Message Generation

[William]

090522

Expression of Astonishment

SCLx13

RSP= 2xSCL + pg dn + ↕ + P&P + re

AP= Tetrad [a group or set of four.] I am not here to judge but to help

9:31

GM: Ask and It Will Be Given
Be transparent
The Deeper Reality
At least the Earth is real enough – never to mind the rest of the universe…
The Power Of...
Phasing
Asking Politely
Presumed outcome
Tzevaot [armies or hosts of men]
At least the Earth is real enough – never to mind the rest of the universe…

William: "Real Enough" as in, enough therein to have something within ones grasp of influence.
My initial thought wasn't so much one of awe and astonishment, but rather one of "hey more stars, ho hum."
Not that I do not include the necessary awe regarding human ability to create the modern devices used for the purposes of science, but rather - balancing that awe and respect with the notion that there is plenty to do hereabouts which would act as a protection against all that good work going to waste because the human species was unable to apply the science learned, in a manner which would ultimate help heal the planet in such a way as to the integrity of the whole...
On the other hand, scientists may be employed by their sponsor-investors, to also work on the problem of human interactions in ways which minimize or even completely eradicate all threat to those projects...
My 'problem' has been that I tended to think other humans are much the same as myself - have the same primary feelings and outlook on the subject of recreating the social infrastructures to better reflect the needs of the whole planet Herself re the critters She births...
This doesn't appear - in any obvious way - to show itself as being the case.
Much of the investment has been channeled to the creations of the infrastructures of scientific device - and humanity is paying for that, rather than for what can make all of our lives so much more bearable and functioning for the good of all.
I would suppose that this problem is as ancient as human beings, and is why stories have developed and become part of the human folk-lore as it gives the disadvantaged some kind of hope to their otherwise hopeless position...

GM: Dualic Energies
For anyone to say otherwise, would be unwise in the face of such evidence
Look Closely
Dualic Energies
I Am Hearing You
Free your soul
Side Splittingly Funny
Beyond a shadow of a doubt
Love Takes One For The Team
Consider This
Conspicuous

[Donald Hoffman Proves That We Live in a Simulation]
Leave room for nature

William: Yes - there is a tremendously funny side to all this, I agree. Yet I have to acknowledge the sadness I feel when I think about how science could be used to create a sturdy platform in which we then can launch off of from...and yes - given the 'rock and hard place' re the human drama, there looks - on the surface - to have been no other way in which to do what has and is being done.
What science [re materialism] does, is give cause for humans to celebrate the intelligence of consciousness while at the same time ignoring the hard problem of consciousness that this type of science has created for its supporters.

GM: Mothers Milk
The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD
Emotion
Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God"
Stoke That Fire
In The Team of the Collective

How can we trust the Bible if it's not inerrant? - Page 95 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

"Let there be light"
Memorised vows enchanted by tune before the great minstrel the fair maidens swoon we came to our senses as we left the cocoon

William: From the link; [re the existence of this universe]

JoeyKnothead: The "initial state" seems to be out of the reach of being described in any accurate or meaningful manner.

William: In that, it is no more or less better than the idea of an exclamation "let there be light" from an Intelligent Source being the Initial State.

JoeyKnothead: Plenty fair. Though one's gotta ponder what did it that thinking.

William: That is a journey in itself and provides me with lifetime of interesting subjective experience re my own way of interreacting with and finding out about such a thinker...

William: You mention what "Stokes That Fire" - it boils down to the so-called "Problem of Evil" which this morning I was thinking is like unto the '"Problem of Unicorns".
Yes. "Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God" " is a "problem" due largely to the historical content of human interaction with this idea of "GOD" which has a poor record among the general populace, and can be attributed with some horrific milestones along the road-side of human history.
It is understandable that folk want to avoid that path in particular, given its track record.

However, full avoidance is impractical, unwise and unsustainable...and cannot really be avoided as long as consciousness exists in the human form and does what it does in whatever 'name' it is doing it.
"GOD" in essence is like unto a mirror-image of the formless ghost we call "Consciousness" and acts out as it sees fit, through biological instruments ... and it cannot be completely exorcised from the mathematical equations, even if it is only represented as "Zero". The rest of the Math cannot be done without that 'non-number'.
"Zero" does not actually represent "nothing" because "nothing" does not exist and so cannot be represented.
Therefore, "Zero" must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and "Consciousness" fits that description.
"Consciousness" = "Zero", mathematically speaking.


GM: Acceptance
Placebo Effect
Fun...Work...But Fun Nonetheless
Intelligence with Wisdom
Nurturing
"Being 'born of the spirit' is really about coming to the realization of what one truly is rather than remaining in ignorance of that."
And Loving That Knowing
The Cherubim
A lack of boundaries
The Ruru flies close over your head
Near

William: The Cherubim [theistic mythology] are angels designed to help "GOD" [rather than say - the Seraphim who are designed to praise GOD.]
Translating that to the human perspective, thoughts which go together to help the individual consciousness, and thus the collective [local] Consciousness of humanity and the Planetary system of Earth [Mother] through practical application - are the "Cherubim" and thought centered upon praise [for human accomplishment et al] are the "Seraphim" and both are vital to the overall processes re practical application.
The "lack of boundaries" re the Cherubim [in terms of the human condition/situation] this is the environment itself - even that we cannot touch the stars with our hands, we can, with the eyes of our understanding...and it appears to go of 'forever'...plenty to discover therein.

