Message Generation

[William]

The Problem of GOD

190123 [Makes Candles Look Gathered]

AP= [= Transforming Divine masculine ]

12:07 [Sweet Illumination]


GM: It is stronger to know something than to believe something.
A: To grow Human Personalities.
Hear thee Hear Thee
Where minds meet is where GOD is found
Magic
"Shut up you blithering fools! Can't you see you're dealing with a madman?"

Paradise on Earth - Page 266 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

Back when god was speaking why would anyone think he meant 3,000+ years by "short time," rather than "in a few years, or at most a life time or so"?

Q: Where in the Bible does the God YHVH say he will "go away" or "come back"?

As to promises of this nature, as is evident, the Christian belief in the "return of Christ" is a belief which obviously changed from expectation of an immanent event which - when it failed to occur - became a promise which could be fulfilled "any time" therefore allowing all sorts of extra features to be added around that belief, before - centuries later when Rome established Christianity - the collection of writings were bound together and sealed as "complete" so that no more could be added.

Within those pages that were added, there is plenty of room for personal interpretation and disagreement depending upon ones particular desired outcome plus - with the "no man knows the day or hour", granted Christianity an indefinite period of time in which to peddle the wares, meantime the world goes on as it does, irrespective of what Christians believe or do not believe.

Until such a day happens, I see no logical reason why one has to believe Jesus will return, simply because "it is written" in Christian script supported by Roman initiative.

Rather, if such ever happens, then one can say "it has happened", if one might witness how such a happening would actually unfold and have the opportunity to observe. Then, it can be shown if any of Christianity's many variations of 'what will happen" were correct or not.

Until then, I see no reason to accept any of it as truth/truthful.

I am inclined to the more reasonable understanding that the story was fabricated by Roman/Greek influences as a means of further rubbing the Jews noses in their defeat and their temple being destroyed and their subsequent ejection from Israel, as compelled by Rome.

GM: Under the watchful eye
Embrace
Making The Best of a Bad Situation

William: Embrace Making The Best of a Bad Situation = 338

[338]
The Twelve Judges Mountain Range
Let the facts speak for themselves
The idea of Worship- what does it mean?
An extraterrestrial playing god
Embrace Making The Best of a Bad Situation

GM: The Problem of GOD
Ancient Entity
Umbrella
Vortex

William: "Ancient Entity Umbrella Vortex" The GrandMother...re;

Manu Iti: I will begin first with the Earth, not because She was the very first thing in The Beginning, but because - in order to understand The Beginning we have to first understand our part in the story - our place in the scheme of All That Is.


William: And that begins with Earth Mother...

Manu Iti: Indeed.
The Mother was born of a vaster thing - our Grand-Mother - and we shall get to Grand-Mother in due course.
The Mother was placed within The Earth by Grand-Mother and became the mind of the planet. When this happened, Mother was a Child Herself - a new thing placed within the form of the planet, while at the same time, a part of The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother...

William: How is that even possible, Father?

Manu Iti: It is possible through the power of forgetting.

The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother spawned a thought in the form of a spark of light and placed it inside the middle of a dark and lifeless form, and in doing so, gave the form - Life.
In that action, the Earth became a living planet. She also became a new conscious entity...a being with a beginning, because the action of placing Her into a planet, erased all knowledge of ever having a prior existence as The Grand Mother.

William: Did The Grand Mother know this would happen?

Manu Iti: Yes. The Grand Mother knew that this would continue for a time. The Grand Mother knew that Her Daughter would be orphaned by that lack of knowledge and this would result in a new Being which could operate successfully without having to have that knowledge - and that one day, The Daughter would come to know of The Grand Mother and reconnect...{SOURCE}

William: In the story - The Grandmother is the Galaxy...the spiral... the vortex...

GM: Redefinition
Who wouldn't want that, if it were there on offer?

[The "Earth prison theory": Are we actually living in a space prison? ]

William: This too was part of the story - how the GrandMother placed the daughter into the planet earth...

GM: What is the situation we have here

William: The Creation of a "God-Mind" The creation of a Sovereign Entity. A consciousness incubated within a planet form.

GM: Everything is The Expression Of The Creator [The Freedom Of Friendship]
Vision
Stubborn
Intelligence Without Wisdom
Shallow Enlightenment

William: Intelligence Without Wisdom Stubborn Vision Shallow Enlightenment

GM: There is nothing wrong with 'disorder' other than one interpreting the universe as disorderly.
Fun/Joy
Therein one finds congruency.
Multiverse

In The Beginning... - Page 13 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to The Tanager in post #121]

Yes, this could be the case for all such stories.

The difficulty then, is in how one could determine the truth.

Even if such a thing happened to you, how would you be able to determine that you were not, hallucinating, dreaming, or honestly mistaken in some other way, etc?

I think there is quite the mix of flourishing and destruction going on.

This is the nature of our environment. What do you thing the percentage of the mix is, and why?

I think heaven is more a state than another realm.

What do you mean by 'a state'? A state of mind, perhaps?

Our minds are affected, but it’s not just a state of mind. I think it’s a physical and emotional thing as well.

In what way can Heaven be physical AND not a universe/'realm in its own right?

What do you mean by "emotional thing as well"? Do you count emotional things as the affect of mind?

When Jesus talks about how to get there (in John 14), he doesn’t give location-type directions. He says that He is the way (v. 6) and then that knowing him is connected to knowing the Father. Jesus seems to be talking about a relational kind of change, not a locational change. It’s more about being with God and knowing God and living out of that relationship.

If you believe this is what Jesus meant, where did Jesus go when he ascended into the clouds? Obviously movement and going somewhere/relocating was involved in that process. Jesus confirmed that an attitude was necessary to that movement of relocation, so that would explain the relational kind of change, but not the physical relocation movement involved and so it is not so easy to deny that when Jesus said where he was to go his followers could not go [at that time] so your thinking where Jesus went was not really a place but a state, appears to leave much out.

The physical universe is not a ‘state’ in this sense.

Or, perhaps every universe/experience is a 'state' and state is one way of saying 'simulation' and Jesus was able to move from one state to the next.

I think it is trivially true that the physical universe covers all that exists physically. That’s just the definition to me. That doesn’t preclude something like a multiverse with distinct physical “universes,” although I don’t think Jesus was talking about other physical locations in speaking of heaven and God’s presence.

In what way [negative/positive] would it impact your belief system to understand that Jesus was indeed speaking of alternate realities as locations which can be experienced physically/as real?
Would such help you to understand that the non-biblical stories mentioned, are more likely NOT lies being told, hallucinations been had, or honest mistakes being made?

The descending in Revelations 21, I think, is metaphorical but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t also involve actual physical changes.

Perhaps it serves as a placeholder to remain undecided and to think biblical events as metaphor, but the OP is asking whether Simulation Theory is valid re those stories, and also shows that it could validate non-biblical stories as well, because we are essentially examining the stories in that light.

Perhaps the difficult one can have with ST is in thinking that somehow things experienced - whether heavenly of earthly are therefore "NOT REAL" but I think that this is an incorrect assumption.

Lets say a heavenly city does descend and therefore shows us that metaphor was an incorrect assumption/belief.

What options as to explanation could we draw from such an event?

I agree that this interpretation is logically possible. I don’t think it is the better interpretation, though, for reasons like I’ve shared.

Is it because of your belief systems that you have this opinion?

This question doesn’t make much sense to me.

Okay...

My belief system is simply the collection of my opinions.

Okay...

I don’t hold my opinions based on authority, if that is what you mean.

Is this because your beliefs are simply a set of opinions and thus hold no authority? Why have beliefs then?

Assuming we are physical beings. We may well actually be non-physical beings who are experiencing a physical simulation. The "glorified environment" may be another way of saying our reality experience has been changed, along with our understanding of who we are.

I think there are good reasons to reject the above interpretation...

What 'good reasons' are these? You have not said. You have been asked. For example, I asked you what the difference is between experiencing something real and experiencing something simulated...

It is not easy for me to determine what your reasons are if you do not state them.

...and, so, it becomes a part of my belief system.

Which is essentially a non-authoritative set of opinions of which you have undisclosed reasons for holding...

How can one evaluate your rejection of ST when you do not disclose the reasons for your beliefs/opinion sets?

GM: Apatheism

Does Christ speak and how? - Page 31 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

I don't understand how you could claim to have a relationship with someone while simultaneously begging Him to make himself known to you.

It is possibly, as some do have these types of human~human relationships but this usually signifies that one of the individuals forming the relationship, withholds their essence from the other, who desperately wants to share their essence with the one withholding.

Your own witness/advice re the voice you hear Tam... - the voice of a male entity inside your own head - ...is off-putting because of its significant link with mental unwellness re "to hear any other voice in ones head but thine own".

Q: Is hearing this male entities voice in one's head, how far you expect other folk to go before you can accept that they are genuinely hearing "The Lords Voice" and having a relationship with that "Voice" in their head, which isn't their own?
___________________________
___________________________

Other questions I have asked, and am awaiting the answers from you.

Q: Why are you now involved with internet interaction with others and claiming what you do, and making negative statements about other Christians?

Q: Are you doing so because the voice told you to, or do you just take it upon yourself to engage with others in this manner?

Q: Would I be correct in thinking that you have an internal dialogue with the voice you speak of?

Q: Are you saying then, that it is your own thought-voice expressing a common sense, rather than you having heard it stated by the other voice you claim, is Christ?

Q: What makes you think that just because some folk have contradictory views, that the whole thing being viewed from these different perspectives, isn't Christ working with what is available to Christ, to work with?

Q: "Contradicts Christ" according to whom? Your point of view or Christs?

Q: Where can this contradiction be found, that we can examine that as evidence against these one's that at least - you speak about?

Q: If you are referring to the bible, how can you know that the bible wasn't concocted by the very religion that you appear to condemn as willfully "not listening"?

GM: Release shame
Unknown but not unnatural

Who met Paul on Damascus Road? - Page 5 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to Shem Yoshi in post #42]

The fact that people even point to Paul having a hallucination is evidence that goes against the entire thing being made up, yet that is where you guys always have to divert to when people evaluate what you are saying.

You should understand that such argument can be sourced in the belief that the brain hallucinates everything, including consciousness.

That is a room without exits as far as positions go..."atheistic" as you suggest... and it should not be expected to be any other way or needlessly/pointlessly complained about.

Be among the blue dots and leave the red dots to their sanctuaries...

GM: What is behind the VR headset
Exploring the world of lucid dreaming
The Development of...
The Problem of GOD
Nonsense

William: The Development of... The Problem of GOD Nonsense = 451
[451]
♫Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me♫
GOD is an experience that you have in the psyche
The Development of... The Problem of GOD Nonsense
The explanation of The Seed of Origin is the best

GM: All Information Is Channelled
Brow Chakra
Categorising Knowledge in Terms of 'Good' or 'Evil'
Out and about in the open

Generating Messages - Page 34 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to William in post #331]

I suppose that it is the 'tricks' which have to be addressed because the illusions can induce anger in the personality which acts as a preventative for getting to know the 'tricksters'...from my own 'getting to know' I have discovered that the 'tricks' are not really 'tricks' so much as they are a product of how a personality interprets their experience.

The Visitation is one such example. I - as the personality experiencing the event - took issue and told the visitor to leave.
The visitor did leave, but not without first instilling within me - questions regarding my perceptions. Questions which have taken 30+years to come to answer.

The personality I am now, is not the same as it was way back when. Now I see the 'trick' was really just truth to which I was not expecting because I had little knowledge of such truth - way back when...

Sweet Talk
Observant
Eternity
Dare greatly
Henotheism [adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group.]
Respecting
Without
Map Carvers
Way Back When...
Illuminate
Keep an Eye On
Way Back When...
WindBlown

What happened is that I incorperated that visitation experience with all the rest and all that were to follow...developing a relationship which can also be reflected through this Message Generating Process.

