Same propellent - different perspectives. 3
201122 [In training for the next level]
06:50 [This Is My Kind Of Fun]
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1066664#p1066664 Nazi Space Agenda
William: FTL; Re: To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
Border
Write a Book
Trick Done and Dusted
Story
Gnosticism
William: From a recent post: Re: Who does the Old Testament belong to?
Here Everything All Real Together
Written Language.
Same propellent - different perspectives.
Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous
Sounds
Confluent [flowing together or merging.]
The systems show that there is no such thing as true randomness, therefore - even that things appear to have originated in chaos and chance, the existence of all things cannot have derived from a mindless origin.
Just Another Christian
Put My Finger On
Heal
The Limitations
Like a Well Oiled Machine
Talk
What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
Don’t fall asleep
Differences
Graphic Changes
You're blocking the light
Lyricus
William: Re WingMakers Mythology.
GM: Superior Credibility
A lot of information which has the potential to come to the fore.
Create Your Own Spirit Ship [Such reduces the opportunity of conflict re interrelation opinions.]
Same propellent - different perspectives.
*
Innermost
"The Doom of Spacetime" [Why It Must Dissolve Into More Fundamental Structures]
William: LINK
Slowly and Surely
Examine
Map Carvers
Innocent
Guilt Trip
William: The examination of the guilt trip which acts as a preventative barrier to the goal of The Lyricus Teaching Order is currently in the initial stages of being investigated through the interaction between Tanager and I.
GM: Astral Explorer
Moldavite
Control
A knight in shining armour Manipulation
Variety of Expression
"Consciousness" = “Zero”, mathematically speaking.
William: FTL; re The Eternal Authority
GM: Burgeoning [beginning to grow or increase rapidly; flourishing.]
The Cave Maps
The Human Brain
William: Re: Does the body need consciousness?
"Zero" must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and "Consciousness" fits that description.
Got The Picture
A Sturdy Place
The English Language
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
♬We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♬
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...Such is a handy device for side-stepping - nothing more.
William: Side-stepping the bog of cart-before-horse argument...Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional? posted yesterday...
GM: https://wizardforums.com/threads/william-message-generation.647/post-6823
William: I do appreciate being reminded of such feedback - especially when Tanager so frivolously handwaves the process of the GMs and considers them to be a sub-standard means which YHVH wouldn't use in relation to the individual personality...
FTL; re Journals, Thanksgiving & Success Stories
Journal William Message Generation
William: The responses OF the Christian [Tanager] and the non-Christian are worlds apart...
GM: Engaging with insects
William: And non-human animated life forms in general - very interesting seeing the Mark of YHVH present in nature...
GM: ♬A Space Without A Time...♬
William: re GHOST IN THE MACHINE
2002
07:30 [The soul eats experience]
201122 [In training for the next level]
06:50 [This Is My Kind Of Fun]
GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1066664#p1066664 Nazi Space Agenda
William: FTL; Re: To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
GM: Synesthesia [the production of a sense impression relating to one sense or part of the body by stimulation of another sense or part of the body.][Replying to Bust Nak in post #162]
I am saying this universe contains evil regardless of whether it is the product of a creative mind or not. The existence evil, is a problem (because it is unexpected) for the thesis that it is the product of a creative mind; but not a problem for the thesis that it is a mindless happenstance (as there is no expectation with re: evil one way or the other.)
Okay - thanks for clarifying.
Given that it has been proven that true random does not exist, mindless happenstance is off the table as an 'explanation' for this existence.
Therefore, IF this universe contains evil and is also the creation of a creative mind, why is it an 'unexpected problem'? What do you mean by that? Why should it matter one way but not the other?
As for fizzer, I've already pointed out that it's good while it last; as for sacrificing a perfectly functional planet/space ship, no, I am speaking of abandoning it because it is foundering, that's not a sacrifice.
Assuming you are truthfully interpreting what is happening re the planet, does this not get back to the argument that the process of this foundering could be turned around by the very minds and money currently invested in escaping that outcome - an outcome which said minds share the greater part of being responsible for making happen in the first place.
Indeed, the philosophy has more than hints of Nazism in it, which is something we shouldn't be too surprised about, given the fact that the space program might not have got its legs if it were not for the Nazi scientists employed by the superpowers at the end of the last WW.
