Thesis — after being attacked, Israel has the right to destroy Hamas military capacity

[Multicolored Lemur]

Israel hammers Gaza with airstrikes as Hamas' atrocities revealed: Live updates

Gaza's humanitarian crisis deepened Thursday, with warnings people are at risk of starvation, amid Israel's bombardment in response to Hamas' brutal terror attack. Follow live updates here.

amp.cnn.com

“ . . . as Israel maintained a siege and bombarded targets in response to the Hamas terror attacks that killed more than 1,200 people. . . ”

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Just like after World War II, we in the United States had the right to demand and carry out that Japan have no military indefinitely into the future. Which in practical terms, lasted 3+ generations.

By doing an attack which targeted civilians, Hamas forfeited the right to have a military.

And Israel should be reasonably careful to avoid civilian casualties. And yes, people can disagree on what “reasonably careful” means.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I’m going to ask an obvious question—

Was Hamas the governing authority, or is it someone else who was asleep at the wheel?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I also believe Israel has a right to defend itself. In doing so, they should take all possible precautions to avoid human casualties. In fact, I think Hamas needs to be taken out entirely since they are a terrorist organization based on their actions. It would also help if Palestinians, including Palestinian Americans, should distinguish themselves from Hamas. It would've been one thing for Hamas to attack just military targets (even that would be questionable as far as if it would be justified), but instead they killed a lot of helpless people and kidnapped others.

Was Hamas the governing authority, or is it someone else who was asleep at the wheel?

Edit: The Palestinian National Authority is the internationally recognized government of Palestine, with the president being Mahmoud Abbas. It seems they have little control in Gaza, otherwise they should've also been responsible for stopping Hamas.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

In doing so, they should take all possible precautions to avoid human casualties.

“all possible” may be just too high a standard.

Look at “Operation Chastise” from 1943. The Allies bombed 3 Nazi dams, taking out 2 of them. And of course civilians died in the resulting flash floods, including some slave laborers [whom we should be rescuing when we can]

 

[AgnosticBoy]

“all possible” may be just too high a standard.

Look at “Operation Chastise” from 1943. The Allies bombed 3 Nazi dams, taking out 2 of them. And of course civilians died in the resulting flash floods, including some slave laborers [who we should be rescuing when we can]

Yes, that's true. I was just talking about this point to someone else. It's a war so we can't expect civilians to feel nice and comfy while large scale gun battles are happening around their house. In general, I think if hardship on civilians can be avoided then it should be. Israel might go too far in their response if that's not a consideration.

Either way, we both agree that Israel has a right to defend itself even if there is collateral damage. I just wonder what's going to be left of the Palestinian land after all of this is.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Was Hamas the governing authority, or is it someone else who was asleep at the wheel?

And I think we have our answer...Reported by Reuters:

Oct 15 (Reuters) - The Palestinian Authority's official news agency published comments on Sunday by President Mahmoud Abbas that criticized Hamas over its actions but later removed reference to the militant group without providing an explanation.

The comments, published by WAFA on its website, came during a phone call between Abbas and Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro. The two discussed Israel's bombardment of Gaza following Hamas' deadly rampage through Israeli cities.

The original WAFA report on Abbas' call included the line: "The president also stressed that Hamas' policies and actions do not represent the Palestinian people, and the policies, programs and decisions of the (Palestine Liberation Organization) represent the Palestinian people as their sole legitimate representative."

Several hours later, the phrase was adjusted to read: "The president also stressed that the policies, programs, and decisions of the PLO represent the Palestinian people as their sole legitimate representative, and not the policies of any other organization."
Abbas' Palestinian Authority exercises limited self-rule in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. He has long been opposed to Hamas, which seized control of Gaza in 2007 and ousted Fatah party forces loyal to Abbas. Years of reconciliation talks between the rivals have failed to reach a breakthrough.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

movie about June 4, 1942 Battle of Midway

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Jump forward a couple of years and as an analogy . . .

If in the Summer of 1945 before the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Japanese had offered to surrender with the one condition that they get to keep their Emperor—

would we, or should we, have accepted?

Please assume we get everything else we want. Japan abolishes their Army and Navy forever, they agree to on site inspections without limit. Maybe they even agree to 99-year leasing of land [at a token rate] for a U.S. military base if we feel we need that.

I say, Accept the deal.

Now, we’d need to see the most hardcore Japanese Army commanders actually withdrawing including leaving heavy weapons behind. And we’d have to see the most hardcore Navy commanders tying up or otherwise disabling the big guns on the Battleships and maybe overloading these ships with sailors on the way home, while other boats are abandoned or scuttled.

And we need to see this before we stop fighting.

But Yes—

If we get all this, we’ll accept a “conditional” surrender in name only with Japan getting to keep their Emperor, which we in fact did allow and were fine with anyway.

* Japan abolishing it’s military “forever” lasted some 3+ generations, which I think is about the most we can realistically hope for under any circumstances.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

What I mean is, Hamas needs to surrender. And I realize that’s a big ask.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

What I mean is, Hamas needs to surrender. And I realize that’s a big ask.

Agreed. Some of the latest protests have focused on calling Israel to do a cease fire, but meanwhile I don't see Hams being called to do the same as they also continue to fire rockets. One reason I would still eliminate Hamas even if they stopped firing rockets is because they have as a stated goal to eliminate the Jews. That is not conducive for any peace plan.

I would also hope that the head of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas, steps up in expelling Hamas, as well. It's like he is passive in all of this when he could be playing a bigger role like holding talks, visiting the region.

Abbas heads the Palestinian Authority, which partially administers the West Bank. His Fatah movement is a rival of Hamas, which controls Gaza.

Abbas is under pressure from Palestinians because of the Israeli and Egyptian blockade on the Gaza Strip and the devastating Israeli airstrikes on Gaza in response to Hamas’ attack.

- NBC news