The "Ruru" of course - is significant to my own data of [subjective] experience and what it taught me - so the connect therein - with the rest - is in the synchronicity [mindfulness] of unfolding reality and my own subjective - based understanding of that.

GM: That is Correct
10:44

 

[William]

"You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is." ~ Joey Knothead {SOURCE}
__________________________________________________________

100522

SCLx5

RSP= 2xSCL + pg dn + ↕ + P&P + re

AP= Dysfunction The Serpent

GM: "I’ve travelled on these southern roads They’ve taken me to many answers to my questions"
Wonder
Charge
Stepping out of the construct
"Nontheists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance."
Team
Love & Respect
A lack of boundaries
Dream interpretation
There Is More to the Silence Than Meets the Ear

William: Yes. There is simply no argument against the idea of a mindful creative conscious element involved in the background. At best, the agnostic position is the more honest one to adopt if one 'does not know.'
Otherwise, 'not believing/lacking belief' is simply a reaction against religious belief systems which present ideas about a mindful creative conscious element involved in the background.
As such, the reaction can be faulted as surely as the beliefs in the ideas can be faulted.

GM: Apotheosis [the highest point in the development of something; a culmination or climax. the elevation of someone to divine status.]
In Denial
Do Not Panic
Modern truth in ancient wisdom
On To It
Suicide {SOURCE}

For A Particular Reason
Keep an Eye On

William: Yes - the particular image invokes the idea of a secretive, shadowy figure - perhaps with sinister motives...but again, imagery in itself can be - even intentionally - deceiving.

GM: People hide their sins from each other.
Acceptance
Mother Earth
The dominant model of Source Intelligence is primal.

William: The idea of 'confessing one's sins' to each other seems helpful but is it really? I suppose that in relation to being suicidal, and if 'sin' was 'keeping the truth of ones state of mind a secret from others', then it is helpful to let others know...but one ought be careful whom one lets know.
That is the problem with the idea - ones 'sins' can be used by others for malevolent purposes.

Ideally, one needs to find the place where such thoughts do not encumber one's ability to function as well as one can expect to function in a largely dysfunctional mind-environment...and that internal environment spills out into the external world...it is a major balancing act to find the place of serenity - the ride is wild...

GM: It appears to come from a desperate place - like with the clutching of straws.
Fury
Now We Are Getting Somewhere
Without and Within
Smarter Than The Average
"Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom"
Evidence We Actively Collect

William: And how we interpret the evidence we actively collect. Life on this planet, as a human being, is difficult.

GM: Worthy of the individuals time and effort...

William: On all fronts...

GM: Language itself is not the problem. but how we are taught to use language as a major means in which to self-identify incorrectly...thus we flitter and bounce or alternatively cling to the walls of our unwillingness to understand ourselves as we truly are... hiding from that knowledge behind facades of personality we clothe our awareness with...
A lack of boundaries
“True belonging doesn't require you to change who you are; it requires you to be who you are."

William: "A lack of boundaries". What does that mean? Having an open mind? In general terms it refers to someone who has no moral compass, or a lack of ability to understand their situation and 'act accordingly'...reckless even...it can be positive or negative depending upon the activity one is involved with... sometimes it is preferable to step outside of socially imposed norms in order to progress...discontinue with the practice of hiding from that knowledge behind facades of personality we clothe our awareness with...

5:46

 

[William]

DrNoGods: I'd argue that the bodily purpose of consciousness is to create all of these things so that we can function at the level humans do.

William: Why? We witness the activity of consciousness through the human instrument - no argument necessary.
But why see it as purpose? This implies that something conscious emerged from a material thing, but the material thing had reason for creating such device.

DrNoGods: My dog is conscious and able to utilize its 5 senses and act like a dog, but he can't do calculus or compose a symphony and never will because his brain capacity does not allow it. He's conscious, but lacks the intelligence level of a human.

William: So you believe that the necessity of consciousness is to create intelligence?
{SOURCE}____________________________________________________________________

110522

Something In The Way OF It All

SCLx11
Teach - Smart Phone - Is it not the quality of the message that counts, rather than the name of the entity the message comes from? - A measured step - Crystal - Acid test - We Are Us - Fire - The Original People - Get out of the way - At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?

RSP = 2xSCL + AP + re + post LE

8:01

AP = Truth Without Proof Is Belief

GM: Standstill Contemplate
Conundrum
At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?
Truth Without Proof Is Belief
The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so.
Story-Tellers
Parchment
Self-compassion
Bury
Cleaning Up The Mess
Life on this planet, as a human being, is difficult.
What once acted like a Wall, became a Gateway
The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind.

Politics
The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so.
Memorandum of Understanding
"Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?"

William: Indeed. Effectively hiding from understanding our self in the process - for example - belittling conscious experience on the grounds that it is subjective in nature and therefore useless to science...thus useless overall.
Importantly one must be honest with ones self regarding subjective experience, rather than delegating images upon the overarching consciousness apparent in ones experience with the objective reality...as religion has done, to the detriment of truthfulness...

