Featured Matthew ch 16, verse 28, Jesus says “ . . there are some standing here who will not taste death . . ”

[AgnosticBoy]

@AgnosticBoy , I notice that you like drawing from websites which take a literalist interpretation of the Bible. Is this generally the case?

Not on purpose. I usually go for the easy-to-understand sites, like GotQuestions.org. I do think they are fairly reasonable and a good starting point, but that doesn't mean they're always right.

The words which were put in Jesus’ mouth — “there are some standing here who will not taste death” — which he may or may not have actually said,

but I think it just means the second coming was going to be soon.

I also think a lot of people accept that some of the apostles believed that Jesus would return during their lifetime.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.


I think it's the same topic as what we're covering here, but it doesn't come from Jesus. I think these passages are Paul's own belief and not something from Jesus as we find in Matt. 16:28.

Related threads:

Thread 'Is 1 Thessalonians 4:15 a failed prophecy?'

May 19, 2024

In 1 Thessalonians 4:15, the apostle Paul says that Jesus would return while he was alive. The apostle died and Jesus did not return.

1 Thessalonians 4:15
"According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep."

Paul says "we" who are alive which would include himself. He also says that this information is according to the "Lord's word" which to me means he's not giving his personal view, but something from God. But he does further qualify his...

• AgnosticBoy
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Christianity (section 1)

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Thessalonians 4 - New Living Translation

Live to Please God - Finally, dear brothers and sisters, we urge you in the name of the Lord Jesus to live in a way that pleases God, as we have taught you. You live this way already, and we encourage you to do so even more. For you remember what we taught you by the authority of the Lord Jesus...

www.biblegateway.com

from the New Living Translation —

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven with a commanding shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God. First, the believers who have died will rise from their graves. 17 Then, together with them, we who are still alive and remain on the earth will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Then we will be with the Lord forever.

———

Yes, in the Apostle Paul’s letter to the church at Thessalonica, it certainly looks like he believed Jesus would come back as a champion in the sky— and during the lifetime of many of the believers reading his letter.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

It would be one thing if Jesus was claiming that he would return during the lifetime of the Apostles. Jesus is supposed to be all-knowing so he would've definitely been proven wrong.

Paul has more leeway because he sometimes admits to stating opinion and not revelation.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Paul has more leeway

Of course, in Matthew chapter 16, it is Jesus saying this.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Gospel of Matthew - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

“The gospel is anonymous.”

———

Wow.

That is a blunt statement. But scholars look at the earliest copies of “Matthew,” and these just don’t have a name listed.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Of course, in Matthew chapter 16, it is Jesus saying this.

I posted an explanation earlier that explains this passage.

While I don't agree with the explanation completely, but I liked their approach. Basically what was said in Matthew 16 also has a parallel version in Mark and Luke's Gospel.

Matthew 16:28
28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

Mark 9:1
And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”

Luke 9:27
27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”

......................................

The Matthew passage talks about the coming of "son of man" while Mark and Luke talk about the coming of "kingdom of God". Those are two different emphasis. I also found another passages that suggests that the kingdom of God will be an internal event and not an external one, and this further makes Pentecost (particularly, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit) even more reasonable.

Luke 17:20-21
20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
Romans 14:17
17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,

1 Corinthians 3:16
16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst?

 

[Scooter]

I posted an explanation earlier that explains this passage

Hahaha…I posted an extensive explanation at the beginning of this thread, but it fell on deaf ears.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

the kingdom of God.”

To me, this is splitting hairs, like believers in Jehovah Witnesses approach who still put all this weight on 1914. And since persons born in that year are now 111 years old, no, there are not many of them left at all.

Since the JWs, or Jehovah Witnesses, will “dis-fellowship” members on doctrinal grounds AND pressure family members to break off contract, I have no trouble saying, the Jehovah Witness group is a cult.

PS. I am kind to them when I see them in public, because they need an out and an easier way to join more mainstream Christianity.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Earlier, I said Jesus can be viewed as both a zen master and an end-times preacher. To this, I’m going to add that he can be viewed as a traditionalist.

All of us, every human being, can be viewed as a variety of things. Especially if we have later legend stacked on top of what we did and said!

Be this as it may, I’m going to quote the beautiful Lord’s Prayer as an example of Jesus as traditionalist.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - King James Version

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men...

www.biblegateway.com

verses 9 to 13 —

After this manner therefore pray ye:

.

.

“Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

“Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

“Give us this day our daily bread.

“And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

“And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.”