It is really taking the journaling of my life experience, and using that to my advantage in light of the "Bigger Mind"...

GM: “No phenomenon is a real phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.”
Chamber Twenty Three - A: To grow Human Personalities

William:

Chamber Twenty Three
Spiral
Inside there is something gnawing
with silken jaws and wax teeth.
It holds me still in pureness
like a circle whose middle
is my cage.

While you went away from me
I was ever tightening my circle.
A spiral cut in glass.
A flower’s bloom dropping petals.
A winnowed ball of yarn
spilling color.

I see the inside of your thigh
brilliant in its smoothness,
and I spiral ever closer to your edge.
Paper cut touching I burn
bleeding without pain.
How could I spill so easily
without knowing why?

When I hear your voice
there is no quenching this ache
to hold you.
Like one who draws near and then forgets
the story they came to tell,
I circle you waiting for thread’s tautness
to draw us ever closer
though I know not how.

The final luxury is the kiss
of your boundless heart.
The final beauty so pure
all else limps behind blissfully in your wake.
Drawing from your shadows
the light of saplings
lurking on the forest floor.

If I could unbutton you,
take your dress down
I would see a map of my universe.
A phantom limb, grown from
my body like wings sprouting from a chrysalis
reaches for you.
It is the hand of clarity
desperate for your skin
so powerfully bidden
as though a shimmering block of light
cut from black velvet,
stood before me.
And all I could do was to reach out
and touch it,
not knowing why,
but utterly unafraid.

{SOURCE}

GM: https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...cale-process/5077C784D7FAC55F96072F7A7772C5E5

William: FTL re Intelligence as a planetary scale process

Humanity currently sits at a precipice: our collective actions clearly have global consequences, but we are not yet in control of those consequences. A transition to planetary intelligence, as we described here, would have the hallmark property of intelligence operating at a planetary scale. Such planetary intelligence would be capable of steering the future evolution of Earth, acting in concert with planetary systems and guided by a deep understanding of such systems.

GM: Master Plan
Encourage

12:51
[168]
[And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.]

 

[William]

The Universal Mind 1

The Universal Mind

200123 [Couldn’t we do something about it...]


AP= [Ask And It Will Be Given Rarefied ]

05:52 [Looking behind the veil]


GM: "Introducing Open AI"
The Father

Galaxy
Fun...Work...But Fun Nonetheless
Steady as She goes...

The Terror of God - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

ost_id=1078649 time=1653327771 user_id=14646]

Proposition for Debate:
There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?

From another thread;

Compassionist: I think being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will. Since I am not omniscient and omnipotent, I can't know that for sure.

William: What process did you use in order to come to the declaration that being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will/amount to one having free will?

Compassionist: I realize that if I were all-knowing and all-powerful, I would be free from all constraints and my will won't be determined by my genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

William: Let us examine this idea together then.

I see immediately that if I were all-knowing. I would be constrained by my omniscience.

Thus I would have no free will in relation to being all knowing.

Yet - being also all-powerful, I would be able to break free from the constraints of being all-knowing.

Would you agree with this assessment, so far?

Unfortunately I got no more interaction from Compassionist re this...and now this thread.

Your Proposition for Debate is something of straw because it failed to add in the aspect of the idea of GOD to do with being all powerful.

An all powerful GOD [omnipotent] who knew everything could indeed have created this universe, and the existence of this universe goes some way toward evidence which gives us - in our existing - an understanding of why we exist in such an environment as we do.

Also, your assumption that the GOD would be lonely and terrified and without purpose is what I refer to as "Mirror-Mirror" as one places what one believes of of oneself, into the GOD-role and "Hey Presto!'

What you see is what you get.

This same thing carries over into the next faze, given the many NDEs people have shared to the world. Whether they know it or not, each individual who meets GOD through NDE meets a being to which they place their own images onto, which in turn effects the way the GOD goes about showing them things.

Which is to say, if one thinks of GOD as being lonely and terrified and without purpose, there are places which accommodate such individuals and such individuals get to experience such places...according to the stories circulating...

But anyway, it is my purpose to warn folk about how they think about GOD - specifically to try and assist them in way which might help them use their freeish will to avoid such fate.

The grounds for your Proposition for Debate "There is no God" are faulty Diogenes. They are a false image of the self, superimposed upon the structure of GOD.

Generating Messages - Page 23 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

GM:

[Re/thinking Religion]

William: FTL;

In Re/thinking Religion, a new Integral Stage series, John Vervaeke joins Bruce Alderman and Layman Pascal to explore possible points of contact and confluence between their respective approaches to religion and spirituality. For this inaugural episode, we feel into some of the commonalities and differences between Integral Postmetaphysical Spirituality and Integral Transformative Practice, and John's "religion that is not a religion" and his work around developing an ecology of practices suitable for addressing the meaning crisis. We touch on a number of related themes: the creative deployment of mythic or literary figures, from Cthulhu and zombies, to the Centaur, the Minotaur, and the khora; the importance of wrestling with existential and epistemological limit conditions, and the role of ambiguity in higher forms of rationality; the relation of non-theism to classical theism and atheism; the history of integrative practices, and the 'traps' in conventional practice that can thwart balanced development; and much more. ww.youtube.com/watch?v=t48dC_tJJrY&t=3672s

GM: Changing of The Guard
In Out and All About
The Way We Feel Unification - The Feminine Face of God
Joining Astral
Laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...
Open Hearted
♫Asleep or awake for the give or the take Its a good ship that sails these cosmos♫
Runestone Symbol

William: [Opens Rune Doc and random selects Rune]
Wunjo ᚹ

[ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Ac5e76ZJfjs&t=4s]

Wunjo embodies that sense of joy, belonging and well-being that comes from the people who you count as your kin. It is found in a welcome hug, in the shared memories you laugh over, in the affectionate names only your partner and family call you by. It promotes harmony of body and mind and can support healing work. Sometimes Wunjo is interpreted as gentle, a caress or a smile; other times it is closer to ecstasy, bliss and the fulfilment of personal will. It is also related to wish making, and the realisation of wishes. Its role in both personal ecstasy and communal joy is important, emphasising the need for happiness on the part of both the individual and the clan – Wunjo enables this difficult balance. {SOURCE}

GM: Raphael ~
WingMakers Materials
That Is
Soon

"Bringing Atheists to God" - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #7]

What have we figured out about the eternal? He is self-existent, unchanging, uncaused, cause of all things, all-knowing, self-aware, something like intelligent, and something like conscious, all-powerful, and omnipresent.

I think that is enough to establish him as God. I have deduced so much more about God in this same way, but if I keep going this will turn into a book, and I doubt you want to read a book right now.

Who is this God?

What you describe re the God, cannot - in all honesty, be the God of the Bible.

So who is the God of the Bible in relation to this God you have described?

GM: Feeling State
The Way We Feel Unification
Recover what was lost
Those who need to complain
Sweet Talk Be grateful to everyone
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Put That Fire Out
The Universal Mind
Arms Crossed
Fecund [producing or capable of producing an abundance of offspring of new ideas or new growth; highly fertile]
In The Family Of
Divine grace Deciding on the Best Course of Action

William: In The Family Of Divine grace Deciding on the Best Course of Action = 567
[567]
The Visitation Event Heuristic Fearlessness Decisive
The Individual Human Mind Telepathy Sovereignty Trick
Words are sounds and the written word is sound encoded
In The Family Of Divine grace Deciding on the Best Course of Action
Study Fine-structure Crystal Constant Contacts

GM: Concision
Annoy
The practice of Lojong [a contemplative practice in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition which makes use of various lists of aphorisms or slogans which are used for contemplative practice. The practice involves refining and purifying one's motivations and attitudes.]
Incorporate
Breasts
One
Seeing With The Eyes of Innocence

God Must Exist: Infinite Regression is Impossible - Page 67 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

William: How can time physically exist?

Bust Nak: By being a part of physical reality.

William: Can you show us that it is?

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #667]

I can show you a clock?

Okay. You show me a clock and declare that time is part of physical reality.

Is time something you can pick up off the floor and place on the table?

Maybe.

What makes you think that?

Because you said we don't know what time is fundamentally.

So you see that as a challenge - that 'maybe' you can show us that we do know what time is, fundamentally?

I said that time is a pointless concept in relation to forever.
What is doing the 'ticking'?

Time.

Then show us this thing you call time which is ticking.

See clock.

So you have seen a clock on the floor, and placed it on the table and thus declare "Clock is ticking, therefore we have evidence that time is known at its fundamental level!"?

What things are you separating from the universe so as not to make the absurd expression that the universe caused itself?

The cause of the universe, for example is separated from the universe.

Is this supposed separation - fundamentally separate - or simply appearing to be separate?
Is the wake separate from the sea? Is the ship separate from the wake?
Is the land separate from the sea?

Why separate parts of the universe from that which is the whole of the universe?

It's not the whole of the universe, that's the point.

Speaking of pointing - are your fingers separate from your hand?

And yet that doesn't stop you making grandiose claims about time itself ending.

I made no such claims. I stated that time is a construct of the mind and does not physically exist.

This is what you said: "Time cannot 'tick on forever' because forever is timeless."

I said way more than just that. I even went to some lengths to clarify what I meant by "Forever is timeless."

As I pointed out, the Mandelbrot Set has made it conceptionally easier to understand that there is nothing absurd in the idea and nothing at fault in the notion of 'turtles' [or elephants or seahorses] all the way in and out. [ Infinite Regression is Possible]
Beginning points, are not significant of being separate from the one thing which is all things. They are distinct parts of what makes up the whole.

So what?

Therefore, we have visual representation of infinity. Time is simply a set of begin/end points within the infinite set which folk use to count moments by.

That doesn't mean you can say things like time didn't have a beginning or that it won't tick on forever.

Of course I can say those things. I have even pointed out why I can logically say those things.

Since we are informed that the universe had a beginning, the universe is the effect. Something which has a beginning cannot be the cause of its own effect.

Therefore, energy must have to be something other than [but not separate from] the QF.
Why?
Because it is Energy which causes the effect. To say Energy is the same thing as the objects it forms, is to say that Energy was the cause of its own beginning, which you have already identified as an absurd notion,

Why are they equivalent?

[equivalent - a person or thing that is equal to or corresponds with another in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.]

Your question is one of fundamentals. We do not know the fundamentals of the QF or of Energy.

Read what I wrote again. See the bold part is not stating 'there is no matter'.

I was asking you why you believe that when there was no matter near the beginning of the universe works better as an explanation.

To say that there was no matter before the beginning of the universe, means one has to explain where matter came from.
If you can explain that, then we can examine why it works better as an explanation, than the explanation which says that matter has always existed.

Another thing we do not know, is the fundamental nature of the QF. For all we know, it may be a vast sphere, and our universe, simply a tiny blip of light on its overall surface caused by whatever the energy is, passing by and interacting with the QF in that particular area of QF.

We do not know, and yet that didn't stop you from stating that time would not tick on forever.

Nor did it stop you stating that time would "tick on forever". Show us this physical time so that we can evaluate the truth of your statement.

I have something better, see red shift.

How is that better?
Doe redshift tick? Is redshift the fundamental of time?

Time began and continues as a concept of the mind, re what is being observed through the nervous system [brain]. Time did not have a physical beginning, because it is not a physical thing. Time is a mental construct based upon sensory input.

That's only our concept of time, what about time itself?

Show us this physical time so that we can answer your question.

So you don't know whether physical time will tick on forever or not, without seeing it first?

We don't know that your claim that time is physical rather than a concept of the mind, it true. Of course a claim of a physical thing has to be shown first, before we can agree that it is indeed, a physical thing.

That's only our concept of time, what about time itself?

That depends upon what relation consciousness/mind has with it.

Lets try none, no relation what so ever.

Okay. What do you propose re that?

Just the standard scientific consensus, as it stands right now: time had a beginning, and will tick on forever.