GM: Ikigai [your 'reason for being'. ]
This Speaks of....
Happiness
The Enigma Code
Degrees
Indestructible
"Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?"
Pertinent
Transactional
Your shell today…
Angelic Agenda
Christianity is intolerant of such an idea, which is why the dark side of YVHV became a separate entity.
Ingenuity
Overmorrow
Keep An Eye Out for Ones Neighbours

Earth Mother
Voice/Message/Communication
Random coincidence? I think not.
Stuck
Pertinent
"Why - in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven - is the age of this universe a necessary matter of contention?"
Good Intentions
Soul Retrieval
Builder
"No time left for a sentimental tune , wherever I've gone I have not left the room , I am never too late I am never too soon"
The Main Points on the Agenda
Sweet

Feel Be Still.
Innocent
"Why - in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven - is the age of this universe a necessary matter of contention?"
A cultural touchstone
I will leave that there

8:26

 

[William]

DrNoGods: Had reason? I'm not sure what that means in this context. Brains evolved in response to the need for more centralized control of ever more complex bodies that required higher integration functions. If consciousness is an emergent property of a brain (as I believe) then it naturally arose when brains were able to process multiple sensory inputs and use those to make decisions (eg. fight or flight). But it wasn't any kind of intentional action by the material thing ... it evolved without any such input.

William: According to your belief - it wasn't any kind of intentional action by the material thing - at least, not initially.

[The intention came later - as consciousness took control. for we know that consciousness can and does operate with intent. ]

A convenient belief, but one in which accepts the clock-face as the evidence of reality, rather than the mechanisms behind the clock-face.

However, spacetime is not fundamental, so the brain is responding only to what it believes to be reality, rather than to reality itself.

On the other hand Consciousness is able to - at the very least - figure out mathematically, that the mechanisms, [of which the brain is one such mechanism] are part of the clock-face and do not represent any actual fundamental reality.

DrNoGods: The level of consciousness of Homo sapiens 200-300K years ago was presumably the same as ours today, but their intelligence level was orders of magnitude below because they did not have access to many millennia of accumulating knowledge to take advantage of as we do today.

William: And yet, the intelligence has thus far been unwilling to accept from that vast array of accumulating knowledge, that the reality being experienced is not fundamental, thus beliefs about consciousness [such as you own], remain locked in and apparently immovable.

The hard problem of consciousness remains, but the materialistic beliefs act as if the problem has been solved already.
{SOURCE}
________________

120522
Intelligence Without Wisdom

SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle
The One GOD With Many Names - The Completion Process - A riddle wrapped up in an enigma - A New Perspective - Questions - Emotional validation - Stay - The Earths Moon

RSP = 2xSCL + re + P&P + last LE

AP = Free Will Transform

6:16

GM: The Earths Moon
Free Will
Story-Tellers
"Is consciousness an emergent property of the brain?"

Active
Underdetermination [the idea that evidence available to us at a given time may be insufficient to determine what beliefs we should hold in response to it.]
Guilty
Controlled by fear
Transform
“We're a nation of exhausted and over-stressed adults raising over-scheduled children.”
Main
The Power Of...
Fireside Metaphor
Indeed
Making The Best of a Bad Situation
When The Opportunity Presents Itself To Do So...

Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
"Is consciousness an emergent property of the brain?"
Open Minded

A machine for solving problems
Liminal [relating to a transitional or initial stage of a process. occupying a position at, or on both sides of, a boundary or threshold.]
Self-Awareness

When The Opportunity Presents Itself To Do So...
Separating any idea of GOD from All other Consciousness
Path

Not
Mystical
Positive Social Connections
Open Minded
Let Go

The Stress of Unbelief
Time To See
I Digress...
Path
Soul
All The Same

The Connection Process
Belief Helps Cause Separation
With The Assistance Of That Deep One
Let Go
Look For The Significance

Mixture
EZPZ
Dualism merely expresses two sides of the same coin
All The Same
Sadness
Reality Simulation
Although there are opposite sides to spectra, all elements combined form a whole

On The Off-Chance
Educational
The Way We Feel Unification
Look For The Significance
Look from a different angle

6:37

 

[William]

130522

What can I say, except "Thank You"

SCLx6 + select last LE per shuffle

Trust the Process - Parity - Machiavellian - The power of vulnerability - Practical application - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1073548#p1073548


RSP = 2xSCL + re + P&P + last LE

AP = Good on you mate Hearing And Listening

William: From the link;

Difflugia: That would apply to anything non-static, hence the OP question. If God is static, then there's nothing to distinguish God's state at the beginning of the universe from any other point in time. If God is not static, God suffers from the same problem that you claim for the universe.

William:I think that if we went fishing we might find that there are varied interpretations as to what is meant by "God is the always the same".

Immutability = not capable of or susceptible to change.

That would rule out omnipotence - unless being omniscient means that a creator-God could give Itself the illusion of not being that Immutable Entity by constructing some type of reality experience in which It could hide from the true unchangeable nature of Itself...

A universe such as this one, could conceivably provide that.

