Genesis 19 — Lot himself has sex with his 2 daughters ? ! ?

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 19 - King James Version

And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your...

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30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37 And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

38 And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

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It blames the daughters, 100%! And that’s usually not the way alcohol and incest happens.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

and the last part, with the 1st daughter being the founder of this group of people, and the 2nd daughter being the founder for this other group—

that just seems like a story made up after the fact to explain the two groups.

In other words, it sounds a lot like an urban legend.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

and the last part, with the 1st daughter being the founder of this group of people, and the 2nd daughter being the founder for this other group—

that just seems like a story made up after the fact to explain the two groups.

In other words, it sounds a lot like an urban legend.

Agreed.

From what I've researched so far, it looks like the book of Genesis was written during the time that the Jews were in exile in Babylon. Perhaps the author was aware of some of the Babylonian creation myths and sought to use that to express the origins of the Jewish people. A lot of the narratives in Genesis should probably be read keeping that understanding in mind.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Idea — Lot’s best friend beats him up.

Or at least tries to. If Lot is going to do something abusive like that, his friend is going to fight him.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

and maybe to prevent sexual abuse.

For example, if a friend is talking about his teenage step daughter in a sexualized manner . . .

Yes, it’s a judgement call. But you know your friend, you go ahead and make that judgement call.

Maybe you ask, “What’s going on. You are more into her than is healthy, don’t you think?”

And if this escalates . . .

Maybe if he pushes you, you push back.

And if it becomes a physical altercation, that may not be the worse thing in the world.

Maybe you even ask one more question than is polite — “If you do something to her, do I have permission to kick your butt, or at least try to. And are you going to stand there and take it?”

* “kick your butt,” or similar, is American slang for best you up.

And yes, typically, people who commit sexual abuse how a low level of maturity, in which the threat of getting beat up might help things.

So yes, you risk losing the friendship. You risk getting beat up yourself.

And please notice, I’m talking about preventing sexual abuse. Hopefully, any fight might happen before the first round of abuse.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

And yes, typically, people who commit sexual abuse how a low level of maturity, in which the threat of getting beat up might help things.

A friend of mine spent a few years in jail, and he told me that there are two crimes that even those in jail find to be very wrong. In the male's unit, it's sexually abusing kids. In the women's unit, it is killing/neglect of your children. Inmates usually have their own form of justice for those who commit those crimes, although the justice from the guy's unit for a sexual abuser is more known about.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

A friend of mine spent a few years in jail, and he told me that there are two crimes that even those in jail find to be very wrong. . .

I wish your friend all the best. And I hope he’s highly successful in turning over a new leaf.

And I appreciate that he’s telling the way things are instead of saying how things should be.

But no—

I’m not in favor of prisoners doling out justice. For starters, it gets out of hand. A lot of male inmates are sexually abused, primarily just because they’re young and slender. And women inmates are abused by fellow women, I’m guessing often for the same or similar reasons.