You forgive for yourself. But it doesn’t mean, be a fool.
As the article pointed out, the man remained in prison. From the picture, the man seems confused and uncertain — as if he doesn’t know why the Pope is there!
Zen Flow — Pope John Paul II forgives attempted assassin same day in May 1981, visits assassin Christmas time 1983
- Thread starter Multicolored Lemur
- Start date
You forgive for yourself. But it doesn’t mean, be a fool.
As the article pointed out, the man remained in prison. From the picture, the man seems confused and uncertain — as if he doesn’t know why the Pope is there!
You can scroll through that entire issue of Time magazine. You can also touch and pick “Save to Photos,” where you can later thumb-and-finger expand it and actually read it.
1st column, 1st full paragraph
John Paul says —
“But Providence took things in its own hand, in what I would call an extraordinary way, so that today after two years I was able to meet my assailant and repeat to him the pardon I gave him immediately . . . ”
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“Immediately” might be overly ambitious. Maybe within an hour after you’re safe and getting help.
But one difficult thing, with both war and domestic violence, you may not be safe and you may not be getting help.
AgnosticBoy
Open-minded Skeptic
I'm a believer in forgiveness, but knowing myself, I probably could not forgive someone immediately. I'd want to forgive, but it would take time and I'd only do so seeing signs that someone has repented. The foolish thing is forgiving someone would see to do your harm again. If forgiveness means forgetting someone's past wrongs, then you can count me out of forgiving someone who is trying to kill me even after a failed attempt.
I think they’re are a broad range of ways that are just fine.
AgnosticBoy
Open-minded Skeptic
A lot of the details are also on pg. 28 of your article. I question if the would-be assassin actually repented or felt sorry in any way. I guess it doesn't hurt to at least let the guy know that you're willing to forgive him and that might even help him feel some remorse instead of just feeling like some monster that tried to kill a religious leader.
The Pope mentioned on pg. 28, that he pardoned the guy and that he had "his complete trust". That's where my view about needing to see signs of repentance comes in. I would've said that the whole thing about the Pope visiting his assassin was just for who but then again it seems he routinely visited inmates.
The Pope mentioned on pg. 28, that he pardoned the guy and that he had "his complete trust". That's where my view about needing to see signs of repentance comes in. I would've said that the whole thing about the Pope visiting his assassin was just for who but then again it seems he routinely visited inmates.
I remember around 2002 —
a Dallas-area church took teenagers on a bus trip to a Summer camp. The driver either fell asleep or was adjusting a mirror. So, there was sloppiness. The bus crashed into a concrete support for an overpass, and the bus was basically sheared in two lengthwise.
4 of the young adults died. And the rest seemed basically okay [although you’ve got to figure some had concussions, knee injuries, back injuries, etc]
People in the church community gathered pretty much on their own at the church. That evening, the pastor led song and prayers.
At one point, he said, And please pray for the driver.
Someone in the audience yelled, No, No.
The pastor said, He had family, too. Just forgive him, just forgive him in your heart right now.
• and remembering back, it may have her several people in the audience who yelled, No
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I think this was a positive exchange. I’m glad one or several persons yelled out. And I’m glad the minister responded from the heart right away.
a Dallas-area church took teenagers on a bus trip to a Summer camp. The driver either fell asleep or was adjusting a mirror. So, there was sloppiness. The bus crashed into a concrete support for an overpass, and the bus was basically sheared in two lengthwise.
4 of the young adults died. And the rest seemed basically okay [although you’ve got to figure some had concussions, knee injuries, back injuries, etc]
People in the church community gathered pretty much on their own at the church. That evening, the pastor led song and prayers.
At one point, he said, And please pray for the driver.
Someone in the audience yelled, No, No.
The pastor said, He had family, too. Just forgive him, just forgive him in your heart right now.
• and remembering back, it may have her several people in the audience who yelled, No
==========
I think this was a positive exchange. I’m glad one or several persons yelled out. And I’m glad the minister responded from the heart right away.
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5 killed in Texas church bus crash
Hundreds gathered at a Texas church to sing, pray, and mourn for the five people killed in a bus crash on their way to a Louisiana church camp.
www.deseret.com
the persons killed in this accident from 20 plus years ago —
girl, age 14
boy, age 12
girl, age 16
girl, age 13
and the bus driver, a 51-year-old man
Plus, at least 36 persons injured on the bus. So, a real random aspect to the accident.
If a person was there, of course there’s going to be some degree of survivor’s guilt, maybe even guilt that you don’t feel worse about the whole thing!
And so, instead of just churning over in a person’s mind why? … why? , in situations like this, I’m glad I’m an atheist / agnostic. And I can view it as basically just luck, no more, no less.
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AgnosticBoy
Open-minded Skeptic
Again, another good illustration of forgiveness, or at least seeking it. But I still don't think I could do it on demand, even if i were a Chrisitan. Maybe I could do it if I had a lot of practice.
You're right. Religious people are probably more prone to ask why because they think everything has a purpose if God is in charge, and so they'll ask why did God allow it to happen.
Wasn't there also a case in Texas where a White female police officer entered the wrong apartment. SHe thought it was hers so she shot the occupants that she found inside. The occupants were Black. I think the brother of one of the victims forgave the police officer during trial and that even moved the judge to tears. I'll see if I can find that story.
AgnosticBoy
Open-minded Skeptic
Yep, it was in Dallas, Texas. What's going on in Texas? Thought all the barbecue would've kept things calm there!
The video caption reads:
Former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger was sentenced on Wednesday to serve 10 years in prison for the fatal 2018 killing of an innocent man she shot when she mistakenly entered his apartment believing it was her own.
But in a remarkable act of kindness, the brother of the victim took the witness stand and spoke directly to Guyger, saying, "I love you like anyone else," and later hugged her in the courtroom before she was led off to prison.