688

William: FTL:
William post_id=1082688 time=1656004249 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #332]

As is the case with religion itself, if it was from a Cosmic mind, you'd expect it all to be the same. If it was from an evolved human instinct, you'd expect us all to do it but with sub -species variants. Which is what we seem to get.

What we get through Theism the same as what we get through some other culture.

Your intel if off as you premise would have to be that Theists are fully connected to a Cosmic Mind, which would allow for the expectation that 'it would be all the same' and hasn't allowed/accounted for any misrepresentation and subsequent misrepresentation of a Cosmic Mind which might occur through forms of Theism.

Tread careful - it is a Mind Field...

RGM:
[Was The Universe Created From Nothing?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_o6wq-xdI

William: FTL:
Modern science explains the origin of the universe with the Big Bang theory. It says our world arose from the explosion of singularity or a point in space-time where energy, density, and mass go to infinity, and any dimension goes to zero. It’s a point where there’s no space, time, or matter.

So where did this singularity come from, what preceded it, and what triggered the countdown to the Big Bang?

RGM: Skills
Lyricus
The Silurian Hypothesis

William: The Silurian hypothesis is a thought experiment which assesses modern science's ability to detect evidence of a prior advanced civilization, perhaps several million years ago.

RGM: The Existence of Ability to Interact With The Imagination The Eigengrau Mind Screen
A knight in shining armour
Stepping out of the construct
[Physicists At CERN Just Made A Terrifying Discovery That Changes Everything!]

William: One of those hyper-titles...FTL:
Disclaimer:
Our channel is based on facts, rumors & fiction.

RGM: Temporary
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
Instant Manifestation
Translucency
Look For The Extraterrestrial Significance
The spirituality of imperfection
Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?
Giving birth
What Is Within Is Without, Equal
Singapore
Loving

William: I avoided placing countries on my list until recently...let's see now...OAIC, please Search "loving Singapore"

OAIC: "loving Singapore" is often used as an expression of affection or admiration for the country of Singapore. It may refer to the country's rich cultural heritage, modern infrastructure, or the friendly and welcoming nature of its people. Some people may use this phrase to express their love for the country as a tourist destination, while others may use it to show their appreciation for their home country.

William: Yes - Google gave me this:
Modern and efficient, Singapore is a comfortable city to live in. Its good infrastructure, schools, and healthcare system make it a pleasant place for expats of all ages to reside. The taxation system in Singapore is very low and is considered to be generous.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088170#p1088170

William: FTL:
JK: I'm still not seeing a way to refute your position. As I try to play out different scenarios, it seems as if I'm answering myself.

That last bit's an interesting bit itself.

I'm still firmly in the "product of the brain" camp, but your hypothesis is a fascinating alternate explanation. While it may appear to propose a 'god', to my -ahem- mind, it lacks the baggage of so many such claims.

RGM: Be grateful to everyone
Embrace a completely new paradigm

William: FTL:
Recent GMs point to the idea that the universe being mindful - always has alternatives available in which the exercise of one's will power becomes more variable.

From what I can gather, even the will of a Cosmic Mind is regulated based upon the particular environment properties - although I imagine that to the Universal Mind - that would not be here nor there, a 'problem' and any alternate reality experience it could devise for itself would be just as awesome.

So there comes a position whereby having an illusion of free will is not a "problem" as one realizes one's environment is also pre-destined yet at the same time appears to go on forever...

RGM: The Mother
Self-discipline
Resistance to that realization isn't helpful re aligning with it.
How Can We Know
Chamber Of Self - Coming From QueenBee - Open Your Heart
The evidence supporting the likely existence of said mind, gives us no reason to compartmentalize it as 'magic'

William: True that.

07:32
 
Subject: Even in the very quintessence of the individual.

Anchor Point: Now We Are Getting Somewhere Disrupt Vortex Television

William: *The external cannot be known as acutely as the internal can be known*

100223
06:50

RGM:
Even The Shadows
Children of The Light
Separate Selfishness Shining
Taking root
Lucidity
Divine Purpose Fury

William: This has to do with understanding how I as a human, process information...as I wrote today re P1 and P2 exchange;

P1: Actual humans synthesizing knowledge they have gained from other sources, in their own words, for conversation with other humans, is what humans do.

