Page 131
GM: Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation
William: FTL;
GM: Human beings can do it the hard way or the easy way, but either way, the job will get done.
Illusion
William: FTL;
GM:"You Have An Invisible Friend
Expression Of Appreciation of Experience"
William: Expression Of Appreciation of Experience You Have An Invisible Friend = 686
[686]
What is time if you have already lived through multiple eternities?
"Be Nice Do Nice" Induce Species The Purpose Working with the simulation
GM: Down Your Way
Journey
Black Tuesday
Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.]
Nuclear
Steps
The Creation
We Can Do Magic! What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
The Supernatural and the Bible Delineating Quantum
An Exam [Virtual]
How is it 'logical' to assume 'magic' when magic is the very thing which proposes something coming from nothing?
Having To Learn a Whole Other Language
Ignoring...
William: FTL;
GM: Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It
What can I say, except "Thank You"
William: FTL;
GM: Is a Constant
Father Wound
Time And Space
Inclinations
Fling That Veil Aside
Vitriolic [filled with bitter criticism or malice.]
What things are unrelated
Relationship True Colors On all fronts
Navigational Aids
Attempting to overlay/superimpose one's belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real.
[RTS 13:50]
Congratulations on your finding a match to burn
"Dying
There is an art to flying or rather a knack..."
From the link
Exactly
More
As In...
Victim
What The Gods See
"The Power Of...
Yes, I Hear You"
WingMakers
Self-Immurement [literally "walling in") also called immuration or live entombment is a form of imprisonment, usually until death, in which a person is sealed within an enclosed space without exits.]
GM: Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation
Generating Messages - Page 12 - Debating Christianity and Religion
debatingchristianity.com
William: FTL;
[Replying to historia in post #80]
Also, not every discussion on this forum is strictly for/against Christianity, like the broad question of whether God exists, or, you know, this thread. In many of those discussions, the distinction between atheism and agnosticism remain important, as you already agreed.
So I don't see a compelling reason in your responses to collapse them together.
From what I think I understand so far, on the question of whether a creator [GOD] exists, a person who say's "maybe-maybe not" is categorized as a "weak atheist" by atheists, due to the not knowing and not having faith so not believing.
It is a simple matter of belief, because if there is a Creator GOD - there is no direct way of knowing and there is no sure way of showing any indirect way if there is or not.
The term "weak atheist" appears to be derogatory in relation to being a strong atheist, who appear to be those who have taken the step into believing that a Creator GOD does not exist, and expressing that belief into the community.
I think that perhaps some agnostics have a problem with accepting the term "weak" as it implies they are apathetic, indifferent, [stuff like that] and those ones at least are making efforts to examine the question and have not reached a point where they feel they can honestly make a choice either way.
I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.
[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]
When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it "because of" theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.
Which is to say, I did not choose to believe that there was no Creator-GOD simply on account of "theist behaviours" or "reading the bible" [some reasons given by some who have changed position from theist to atheist] but rather, I chose to examine the question in more detail, and today I am grateful for having made that choice.
One thing I have learned is that the real question to be asking is not the one which separates "atheist" from "theist" [demanding that an individual must either be one or the other re the question] as believing or not believing in the existence of a Creator [and in the case of believing that there is - defining that Creator] because this step is jumping the gun and is thus a mis-step or stumble.
So - from my position, I see both atheists and theists as having jumped the gun, and instead of working together [as people] on finding answers to the Real Question which we should be asking, they fight over the question of a Creator GOD.
It is from that position I remain firm that I am neither theist or atheist, or for that matter - even agnostic - because the question re the existence of a Creator isn't the one I have been asking and finding out answers to.
GM: Human beings can do it the hard way or the easy way, but either way, the job will get done.
Illusion
Something can't come from nothing - Page 14 - Debating Christianity and Religion
debatingchristianity.com
William: FTL;
What IS a great analogy of the universe mindfully unfolding is The Planet Earth - A living stone of complexity ... as one cannot explain away the complexity of biological life forms as the result of mindless acts of nature in which the complex movement of said life forms is due to "flat slippery surfaces and strong winds."
Mind therefore, can suitable be inserted as the simplest explanation of agency for movement and consequent complex shaping, which then can be more readily accepted as a likely agency for why the universe is unfolding as it is...into Galaxies and in relation to what is going on within said Galaxies.
