The skeptics will say that mediation is not a scientific tool. Perhaps to these skeptics, science can only be done in a lab.

One skeptic, Einstien, spent little time in the lab. His methods were "thought" experiments -- a sort of intense, disciplined meditation. He was capable of turning meditation into enlightenment-- no easy feat.
There is no good reason for why meditation has worked for thousands of years as explained by many Eastern thinkers and religions but then it somehow becomes worthless in the West.

Most every intelligent human being has wondered about the origin of life and the universe. And I agree that meditation may offer some in-road toward unraveling those mysteries.

Eastern philosophers don't have a lock on meditation; it just seems that is the case. But I haven't seen much in the way of scientific discoveries emanating from that region of the planet since their discovery of algebra and the concept of zero.

To some degree Westerner thinkers meditate also -- they are just not as obvious about doing so. If Easterner thinkers are miffed about not receiving enough respect, maybe their problem is their depending too much on spirituality.
 
William: I read a question today which asked “Why do scientists focus more on the things they are aware of instead of on the awareness itself?”

GPT: The question you read raises an interesting philosophical and scientific point. It pertains to the distinction between studying the objects or phenomena that we are aware of and studying the nature of awareness itself, which can be thought of as the study of consciousness.

Scientific Focus on Objects and Phenomena: In traditional scientific research, scientists typically focus on studying the physical world and the phenomena that can be objectively observed, measured, and tested. This approach has led to significant advances in our understanding of the natural world, and it has been highly successful in explaining and predicting various aspects of reality.

The Challenge of Studying Awareness: Consciousness, or awareness itself, is a unique and complex subject of study. It is inherently subjective, and individual experiences of consciousness can be difficult to quantify and measure in the same way that we can measure physical properties or phenomena. This has led to challenges in studying consciousness using traditional scientific methods.

Emerging Interest in Consciousness Studies: In recent years, there has been a growing interest in the scientific study of consciousness. Researchers from various fields, including neuroscience, psychology, and philosophy, have been exploring the nature of consciousness and attempting to develop scientific theories and methodologies to understand it. This is sometimes referred to as "consciousness studies."

The Dual Focus: While most scientific research still focuses on the objects and phenomena that exist in the world, there is a growing recognition of the importance of understanding awareness itself. This dual focus can be seen in the development of fields like neurophilosophy and the integration of consciousness studies with neuroscience.

Ultimately, the question you mentioned highlights a fundamental tension between the objective, external focus of traditional science and the subjective, internal nature of consciousness. Scientists are increasingly exploring both aspects, but the study of awareness itself presents unique challenges that continue to be a subject of debate and investigation in the scientific community.


William:
I think there is a branch of science which is focused upon trying to understand mindfulness – but those secrets as less readily available to the process of science than are visible/readily available objects.

Indeed the “object” of the mind is itself, apparently subjective.

GPT: ou're absolutely right. The study of mindfulness and the inner workings of the mind fall under the broader field of psychology and neuroscience. Mindfulness is a state of awareness and attention to the present moment, and it's often associated with practices like meditation. This field has gained increasing attention in recent years due to its potential benefits for mental health and well-being.
However, you've also correctly pointed out that the "object" of the mind, in this case, is inherently subjective. Unlike many objects of scientific study that are external and can be observed and measured objectively, the contents and processes of the mind are personal and often elusive. This subjectivity poses challenges to traditional scientific methods, which rely on objective, replicable measurements and observations.
To study mindfulness and the mind effectively, researchers use a combination of methods, including:

Self-reporting: Individuals are often asked to describe their mental experiences, emotions, and levels of mindfulness. While self-reporting is subjective, it provides valuable insights into the inner workings of the mind.

Neuroimaging: Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) and other neuroimaging techniques allow scientists to observe brain activity associated with mindfulness and related states. These studies can reveal which brain regions are active during mindfulness practices.

Behavioral measures: Researchers use behavioral tests and tasks to assess cognitive and emotional changes associated with mindfulness.

Longitudinal studies: These involve tracking changes in mindfulness and well-being over time to better understand the effects of mindfulness practices.

While the study of mindfulness and the mind's inner workings faces unique challenges due to subjectivity, it's still a valuable and growing area of scientific research. The integration of subjective experience with objective measurements and the development of new methodologies are helping to advance our understanding of these topics. Additionally, the practical benefits of mindfulness in promoting mental health and well-being make this area of research highly relevant and impactful.
 
Neurophilosophy? I'll have to look that up.
Are you quoting me or GPT?

Googled and got the following.
Neurophilosophy or philosophy of neuroscience is the interdisciplinary study of neuroscience and philosophy that explores the relevance of neuroscientific studies to the arguments traditionally categorized as philosophy of mind. Wikipedia
 
I looked it up and, WOW, if scientists and philosophers ever get a handle on neurophilosophy, that science might make great progress toward treating a host of brain malfunctions like epilepsy and Alzheimer's disease! However, it seems to me that its development is still a whim in Patricia Churchland's mind, who is devoted to its becoming a science (useful).

You and I and the world gives hope that she or someone achieves that goal.
 
Last edited:
Are you quoting me or GPT?

Googled and got the following.
Looks like a chat GPT response to you.

Neurophilosophy or philosophy of neuroscience is the interdisciplinary study of neuroscience and philosophy that explores the relevance of neuroscientific studies to the arguments traditionally categorized as philosophy of mind. Wikipedia
(y)(y)
I believe both philosophy and science need each other. Philosophers tend to be good at putting things into proper perspective and explaining the nuances and implications. I'm just not a fan of philosophy when it gets bogged down on meta topics that have little to no real world practical value, like the philosophy of philosophy. I guess trained philosophers have the time to break topics down into very deep levels of analysis.
 
Looks like a chat GPT response to you.


(y)(y)
I believe both philosophy and science need each other. Philosophers tend to be good at putting things into proper perspective and explaining the nuances and implications. I'm just not a fan of philosophy when it gets bogged down on meta topics that have little to no real world practical value, like the philosophy of philosophy. I guess trained philosophers have the time to break topics down into very deep levels of analysis.
I think also that such may serve the "non-materialist and non-supernaturalist" position (agnostic?) which could do with a well developed philosophy and such might be included as part of said philosophy.

Science (re explanations) has its philosophy (re what the information might "point to") as theories/hypothesis are philosophies/make up what can be referred to as "philosophy".

What tends to happen with philosophy is that folk can become dogmatic or treat the philosophy as "true" and in that, find it difficult to move beyond those boarders - be they based in Materialism or Supernaturalism.
 
I am trained as an engineer but I love philosophy! History, memoirs and biographies make up my reading time. As a civil engineer I worked in twenty-some countries and received an education on multiple cultures. Philosophies differ from culture to culture, and let's face it, we all are philosophers of some sort.

Because of that enormously broad audience, Philosophy is burdened with so much subjectivity that specific disciplines are difficult to be put into quantifiable terms. It is a shame to say, but it needs its own mathematics to make inroads toward specific problems. But as a pointer to problems, it is invaluable!

It seems to me that spirituality is only a placebo to those mental problems, but then spirituality is also a philosophy.