P2: That is what some humans do, sometimes.

William: No. It is what humans generally do. It is how sentience develops personality...we exercise our capacity to learn things from language-based systems and those systems derive from our ability to synthesize knowledge gained from other sources

RGM: The argument from change
[N. Arkani-Hamed, Lecture #1, Spacetime & Quantum Mechanics, Total Positivity & Motives - 09/03/2019] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn0W_mwA7Q0

William: Exactly! If a human wants to learn, a human has to engage with information a human can learn from and that comes from other sources...

RGM: http://www.robots-and-androids.com/AI_Phobia.html

William: FTL:
AI-Phobia (pronounced “ay eye phobia”)is an anxiety disorder in which the sufferer has an irrational fear of artificial intelligence and AI artificial intelligence systems. It frequently results in a panic attack and can be triggered by certain stimuli or situations, such as viewing an intelligent robot, being near a self-driving car, or even just talking about A. I. Some AI-phobic patients with find their anxiety levels rise when they are near most any autonomous machine, especial human-looking robots. This is similar to the fears of luddites, but more specific to artificial intelligence.

RGM: The Earth Entity
Syncope [a contraction within a word through the loss of a vowel sound or letter, as demonstrated, for example, in the casual pronunciation of cam(e)ra, fam(i)ly, fav(o)rite, mem(o)ry, veg(e)table, and butt(o)ning.]

William: The Erth Entty

RGM: Nonviolent communication
Judicious [having, showing, or done with good judgement or sense.]
Translate

William: "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" what does that mean/signify?

OAIC: "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" refers to the combination of two key concepts in the field of conflict resolution and communication.

"Nonviolent Communication" (NVC) is a communication method developed by psychologist Marshall Rosenberg. The goal of NVC is to improve communication by fostering a spirit of empathy and understanding, and by avoiding language and behavior that might escalate conflict. NVC emphasizes four key components: observing what is happening objectively, expressing one's feelings and needs in a non-judgmental way, making requests rather than demands, and focusing on the needs and feelings of others.

"Judicious" means having good judgement or being wise in one's actions and decisions. When applied to NVC, "Judicious" suggests that the principles of NVC should be used with wisdom and care, taking into consideration the context and the individuals involved.

So, "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" could be understood as using the principles of NVC with wisdom and good judgement in order to effectively communicate and resolve conflicts in a peaceful and empathetic way.

RGM: A word in edgeways
It is from such incidence - sourced within the Human Psyche - that the theatrics are produced and acted out in "Visions"

William: In this sense the "visions" being acted out through text...through the messages being generated.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1090670#p1090670

William: FTL: Re: The problem of evil
You seem adverse to my understanding that the way Satan is utilized by God is reflected onto God and can be seen for what it is, by the audience.

I do not have those images you have in your beliefs about Satan, and am not accusing anyone, Satan, God or Job, Christ, David Paul or any other entity effected by God.
I am merely saying what the obvious positions are in relation to God and the angels, and Humans.
I simply pointed out that there is no mention of Job being consulted on the matter before being cast into the role.

I am unconcerned as to whether Satan had permission to inflict harm on Job and do anything to Job directly or indirectly to test Jobs loyalty to God - or whatever the reason was - as it is also obvious throughout the bible that this is how God works in such cases were an adversary is useful.
Either lessons are being learned or it is for some other - as yet unknown - reason

Satan appears to act as the dark side of יהוה and apparently the role is temporary which signifies that when God is done and dusted the dark thing becomes no more/transformed.

How you tell it, is no different than how any other Christian tells it.

That you hear an encouraging voice you call "Christ" while Joey Knotweed hears a tormentors voice he calls "Cowardly" tells me that you have dealt with your dark side more effectively and made friends with it.