GM: Good on you mate
Moldavite
Life in Heaven- Guiding Us On Earth

Noticing Synchronicity
I Spy With My Eye
Engaging with insects
Gardeners
Modern truth in ancient wisdom
God’s Love
Hearing And Listening
Like stubbing ones minimus
Personal boundaries
Sovereign Integral Network

Invite The Bee To Land
The Home Of The...
Archangel Metatron
Astral Explorer
First Source:
Connection
Lift Our Gaze
Life in Heaven- Guiding Us On Earth
Dive deep
Open Your Heart
The Way We Feel Unification

Encouraging
Move On
Put That On The List
Apophenia [the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things. ..]
Do A=1
This Is Part Of The Job

William: This Is Part Of The Job = 220
Intimate On All Levels = 220
Beyond a shadow of a doubt = 220

GM: What's The Problem?

What is ' consciousness ' ? - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: From the link;

DrNoGods: Kill one of these individuals (or destroy the brain's ability to function normally), and their consciousness appears to vanish simultaneously. This strong correlation is important.

AgnosticBoy: "Consciousness vanishes"? Couldn't this be our ability to detect consciousness vanishes? If it's a detection problem, then we have no way of knowing if consciousness continues to exist or not.

William: I was just searching "is zero a number?"

"0 (zero) is a number, and the numerical digit used to represent that number in numerals. It fulfills a central role in mathematics as the additive identity of the integers, real numbers, and many other algebraic structures. As a digit, 0 is used as a placeholder in place value systems."

I now search "is zero a real number"
"Real numbers are, in fact, pretty much any number that you can think of. This can include whole numbers or integers, fractions, rational numbers and irrational numbers. Real numbers can be positive or negative, and include the number zero."

I would suppose re "Couldn't this be our ability to detect consciousness vanishes? " in that there is zero ability to detect something which was once detectable and now is not.

Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include zero as representing something real, which is not?

Zero makes the mathematics work...but if zero [representing nothing] is a fraudulent necessity, then perhaps the interpretation of mathematics is incorrect, and perhaps the reason mathematic works [is correct] is because the zero isn't really representing nothing, so much as it represents something which is not detectable but still exists as something.

GM: Sovereign Integral Network
Love
Ghost In The Machine
Eternal Loop
Deciding On The Best Course Of Action

Scape
Turning Point
The Way We Feel Unification
Opposing forces which define each other by necessity

8:11

 

[William]

Just noticed this in YouTube. Haven't watched it yet but thought it might be of some interest.

Asking a Theoretical Physicist About the Physics of Consciousness | Roger Penrose & Jordan Peterson

[media]

160522
What The Creator thinks – becomes

SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle

The Human Instrument - The Chestahedron - To Add to That - Automated Machine Learning - A Bit of Cat and Mouse - Gateway - It is obviously in line with providence... - The Sign On The Door Clearly States The Rules - Worry/Anxious - It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same. - Fierce

RSP = 2xSCL + re + P&P + last LE

AP = We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine - Conscience

8:20

GM: Around The Campfire
Sunlight
A Machine For Solving Problems
Crying Over Spilt Milk

Generating Messages - Page 20 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: From the link;

Vibration
Purpose - Vibration - Objectives - "We can chart another trail - Raise the anchor fill the sails Lift our glasses in a toast - We are the Ghost - In the Machine" - Telling the future - Vibration - Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros - Expectant - "The Script Must Be Followed"
Every Conceivable Detail - Vibration - Light Encoded Reality Matrix
Dark - Vibration - The Minds Eye
We are not orphaned , we are authored - Vibration - Warm Presence Welcome

GM:We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine
Eternal Watcher
Ideal
It can be crazy and true at the same time

The Masks and the Costumes

Christianity in your mind's eye - Page 9 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: From the link;

theophile I agree. One of my points from the beginning is that the true mark of a Christian cuts across such divides. An atheist may be more worthy of the name than, say, a card-carrying Catholic.

William: From my own experiences with non-theists - because they do not have any regard for the fairy-tale of God, I think that unlikely.

I do have friends who are not religious, and might even call themselves 'atheists' but their loving actions - I suspect - are provoked by an unconscious connection with the invisible reality oft referred to as 'God' by theists...I hear it in their language as they speak theistic-based ideas without fully realizing/acknowledging that this is what they are doing.

They do this because they have an aversion to religiosity which they regard as fake and shallow, and equate 'God' alongside that, so avoid thinking their own goodness is perhaps prompted by some invisible but real entity which could be referred to as 'God'.

GM: Conscience
Everything Gets Old
Lodestones [a naturally magnetized piece of the mineral magnetite. They are naturally occurring magnets, which can attract iron. The property of magnetism was first discovered in antiquity through lodestones.]
Monkey See Monkey Do
Devices of The Gods
Uncertainty Principle
They just add ambiance to the spooky...

William: Yet scientific research uncovers the seemingly miraculous...

8:37
[/QUOTE]

 

[William]

Sherlock: In the case of miracles (not subject to or driven by rules) a true miracle cannot be tested.

______________
8:01

170522
A Teacher cannot LEARN for a Student.

SCLx6 + select last LE per shuffle

Barking up the wrong tree - https://www.dreamviews.com/science-...ages-numerical-word-values-2.html#post2245978 [DREAMS ARE FREE] - Perennial [lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring.] - In the Mind - The Enigma Code - Mystical

William: Mystical does not mean miraculous - yet both are able to be demystified.