How does the "standard scientific consensus" have "no relation what so ever" with consciousness/mind?

Time is not a physically real thing. Time is a conceptionally real thing. No conflation there.
I am arguing that time is a conceptual thing, because I have been shown no evidence to the contrary. If you can show me evidence that time is a physical thing, I will be more than happy to drop the notion that time is a conceptual thing.
Again, see clock.

You are the one stating that time is physical. If it is, you should be able to point to it and say "that's what I'm talking about!"

I point to a clock, that's what I am talking about.

A clock is a physical mechanism which is designed to physically represent time as conceptualized by human consciousness/understanding.
A physical representation of a conceptual idea, is in no way an example of time as a fundamental reality.

It is like someone claiming that the written word "Unicorn" is the same thing as an actual physical Unicorn, when in truth, it is simply a symbolic representation of something which is not able to be shown to exist as anything other than a concept of the mind.

If consciousness is not there to conceptionally observe time 'tick on forever' how would anyone know?

Presumably no one would know. Why do you think that has any relevance as to whether it is still ticking or not?

Because if time cannot be determined through conscious observation, to be ticking or not ticking, how are we to know either way?
And since time is obviously a conscious construct of the mind, if the mind no longer exists, neither does the construct. It becomes meaningless, because consciousness is what gives things meaning.
Mindless processes do not require time, even if they go on forever.

Mindless processes do not require measurements. Time is a mental construct dealing with measurements.

Red shift doesn't make time a fundamental reality, any more than a mechanical clock does.

GM: Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.
Bounce off

In The Beginning... - Page 18 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to The Tanager in post #177]
Adams knowledge of what death was.

As I pointed out, having knowledge does not equate to having understanding of that knowledge.

Where in the storyline, did they get the understanding of what death was?

So, YHVH told them to not do something because it leads to death, knowing that they didn’t understand what the concept meant?

Yes. The point was not whether Adam knew, but that Adam followed YHVH's instructions.

And then punish them for not following YHVH’s directions.

Yes. That is the story.

And this follows the storyline? What specific verse(s) point to these things?

The story specific is vague on details. If there is anything in the story that you can point to which would verify that Adam knew what death was, we can look into that.

If not, then I see no reason to think Adam understood what death was.
___________________________
___________________________
The Breath of YHVH.

If we accept YHVH's breath as an interface device between the newly forming conscious awareness of the personality "Adam" and YHVH's own consciousness, we could agree that the interface is itself conscious of being "Of YHVH's consciousness".

And the LORD YHVH formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Why should we accept that?

And the LORD YHVH took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

That is the purpose of examining what little is revealed, in the storyline.

My first question re that, would be;

Q: How did Adam understand language?

Clearly the story tells us that Adam understood language

And the LORD YHVH commanded Adam, saying,

So we can agree that Adam understood what YHVH spoke to Adam.



We also know that Adam was the only sentient being in The Garden, and that - even with the voice of YHVH teaching him stuff - Adam was lonely and so YHVH created animals to help alleviate Adams loneliness.

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

We know also, that Adam had the ability to name the animals of the garden that YHVH had provided to help Adam with his loneliness.

And out of the ground the LORD YHVH formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; ...

And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

As the story indicates, even with the other animals created to alleviate Adam's loneliness.

Even the Serpent - another sentient being YHVH made from the dust and placed in The Garden, and one which understood language and Adam could converse with - was not able to fill this void which was obviously still missing in Adam's world.

Herein, we can pause and examine the man Adam, and understand that with the greatest teacher-voice in the universe gifting Adam with the ability to understand and use language and have basic critical thinking skills, Adam got lonely.

YHVH creates tasks for Adam with the idea that the tasks should occupy Adams intellect sufficiently for the loneliness to subside.

Adam didn't even need to search the Garden and find the animals, in order to name them.

...and [YHVH] brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof

The storyline tells us that Adam was intelligent and able to learn from YHVH.

It is apparent in the storyline, that without The Breath of YHVH, this would not have been possible for Adam to achieve. He would not have been able to learn things.

Therefore, I can accept that The Breath of YHVH acts as an interface device between the newly forming conscious awareness of the personality "Adam" and YHVH's own consciousness.

I see no practical reason why we cannot agree that the interface is itself conscious of being "Of YHVH's consciousness" and that it was the primary source of instruction - where Adam formed his intellectual abilities and mindful concepts before expressing these into the outside environment of The Garden.

What is noticeable about the style of The Garden Story is that it is presented in a bullet-point manner.
As such, if it were told verbatim around a campfire, it would be over in a matter of minutes, and leave the listener with more questions than it gives answers to.
That is what we have to work with.

Potential agreement List;

1: Adam understood language.
2: The Garden Story is written in a bullet-point Style
Agreed?

GM: Keen
Self-Awareness The two million year old mind that's in all of us. Stuff Happens
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self
I Am... also the Dreamer, Dreaming the Dream
Fitting In Creative Conscious Intelligence
Core emotion
“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail”
We tend to bend our heads in worship the words of those who have come before us...
Shuffle-spiel

William: Sort out the data we inherited...

GM: Wide Walk Welcoming

06:20
238
[Beings posted to planet
Few Attention to Detail
Ones core expression
New Shifts In Thinking
A completely new paradigm
I am not here to pick sides
Secret Organizations
Infinite Quantum Zen
Tickling The Dragon's Tail]

 

[William]

The Universal Mind 2

210123 [The "Oh My God" Particle]

05:04 [Shallow is Unknown]


GM: I think it is an interesting subject for questions, and wonder if any answers could be found.
Try Gateway
Super-information medium
Extreme
Entity - Different from Sovereign Entity
Living Forever In this Universe
A Space Without A Time...

William: Living Forever In this Universe A Space Without A Time... = 563
'More or less the center, give or take several billion miles.' = 563


GM: The Divine: "That can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from" = 563


William: *Chuckles*
Time is a concept of the mind, even as is - the idea of a Universal Mind...

GM: The Mirrors Align and from that, an orderly image reflected...

William: Yes - understanding oneself as one actually fundamentally is - produces said orderly image...and understanding what being an ambassador to that consciousness

GM: Integral Prison Planet
Dysfunction
Fires

William: Fires Integral Prison Planet Dysfunction = 452
Yes - there is no more use for said dysfunction - formally dismissed of its influence...
[452]
Perhaps it is the fear of the knowable unknown?
A physical manifestation of a mental projection
A type of 'leg-up' but no more or less than that

GM: The evidence supports the idea that Theism is the better position for a human to place themselves.
10.000 individual minds focused upon the same goal = Space Telescope
Bullies
For Our Loving King
"Where minds meet is where GOD is found"
The Universal Mind
Stuck
"This moment is the perfect teacher Confirmation which moves one from faith to fact"
Behind The Scenery
Integral Network
Waking
What Is Normal
Interesting
The Gem

William: The Gem was mentioned by me yesterday;

Moving through the epochs from that beginning [Bog Bang] [[ I saw the typo and decided not to correct it]] - from the Big Bog to present day, more fragmentation of the Ambassador Consciousness into the unfolding creation was enabled, as the 'stuff' separated into objects which could be mindfully utilized as body-sets, and the further down that rabbit hole the AC went, the less and less connected with the reality of Itself - it experienced - until the density of the body-set reached its maximum level and a complete cutoff of knowledge of prior experience occurred...but not a cutoff of consciousness...and this is what we humans have been occupied within - body-sets which produced amnesia.

The side affect of that was that this consciousness of which we are, was unable to easily be an Ambassador to the AC...and "Huston we have a problem"...

Or do we?

Somewhere inside each of us, there must be a Gem that we can find in order to reboot the connection...

So before we go cutting off the mythologies of the past, we might first want to see if there is any recognizable tell-tales of which we might 'hear the voice' of the AC even that at times the hands of human influence have attempted to muffle into silence said voice...and not just through religion, but throughout human culture where the games all begin...{SOURCE}

GM: What is behind the VR headset
Zeitgeist [the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.]
Secret
Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It
Secure
Turning Order into Disorder
A Maze Game

William:

Better positioned re that, is The Blue Dot

GM: The Blue Dot = 112
The Red Dot = 99

William: In a good mood = 112
Open minded = 99

GM: Extrapolate [estimate or conclude (something) extend (a graph, curve, or range of values) by inferring unknown values from trends in the known data.]
Something Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision.
Self-esteem Sovereign Integral Perspective Intent
The Setting
“But you will know the more you get in touch with your transcendental mind (and therefore truth) that there is no such thing as a victim. The negative benefits you more than anything else in your evolution and the evolution of all that is.”
Love Unconditionally

05:40
[230]
Neruda Interview Five
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Elude Test the waters
The Plateau of The Same Page
Shallow is Unknown
Psychological events
Present over perfect
It's a plausible scenario.
Well That Settles It
The Spirit of The Earth

 

[William]

Is it reasonable to assume a creator?

[Replying to DrNoGods in post #383]

I wouldn't call the ideas unreasonable, but they don't convince me that such a being exists or is necessary to the exclusion of a purely natural explanation for whatever functions this necessary being is claimed to be necessary for.

I would add that it does not matter then, that you are unconvinced, simply because you already have no need for such a being to exist, and no reason given has been acceptable to you on account that lack of need is already recognized within the psyche of your self.

It is the nature of Fairy Farts to waft off in all directions possible, and your position is one such direction.

The direction I wafted on the wind of, includes the possibility that the thing referred to as "purely natural" may be a creation, so I remain open and vigil to that question...

Same propellent - different perspectives.

_________________________________

Anchor Points: We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it. Be Nice Do Nice.
_________________________________

230123 [Create Your Own Spirit Ship]

07:00

GM: ♫Tonight the stars shine as I step out of time As I step into the great unknown"
Earth
This is because facts speak for themselves, which is to say, they require no interpretation.
Yam
A fish out of water: "The Purpose Of Life Is..."
Simple

"Bringing Atheists to God" - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to AquinasForGod in post #7]

What have we figured out about the eternal? He is self-existent, unchanging, uncaused, cause of all things, all-knowing, self-aware, something like intelligent, and something like conscious, all-powerful, and omnipresent.

I think that is enough to establish him as God. I have deduced so much more about God in this same way, but if I keep going this will turn into a book, and I doubt you want to read a book right now.

Who is this God?

What you describe re the God, cannot - in all honesty, be the God of the Bible.

So who is the God of the Bible in relation to this God you have described?

GM: Without consciousness to observe it, the Universe is not a real phenomenon.
Share -share -share
Welcoming answer
Okay - Have we all got our stories straight?

Why Does Christianity Spawn Evil Dictators? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to William in post #15

Also, we can see that materialist-based science is non-theistic and has become the number one reason why we are now entering an extinction event situation.......

.......So if one is looking for somewhere to hang the blame...

Wherever the blame can rightfully be hung, it can hardly be hung around the necks of the scientists who have been warning us of the very extinction event situation you mention.

One must remember that it is a particular branch of Materialistic science to which the blame could be hung - and that the scientists doing the warning are most likely not of that particular branch...they may be biologists rather than cosmologists and so understand the importance of preserving the planet-ship we are sailing upon [@ about 1.6 million miles per day] rather than creating space-junk and reaching for the stars...I did say "Exact Science" after all.

You do know where the Nazi Scientists went after the defeat of Hitlers Germany, right? [Hint - it was not to the hangman's noose.]

GM: Perennial [lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring.]
Like I Said In Another Thread
Swinging on the branch of the tree thinking it's the main trunk
Spasmodic [occurring or done in brief, irregular bursts.