Meh, not gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. Rocket science is useful whether it came from Nazi scientists or not.
Perhaps mainly useful to the agender of those willing to save themselves at the cost of an entire species they use and then abandon, to attempt this self-serving salvation.
Any specie occupied in trying to escape the bounds of their planet even at the sacrifice of the life of said planet is not only twisted in its thinking, but doomed to fail big-time.
Such a giant goose-step for "mankind" cannot end well...Why are you even labelling the boiling of Earth by the sun in the far future as a "sacrifice" in the first place? It's rather odd to apply such a label to a natural occurrence.
Meh...this idea that what is going on re this space program agenda as "preparation" for a natural event which is way in the distant future doesn't ring true.
It is an attempt at abandonment of the hard problems of humanity, through investment in poorly thought out strategies of selfish intent.
There is no baby in such bathwater.
eta;
Generating Messages - Page 6 - Debating Christianity and Religion
debatingchristianity.com
WingMakers Philo II
Border
Write a Book
Trick Done and Dusted
Story
Gnosticism
William: From a recent post: Re: Who does the Old Testament belong to?
GM: Giving Energy Increases Ones Synchronistic Experiences[Replying to Diagoras in post #15]
I’ve not read much about it, but haven’t seen this interpretation of YHVH being a ‘fake god’ before. I’d be interested in any cite for this.
Search: "demiurge"
(in Platonic philosophy) the Maker or Creator of the world.
(in Gnosticism and other theological systems) a heavenly being, subordinate to the Supreme Being, that is considered to be the controller of the material world and antagonistic to all that is purely spiritual.
Search "Do Gnostics believe in YHWH?"
Gnostic cosmogony generally presents a distinction between a supreme, hidden God and a malevolent lesser divinity (sometimes associated with the Yahweh of the Old Testament) who is responsible for creating the material universe.{SOURCE}
Early Christianity (from what I have read) was a bit of a muddle, so I’m not sure that there was a concerted effort by Jews to ‘infiltrate’ any movement.
One can connect the dots - the temple was destroyed by the Romans and the loot taken to Rome and displayed with great fanfare - The Jews were sent packing from the homeland [not returning until 1900's] - it is not outside the realm of possibility that Rome devised Christianity as another device to rub the noses of the Jews in re cultural appropriation and the Jewish diaspora and makes the most sense re the rise of Christianity...
Seems to me that Christianity would gain more from ditching the OT than retaining it. It would resolve a lot of contradictions.
Since when have contradictions interfered with the Christian agenda?
Besides which, the theory that learned Jews infiltrated Christianity to preserve the Jewish idea of YHVH within the very halls of their enemy, is what would have caused the Christians retaining of the OT, because they could not easily fool the masses with the cultural appropriation without some type of OT inclusion and it also explains the popularity of Saul-as-Paul - who's influence as both a Jew and a Roman would make sure that any dumping of YHVH through interpreting Jesus as being against that Jewish idea of GOD, would not get a foothold and remain as it has, the heretical Gnostic ramblings of fools against Rome and Israel and systems of disparity in general.
But, whatever it is, and however it came about - it is as it is...
Here Everything All Real Together
Written Language.
Same propellent - different perspectives.
Rolling down the rails of the ridiculous
Sounds
Confluent [flowing together or merging.]
The systems show that there is no such thing as true randomness, therefore - even that things appear to have originated in chaos and chance, the existence of all things cannot have derived from a mindless origin.
Just Another Christian
Put My Finger On
Heal
The Limitations
Like a Well Oiled Machine
Talk
What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
Don’t fall asleep
Differences
Graphic Changes
You're blocking the light
Lyricus
William: Re WingMakers Mythology.
The Lyricus Teaching Order originates in the Central Race of the 7th Superuniverse. Within the Central Race is a sub-race known symbolically as the WingMakers. Within the WingMakers there is a specific order of beings that are collectively known as Lyricus, and it is this group that is responsible for assembling and exporting the knowledge base necessary for a developing species to scientifically prove the existence of soul and establish the science of multidimensional reality as the nucleus knowledge system of the species.