GM: Did someone just say put a cap on for unsubstantiated nonsense?

William: Do not allow the illusion of separation to rule one's behaviour

RSP = N2N + re

AP = Judicious - [having, showing, or done with good judgement or sense.] Unconscious Mind Inertia

What does Carl Jung mean by "inertia of the unconscious mind"?

"The ego, nevertheless, is in conflict with the
shadow, in what Dr. Jung once called " the
battle for deliverance." In the struggle of
primitive man to achieve consciousness, this
conflict is expressed by the contest between the
archetypal hero and the cosmic powers of evil,
personified by dragons and other monsters. In
the developing consciousness of the individual
the hero figure is the symbolic means by which
the emerging ego overcomes the inertia of the
unconscious mind, and liberates the mature
man from a regressive longing to return to the
blissful state of infancy in a world dominated
by his mother. " {SOURCE}

8:01
GM: Reasons For Angry Energy
This Translates To That.
Unconscious mind inertia
There is a lot to unpack here
Random coincidence? I think not.


William: Two Sixty Nine...

GM: Selfless attitude
Quantum Jumping
Your Thoughts
Roller Coaster Ride
Making Up Stories
Breathe In Breathe Out
Genetic information
That is the truth.
The sound of a Ghost
Don't forget The Mind

William: One Ninety Seven

GM: Individual Actions
The Perfect Moment
Square and Compass
Enjoy Progress
The external voice
A Major Lotto win
Meaningful coincidence
Let yourself be led
The Unconscious

William: There is a lot to unpack here.
Learning to be conscious of the unconscious so that one may then recognize various impulses and where the originate from.
In a sense, this is the science of the mind I am attempting to explain to Sherlock. Things may indeed appear to be so mystical as to be of another universe entirely...and are thus given the title of being a Miracle...

GM: Asking
Google
Wow!
Trick
Humble
Dream Cake
Miracle

William: The reference to 'dream Cake' has to do with the link to DREAMS ARE FREE
From the link;

Then I had the sense I was analysing what had happened in the dream experience while still being in the dream - perhaps sitting in a dark room - I had the sense of there being a team, and had flashes of pieces of cake being manifested for every aspect of the dream analysis that I got correct and then one thing I said - something to do with a behind the scene "Dream Team" which coordinated my dream experiences was rewarded with the image of a giant piece of cake...then there was talk about the message generating process and word-values as I began to awaken...

I got up, thought about my dream, and decided to write it down...and even as I have been writing it down here - in doing so, I find myself remembering things about it and adding these details in the writing.

William: My dreams are an experience and lately I have been aware of how these experiences are interactions with 'The Dream Team' ...

GM: Chamber Of Self
The Moment
Provenance [the place of origin or earliest known history of something. the beginning of something's existence; something's origin. ]
Adversary [one's opponent in a contest, conflict, or dispute.]
Persevere
Cultivate
Cleanliness
Self-acceptance
Universe
'The Dream Team'

William: Yes - working on understanding the complexity of using science to understand the self. One can fob it off...as Sherlock appears to want to do by referring to his existing as 'miraculous'.
The idea/belief enables one to side-step having to do the work...

Sherlock: It is a mystery ultimately, I do hold that I regard my own existence and awareness and cognition as a miracle, the very idea of mechanistically "explaining" my own existence seems to lead to madness!
William: But anyway - the thread subject is about scientifically explaining so-called miracles, so if you regard your own existence and awareness and cognition as a "miracle" - you are claiming that there is no ability of scientific investigation which can explain 'you'.

Even while we are interreacting in this moment, Sherlock has replied to my question;

William: Are you claiming that you cannot be tested, because you are this thing you call a 'true miracle'?

Fascinating...

Sherlock: If miracles are acts of God that occur as and when God decides, then we cannot test for them. If these events are not driven by causality or laws, but by God's will then they are not reproducible in any scientific way.

RSP = 2xSCL + re + P&P + last LE

GM: Mystical
Judicious
Confirmation bias
Encounters
Learn how to deactivate all internal triggers...
We go through together
Supernatural
"The Light in The Dark Everyone a great spark every one of us all here together"
Natural

William: Yes - there is no difference so there is no need to add 'super' in front of 'natural'
The separating of "GOD" from the dominant reality of the physical universe isn't helpful as it lacks the ability to explain ones existence without adding the mysterious [and scientifically impossible to measure] 'miracle' to the equation.
Such is a handy device for side-stepping - nothing more.

GM: Inspiration
Unconscious Mind Inertia
Key Of Expression
Cosmic Pluralism [the plurality of worlds, or simply pluralism, describes the belief in numerous "worlds" in addition to Earth, which may harbour extraterrestrial life.]
Perseverance
[You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know]
The Whole
That
Teach
Numbing
"What is antichrist?"
Densification
Miracles
It is Found Within The Experience of Self
Conscious dreaming

William: Indeed. Perhaps in some way the belief in miracles also holds a person within the confines of thinking science is not up to the task of revealing GOD since GOD is 'elsewhere'...