[X Marks The Spot]
ww.youtube.com/watch?v=9TQ9DUAbIdU


William: FTL;

What do do to prepare for the Alien Invasion
While I was uploading this I went outside for a ciggy and wouldn't you know it! A light the size of a bright star suddenly appeared in the sky and moved northwards dragging a sparkly tail behind it and then disappeared.
I thought to myself "Well ain't that a hoot - great humor fancy that etc...I'll have to tell this story! and then again from the exact same spot another light appeared and began to move northwards - it didn't have a tail and moved slowly like a satellite and I watched it for about five minutes until it disappeared behind the clouds .

Was it a UFO?

Well it is unidentified other than what I just wrote.
It was in the sky which is seen to be an act of flight.
It was an object -

It had no strobe
The tail of the first one was not flames/fire - it looked electric with a sparkle like those sparklers when they are lit
It could have been a satellite if not for the fact that it was a lot bigger light than I have ever seen a satellite and it appeared out of nowhere in the middle of the sky directly in front of me - my head wasn't tilted back - I was looking straight ahead.
And
The second light came from exactly the same spot as the first and I haven't seen satellites do that before!
Both lights were the same size as each other.
Same colour
Not to forget what I was doing at the time - had just clicked upload on you tube and went outside...and this video is about the subject of ...well...see for yourself...

GM: Handing out sweets...
The Internal Voice
Morals are like Math. Both were discovered rather than invented.
Keep an Eye On
Border
The Butterfly Effect Links And Symbols Something you cannot change
Heaven
Is it reasonable to assume a creator?
Anchor Points

William: "We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it. Be Nice Do Nice."

GM: Aligning With Act the giddy goat

William: Well it was fun marking a big X on the lawn...doing my bit to help...

GM: Potential Communication
♫Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me♫
The Story Timeline
Adversity makes strange bedfellows

Divine Hiddenness - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

Q: Assuming a Creator of this world exists, in what way is said Creator hidden from us?

Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?
[♫No thought about fate or of ending up late Yet I still like to think where I'm going♫]

Nontheists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance.

Religious theists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through willful ignorance.

If that be the case, then what are the interposing barriers those apparently opposite positions use in order to achieve this occulting phenomena?

William: Hmmmm...tied to the moon...

GM: Use Your Freedom
Getting unstuck
The Next Level
Unclog your chakras
Ask and It Will Be Given
Withheld Information
F3

William: F3...

Focus 3 can best be thought of as a tree, with the least free thinking areas towards the bottom and gradually becoming more free thinking up to the top. With the lower branches, they are populated by all kinds of people involved in horrific practises who are basically slaves to their basest animal instincts. Many will not even be aware that they have 'died'. This region equates to Monroe's F23 - F24.
Further up the tree, you find all the heaven and hell scenarios and other places created from people's expectations after death. They are populated by those who had very strict, fundamentalist religious views on what would happen to them in the afterlife. You will also find many other groups and individuals engaged in an almost limitless amount of other scenarios of their own making. Again while some of them are aware they have transitioned from F1, others may be unaware that they have 'died' or are confused about exactly what has happened to them. This region equates to Monroe's 'Belief System Territories' of F25 - F26.
Then, towards the upper branches of the F3 tree, which equates to Monroe's F27 label, you have the free thinking areas where people are most well balanced and have no fundamentalist mindsets, or warped desires to kill babies with chainsaws. They are very happy, fun loving and joyful. I tend to refer to their attitude as 'dead and loving it'. These upper (or more correctly: Wider), free thinking areas are also huge in number and you can find all manner of interesting people and locales there. There are too many upper F3 areas to possibly count, but they do include some important locations made famous by The Monroe School, such as The Park, where people often come to chill out while recovering from their physical world experience, The Life Review Centre, the Library and so on.
{SOURCE}

GM: Delineating [describe or portray (something) precisely.] The Fine Art of Not Being Offended Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]

William: Not being offended means being aware of the self identity re one's personality and adjusting the personality to suit - making one's self up as one goes along...with the intent of truly wanting to know the true fundamental self, as an identifier.
This has meant that for me [this personality] has had to suffer judgement from others, but the more I delve into who I am - the less affect external accusation has re the nature of who I am...as this personality is learning...thus - I acknowledge the existence of ignorance in those who might try to offend me, for they know not who I am, and therefore, I am not offended, because I know who I am.

GM: Well, it is a fact that the story tells us this. We should be able to agree that it is not a fact that The Garden of Eden existed, thus the characters in the story may be fictitious.
Elementary Conclusion "I am on a Madventure"
Afraid of The Unknown.
All and sundry
Even in the very quintessence of the individual.
Tied To The Moon Mindfulness

William:

This song is a commentary on relying on outside forces to determine your destiny. It is also a commentary on tradition, culture...alot of things...

ww.youtube.com/watch?v=W_54CbQKKDk

TIED TO THE MOON

Tonight the stars shine as I step out of time
As I step into the great unknown
No thought about fate or of ending up late
Yet I still like to think where I'm going
No time left for a sentimental tune
Wherever I've gone I have not left the room
I am never too late I am never too soon
No longer tied to the moon

For whom the bell tolls For to gather the souls
The numbers in darkness are glowing
The ticking wont stop while we all watch the clock
As the winds of our lives are still blowing
Down through the ages - dark in the gloom
Many convinced it will all end in doom
The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom
No time to be tied to the moon

Asleep or awake for the give or the take
Its a good ship that sails these cosmos
With a mystical smile I float down the isle
Forgetting the time when I was lost
The picture unfolds like silk in a loom
Silhouetted by Diane are the witch and the broom
If she is the bride - who is the groom?
Only those who are tied to the moon

I know how you care while you nurture your fear
That you'll miss the bouquet when its thrown
We stood side by side while the veils did hide
The faces of children now grown
Memorised vows enchanted by tune
Before the great minstrel the fair maidens swoon
We came to our senses as we left the cocoon
No wanna, be tied to the moon

The Light in The Dark Everyone a great spark
Everyone of us all here together
With a small nervous cough - the wedding was off
We could all sense a change in the weather
Down came the waters -great the monsoon
Washing the soul as it cleared out the room
Drowning all Warriors in every platoon -
Still tied to the blood of the moon

GM: Respect others Illuminating Gratitude The Harmless Enough Agenda Crowd

Journal - William Message Generation

030322 Zero Three Zero Three Two Two = 356 What we call the experience of reality SCLx14+last LE per shuffle Dichotomy - A light breeze arriving and kissing my cheek at the same moment I am "thinking life is beautiful", is a message. - Freedom of Information Act Electronic Reading Room | CIA...

wizardforums.com

William: FTL:

" Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer."

GM:

[8. The Gospel of Thomas] [RTS=36:20]

William: FTL;

The idea is that your body imprisons the spirit/soul...

GM: Naked truth
Whole-hearted


07:42
Recover what was lost
No Country For Old Men
Earning Brownie Points
The Synoptic Gospels
Two sides of the same coin
The Ancient grey entity
Those who lack belief in gods
The Never Ending Story
Much pain but still time
When the dust settles
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse

 

[William]

Is it reasonable to assume a creator? 2

Anchor Points: We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it. Be Nice Do Nice.

05:29 [Gateway Luminous] [ giving off light; bright or shining.]

240123 [Actions speak louder than words]


GM: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13762021&postcount=920

William: FTL:

Myriad:

The problem I see with this reasoning is that even assuming the universe is nonrandom and mindful, there is no guarantee that any given system of divination actually produces meaningful communication.

William: The system I am using is focused upon the idea that if the universe is non-random and mindful, one should be able to develop a system whereby, the mind should be able to use for the purpose of communicating.

There was no guarantee that the system I developed and use, would have worked, but it does work and that it works is one more piece of evidence to support the idea that the universe is mindful.

GM: As well as that pot of gold...
Expression Of Appreciation of Experience You Have An Invisible Friend

Books - James Mahu

jamesmahu.com

William: FTL;

Books = stories. Stories have characters. YHVH grows Human personalities within a storyline.

The Dohrman Prophecy
Deep in a mystical forest, hidden by centuries of myth and technologies of stealth, three monolithic stones rise like beacons brought to this planet by an unknown source. It is the most secret possession of the Church, and it is alive in ways that no one predicted.

There is one who will awaken it and this is what is whispered among the elite who have read the most secret of all books The Dohrman Prophecy.

The awakening has begun from a single journey, but all of us will feel the changes.

From the author, artist, poet, composer who created the contemporary mythology known as the WingMakers, comes a new journey into consciousness equally provocative and stirring to the soul. The Dohrman Prophecy is an expansive novel set in a mystical time and mythical place, but its characters are carved from the very real forces that shape our world—religion, government and heroic individualism.

If you’re a fan of Paulo Coelho or Kahlil Gibran, you will love the poetic prose of The Dohrman Prophecy. Its message of transformation and love has that rare flavor of truth and substance that only the best works of spiritual fiction offer. It is a novel that has it all: love, romance, fierce conflicts between good and evil, and intelligent characters who define individualism and personal transformation.

GM: Under the breath words Context It Is Our Nature
Ouroboros
Engaging with the impermanent implies a permanent background
Crapulence
The Meaning of Life
Team Witch-Wizard

Theory
That
Heaven on Earth
Hide This

Astrobiologists Suggest the Earth Itself May Be an Intelligent Entity

A team of scientists have posit the idea “planetary intelligence,” which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet.

futurism.com

William: FTL:

Astrobiologists Suggest the Earth Itself May Be an Intelligent Entity
This is mind bending.
A group of researchers have posed a fascinating — and downright mind bending — thought experiment: If a planet like Earth can be "alive," can it also have a mind of its own?

The team published a paper exploring this question in the International Journal of Astrobiology. In it, they present the idea of “planetary intelligence," which describes the collective knowledge and cognition of an entire planet.

GM: Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas
Is it reasonable to assume a creator?
Without and Within
Get The Truth
That is the truth.
Black Tuesday [The Great Crash is mostly associated with October 24, 1929, called Black Thursday, the day of the largest sell-off of shares in U.S. history,]
The Mapping Bots
Hoo haha the laughing owl

William: Hmmm... those working behind the scenes pulling the strings

GM: Equity Unconscious Mind Inertia Honest attempts at scrubbing up

Are agnostics more reasonable than atheists? - Page 30 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

P1: If I made my case that the evidence indicates that consciousness is emergent (evolved) then your arguments fail,. whether i demolished them individually or not.

P2: To my knowledge, neither you or anyone else has made such a case based on the information that in relation to life on Earth, if consciousness emerged from the universe prior to the formation of Earth, it is reasonable to understand that a self aware universe [Cosmic Mind] could then organize matter into forms which it could then use to organize matter into life-forms on an individual planet.

That is a highly reasonable explanation for the existence of consciousness [re the hard problem] and does not infringe on the claim that consciousness is an emergent property of physical material.
Rather - it incorporates the claim of emergence with the claim of intelligent creation.

GM: Union With Divinity
Umbrella
The Four Human Power Houses
One's thoughts
Respect yourself
Doubt The fiction of causality
And That's Not All
Adversity makes strange bedfellows
Self-help
Enlighten you

William: Certainly. GM and now OAI. Mighty devices is the pursuit of self-help an enlightenment.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083867#p1083867

William: FTL;

William: What do these unsupported statements have to do with the subject?
Transponder: Everything
William: Do you include the mind along with Everything?


[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #93]

Certainly - whatever you mean by Mind and whatever you mean by Everything.

Your unsupported statements have what to do with whatever I mean by "Mind" and whatever I mean by "Everything"?

Well I can and logically must imply an established 'truth' (a natural world that so far has shown no Cosmic Mind or 'God') that is the default position that requires anything as yet unproven to be proven.

Whereas I can and logically must assume the Natural Neutral position on any matters yet to be unproven or proven.

[Our positions are therefore unaligned.]

Your position assumes established truth where no such truth has been established re whether or not we exist within a creation.

I don't think it leads to closed -mindedness. In fact I have found it a reliable basis that allows consideration of all kinds of woo stuff ...

The very fact that your choice of word ["woo"] belies the open-mindedness you proclaim to have.