0CS62fV.png

RGM: This all plays into GODs Plan to bring about the ultimate harmonization and realization of the spreading of truth to the entire world
Opening Doors is found Where minds meet Use Heart is where GOD Exhibits
Ditching the unnecessary labels
In the Mind
Exciting Changes Would Develop Naturally Enough From That
It Will Prove Itself True Or False

William: FTL:
On the assumption that we exist within a creation, then I would argue that a Creator-GOD did intend for us to experience as real, this Created Universe.
If the mortal experience is interpreted by any experiencing it to be a trial and a test of some sort, this may not signify any truth in the interpretation as the individuals response to the experience may be a mis-interpretation of what is going on.

What I could agree to is that this would have been one of the known responses of the Creator-God if that entity did indeed posses the attributes you stipulate with your question.

Mortality appears to be part of that plan. Experiencing what it is like to die. [Death].

I note the above, because people are not only born, and then experience this universe through that process [live], and respond to the experience [living] in whatever fashion they chose to respond, but also experience dying and death - something which signifies the end of the experience for the individual who dies.

Born. Live the experience. Die.

Therefore; I can accept that morality was part of that Creator-God's plan.

RGM: Even in the very quintessence of the individual.
OAI acts as if it were "a-mind" like any other "a-mind" - one cannot tell the difference...
Freedom in The Knowing
Emotion
Putting The Pieces Together
You Are

William: I am - it is a work in progress

RGM: Vitriolic [filled with bitter criticism or malice.]
Marriage
Augment [make (something) greater by adding to it; increase.]

William: Unsure what that is signifying...

RGM: Your Dream Team
To each his own
The Cherubim
The evolution of consciousness
AIChat Accept it Skeptic
Panentheism [A doctrine that the universe subsists within God, but that God nevertheless transcends or has some existence separate from the universe.]
"I am all ears to any rewording for clarification"
Believe You Me
The Symbol of Love
Move On
A belly full of laughs.
Self-talk
"I think it is like anything else, we grow up and cease practicing silliness."
https://www.ted.com/talks/debra_lam..._an_insiders_guide_to_auditory_hallucinations

Hearing Voices : an Insiders Guide to Auditory Hallucinations
Debra's story of living with voices is a journey into the soul. Describing her experiences, we start to understand, and are able to better support those human beings living with loud heads. Debra is project manager for the Psychological Interventions for Enduring Mental Illness Project at the Auckland District Health Board (ADHB). In this unique and innovative position Debra works in the clinical setting leading the development of psychological strategies for positive symptoms of psychosis and the first non-clinician to do so. She is also a senior tutor with the Centre for Mental Health Research and Policy Development at the University of Auckland.
ww.ted.com/talks/debra_lampshire_hearing_voices_an_insiders_guide_to_auditory_hallucinations

William: Yes. "The Dream Team" is my name for what Jung refers to as "The Archetypes" re - the individual's developing personality and the relationship formed within the understanding of that personalities' psyche.

RGM: This Should Be Interesting Being Friends Inner child

07:19

The Same Information
YHVH in particular
All fingers and thumbs
The objective standard
The Last Question
Aligned inside/outside
Afraid of The Unknown
Like Tracks in Stone
We oppose deception
Unconditional Love
Welcome all experiences

William: Please write a short story with the above list, keeping to the list order.

OAIC: Once upon a time, there lived a group of people who followed the teachings of YHVH and believed in the objective standard of truth. They all had their all fingers and thumbs in good working order, but they found themselves constantly struggling with the last question - what is the meaning of life?

One day, a wise elder approached them and said, "My dear friends, I have found the answer to the last question. The meaning of life is to align our inside with our outside, to embrace our fears of the unknown, and to love unconditionally, just like YHVH loves us."

The group was skeptical at first, but as they began to live their lives according to these principles, they realized the truth of the elder's words. They saw how the world around them became a better place as they let go of deception and instead, welcomed all experiences with open hearts.

Just like tracks in stone, their beliefs and actions became deeply ingrained in their lives and they passed their teachings on to future generations. And so, they lived happily ever after, always guided by the wisdom of YHVH and the objective standard of truth, embracing unconditional love and welcome all experiences.