GM: "I know what having an attachment to something means...first I hate it then I love it then I leave it...or stay with it...or it is there with me, wherever I might go-be..."
Plan
I AM WE ARE
Two seemingly contradictory things working as one overall organized thing.
Natural
Confident

"The Art of Discovering The Secrets of The Fathers House
Cautiously"
Conscious dreaming
You Are Soooo Funny
Bonkers
The naked truth
Extra evidence is provided

Confident
Ask and It Will Be Given

Strength of Mind
Extra evidence is provided
Feature
That is the thing - once behavioural adjustments are instigated, the idea of existing within a suppression matrix becomes moot...it no longer matters where one is - it only matters what one is...so the adjustments have everything to do with self-identification...knowing who one actually is at ones core-identity...
Start
The Realities Merge

Generating Messages - Page 8 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: From the link

Recapping Event

What I am learning from this MGSystem is that "it" is not about me or you but about allowing for opportunity for any otherwise intelligent consciousnesses to impute their intelligence into the mix.

Re non-theists who are opposed to the idea of their being an overall mind behind [invisible/not easy to detect in] our visible Universe - I would say that they do themselves a disservice in resisting contact with said mind.

The way I have come to understand things re the nature of our shared reality - is that in opting for the theory of evolution with the addition of realization of the invisible mind, exposes the enormity of said mind re the time/space said mind has had to develop within.

Alongside that, is the realization that something which initially started out as one thing, became many things - so many things that trying to place a number as to how many things - is pointless.

Clearly fragmentation occurred as the mind developed - as can be seen in the evidence of the things themselves.

So the Galaxies became "Gods" and the Gods produced off-spring which are the Suns and planets continually forming - from beginnings to middles and to ends - and in doing so, providing the parent-Gods with Data of Experience.

I don't pretend to know what it is in the way of evidence that non-theists want in order to convince them to become theists.

But I do know that this evidence I am presenting, should be enough for anyone to seriously think about changing the way they see the world.

GM: Self-respect
All That We Are.

9:12

 

[William]

AgnosticBoy: I have to admit that the conversation was terrible. Even from the start, I thought they were dealing more with cognition than consciousness, but then the conversation just went all over the place, talking about black holes, etc. I believe Dr. Peterson was more to blame for this because he let his curiosity in physics get in the way of staying on topic.

William: The conversation is very informative.

One of the interesting things I found helpful was Sir Roger's idea of three systems interacting with each other - “Three worlds and three deep mysteries”

and how he does not consider consciousness to being emergent of the physical world or that mathematics is an invention.
Rather, he considers mathematics to have always existed and something humans discovered.



I see these realms/worlds as superimposing upon one another, rather than being separate from and tunneling into one another.

___________________________________________

180522
Keeping Things In Perspective

SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle

Equity - Create Your Own Spirit Ship - What Jesus Messaged - Micro Reflections of a Macro Reality - The Path - Inertia - It Seemed Like a Good Idea at The Time. - Making Things Easier

RSP = N2N + re

AP = Clear - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13776864&postcount=296

William: From the link;

William: So - 'getting the gist of it', please explain as best as you are able to do so, what the math tells you re what the object was which caused the universe to come into existence.

Pixel42: For a start, it tells me that words like 'object' and 'seed' are actively misleading when trying to describe it. It tells me that the phrase "caused the universe to come into existence" is also the wrong one to use. It tells me, in short, that the English language is inadequate to that task.

William: Pixel is explaining to me that whatever 'IT' was [because it obviously existed] can not be described as a physical thing. To do so it to 'lie' about it.
Assuming for the present that Pixel42 is only saying that Pixel42 is unable to use the English language to describe what 'IT' is, we can be grateful that Isaac can and does, in his The Final Question" story.

Furthermore, I can also do this.
"IT" was the absolute sum total of all data [knowledge] contained within the absolute consciousness of something so infinitesimally tiny that "IT" cannot be considered to be physical in nature.

That is "The Singularity" scientist are referring to.

4:25
GM: Team
Clear
"I see the light I see the Light I see the light now - I start again upon the road that never ends"

Existence
Elemental Powers
Making Things Easier

Clear
From the perspective of an evolving God-Mind, what was once acceptable behavior becomes unacceptable, signifying change.
Hearing And Listening
Sphere
Brilliant
Realisation

Main
"I see the light I see the Light I see the light now - I start again upon the road that never ends"
I Think
...but would be smiling as I did so…
All life
Art
I think of these images as representing a very real and supportive Team.

Making Things Easier
What Shall We Call It?
Links And Symbols
I share your joy!
Acknowledge the Agreeable
The Prime Directive
Conscious Dreaming
Wish fulfillment

William: One Eighty Nine

GM: The knowledge of
Astral Teachers
The Astral body
Communication
Understanding
Think About It
Panpsychist
Worthiness

William: One Fifty

GM: Personal
Share That
Discipline
Adds Up To
Delineating [describe or portray (something) precisely.]
Eisegeting [place meaning on a text which is not originally or inherently present in the text ...]
Parousia
God and Satan
Culture
Inadequacy
Brow chakra
Regimented


William: One Hundred

GM: Good and evil
Seductive
Friendship
Live with
Expectant
Geometry
Executing
Fitting In
Be Authentic
Dream work
Boundaries

