”Buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him”
. . .
the obvious inference being that the “new life” is supposed to begin right then

In the same Romans chapter 6 Paul says this experience is a matter of GROWTH. In verse 3 he speaks of being baptized into His death.
In verse 5 Paul indicates that this is an experience one GROWS into.

For if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection, (Rom. 6:5)
 
bbyrd009 comment is more about the DEPTH of one knowing Christ.
Of course there are levels of experience from newly saved to more mature to more mature still.

I think bbyrd009 is jumping the gun prematurely into "How deeply is one benefitting from knowing Christ and His work."

I think we should back up a bit to initially meeting the resurrected Lord Jesus.
Buried with Him, raised with Him and all this comes as one grows in the fellowship with Jesus.
 
In the same Romans chapter 6 Paul says this experience is a matter of GROWTH. In verse 3 he speaks of being baptized into His death.
In verse 5 Paul indicates that this is an experience one GROWS into.

For if we have grown together with Him in the likeness of His death, indeed we will also be in the likeness of His resurrection, (Rom. 6:5)
“if you have died to self, then you will also understand that you are already as resurrected as you ever will be”
 
and fwiw dont get me started on the poor imo translation of “Lord,” which is essentially an Englyshe Loafwearden with a Title, subject to a king…suffice it to say that kurios likely has a better translation, that i would leave anyone with sense to interpret for themselves
 
It is a fashionable for some peope adopt the attitude - "Why make yourself a skeptic." Does being a skeptic automatically carry with it the presumption that one must also be wise ? Ie. "Make yourself skeptical and people will deem you wise"
Is it fashionable? Yes, especially on college campuses. Is it wrong? Not necessarily, but probably like you, I think that it is overrated. Being open-minded, which is something I advocate for, tends to be underrated. So in other words, no, being a skeptic doesn't necessarily make you wise. I'm just playing the role to press you on the details and to challenge you to show that it is reasonable.

Do you think skeptical people expect that others will presume that they must be wise too?
I question that, that skepticism is always a automatic sign of good insight, common sense, and good judgment.
Of course not!
 
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Knowing Jesus is predicated on two important things.

1.) He is alive. If Jesus is dead and gone the Good News is in vain. We can forget all about the Gospel if Christ is not risen from the dead.

2.) We have to use a part of our being which we never used before - our spirit.
For we can only touch, "taste", enjoy and experience fellowship with the resurrected Christ by this neglected "organ" of our being - oor human spirit.

To repeat the above - if Christ is not raised from the dead we cannot know Christ. We might as well eat, drink, be merry for tomorrow we die and rot.

And there is an organ of our being called the spirit. is not to be confused with the soul of man. This neglected spirit is in a comatose and deadened state. It must be enlivened to function normally. When our spirit (different from our human soul) is reborn there is no problem to our ability to fellowship with the resurrected Son of God.
I like that explanation. It's a good start.

But here's a good way I would test that. Does such relationship feel and/or lead to anything in your life that would only come from that and not nothing else? For instance, if the day I become a believer, all of my stress goes away, I'm cured of some disease, and I suddenly win the lotto, then that would be an unmistakable sign or at least a strong case for one that having a relationship with God works But too often I find Christians attributing things to God or their relationship that can be explained by other things. This is why I'm asking for reliable ways to know that you have some relationship with God, and how would that manifest, etc.
 
I like that explanation. It's a good start.

But here's a good way I would test that. Does such relationship feel and/or lead to anything in your life that would only come from that and not nothing else? For instance, if the day I become a believer, all of my stress goes away, I'm cured of some disease, and I suddenly win the lotto, then that would be an unmistakable sign or at least a strong case for one that having a relationship with God works But too often I find Christians attributing things to God or their relationship that can be explained by other things. This is why I'm asking for reliable ways to know that you have some relationship with God, and how would that manifest, etc.
ot you might “lay a fleece,” which i gotta say worked for me quite amazingly, nt seems a bit more coded, but What did you go out into the wilderness to see? Working out the few possibilities given, and replying honestly kind of describes your path, imo

ive found that there is quite a bit of…misdirection? going on in particularly the nt, but its really hard to pin down; Apollos waters is kind of a clue imo, meaning maybe that ppl are initially attracted by the possibility of immortality (self-aggrandizement), but once you read a little deeper that gets refuted pretty soundly, and it is these that are likely those having a form of godliness, while a seeker goes on to ego-death “surrender,” and it becomes more apparent that these are the very people that we “save” in times of trouble. Which is all encoded in the Esau/Jacob cycle, i think
 
I like that explanation. It's a good start.

But here's a good way I would test that. Does such relationship feel and/or lead to anything in your life that would only come from that and not nothing else?
The first sense in coming to Christ is probably the sense of peace towards God. The night I called "Lord Jesus, take me home. I'm tired Jesus. Take me" I felt like a flushed toilet. I mean crud, filth, dirt, and stench which had accumated in my heart, memory and conscience suddenly FLUSHED away. I felt as a ton of weight rolled off of me.

I had been so used to walking around with this weight on my coscience that I figured it was just part of life. But much was subconscious also. But when I came to Jesus calling on Him as God's Spirit or love and mercy flooded in the sludge of my sins and offenses was flushed OUT.

The word confirms my experience when Jesus told the thirsty crowd to come unto Him and drink.

Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 6:37-39)

Out of one's human spirit, one's innermost being, flows the Person of the Holy Spirit - refreshing, quenching, supplying and miraculously answering to the calling on the name of the Lord Jesus. "Rivers of LIVING water" is how Jesus discribed the Spirit.

But each case of a sinner coming to Jesus is also unique. He knows in infallible detail each of our situations. He is the Great Physician and the Friend of Sinners. He knows our heart and the healing art. No one can do an "inside job" healing like Jesus Christ can.


For instance, if the day I become a believer, all of my stress goes away,
I'll address these one by one.
I would say rather than all stress went away it was like this -
A man is up to his neck in quicksand. He feels overwhelmed and about to slip under the mud.
But a mighty HAND suddenly grasps his hand. And he instantly KNOWS - "It will be alright. Someone is holding me. I can feel His faithfulness, His power, His strengtth, His undying love."

No, ALL my problems did not go away. But I knew I was on solid ground and all would be alright. Peace. God is now in control.
The One who walks upon the waves has my hand, I am saved from my own stubborn way.


The idea of winning loads of materials goodies to too superfiscial to speak to.
Christ is not the great ATM in the sky. I have experienced outward blessings for sure.
But Jesus is into changing hearts from the inside.
 
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