Only once it was established beyond any doubt that we exist within a creation. Until such - questions of GOD are cart before horse stuff. Can one be agnostic re the question of existing within a creation, or only re the question of creator?
I think it's smart to separate the two. Doing so eliminates a lot of baggage since presuming we exist in a creation does not have to involve the traditional gods. We can ask who or what created us.

Based on the common definition of agnosticism, which is uncertainty towards God's existence, I would say someone can only be agnostic towards the creator.
 
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Based on the common definition of agnosticism, which is uncertainty towards God's existence, I would say someone can only be agnostic towards the creator.
I agree. This is why I am not an agnostic, as the position is dictated by the G-question and limited in scope and is commonly defined [or at least thought of] as weak fence sitting by both theists and atheists alike.

My understand [recent] is that the battle between theists and atheists regarding the G-question is an ancient and pointless one as it is illogical to be arguing about the nature of Creator-Gods before it has even been established that we exist within a Creation.
The battle is all smoke and mirrors.

 
On the Question of GOD, I am a weak atheist/weak theist depending on how the one I am debating with identifies the position they are arguing from.

On the Question of Existing Within a Creation, I am continuing to investigate that possibility and the data to date definitely has me leaning toward it being the case that I exist within a creation.

[Whatever 'position' this might be called, it cannot be called theist or atheist or agnostic.]

 
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1. If 'weak atheism' is here to stay, then how is Agnosticism mutually exclusive to weak atheism?
2. I can understand why some atheists would want agnostics and even babies in their camp (e.g. boosting their numbers and/or make it seem natural or the default), but why would agnostics be against any "atheist" label? Should agnostics be against the atheist label?
After engaging in debates on weak atheism both here and elsewhere, I've now come to a slightly different conclusion than the one from my earlier post. I still accept the definition of weak atheism, but now I don't believe that it is practical or sustainable unless someone remains neutral in debates. Weak atheists aren't supposed to be convinced either way, but in debates I find that many of them think or have views (e.g. metaphysical naturalism or materialism) that are compatible with strong atheism.

With that said, I'm not convinced that agnostics can remain neutral either.* As soon as you lean one way or the other on the issue of God's existence then you're no longer neutral and it will eventually show in your debates. However, I do believe that agnostics tend to be more moderate in their views than atheists, on average. I also still accept that it's possible for agnostics to not know what they believe or not be settled on the issue of God's existence.

*As an agnostic, I've transitioned from trying to be neutral to just being nonpartisan. I think that quality contributes to the intellectual honesty that agnostics are known for.
 
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I think my understanding shifted when I came to the realization that theism involved claiming that a Creator or Creators existed and atheism became a reaction to the claim.

I find the subject of Creator(s) existing interesting, therefore I find theism interesting re that.
I find atheism boring, and my experience with atheists over the years has convinced me that there is no point in engaging with them at all.

But the realization that there might be Creator(s) took me to the logical conclusion that the question of GOD only pointed to the question of Creation, and realizing the logical - the question of GOD [Quog] was the cart before the horse - because IF there is a creator, THEN we must exist within a creation.

Therefore any evidence for there being a creator could only be found within the creation.

That is why the Quog becomes secondary to the question of creation [Quoc]

That is also why it is possible for me [or anyone] to be neither atheist or theist or even agnostic because I do not have to hold a position on the Quog.
_____________

You mentioned an experience you had recently...something about dreaming and having an OOBE?

Would you like to start a thread and share more detail?

Cheers

W
 
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You mentioned an experience you had recently...something about dreaming and having an OOBE?

Would you like to start a thread and share more detail?
Sure, just let me know where.
 
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