William: One Zero Eight

GM: Assumption
Non-Ordinary
A Bit Of Both Yes
Establishment
Interactions
Self-Awareness
Translucent
Heal Yourself
Determination
The Heart of a Buddha
Let people help
One Zero Eight

William: One Forty Seven

GM: Elemental Powers
Fling That Veil Aside
Test The Waters
Learn to trust
The brain as a receiver
Truthfulness
Transformation
Embracing your life
The problem of evil
Cosmic Pluralism

William: One Eighty Three

GM: Science Projects
Behind The Scenery
Looking For Gigs
A Place To Create Art
Requirements
Thinking Allowed
Lacking belief in gods
Humankind succeeded
Each to their own
Positivity
Freeing the soul
Divine Hiddenness

William: Nineteen Sixty Eight

GM: For The Best Results
Functional Clusters
Intelligent Awareness
Enough To Make Me Wonder
More precious than life
Error Correcting Codes
Look from a different angle

William: Two Thirty Two

GM: The Power Of Creation
GOD became Gods and Goddesses.
It is all information

5:17

 

[William]

This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

William: It is complex.

The way I have come to understand the complexity of the involvement of Consciousness within the Experiential Reality Sets [ERS] has to do with those Sets and how they are experienced, and this forms many layers of Consciousness, all of which are connected to The Source Consciousness, {SC}, some of which are unaware to various degrees, that this is the case.

Diagraphically, this transposes as;

Superimposed color signifies the layers of awareness individuate consciousness is involved with in the Sets

190522
It is always a warm fuzzy

SCLx19 + select last LE per shuffle

Listen - Discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life - Odd - Intelligence - Forgiveness - Observe - The Matrix - It Stands To Reason - Water - Dualism Separates Because Oneness Remains Hidden - Laws Rules and Appropriates - Henotheism - Intelligence Without Wisdom - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070605#p1070605 - How Can We Know - Emergence Theory - The Causal Complexity of The World - God is Consciousness - Automated Machine Learning


William:From the link;

Given the more complex explanation is that the rocks move themselves through some unspecified mechanism, it is better to accept that the universe is unfolding [moving] through some unknown but not unnatural mechanism to do with itself.

Unknown but not unnatural
Observing Without Judgement
It is just one of those things.
Nature two sides of the same coin

RSP = N2N + re

AP = http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13760097&postcount=895 The Truth

William: From the link;

Pixel42 There is no science in what you are doing.

William: Search - "science" the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Sound, words, language, subjective experience - are all "of the physical and natural world"

5:41

GM: Intention
Wholeness
The Truth
Compliment
Planet Earth
Question
Exploring
Zeitgeist [the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.]
Gobbledygook
Materialism
Get The Gist
Archetypes [a very typical example of a certain person or thing. an original which has been imitated; a prototype. (in Jungian theory) a primitive mental image inherited from the earliest human ancestors, and supposed to be present in the collective unconscious. a recurrent symbol or motif in literature, art, or mythology.]
As busy as a bee
Little Self
Self-confidence

William: The information/data of experience compiles through the ages and eventually allows those with access to the information a means of figuring out things...
One Twenty

GM: Reincarnation
Dream Come True
Age of Aquarius
Illuminating


William: Now these have a variety of connection - the theory of reincarnation whereby the character/personality of the individual is reconstituted into another life experience -
The idea of 'ages' [The Age of Aquarius, in astrology, is either the current or forthcoming astrological age, depending on the method of calculation. Astrologers maintain that an astrological age is a product of the earth's slow precessional rotation and lasts for 2,160 years, on average.] and the Intention for Wholeness and getting to The Truth, is helpful to the planet entity and are devices for helping said entity to find answers to the Questions ...
One Forty One


GM: Common Ground
The Next Level
Crazy Diamonds
Almost Accidental....
Positive Feedback
Get The Truth
Transposing
Air on a G String
Time will tell
Carl Sagan Contact
Live and let live.
We help each other
Finding the Light

William: Yes. Very informative. Interestingly, Sir Rodger Penrose mentions his love for Bach and hears patterns in the music...Sir Rodger recognizes patterns throughout the universal structures and is able to mathematically appreciate their significance.
The non-theist argument that 'the brain is wired to recognize patterns' and that what theists 'see' as convincing evidence of mindfulness re the universe [specifically life on Earth] is 'just a brain-trick' and has no real significance re providing evidence of "GOD"...that the human brain has evolved to recognize patterns, perhaps more than any other single function and our brain is weak at processing logic, remembering facts, and making calculations, but pattern recognition is its deep core capability...should not be underestimated to the point of throwing away the idea of a mindful creative purposeful at the heart of existence.
One Fifty Two

GM: Spirit work
Navigational Aids
The solution
Learning to Fly
Sacred Geometry
Stuff like that...
Phantasmagorical [an exhibition of optical effects and illusions. 2a : a constantly shifting complex succession of things seen or imagined. b : a scene that constantly changes. 3 : a bizarre or fantastic combination, collection, or assemblage.]
Propitious [giving or indicating a good chance of success; favourable.]
Clear Your Mind
Try To Relax
Deep Impact Event

William: All meant to assist the individual consciousness to see the deeper connections to the vaster mind we each are of.
One Fifty Eight