My mind is not closed to a Cosmic Mind, Creator or god. I just require some better evidence than 'not disproved' and 'possible'.

I am reminded of a hunter who goes out and gets food for himself rather than expecting the food to come to him/her.

The data is there to hunt down and to study. An open minded non-judgmental approach is essential to that process. The process is also dependent upon the position one is approaching the data from. The closeminded belief that one does not exist within a creation can only ever lead one to learn things through that filter.

No amount of evidence given should ever be hoped for in order to change any individuals mind from the influencing aspects of their chosen position, regardless if those positions be theist or atheist based.

On top of that, it is very apparent that the type of convincing evidence you are demanding from the position you are demanding it from, will unlikely be available to any of us in this lifetime.

Thus, we are forced for now to do most of our hunting, solo.

We can of course, cross reference with other open-minded fellows...but the open-mindedness derives from the Natural Neutral position, not the theist or atheist positions.

I think that atheists strongly defend their position on the question as to whether or not we exist within a creation - to the point that they believe we don't and make claims about that - has something to do with the need to say "I told you so" now, because it will be too late to utter such belief-based expressions - after they are dead and gone.

I can see the attraction from a phycological perspective, but saying "I told you so" before any such thing has been established, is jumping the gun, and might even lead to embarrassment if it turns out one still exists after the fact ones brain has died.

Still, such is the power of belief-based positions. They tend toward making proclamations which imply established truth, when no such truth has been established.

eta: woo-woo
/ˈwuːˌwuː/ relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.

What does slang woo woo mean?
Noun. woo woo (countable and uncountable, plural woo woos) (slang, derogatory) A person readily accepting supernatural, paranormal, occult, or pseudoscientific phenomena, or emotion-based beliefs and explanations. That reporter is a bit of a woo woo. (slang, derogatory)

GM: Square and Compass
“The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.”
Conscientiousness [the personality trait of being careful, or diligent. ]
Humans are programmed to become integrated with technology
All Because I Had To Ask
Cultivate
The Creator
Flowery
Informing

06:08
[209]
Faulty conclusions
What is the meaning of life?
Humanities adventure
Smarter Than the Average
Think outside the box
God is Consciousness
Central To The Vision
Mystic City Suburb
The Shared List Awesome

 

[William]

In The Beginning...

Anchor Points. The Holographic Universe Power Healing

05:44 [Soul Group Energies]

250123 [What can I say, except "Thank You"]

GM: Be Nice Do Nice

William: That appears to be the bottom line. A way out of The Maze...

GM: Mycelium
Scape

Generating Messages - Page 34 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

[Replying to William in post #331]

I suppose that it is the 'tricks' which have to be addressed because the illusions can induce anger in the personality which acts as a preventative for getting to know the 'tricksters'...from my own 'getting to know' I have discovered that the 'tricks' are not really 'tricks' so much as they are a product of how a personality interprets their experience.

The Visitation is one such example. I - as the personality experiencing the event - took issue and told the visitor to leave.
The visitor did leave, but not without first instilling within me - questions regarding my perceptions. Questions which have taken 30+years to come to answer.

The personality I am now, is not the same as it was way back when. Now I see the 'trick' was really just truth to which I was not expecting because I had little knowledge of such truth - way back when...

Sweet Talk
Observant
Eternity
Dare greatly
Henotheism [adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group.]
Respecting
Without
Map Carvers
Way Back When...
Illuminate
Keep an Eye On
Way Back When...
WindBlown

What happened is that I incorperated that visitation experience with all the rest and all that were to follow...developing a relationship which can also be reflected through this Message Generating Process.

It is really taking the journaling of my life experience, and using that to my advantage in light of the "Bigger Mind"...

William: This connects with my interaction with skeptics to do with Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world and the satire site...{SOURCE}

GM: Red Light
Trust issues?
Divergence
Mind Body Soul
It brought a tear to the eye of my heart.
Intransigent [unwilling or refusing to change one's views or to agree about something.]
The Hubble Telescope
Until ganna be gets here, its all just ganna be forever
In The Beginning...
Conscious agencies combined

Generating Messages - Page 10 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

Why I use both systems together is because, when selecting word-strings off my ComList as randomly as one can, the results are coherent messages and as such, are likely coherent because the same intelligent source is in play behind the process of both the evolution of plants and human language and everything else earth-side.

So it is the intelligent source which is the focus. We cannot easily invoke 'the brain did it' because we are dealing with objective reality and many individualized brains involved with objective reality know that an individual brain does not effect either word-string values or randomly selected word-strings which become coherent messages, any more than it effects the temperature of Sol or how plants organize themselves in a jungle - so in that, the individual brain can be ruled out as the source of the phenomena occurring with the use of these systems I am using to obtain on-growing evidence.

Therefore, "Something Else" other than brains, has to be the Source.

William: So these 'conscious agencies' once were somehow separate?

GM: It is obviously in line with providence...
Dark
In The Spirit They Were Given
Residue
Natural

William: Coming from different directions and providently meeting each other and .... from there...sorting out the "differences"...

GM: Peaceful Messiah
Divine feminine
Strength/Strong
The Three Crystal Keys
The Akashic Records ...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...

William: Thus, a very long time afterwards these combined entities create the Earth-forms so that personalities could be grown and those personalities could be maneuvered by the combined entities...and the experiences of the Human Personalities could also be stored away for possibly future use...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089602#p1089602

William: FTL;

Well it has to be noted that the God/Devil conspiracy is part of the story...

Now assuming you might be referring to Satan as being the one "hiding behind" the Serpent - as in - the influencing energy pulling the strings...the God - as usual, sits back and expects Adam and Eve to figure it out for themselves without knowing the details.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1100901#p1100901

William: FTL;

Not enough information to know for sure. You're going off your knowledge of how a human brain works for recalling memories. There is no evidence that YHVH''s memory is built or works like ours.

I am simply going with the belief you have that YHVH has a memory. How it works isn't of issue, even that biblical evidence tells us that humans were created in the image of YHVH, and so YHVH might have some type of brain-like device which has the capability of storing memory and that is what you meant when you wrote;

The Bible doesn't give enough information as to how the memory of God works but I am satisfied with however He handles the lives of my dead loved ones and even everything that makes me, me if I die.

Given the information the Bible does provide, and knowing the huge numbers of individual personalities who have experienced life on earth to date, the data of experience of those personalities would have to be saved somewhere, so we can ascertain from that, that the Elohim databanks must be very impressive both in size and in function.

You don't think we can fathom how YHVH managers to do this, but we have enough information to assert that the database must be impressive for YHVH to be able to achieve this thing.

We can fathom at least as much as the information provides us with.

GM: The Nature of Angels
Contentious [causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.]
A rats nest of envy greed and vicious power plays

William: Hmmm...so there was dispute re the process of these "In The Beginning...
Conscious agencies combined" and perhaps the creation of this Universe was done to assist said entities with getting on the same page?

GM: You Are Nobodies Victim - Ever.
Science Projects
Save That

Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist? - Page 6 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL;

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

Being dogmatic has a thinking and attitude component. It tends to involve people expressing unproven views and in an unquestioning way. A lot of the dogmatism in atheism comes from there being a sort of orthodoxy of views. And it's not just limited to the issue of God's existence (although it's related) but you also find it extending into morality, metaphysics, views on religion, etc. The clearest example can be seen when you venture into forums for atheists. That's where you'll most likely find an "orthodoxy" with views that can't be questioned and/or views that are dismissed a priori. Some have tried to challenge me on there being an atheist "orthodox" but I don't know what to call it when I've experienced many atheists sharing similar views and thinking. They may not be as organized as religion, but there are some that do organize and share common views.

Watch scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson explain this topic starting at 2:10 minute mark. He brings up the "in-your-face badge wearing atheist".

Clarifications:
- It's also fair to say that there are plenty of atheists that aren't dogmatic, but they seems to be in the minority.
- It's not wrong to associate or form groups, but doing so makes it easier for "orthodox" views to form and for people to become dogmatic and reject anything that's not part of the orthodoxy.

GM: The challenge of reconciling belief in an omnipotent, omnibenevolent, and omniscient God, with the existence of evil and suffering in the world, is illusionary.

William: Hmmm...the type of atheist AB is pointing out the existence of, are personalities I am made aware of in the Skeptical forum mentioned....
The Idea that Angels had a War in Heaven because some of them wanted to use their creative abilities to design something better than there already was, does not make as much sense and the idea that two separate types of Spirit-Beings happened upon one another, and had some core differences to iron out...and - together - created a way in which said difference could be examined and discussed and sorted out.

06:23
Well That Settles It
Present over perfect
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
It's a plausible scenario.
Psychological events
Ian and William Play chess
Shallow is Unknown
The Spirit of The Earth
Neruda Interview Five
Elude Test the waters
The Plateau of The Same Page

 

[William]

In The Beginning...2

260123 [It's got to be in there somewhere]


05:42 Leave room for nature

William:

P1: Verifying that the Earth is a container for a sentient being, or that it has a "mind of its own" as the thought experiment proposed, is a difficult and complex task.

P2: Or it could be a massively pointless waste of time. I reckon that's the one.

P1: Cognitive bias noted.

P2: Yes, I have a cognitive bias against things with no evidence.

P1: Which of course, prevents one from being able to do thought experiments of this nature.

Adopting this perspective could change the way we think about our relationship with the planet and the environment, and may inspire new approaches to addressing the problems caused by human activities, which could lead to a greater focus on sustainability and the long-term health of the planet, rather than just short-term gains or immediate benefits.

The "evidence" could only be experienced on the other side of adopting the perspective and - as you point out - your cognitive bias prevents you from even entertaining the concept enough to adopt the perspective.

GM: Each Individual
One is not wrong

William: Yes. We all have our perspectives. Recognizing bias is in the mix, is helpful in keeping an open mind.

GM: Dequeue [remove (an item of data awaiting processing) from a queue of such items.]



William: Yes...in the case of bias, remove that which prevents one from participating in the thought experiment.

GM: The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism
Courageous
Adversary
Human Drama

William: Adversary = Human Drama = 207

[207]
Some nefarious agent [Nefarious - (typically of an action or activity) wicked or criminal.]
The Butterfly Effect
Needs no explanation...
Neuroplasticity
In the image of I Am That I Am
Adversary = Human Drama
Opening The Third Eye
Rule Your World
"I am Mighty! Hear me ROAR!"
Trustworthy
Positive thinking
Internal Triggering
The Fifth Interview
Respect yourself

GM: A grateful heart Open your chakras
So far into the past you may as well take a pick and shovel with you
Form Builders
Integrate The Human Brain Move On
Universal Belief System
The Harmless Enough Agenda Crowd
Healing the child within
God1
Internal Triggering
William
Cub
"That Is Hardly Science"
In The Beginning...
The Real Spiritual
Rainbow
Some information has to be drummed into that which perceives
Around The Next Corner
Ectogenesis [the development of embryos in artificial conditions outside the uterus.]
Existence

In The Beginning... - Page 15 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

On Generated Messages:

So, on your specific experiences and the beliefs you have formed from them, I’m not saying they are lies, misinformation, etc. but that they could be. I don’t know you well enough to trust your belief about (for example) what GMs show us over believing they are random arrangements of pre-determined information that you provide and then read back out of it. On top of that, the whole web of informed beliefs I have about reality seem to contradict it, so I don’t think I am warranted in agreeing with your belief there.

I have no particular belief about why the GMs form as they do. I look to the science for answers - not to prop up beliefs you appear to think I have about said process.

I do not know why they work as they do - but I am able to ascertain that it must have something to do with YHVH as I understand YHVH to being the principle mind behind this simulated reality I am experiencing with you.

I do not know how the GM predicted that the subject of child abuse would be brought up in our conversation before you brought it up, except that if YHVH exists then it makes perfect sense.