This outcome of evolution is universal and, in the broadest measure, identical for all species that are based on the biogenetic template of the Central Race, known as the 7th Archetype Soul Carrier of the Individuated Consciousness of First Source. It is Lyricus that is responsible for shepherding a developing species to the technological and scientific prowess whereby the soul and the soul carrier are distinguished and acknowledged by the species at large.[More info]
Lyricus.org, as a website, was launched in 2004. Lyricus is a vibrant part of the WingMakers mythological narrative, owing to its teachings. The Lyricus Teaching Order (LTO) is a subgroup of WingMakers that curates and distributes its philosophy and activations to developing species once that species has evolved a sufficiently sophisticated language system.
As mentioned in other sections of this website, WingMakers are a time-shifted race of human beings. They are, quite literally, us, in a future time. From this future perspective, they export their teachings to an alpha species who has the ability to comprehend the fundamental concepts and behavioral values, however, the broader purpose is to “unleash” the species from the illusions of the separation frequency, and this is done by the irrefutable, scientific discovery of the human soul (The Grand Portal).
The LTO does not teach a religion, but rather a broad set of perspectives that could be best summed up as supporting and elevating an individual’s sovereign rights and their integral nature to all other life forms. They do not set rules or dogma, nor do they establish an organization that crystallizes or protects their teachings.
The primary collection of teachings of the LTO is contained in what is known as Liminal Cosmogony. Only a few extracts have been shared from this volume at this time. They are important themes and structures that pertain to the macro-structure of the multiverse.
GM: Superior Credibility
A lot of information which has the potential to come to the fore.
Create Your Own Spirit Ship [Such reduces the opportunity of conflict re interrelation opinions.]
Same propellent - different perspectives.
*
Innermost
"The Doom of Spacetime" [Why It Must Dissolve Into More Fundamental Structures]
William: LINK
GM: One DayA guest asked what rules the speaker relied on to present proposed new principles. Arkani-Hamed responded that there are no rules, yet, but that we have enough data to know that certain results are certain. We can thus use that data to test the viability of new language and new theories.
Slowly and Surely
Examine
Map Carvers
Innocent
Guilt Trip
William: The examination of the guilt trip which acts as a preventative barrier to the goal of The Lyricus Teaching Order is currently in the initial stages of being investigated through the interaction between Tanager and I.
Following the storyline, the reason I do not think that Adam understood why it was important to listen to YHVH's messages, is that the design of Adam's body-set prohibited any access to Adam having a conscious recollection of a prior existence.
Essentially, because Adam had a beginning, this meant that initially Adam had nothing to go by in which to distinguish right from wrong [good from evil] and thus would not have understood, because the knowledge simply wasn't there for him to have any understanding about.
The storyline ["truth through a fictional medium." as you put it] shows the reader that the personality of the character called "Adam", started out his experience in a state of Tabula Rasa.
From your own argument so far, we disagree.
In the story you may be able to point to a passage which identifies that Adam did possess the knowledge from the beginning, and if so, we can examine that idea more fully.
I acknowledge that you have already said that the story of the garden has to be taken in context with the whole story. I take it you mean the whole of the Bible?
However, without something tangible from the Garden Story being able to be identified as key evidence that Adam did indeed understand from the beginning why it was important to listen to YHVH's messages, I would have to take the overall storyline of the Bible as something akin to misinformation based upon misunderstanding.
GM: Astral Explorer
Moldavite
Control
A knight in shining armour Manipulation
Variety of Expression
"Consciousness" = “Zero”, mathematically speaking.
The Eternal Authority
Originally Posted by Sivason I guess I do not understand what your question was. You ask if there could be a system to prove a creator type entity or
www.dreamviews.com
William: FTL; re The Eternal Authority
VVilliam;2245862 said:Yes thel - we do hold onto beliefs as the precious things that they appear to be...
And it is true that some messages will challenge individual beliefs - if my own experience is anything to go by.
And in relation to the idea of a "message" this can be any experience we conscious individuals have.
Lucid dreams are messages.
OOBEs are messages.
A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am "thinking life is beautiful", is a message.
From my experience, the systems I use re generating messages have sometimes challenged my beliefs, and I know how hard that can be, and have even sulked on occasion and refused to commune for weeks afterward, until I calm down, through thinking about things and coming to better conclusion - being honest about my beliefs and letting go of those ones which are resistant to change or suppress my ability to move forward...