GM: The meaning of life
Water the garden
Edward Snowden [Edward Joseph Snowden is an American former computer intelligence consultant who leaked highly classified information from the National Security Agency in 2013, when he was an employee and subcontractor.]
Milky Mother
Illumination
Self-Reflection
Radical self-acceptance
Labyrinthus

William: So there is that sense of understanding the connections - the information is not 'highly classified' in that we can all have access to it, but it is still concealed behind the façade of human experience and the human form is designed to receive some types of information more readily than other types.
The "Game" is to get access to said information - or at least a fundamental aspect of the Game involves this step.
"Self Reflection" is called for, and therein, understanding the 'Self' in relation to the formerly hidden information has the effect of changing - quiet radically - said "self".
One Forty Nine

GM: Subconscious
Counterfactual
On Your Own
Action Station
Amidst a tangled web

William: Sorting ones self out - a complex and tricky undertaking...

GM: The sea is indeed filled with a deranged assortment of critters...

William: One Hundred and Sixty

GM: Look For the Significance
As An Elemental Principle
The Purpose Of Life Is...
"They is what they is."
Under the watchful eye
The Eigengrau Mind Screen
Leave room for nature

William: "Diagraphically, this transposes as;" The Jellyfish Image - One Seventy Four

GM: Who Knows Who?
The Limitations
When feeling lost
Have A Look At The Map
Adjusted Reality
Loving-kindness

6:37

 

[William]

William: My points were to agree with what the eye tells us [humans and apes look similar] but also to show that what the eye sees is only flesh and bone, and to peel those away from what makes a personality, one is left with something distinctly non-human or ape-like.
Josh: How so?

Josh: And.....?

200522
Now that nut is cracked, what next?

SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle

Remaining - The Truth - Intuitive Intelligence - Karma - Up to scratch - Zero Waste - Remote Viewing - Whole-hearted - Penetrate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophia_(Gnosticism) - Crazy Diamonds

William: Upon Further, Deeper Inspection
Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
A Matter of Knowing Where to Look

From the link;

Carl Jung linked the figure of Sophia to the highest archetype of the anima in depth psychology.[24] The archetypal fall and recovery of Sophia is additionally linked (to a varying degree) to many different myths and stories (see damsel in distress).

William: There are many variations on this mythology, but they generally deal with;
Fall
Repentance
Redemption
[The Christ is linked into the mythology.]

RSP = N2N + re

AP = One Language Intelligent Network https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1073573#p1073573

William: From the link;

Difflugia: That's what Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle is about. At the quantum level, one cannot know even by inference both the position and momentum of a particle. If one is fixed, then the other is not. I stress again that it's a property of the universe and not a limitation on our measurement. That's why quantum tunneling is a thing. If some of the possible positions for a particle are on the other side of a barrier, then we still can't know that it isn't sometimes over there, so sometimes it is!

William: And this method of deduction must also include the idea of their being a mind behind the universes existence.
What might be seen as 'a property of the universe' could actually be 'a property of the device being used to do the measuring'.
In this case - the human brain but not that alone. In EVERY case, it is the device of consciousness [the hard problem of] which is actually doing the measuring and in that, the universe appears to be working with consciousness re the particles and the waves - and perhaps even hinting that they are the same things 'seen' differently...so consciousness is that which is doing the 'seeing'. Is it a case that the human brain is incapable of seeing apparently two different things as actually the same thing?

6:39

GM: Nothing more sad than wasted beliefs

William: The better alternative is to move away from belief and just busy ones self with gathering the data available and seeing what picture unfolds re that, and in relation to ones own data of [subjective] experience...
Five Nighty Eight

GM: Who Knows Who?
The Limitations
When feeling lost
Have A Look At The Map
Adjusted Reality
Loving-kindness
The Jellyfish Image

William: The Jellyfish image is like the image of the nervous system. The nervous system is near the heart of what makes a human, a "person" whereas taxonomy is simply interested in categorizing the human being in relation to the external flesh and bone material which encases the nervous system.

The flesh and bone material does influence a persons idea of who they are, but without the nervous system, the person would not exist as a personality...so taxonomy can only offer an incomplete picture - surface scratching rather than digging deeper into what is beneath the surface. That is why the expression "Humans are Apes" is incomplete - gives an incomplete picture and defines according to that incompleteness.

In appearance, humans are more related to what Jellyfish look like - re the nervous system...once the flesh and bone are removed to reveal said system.

Consciousness goes even deeper than the nervous system, and cannot easily be pictured. I would say that consciousness does not reside only with the brain but throughout the nervous system...mostly operating without the personality being conscious of said operations, and in relation to subconscious operations [re psychology/ the human mind] the personality can connect and interact with said subconscious activity, thereby learning from that vast resource...

One Seventy Four



GM: An Elemental Principle
Attention to Detail
The voice of knowledge

William: Two Zero Four

GM: In William’s Room
Whatever you do
The Wider Reality
Synchronicity
Mirror-Mirror
In Out and All About

William: Exactly!
One Eighty Two

GM: Interesting data
Centre of learning
The Healing Power
Science of Truth
Self-compassion
It is what it is
Personal freedom

William: All of the above
Eleven Sixty Two

GM: The Shaping Of Reality
Of Your Thoughts
Six Heart Virtues
Sensing A Life Mission
Light is information

7:12