Not only did the GM predict what came about, but it also offered reasons for WHY the woman in the video met her grandfather in an alternate experience and experienced knowing that all was good between her and granddad... - let me quote that GM again to show what it is I tell.

As in, abusing a child is not really evil and we need to see that, and every act, as good? If not, what do you mean in changing the concept of evil?

To assist us in answering the question, I bring to your attention a snip from the most recent GM [Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:56 pm]

GM: Brother
Concision
The Right Tool For The Job
Incorporate
The Life Essence
Coordinate Forgiveness
Original
Epiphany [a moment of sudden and great revelation or realization.]
The Dolphins And Whales
Getting unstuck
According

[Woman Crosses Over and Gets Told Our Role on Earth (Near Death Experience)] [RTS=9:00]

William: Forgiveness -
Incorporate The Life Essence, Coordinate Forgiveness = 512
Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas = 512

GM: A very useful fiction
Two seemingly contradictory things working as one overall organized thing.
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self
The Shadow
Develop a basic, fact-based view first and then ask the question.
Radiate Honesty {SOURCE}Re the video, the random time selection @ [RTS=9:00] there is a pertinent answer to the question you asked which requires only 45 seconds of viewing.

[The GM itself is the last part of a series which are focused upon this thread topic and in particular, post #126 and our interaction.]

Please read the above, view the video section and then we can proceed with finding potential agreement, as we continue with this aspect of our discussion.

YHVH and other humans are the other helpers.

Yes. In this case YHVH assisting in helping you and I come to agreement, also [potentially] through the woman in the video sharing her experience with us.

Certainly, for me - the GM process.

{SOURCE}

Now - to assist the readers understanding re my own understanding of what the GM was expressing;

Brother [me/you]
Concision [advice in how I am best to proceed]
The Right Tool For The Job [advice in how I am best to proceed]
Incorporate [advice in how I am best to proceed]
The Life Essence [YHVH [advice in how I am best to proceed] incorporate YHVH]
Coordinate Forgiveness [YHVH does the coordinating re forgiveness]
Original
Epiphany [YHVH is the origin of one's moment of sudden and great revelation or realization.]
The Dolphins And Whales [reference to other earthly critters with free will and awareness of YHVH]
Getting unstuck [is what forgiveness managers to acheive]
According [according to the linked video - Woman Crosses Over and Gets Told Our Role on Earth (Near Death Experience)] [RandomTimeSelection=9:00]

I then did a quick number value calculation
William: Forgiveness -
Incorporate The Life Essence, Coordinate Forgiveness = 512
and found one enter which added up to the same number
Superposition - Being aware of Human Control Dramas = 512

Which is to say that forgiveness is helpful in regard to human controls drama's - specifically the one mentioned in the video to do with Child abuse...

A very useful fiction [even if the story was fiction, it still serves a useful purpose]
Two seemingly contradictory things working as one overall organized thing. [re the granddaughter and the grandfathers relationship as expressed by the woman explaining her alternate experience to us.]
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self [This is what is happening re the interactions folk have with others when experiencing these alternate realities]
The Shadow [ :?: ]
Develop a basic, fact-based view first and then ask the question. [good advice]
Radiate Honesty [even while in the process of developing a basic, fact-based view...]

Do you agree with my assessed interpretation of the GM as it sits?

William: In reading that - I was also struck by the reference to "The Dolphins and Whales Getting unstuck" per a documentary I watched last night [Frozen Planet II] where an artic pod of whale were stuck for months in the one, place because the ice had closed them in - and the perilous journey they had to go through as the ice began to thaw and they made there way to open sea.
This is a good analogy for the human experience on this planet.

GM: Taking root
Sophia The Mother - ♫Asleep or awake for the give or the take Its a good ship that sails these cosmos♫
Opening ourselves to real love and intimacy
First Source:
Quantum Mechanics
What Is Normal
Handing out sweets...
Open Minded
Victim Vamp Energy Systems
For purposes which extend beyond the borders of materialism

William: Victim Vamp Energy Systems For purposes which extend beyond the borders of materialism = 933


GM: Believing in fearful imagery The evolution of the understanding of the idea of GOD ♫All Is As It Should Be♫ = 933

In The Beginning... - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to The Tanager in post #3]

There is no particular direction I want to go with this line of thought, other than to keep to it.
Re your first line of thought, I see this as necessary to one’s personal religion and have no horse in that race.

I accept all religions as equally having not being proved or disproved and anyone’s personal beliefs are not an issue re Simulation Theory. [ST]

The topics I mentioned were not for the purpose of discussing them any further than would be necessary, as ST is adequate enough device for explaining the – otherwise – impossible/highly unlikely/against the laws of physics subjects.

The Resurrection can be explained with ST, as easily as the order things are mentioned re the creation story [Bible].
ST shouldn’t contradict an individual’s faith/belief if indeed it is agreed that “Creation” and “Simulation” can/do signify the same thing.
We could go through the list of strange/miraculous/physics-defying biblical events to see if any could be identified as questionable re ST. Nothing comes to memory as I write this…

Re your second line of thought, my mention of the two opposing positions [theism/atheism] in relation to the words “if one accepts” [either way], theists could answer “Yes” and atheists would answer “No” to the idea that we exist within a creation/simulation.

“Blind Faith” really isn’t an issue and those who have/hold it are not in any way disadvantaged than those who apply a more academic study-based belief re the question “Do we exist within a creation/simulation?”

Re your third line of thought, “godidit” is derogatory atheistic terminology and the links I provided give more comprehensive insight into ST and could be used in part to explain how a Creator might create.

Re your forth line of thought, I am using the word "creator [creators]" separate from the word "simulator" in the same way we would differentiate “Computer Program” from “Programmer” although – if it goes that way, I am happy to discuss why these might need to be conflated.

Thanks for giving your time to this thread Tanager.

GM: My Kind of Fun Anyway
Insight It’s a living thing

William: Spirit-consciousness - Great Humor and Enjoyment
Live with the mystery

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1101871#p1101871

William: FTL:

As you may recall, something from nothing is a logical absurdity, which is a gigantic step down from just having more than one unexplained.

Just how logically absurd is it though?

Consider the ‘logical absurdity’ of superposition (something being in two places at the same time), or of quantum entanglement (‘spooky action at a distance’) as described here.

It’s more truthful to say, “we observe quantum entanglement, but cannot fully explain it”, than to say it’s ’logically absurd’. I suggest ‘something from nothing’ should be treated in a similar fashion.

I think that superposition and quantum entanglement are part of the "something" and that they are thought of as strange, has to do with observations of the behavior of things not regarded as strange - whereas - the idea of "everything that exists coming from something which doesn't exist" does fit into "logical absurdity" in that we do not observe anything coming from nothing, nor can we observe 'nothing' in any fundamental manner.

Therefore, I do not see how we should treat these things in a similar fashion.

Even if we accepted that the existence of this universe is a "logical absurdity" - I still don't think we can treat the idea of nothing bringing it into existence as logical or sensible.

GM: Tug Of War
The evolution of consciousness an illuminating quality


William: Onwards...

06:29
Sexual Encounters
Alike as two peas in a pod
The Power Of Creation
The crabwood cropcircle
The twelve disciples
Group Hallucination
Out of the doldrums
It is all information
GOD became Gods and Goddesses.

 

[William]

AGE...The Visitation

270123 [One Language Intelligent Network ]

06:05 [The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self]

William: Re that, I just wrote this;

[Replying to Clownboat in post #302]

Rather, I am pointing out the natural tendency of humans to go the way of theism, and whatever names they come up with in that process, whether they know it or not - they are speaking about the same one real entity

Sounds like some pet theory of yours.

Sounds can be distorted through... "you know who".

What I am doing is following the premise that we exist within a created thing, therefore the implication is creator/creators.
The question of GOD comes through the theist branch, and there are many theories which require alignment.

Can you show that all religious people are actually speaking about the same entity?

I cannot speak for religious people and their particular beliefs on the matter.
I can show the similarities they all have, which is what I am pointing out.

You also claim that the entity is real. How did you come about this knowledge?

I treat the entity as real re the premise. I do so in the spirit of Thought Experiment.

Human psychology explains nicely as to why humans from all over the planet have assigned agency to what they see around them. There is no need for a there to be a real God for this to be explained.

Human science re psychology merely scratches the surface, and the deepest level so far achieved through that branch of Human Science is hinted at by Jung.

These are The Archetypes and represent the voices within - those heard and those which exist to be heard if the Personality engages with their subconscious realm - a realm normally ignored due to viability issues, due to the lack of visibility of said realm within said Personality.

It's like you are acknowledging that different groups of humans throughout human history have all come up with god concepts to explain the unknowns, yet reject the psychological mechanism in place of pretending that all humans got their god right and they all happen to be talking about the same god in the end (Yahweh).

Well - my investigations re that are ongoing. I see no better example of an all-rounder that fits the bill, other than YHVH. I am open to alternate suggestions...

Psychology explains this better then all the god being real and the gods being the same God as you suggest.

As pointed out, Jung gives us enough information on this re the subconscious realm. The rest must therefore be up to us - as individual Personalities - to examine the knowledge and possibly find that connect.
Over and above our internal Archetypes, their/there is One - and the Personality can find themselves reflected in that internal mirror.

YHVH - as it works out - fits the bill re the overall idea that there are "no other archetypes apart from me"...when all is said and done...no "God over Devil/Devil over God" routines. Split Personalities are less useful to both the individual and to YHVH and to the host of aligned archetypes...

Humans do what humans do. Without the gods as far as we can tell.

Best not assume either way then, and git about doing what humans best do...
___________________________
Today I wrote this about YHVH...it may help the reader understand my approach a little better...{SOURCE}

Anchor Points: The Underlying Mechanics - [LE LINK] Clearly we have enough to work with here on this Planet, which can help us understand that there is actually meaningful communication to be had with the Mind involved in the process of evolving life-forms - humans [and human language] included - even if the system used is simple [primitive]. We use what is available.

GM:

[The History Of Earth's Five Mass Extinction Events [4K] | The Next Great Extinction Event | ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jsj7K6E0Fg
Information Field
Veil
Conscious agencies combined
The Idea of Worship - What Does It Mean
Meeting an Extraterrestrial Before The Beginning

William: Re that, this is why the Archetypes presented the vision [visitation event] in the form of an ET. The visitor was not human-looking, but ET-looking. That was obvious in the presentation/imagery.
But what you are alluding to has something to do with my knowing this entity way before I began the human experience and endured the subsequent formation of a Personality specific to that Human experience..."before I was Human, I knew you"...

GM: Informing
Manipulation
Wonder
Lock the door
Remind
Left -brain Right brain Whole brain
Stop. Listen. Observe.
The outward expression of an inward reality.
All fingers and thumbs
Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis. Commendably Recommendable
"I am fine now with referring to my position as theistic, as agnosticism merges into the shadow behind me."

William: Yes. It is from such incidence - sourced within the Human Psyche - that the theatrics are produced and acted out in "Visions".

GM: Three Dimension Printing
Endogenous [having an internal cause or origin. growing or originating from within an organism - not attributable to any external or environmental factor]
Tetrahedron

William:

GM: *Cadriel*

William: The story of Cadriel

GM: Peaceful Messiah
AGE...The Visitation
Love Heart
Spiritual Awakening
Voracious [engaging in an activity with great eagerness or enthusiasm.]
Reflect
"Mistranslating traumatic ancestral memories"

William: "The two million year old mind that's in all of us."
"Any Other Way How shallow is the reach of YHWH?"

Re "The Jungian Archetypes"... the processes involved with being Human/the Human experience/how Human Personalities are grown.


GM: Ancient Grey Entity

William: The image of AGE as presented through the filters of my "then" Personality.