My observations based upon my experience of life as a human being - to date - re the subject of what happens when we die is largely based upon the study of the stories that folk who claim to have had NDEs and such type experiences bring to the table.
What I have noticed therein equates to a picture which informs me that the most likely thing which happens in what I refer to as The Next Level - is that we immediately start experiencing a reality which appears to be set up that way and we enter it, but what is actually occurring is that it is something we create for ourselves as the nature of The Next Phase is such that IT responds to each individual personalities belief systems, as well as their overall attitude, and even their deepest hidden things - things they know they have hidden, and things which are so deep, even they are unaware of said things.
This interaction - the nature of The Next Phase environment, and the overall consciousness of the individual [including those subconscious and unconscious realms] come into play, and - largely unknown to those experiencing this almost instantly manifesting reality the enter into - that it is they who are creating the very thing which they are experiencing.
In some ways, that is exactly what Lucid Dreaming helps an individual practice at - creating and maintaining their own realities to suit their beliefs - in preparation for 'The Main Event".
The Math I speak of is not how the messages are generated, but another system incorporating language [sound-based] by using the symbols which represent the sound of language, with symbols which represent numbers and thus, the simple code {A=6...Z=26} allows for one to create a growing data-base and cross-examine the results.
So I have two lists. One I call a "ComList", where I place words/word-strings as line entries:
Presently my ComList has 2657 line entries on 55 pages. [I use MSWord and the Time New Roman font @ size 12]
The other list [same font settings] I refer to as Name2Number and is currently 81 pages.
When generating a message, I usually have both documents open...
I will proceed now with example of how GMs are constructed...as the first post of a thread I will create for the purpose of examining said processes...and link this post to that one.
[Link to that Thread]
Cheers
W
GM: Burgeoning [beginning to grow or increase rapidly; flourishing.]
The Cave Maps
The Human Brain
Does the body need consciousness? - Page 4 - Debating Christianity and Religion
debatingchristianity.com
William: Re: Does the body need consciousness?
GM: Same propellent - different perspectives.AgnosticBoy post_id=1077445 time=1652385820 user_id=13726 said:The way I look at it is that if consciousness equals brain or is a product of it, then scientists should be able to discover subjective experience or deduce its existence simply by studying the brain. To date, that seems inconceivable that that would happen. I brought this up to DrNoGods before, as i'm sure many others have in different ways, yet he continues to claim that consciousness poses no special challenge to science or materialism.
The facts are that the ONLY way scientists know of subjective experience (or consciousness) is because we all experience it and can report it. Scientists did not discover its existence empirically nor did they deduce its existence. Our knowledge of neural correlates would not exist unless the subject was able to tell us what they're experiencing while observing their corresponding brain activity. SO even our neural correlates of consciousness are simply neural correlates of our subjective reports of our experience.
If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That's doesn't exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that's less than physical.
"Zero" must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and "Consciousness" fits that description.
Got The Picture
A Sturdy Place
The English Language
Communication Techniques To Be Continued
♬We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♬
A means of taking an Agnostic position on things which have yet to be proven one way or another...Such is a handy device for side-stepping - nothing more.
William: Side-stepping the bog of cart-before-horse argument...Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional? posted yesterday...
[Replying to Difflugia in post #248]
You or I can make up any number of things that aren't logical impossibilities and can't be disproven despite having no objective reason to believe in them. To be consistent, I must be exactly as open to their existence as I am to that of any god, which lies somewhere between "agnostic" and "atheist" depending on one's definition. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is a pointed illustration of that principle.
The FSM as well as the other things you mentioned, are known imagery. The ghost dressed, as it were.
How does any actual invisible entity fit in with these ones which have been made conceptionally visible?
I have not found/been shown a way to fit these things together, so have to remain agnostically positioned for the time being, re the subject.
I believe the opposite is true.
Leprechaun: O'Reilly?
Theology as a subject presupposes the existence of the gods and is the exercise of imagining how the gods must interact with the world.
That is an expression I know to be misinformation. Not to say that I do not understand the process which provide folk with a means of jumping to such a conclusion, but the evidence clearly shows the presumption is incorrect.
The equivalent of theology isn't whether or not I believe that cars need gremlin magic, but imagining how such gremlin magic would work once one decides that they, in fact, do.
