Is the problem of evil enough to convince you that a God does not exist?

[Chapabel]

Therefore when those under grace die, it is not because they are being punished.

Death is still the punishment for sin. Since everyone sins, physical death is still real. However, the Bible speaks of the second death. The second death is experienced by those who reject Christ. The first death is physical while the second death is spiritual. Those who go through the second death are eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.

No where in the Bible is death a picture of an end of existence. Death always represents separation. When I die, my spirit will be separated from my body; my body goes into the ground and is separated from my family and loved ones. Those without Christ now are already spiritually dead. They are spiritually separated from God. That’s the reason Jesus said. “Ye must be born again.” He meant a person must experience the new, spiritual birth. If a person dies physically, while separated from God spiritually, they will experience eternity separated from God in Hell.

 

[William]

The Christian mythology is believed differently depending on which Christian organization tells its interpretation.
It is not solid enough to offer any sure truth.

From my perspective - given the evidence regarding what happens in the next phase - human belief systems create alternate experiences for those who believe, based upon what it is they believe.

Christian mythology is just one part of the information available regarding the next phase and is obviously shaped/influenced through Roman and Greek mythology, which is what moved it away from Hebrew mythology.

You are welcome to whatever beliefs you want. Personally I did not join this group to argue with Christians about their unproven beliefs...I have spent years already doing just that and have heard all the arguments and been never been persuaded to adopt them as my own.

I remain unconvinced that Christianity is the product of anything other than human imaginings and hierarchical manipulation techniques.

 

[William]

Well, Jesus said He would return. The angels said He would return. John received the Revelation of Jesus and saw Him return. I believe there is enough evidence that He will return. Since Jesus is God, and God cannot lie, I accept His return as truth.

To be clear - biblical Jesus was purported to have said and done a lot of things - none of which any evidence outside biblical writ has ever been shown in support of the alleged sayings and doings.

But even so, you did not address my actual point that the event may have been cancelled - if indeed it was really even promised at all.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Death is still the punishment for sin. Since everyone sins, physical death is still real. However, the Bible speaks of the second death. The second death is experienced by those who reject Christ. The first death is physical while the second death is spiritual. Those who go through the second death are eternally separated from God in the lake of fire.

No where in the Bible is death a picture of an end of existence. Death always represents separation. When I die, my spirit will be separated from my body; my body goes into the ground and is separated from my family and loved ones. Those without Christ now are already spiritually dead. They are spiritually separated from God. That’s the reason Jesus said. “Ye must be born again.” He meant a person must experience the new, spiritual birth. If a person dies physically, while separated from God spiritually, they will experience eternity separated from God in Hell.

Now that is a good counter to the problem of evil. I question if the problem of evil would carry much weight if no one really died in that there's an afterlife?! On emotional terms, bringing up the afterlife is a better counter to the problem of evil than free-will is.

 

[Chapabel]

To be clear - biblical Jesus was purported to have said and done a lot of things - none of which any evidence outside biblical writ has ever been shown in support of the alleged sayings and doings.

But even so, you did not address my actual point that the event may have been cancelled - if indeed it was really even promised at all.

It was indeed promised and it has not been cancelled. In fact, His return is imminent.

 

[Chapabel]

To be clear - biblical Jesus was purported to have said and done a lot of things - none of which any evidence outside biblical writ has ever been shown in support of the alleged sayings and doings.

To be clear - biblical Jesus was purported to have said and done a lot of things - none of which any evidence outside biblical writ has ever been shown in support of the alleged sayings and doings.

But even so, you did not address my actual point that the event may have been cancelled - if indeed it was really even promised at all.

You are not quite correct. There are other, non biblical references to Jesus Christ. Josephus, the first century historian, mentions Jesus and that many believed Him to be the Messiah.

If you doubt the Biblical Jesus, please provide supporting evidence for your unbelief. Please provide contemporaneous writings that refute the Biblical accounts. Who are your witnesses that claim Jesus never existed or never did the things claimed in the Bible. I eagerly await your evidence.

 

[William]

You are not quite correct. There are other, non biblical references to Jesus Christ. Josephus, the first century historian, mentions Jesus and that many believed Him to be the Messiah.

If you doubt the Biblical Jesus, please provide supporting evidence for your unbelief. Please provide contemporaneous writings that refute the Biblical accounts. Who are your witnesses that claim Jesus never existed or never did the things claimed in the Bible. I eagerly await your evidence.

Like I said - I have been through argument with Christians about the mythology and remain unconvinced. You are offering nothing new in regard to that and I as I also said, I did not join this particular site to get involved with arguing Christian beliefs.

My overall impression is that Christian beliefs will help the believer with their next experience phase due to the beliefs being largely positive, because the evidence I have studied re the subject of afterlife/alternate experience [NDEs and OOBEs] tend to show that individual beliefs have much to do with how those experiences play out.

 

[William]

Now that is a good counter to the problem of evil. I question if the problem of evil would carry much weight if no one really died in that there's an afterlife?! On emotional terms, bringing up the afterlife is a better counter to the problem of evil than free-will is.

The problem of evil refers to the challenge of reconciling belief in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God, with the existence of evil and suffering in the world.

If peoples beliefs and accompanying attitudes prevail in the next phase [afterlife] whereby they create for themselves their next reality experience, [either consciously or unconsciously] based upon said beliefs and attitudes, it would be a great ongoing tool in which the personality can learn to adjust their perception of both The Creator [of this universe re the problem of evil] and their self in relation to that.

Those who create darker places where more suffering is experienced through their beliefs and attitudes will do so because of the nature of the personality they nurtured while in this current reality.

The question of God [as religions generally image him] would not arise, if there were no such thing as dying, as it would be a pointless thing which could never be answered.
Dying does not guarantee any answer will be forth-coming on that subject, but if indeed one does continue on, many questions associated with that would likely be answered.

 

[Chapabel]

Like I said - I have been through argument with Christians about the mythology and remain unconvinced. You are offering nothing new in regard to that and I as I also said, I did not join this particular site to get involved with arguing Christian beliefs.

Hahaha…you don’t want to argue Christian beliefs? Ok, I don’t blame you. I wouldn’t want to argue from an untenable position either. Have a great day.

 

[William]

My position is tenable.

Faith-based beliefs are not.

Nor is arguing against such positions a worthwhile investment of time.

That is all I am saying as to my reason for participating on this site.

I am far more interested in discussing what is actually tenable, with agnostics.

Christian belief systems do not interest me anymore.