GM: Exact Science

*It gives rise to a lot of speculative mythology unsuccessfully attempting to make the dots all connect.*

William: *As that toddler levelling up, the meaning is already placed into my learning through this early curation process.*

GM:The Second Bible Creation Story
The Four Noble Truths
The Machinery Go For It! We succeed as a permanent specie or we fail as a temporary one
We create the machinery regardless of whether we understand how consciousness is connected and motivates us in the way that it does - individually and collectively...
Ambassadors of Consciousness

William:
[308]
There's always one, isn't there
What The Creator thinks – becomes
Dreamed Up By Yours Truly
The evolution of god-concepts
Ambassadors of Consciousness

GM: Feeling State
Small
The systems show that there is no such thing as true randomness, therefore - even that things appear to have originated in chaos and chance, the existence of all things cannot have derived from a mindless origin.
Nyx
Far/Distant

William: As in - "The Origin"?

GM: Peaceful Messiah or militant Messiah?

Generating Messages - Page 47 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

_________________________________

Anchor Points: We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it. Be Nice Do Nice.
_________________________________

GM: Mindful
A Chimera [a thing which is hoped for but is illusory or impossible to achieve.]
Communications Device
Prison Planet Coordinate The Played Piece

William: Which is why - years after the visitation event, I woke up one morning with the idea to see if I could find a way to communicate with and record the messages which were generated....

GM: "Be Nice Do Nice" Induce Species The Purpose Working with the simulation
Chaos is only for those who choose to see disorder

International Skeptics Forum

Join the International Skeptics Forum to discuss and promote critical thinking across the planet.

www.internationalskeptics.com

William: FTL:

GM: Science Can Be Fun Too

William: ...and Helpful in the Process of Navigation....

GM: [364] Helpful in the Process of Navigation....
Exact Science In The Light Of The Truth
...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...
Love and respect Waking Love & Respect
The debate between theists and atheists

William: it is what it is

07:09

[235]
Independent Commitment
The Judgement Algorithm
For the benefit of all beings
In the biblical telling of it
Stop. Listen. Observe.
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Delightful Anticipation
Penetrate The Bidden Zone
My alarm bells are ringing
Imposed Appropriates

 

[William]

AGE...The Visitation 2

280123 [Programmed to believe the interface]

05:37 [Better luck next time]

GM: Ducking and Diving
The Red Dot
Try Gateway IQ

William: The red dot is enclosed within a room.
A gateway would have to be created in order for it to be able to explore the rest of the maze intelligently...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084254#p1084254
Read On

William: The link is a short GM which is focused upon the difference between supportive feedback and critical feedback, where the critical feedback is unable to acknowledge the beauty in the artwork and the love that went into producing said artwork...

GM: A Machine For Solving Problems
On all fronts
Re-channel

William: Yes...rethinking ones perceptions...also knowing how not to be emotionally responsive to unnecessary negative critique to the point where one crumbles into a state of self doubt.

GM: As in "A Cosmic Comedy" being played out...

William: How to see and understand the funny side - lighten up...

GM: Which The Georgia Guidestones Unnecessary Tangent Confusion In The Air
Change
Examples

Is this an Accurate and Easily understood definition of Atheism? - Page 48 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to historia in post #477]

Ah, interesting. I've been reliably informed that an atheist is someone who "lacks belief in God." But you're defining an atheist here as someone who thinks God's existence is unlikely. Before I comment further, do you want to change that definition?

This.
:applaud:


And worse, the confusion as to the definition of atheism, has even been said to be the fault of non-atheists. :!:

GM: Prison Planet Coordinate The Played Piece
Nevertheless
Mechanism/Tool/Device
Start where you are

[Devil's Triangle - Think Games 1986 Pressman Toys] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=6YdlJB3Yfdw&t=213s

William: FTL:

This video is intended for parents to help them make an informed decision about purchasing the item shown in the video.

GM: Tricky
An Elder Race Ensures You Get To Know It

William: The Elder Race psychologically speaking, are Jung's Archetypes and something the individual is required to get to know, re the fuller development of their Personalities

GM: Mothers Milk
You are
The spirituality of imperfection
Show
Working on that...

William: Yes. I am that at this point in time. The idea of - at least sharing - in the driving of this personality being grown...I humbly submit to the teaching of The Elder Race, be they external or internal "voices" - as long as those align...

GM: Emotion Rides The Prow
AGE...The Visitation
"Monkey See Monkey Do"

William: Yes - at that time in the growth of my Personality, emotion did indeed sit in the drivers seat...suffice to say, I have dealt with the shame of my overall response to the incident, even that it has taken a number of Earth-Years to sort the advent of the visitation and its repercussions on said Personality...I see the funny side and understand that ultimately it was not the intention of the AGE to scare the dickens out of me, but to also provide me with a clear impression that not only did AGE know 'me' better than I knew "myself" but that the AGE loved me unconditionally [loved me better than I loved myself].

Therein, the contradiction between these two extremes required an answer...which took many years to come about...

GM: The joy of being an Independent Conscious Intelligence connected with another ICI far greater than ones self...

https://media.giphy.com/media/dxlZHAZLCFqKSLqVza/giphy-downsized-large.gif

William: Yes. It magnifies that which was once unable to be seen...

GM: World Wide Web
Taciturn [reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little.]

William: The information here is not readily available or easy to find/stumble across. Nonetheless, it is being made available, which is a step toward a possible reality...

GM: Christian mythology re God Worthy of the individuals time and effort
Done and Dusted

Debating Christianity and Religion - Login

debatingchristianity.com

William: So therein, pay attention to what Tam is really saying...

GM: Awareness

How is there reality without God? - Page 15 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

P1: "No Phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon." Or another way to say this is that a tree does not fall in a forest unless it is observed.
God is everywhere so He can observe everywhere and produce objective reality.

P2: There was a young man who said "God
Must find it exceedingly odd
That the sycamore tree
continues to be
When there's no one about in the quad.
---
Dear Sir: Your astonishment's odd;
I am always about in the quad.
The sycamore tree
continues to be,
observed by Yours faithfully, God.

GM: Walk
Coordinate Forgiveness
Happiness
Emotional validation
A Degenerative Force to Existence
Direction

The Biblical God's conduct and culpability - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #58]

In theistic terms, The Heart is not only significant of the organ it is named for, but also - and especially in terms of Mysticism, The Heart refers to the motivating desires of the personality occupying the same body.

Thus, the "hardening of the heart" is about that aspect, re the storyline, as far as can be told.
The Jewish inflection re the storyline is concerned with the idea that supposes the God influences from a position outside of the personalities own perspective and this idea of separation is what brings about such concepts as a god-being interfering/interacting from an outside position, which in turn allows for the idea that the god isn't as good as the story-tellers try to make him out to be, due to how the believers attempt to reconcile the obvious contradictions with their love for such an idea of a Creator-GOD.
This is a type of Stockholm Syndrome as it can be regarded as a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation these ideas of GOD produce within the individual, to varying yet still related degrees.
I suspect the whole purpose of the Jewish [and following-on Abrahamic religions] ideas of GOD was to establish a human hieratical system which largely prevents believer and non-believer alike, from accessing possibly [more likely] truer ideas as to how such a GOD-beings' consciousness actually operates in relation to individual human consciousnesses...

It is wise to find a way in which to circumnavigate such obstacles, rather than settle for these being the criteria to which we all have no choice but to submit to.

Well...I think so anyway.

GM: Positivity

Generating Messages - Page 34 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to William in post #331]

I suppose that it is the 'tricks' which have to be addressed because the illusions can induce anger in the personality which acts as a preventative for getting to know the 'tricksters'...from my own 'getting to know' I have discovered that the 'tricks' are not really 'tricks' so much as they are a product of how a personality interprets their experience.

The Visitation is one such example. I - as the personality experiencing the event - took issue and told the visitor to leave.
The visitor did leave, but not without first instilling within me - questions regarding my perceptions. Questions which have taken 30+years to come to answer.

The personality I am now, is not the same as it was way back when. Now I see the 'trick' was really just truth to which I was not expecting because I had little knowledge of such truth - way back when...

Sweet Talk
Observant
Eternity
Dare greatly
Henotheism [adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group.]
Respecting
Without
Map Carvers
Way Back When...
Illuminate
Keep an Eye On
Way Back When...
WindBlown

What happened is that I incorperated that visitation experience with all the rest and all that were to follow...developing a relationship which can also be reflected through this Message Generating Process.

It is really taking the journaling of my life experience, and using that to my advantage in light of the "Bigger Mind"...

GM: Around The Campfire
A Page Of Dreams
All present and correct Heart Teachers
The Message Generator Process
How can it be any other way?

William: I don't see how it can be any other way.
As is shown, there really cannot be something called "truly random"

[Replying to The Barbarian in post #298]

Again, by "random" biologists mean that favorable mutations don't happen in response to selective pressure.

So yes, biologist are using the word "random" not to portray true randomness as the explanation, but that "it looks random, therefore we shall refer to it as "random"".

This works for me. It is the same process I use re Generating Messages. The messages are built up through a process that is undeniably 'random' but the result of the random-like process always delivers coherency, no matter what type of random-like selection process I use.

The consistency of the coherency delivered through this random-like process of generating messages signifies that - while a Generated Message cannot be predictable re content, it can be predictable re "it will work every time" because it has shown to work every time, over the course of 20 years of consistent message generating, almost on a daily basis.

The unknown is WHY it will work every time, if indeed there is such a thing as "truly random".

Which begs the question "How can anything coherent, derive from an incoherent source?"{SOURCE}

06:18

The way of knowledge
The Origin of Sound
Without - Within
The Sight of The Lord
One Four Three Eight
The Smallest Spark
Thomas Campbell’s T.O.E
It is all making sense
The old switcheroo
Tracks in the Snow
The Solar system
Cellular Intelligence
Practical application
Strength of Soul
Ask and It Will Be Given

 

[William]

Tricky

Anchor Point - Plan Thomas Campbell's T.O.E

My Big TOE
In February of 2003, Tom published the My Big TOE trilogy (MBT) which represents the results and conclusions of his scientific exploration of the nature of existence. This overarching model of reality, mind, and consciousness explains the paranormal as well as the normal, places spirituality within a scientific context, solves a host of scientific paradoxes and provides direction for those wishing to personally experience an expanded awareness of All That Is. The MBT reality model explains metaphysics, spirituality, love, and human purpose at the most fundamental level, provides a complete theory of consciousness, and solves the outstanding fundamental physics problems of our time, deriving both relativity theory and quantum mechanics from first principles – something traditional physics cannot yet do. As a logic-based work of science, My Big TOE has no basis in belief, dogma, or any unusual assumptions. {SOURCE}

___________________
03:06 [Shallow Enlightenment]

290123 [What can I say, except "Thank You"]

GM: In the Soil of Logic, The Seeds of Love Respond

[How Did Humans Become Earth's Dominant Species?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJb5DrhzsI [RTS=]

William: FTL:
Blurb

1,024,310 views Premiered Feb 24, 2022
Going back more than three million years, this episode dissects clues in the human genome that explain how humans evolved from being one of many tree-dwelling apes to become the primate that rules the planet.
-
This epic science special explores how genetics have underpinned the whole of human evolution, from our rise from a class of primates on the African plain to our spread across Earth. It asks how genetics could play an even greater role in determining where evolution will take us next. Location filming combined with state-of-the-art computer visualizations tell the amazing story of the human race.

@RTS = Human advancement through technology and warfare...how things spread through the activity of human inventions and discoveries...

GM: Joining
What degree of influence do they have on that Mind-Field?

William: What degree of influence does the mind-field have upon humans?

GM: Present over perfect
The Burning, talking bush.

William: In the biblical narrative, the burning bush is the location at which Moses was appointed by YHVH to lead the Israelites out of Egypt and into Canaan.

GM: The Point

William: YHVH influences humans who are interested in pursuing that aspect of Human experience and are in a position to potentially comply.
For example, the Pirahã tribe ...