I think that Mind is a great explanation for 'why' what goes on in this universe, on macro and on micro levels alike, as the explanation itself comes from the mind and so the mind should be able to recognize the connections therein, even through [appropriately] imagining it most likely.
As mysterious as the universe still is, the mind is just as mysterious...and therein is where imagination has its legitimate place - as long as imagination not being used inappropriately by claiming as certainty that it is a mind outside of the universe which caused the universe to unfold while ignoring or downplaying the idea that the universe itself has a mind and is its own agency of its own unfolding.
GM:"You Have An Invisible Friend
Expression Of Appreciation of Experience"
William: Expression Of Appreciation of Experience You Have An Invisible Friend = 686
[686]
What is time if you have already lived through multiple eternities?
"Be Nice Do Nice" Induce Species The Purpose Working with the simulation
GM: Down Your Way
Journey
Black Tuesday
Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.]
Nuclear
Steps
The Creation
We Can Do Magic! What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
The Supernatural and the Bible Delineating Quantum
An Exam [Virtual]
How is it 'logical' to assume 'magic' when magic is the very thing which proposes something coming from nothing?
Having To Learn a Whole Other Language
Ignoring...
International Skeptics Forum - View Single Post - [Split Thread] Randomly Generated Messages
Join the International Skeptics Forum to discuss and promote critical thinking across the planet.
www.internationalskeptics.com
William: FTL;
Atheist: Your “immediate thoughts” often don’t correlate to anything I was immediately thinking by reading the phrases. IOW, when I read the phrases, I don’t get the same chain of thought you elucidate.
William: No surprises there.
The point I have been making is that coherent messages are generated - because if they were not coherent, then you would not even be able to have any 'chain of thought' associated with what you are reading.
Re that - it is equally important that we are aware - not only of our thoughts in the moment, but also more intrinsically - we are aware of why we think the particular way that we do.
Said another way. "There was I was where I ought - examining my conscious thought." not just having a thought for the sake of having a thought.
GM: Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It
What can I say, except "Thank You"
Apologist explains how to get prayer answered. - Page 46 - Debating Christianity and Religion
debatingchristianity.com
William: FTL;
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #451]
JK: The gist of my argument lies in declaring a god would know what is objectively moral, and moreover, for human beings.
I can just the same declare he wouldn't, by virtue of not being human.
William: I understand your sentiments herein JK.
But my perspective Naturally forbids me from attempting to put an image onto something which is obviously invisible.
If GOD by [in relation to] nature, is invisible, this means the same to me as our minds being invisible to each other, except'n when we care to share our information.
As to morality - my understanding through study of Theism, is that there is something definitely going on which may not all be accounted for re the delusion theory.
The best we have to go by is Nature Herself, and therein, - as non-theists have argued well, we pick up our sense of morality by following the clues on how to survive and prosper in a wildly hostile environment.
[perhaps one day we will all learn to celebrate our collective morality.]
Put simple, the similarity stops there as two branch away from one, and fight like savages for supremacy.
Two mind-sets in opposition to each other, are accidents waiting to happen.
I do not know and cannot say
That Natural Neutral is the way
But I can say, that those who give it a shot seem to have the advantage.
On the question "Do we exist within a creation?" the answers simply have it for those who've decided already. Shooting at one another over the parapets, has real world consequences.
The answer my friend, is that we don't know right now so we all best shut up on making declaration either way, and pass the potatoes...
...GOD may be watching, and curious besides...best look like I am worthy of being tuned into...
GM: Is a Constant
Father Wound
Time And Space
Inclinations
Fling That Veil Aside
Vitriolic [filled with bitter criticism or malice.]
What things are unrelated
Relationship True Colors On all fronts
Navigational Aids
Attempting to overlay/superimpose one's belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real.
Congratulations on your finding a match to burn
"Dying
There is an art to flying or rather a knack..."
From the link
Exactly
More
As In...
Victim
What The Gods See
"The Power Of...
Yes, I Hear You"
WingMakers
Self-Immurement [literally "walling in") also called immuration or live entombment is a form of imprisonment, usually until death, in which a person is sealed within an enclosed space without exits.]