You are speaking about a subset of overall theology, [specifically, religion] not of theology itself.
It's like watching Star Trek. Few people seriously believe that the transporter and dilithium crystals are real.
Or that the Star Trek universe actually exists...
Many people willingly suspend disbelief, though, and engage in the theology of how such things would work in-universe.
Adequately explaining religion. Shall we agree that religion is just a a subset of Theology and not conflate the two?
The willing to believers are the easier to discredit re beliefs, since beliefs [all beliefs not just theistic based ones] are always easier to show where misinformation derives.
Typically, such misinformed expression regularly comes from atheistic thinkers...Whatever helps you sleep.
Moving the goalposts won't help your failing argument, Difflugia.
Rather, think about expressing differently and keeping to the subject at hand.
[Not that I am saying that recognition of misinformation doesn't contribute to my ability to drop into sleep without difficulty...but that it is besides the point.]
Misdirection detected...I am referring to atheistic thinking, not quantum mathematics.
I wasn't referring to quantum mechanics, but to the principles of statistical analysis.
All you said was;
QM fits that scriptdoing math with and visualizing very big and very small numbers.
It gets back to whether "you can't prove it's not" is a valid argument.
From an agnostic position, yes, it is a valid argument.
If one's only evidence for a concept is "you can't prove it's not," then that concept is competing with every other idea within the same space.
Have you not hear the news!? Spacetime is doomed!
The concept I focus on is the one which say's we may be existing within a creation/created thing.
Spacetime - being shown by quantum mathematicians, to being NOT fundamental to what we have been referring to as "Reality" - shows us that our answers are not to be found simply in the observing of our current situation re Spacetime.
This does not mean that we have to claim that the FSM or any other conceptual image dreamed up is the fundamental reason for why we exist within Spacetime, but that Spacetime is not the reason for its own existence.
"It's possible" is tiny. "All possible things" is vast.
Agnostically speaking, we therefore have some sorting out to do to - perhaps - find answers in the middle.
What we best not do is form beliefs, either for or against...
Absent any other evidence, the probability of gods is the first divided by the second. To accurately evaluate such concepts requires an understanding of things like asymptotes and comparing orders of infinity.
Can these disciplines show us that QM is mistaken, and that Spacetime is fundamental to itself?
If not, then they are not much use to us re the question "Do we exist within a created thing?"
Agreed?
GM: https://wizardforums.com/threads/william-message-generation.647/post-6823
William: I do appreciate being reminded of such feedback - especially when Tanager so frivolously handwaves the process of the GMs and considers them to be a sub-standard means which YHVH wouldn't use in relation to the individual personality...
Tanager: YHVH wouldn’t use the GMs because their vagueness would lead to the person forming the message in their own image. {SOURCE}
FTL; re Journals, Thanksgiving & Success Stories
Journal William Message Generation
Then i put my intent on and our friend will.i.am starts using his randomizer and the texts starts flowing and making sense in the form of subconscious hints that make me smile. Since i needed a little smile in my life, im really glad william didnt listen to me growling at something new and just fed me..
William: The responses OF the Christian [Tanager] and the non-Christian are worlds apart...
GM: Engaging with insects
William: And non-human animated life forms in general - very interesting seeing the Mark of YHVH present in nature...
GM: ♬A Space Without A Time...♬
William: re GHOST IN THE MACHINE
2002
<3You’ve been a rock - For so long now I can’t even count the years that you’ve been rolling Nothing can shock or bring you down There ain’t nothing you haven’t seen - Nothing you haven’t known
You can teach me when I’m Needing You can reach for me when I’m bleeding Touch me where I need it most - you are the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a thought worth thinking You’re the water and the wine - you’re the cup from which I’m drinking You’re a surprise worth hoping for You are a captured moment - you’re a space without a time
You can look me in the mirror - catch my eye and make me shiver Touch me where it hurts the most - right into the Ghost - in the Machine
You are a dream gone real You’ve got exactly what it takes to make an old wound heal You tied the knot - then you let it slip Now we both know what it feels like to find a place to fit
We can chart another trail - Raise the anchor fill the sails Lift our glasses in a toast - We are the Ghost - In the Machine
We’ve been an island of our own - we’ve been a cosmic rolling stone Now’s the time to spread our wings - and fly!