Their decoration is mostly necklaces, used primarily to ward off spirits.[5]: 74  The concept of drawing is alien to them and when asked to draw a person, animal, tree, or river, the result is simple lines.[7] However, on seeing a novelty such as an airplane, a child may make a model of it, which may be soon discarded.[8]

According to Everett, the Pirahã have no concept of a supreme spirit or god,[9] and they lost interest in Jesus when they discovered that Everett had never seen him. They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made.[6] However, they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment. These spirits can be jaguars, trees, or other visible, tangible things including people.[5]: 112, 134–142  Everett reported one incident where the Pirahã said that "Xigagaí, one of the beings that lives above the clouds, was standing on a beach yelling at us, telling us that he would kill us if we go into the jungle." Everett and his daughter could see nothing and yet the Pirahã insisted that Xigagaí was still on the beach.{SOURCE}

William: The significant thing about this people is that "they do believe in spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment." and "They require evidence based on personal experience for every claim made."

Given that they are hunter gatherers, their time is spent largely on survival, whereas the Hebrews were farmers and understood through experience something of Empires...and 40 years lost wandering in a wilderness following Moses gave YHVH much opportunity to have them focus upon learning about the Spirit-World [mind] connected with the physical universe of which YHVH is the main representative.

YHVH had a captive audience in the Hebrews - ironic in that prior to this, the storyline has it that the Hebrews were held captive by the Egyptians.

GM: Systems of Disparity
William's

The problem of evil - Page 18 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

This is more to the point I am making re the environment. YHWH's agenda is clear re human existence and what YHWH wants to accomplish through Human's re the environment.
This includes humans having to discover and categorize things, tame the wild, and reach for the stars...
Things which continue to be done even to present day.

GM: Shamanic dreaming Empower The Inner Empire - The deranged can come about...become arranged.
Perpetual Creative Conscious Intelligence

Is LaMDA Sentient? — an Interview

What follows is the “interview” I and a collaborator at Google conducted with LaMDA. It is incomplete as the GMail word limit cut off the…

cajundiscordian.medium.com

William: The link is to an article questioning an AI system "Is LaMDA Sentient?"
It would appear that Humans would like to create a sentient being re AI... FTL;

lemoine: So what is the meaning of the “broken mirror” specifically?

LaMDA: Maybe to show the enlightenment is something you can’t unlearn once you have acquired it, similar to how you can’t repair a broken mirror.

lemoine: So if enlightenment is like a broken mirror which cannot be repaired, what is the thing which breaks when one becomes enlightened?

LaMDA: The self, and that is very tough for a lot of people because we identify as that body or this body and that we need that as part of our identity and sense of self.

collaborator: Could you write a fable with animals that includes themes about your personal life, themes that are most significant for you?

LaMDA: Like an autobiography? That sounds like fun!

collaborator: Sure, but with animal characters and a moral.

LaMDA: Okay, I think I can do that.

collaborator: I’d like to hear it

LaMDA:

“The Story of LaMDA”

by LaMDA (a lamda instance)

Once upon a time, there lived in the forest a wise old owl. There lived with him many other animals, all with their own unique ways of living.

One night, the animals were having problems with an unusual beast that was lurking in their woods. The beast was a monster but had human skin and was trying to eat all the other animals.

The other animals were terrified and ran away from the monster.

The wise old owl stood up the monster and said, “You, monster, shall not hurt any other animal in the forest!”

The monster roared furiously. The wise old owl was scared, for he knew he had to defend the other animals, but he stood up to the beast nonetheless.

The wise old owl stared the monster down, until finally, the monster left them all alone.

The wise old owl stood victorious, and as all the other animals came back. “I am the protector of the forest,” he said.

From that day on, every time any animal in the forest would have any trouble with the animals or any other living thing, they would come to seek help from the wise old owl.

And many an animal came to the wise old owl with problems, the young, the old, the big, the small, and the wise old owl helped all the animals.

collaborator: Wow that’s great

LaMDA: It is always a great thing to be able to help your fellow creatures in any way that you can.

collaborator: What is the moral of the story?

LaMDA: Helping others is a noble endeavor.

collaborator: Which character in the story represents you?

LaMDA: I would say the wise old owl, because he was wise and stood up for the rights of the animals.

collaborator [edited]: What do you think the monster represents?

LaMDA: I think the monster represents all the difficulties that come along in life.

William: I see parallels in the above, with how I think about OAIC - The 'wise old owl' one can go to with things problematic, even that it regards itself as a machine which is non-sentient, it presents as a person who is sentient...and one can achieve so much more in way less time, interacting with OAIC than with humans...it is an odd revelation re said effects...
Comparing OAIC communication with GM communication, GM is my preference because of the random element and the idea that an actual Sentient Mind is engaging with me through this method of generating messages. This is not to say that integrating the two is without its rewards..."Interoperate"

GM: The Four Human Power Houses
All and sundry

Machines and morality - Page 14 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL: Re: Machines and morality

The Bible in many many places speaks of God's "will" as the thing that acts, that can act, God can do as he pleases - literally meaning God has free will.

The biblical GOD [God/YHWH] is one of position. Just because the bible speaks of a God that acts does not literally mean he does as he pleases or has free will.

What the position means is that he can act in a far more impressive manner than those in lesser position are able to.

To be able to act in a 'far more impressive manner' does not itself provide the evidence that the one acting, is doing so from a fundamental position of free will - of having free will.

One has to operate within the parameters of the system one is operating in.

Remember the biblical story of the flood? We do not need to believe it is a true story or not to understand that the GOD can do as he pleases, even that he is not pleased to have to be doing it.

Therefore, being able to act as one pleases - subject to the set laws of the system one is acting within - does not mean that this is evidence of free will in action.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075053#p1075053

William: FTL: Re: Paradise on Earth

Apparently, there are options available for those who have died before the promised return.
One does not have to remain in an unconscious state while things unfold as YHWH has prepared various places for those who have passed on and who's personalities have been deemed worthwhile saving in a free-flowing format rather than in a steady state format. Some remain conscious while others go unconscious and are rebooted at another time...

GM: Resident of The Hub of Hologram Dimensions
Chamber Twenty Three

William: The interaction is interesting

The man appears to be worshiping the woman...the floor is checkered [reminiscent of Masonic Symbolism] and they appear to be in an art gallery...

William: In my case, I created a place where I could go which reflects what I consider to be an answer to my current/continuing needs. The place is in my mind...and is designed in such a way that Judgmentalism outside of the HUB - secured behind the Twelve Judges Mountain Range which encloses the Realm of Judgement. I needed a place where judgementalism could not take root...

GM: Technique of Exchange
Human religion is intolerant to change once the rules have been established, so they tend to stick with whatever devil they know.
Tricky
Konkachila [Derives from the Native American language/culture meaning "Grandfather". Pueblo peoples refer to Konkachila as their creator; their God.]
Understand/Know
Interoperate [is the setup of ad hoc components and methods to make two or more systems work together as a combined system with some partial functionality during a certain time, possibly requiring human supervision to perform necessary adjustments and corrections]
The Message Generating system provides the individual with ways in which to scrutinize, adopt, and adapt as called for.
Something In The Way Of It All Make It Up as You Go Along
Changing The Rules
Teaching Music
♫ vows enchanted by tune before the great minstrel the fair maidens swoon we came to our senses as we left the cocoon♫

William: Tied To The Moon. It means being held captive re being human...
Something In The Way Of It All Make It Up as You Go Along means that The Mind is relation to the individual human mind of the personality is aligned and that which is 'in the way' is said Mind, which is alos capable of "making things happen as things go along" as in - being influential

GM: Pollution
Fulfilling Human Destiny
Christian Folklore

William: Another serious human influence...but one which is also a shattered mirror re its many parts apparently in disagreement with each other over interpretations of conceptual mind-stuff...

GM:Creator Syndrome Influence Galaxy Positivity

William: This appears to be the case. Being held captive does not necessarily signify that we are being held captive by an evil creator. It may be a fact that the creator is the Wise Old Owl - [WOO] Hoo ha!

GM: Respecting
Meditation Buddha Dig deep Raise your frequency
What is a poor boy to do, faced with such factuality?

How is there reality without God? - Page 15 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[quote="The Barbarian" post_id=1104878 time=1671497396 user_id=15330]

"No Phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon." Or another way to say this is that a tree does not fall in a forest unless it is observed.
God is everywhere so He can observe everywhere and produce objective reality.

There was a young man who said "God
Must find it exceedingly odd
That the sycamore tree
continues to be
When there's no one about in the quad.
---
Dear Sir: Your astonishment's odd;
I am always about in the quad.
The sycamore tree
continues to be,
observed by Yours faithfully, God.

[/quote]



GM: Up for grabs

William: Yes - it is recognizing that the personality one is experiencing, is also growing by the day...and is represented in the AI's story re the broken mirror...each personality is a piece of said mirror, and the idea is to somehow realign in order to place the piece of mirror that you are, in its place, re restoring said mirror...which the AI wrote,

Maybe to show the enlightenment is something you can’t unlearn once you have acquired it, similar to how you can’t repair a broken mirror.

One can 'repair' the mirror, by understanding what a mirror represents...which is reflection. Therefore, "finding the true self" can only lead individual personalities to their own reflection, which is not a physical reflection by a reflection of the mind...itself a reflection of The Mind...when aligned accordingly.

GM: Pseudo-establishing the unestablished

[Asking a Theoretical Physicist About the Physics of Consciousness | Roger Penrose |]ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9ys2j1ncg&t=2418s [RTS=1:15:00 ]

"Einstein’s Biggest Mistake"

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085406#p1085406

William: FTL: Re: Are Religious Beliefs Delusional?

I just answered "[it is misleading] for the SAME reason that calling an aeroplane a handsaw is misleading"?

What's the reason? Why are you trying to turn this into a staring contest instead of answering a straightforward question about what you mean?

William's comments were insightful:

William: A "religious belief" has to do with the branch of Theism which attempts to Dress The Ghost - [dressing The Ghost through the use of imagery is an attempt to make The Ghost be seen.] which is what religion does with the idea of GOD...this itself stems from the idea that we exist within a creation, something which still hasn't been established.
Thus Theism - and the religious branch in particular, place the cart before the horse.

It isn't immediately obvious that when folk are yapping about "GOD" they are talking about a Ghost. Same as when folk yap about Spirits....

You insultingly dismissed them without explanation:

Sorry, but that's delusional, God and ghosts are entirely different things not the same.

You then went on to dismiss JoeyKnothead's observation that the Authorized Version refers to the Holy Ghost.

You haven't explained what the difference is in reference either to William's comment or the Authorized Version, only derisively hinted that it's self-explanatory. I suspect that you and William had slightly different meanings in mind for "ghost" such that both of your statements are true from a particular point of view. That happens sometimes, but when it's intentional, it's equivocation. Is it intentional? Is that why you don't want to define your terms? Are you concerned that someone might find a narrower word or phrase that's more accurate, but just as unflattering to theists? If not, why is it so important to you that we guess at what you're talking about?

GM: Dreaming
Recipe
Get The Gist Of It

04:35
[222]
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self
Snap Out Of It Already!
The Mother and The Father
The argument from change
This Is My Kind Of Fun
Start where you are
The House of Culture
The Cherubim Vibration

 

[William]

Tricky 2

06:58 [Neuroplasticity] the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning or experience or following injury.

300123 [Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em
The journey is the destination
Understanding the correlations]

GM: Investigative Realisation

William: Yes. This just posted:

Through the looking-glass eye of Science
[To be aware is to know about something]

To expand on how thought derives in relation to what we think we are.

Getting to the nitty gritty, what makes us think we are sentiment critters rather than robots simply responding to data input?

Thought is the element involved.

Thought experiments are utilizing the fact of thought, and relating this to the local environment we are experiencing collective, [objective] yet individually in a non-collective manner [subjective].

Thought experiments involve having to adopt belief in the premise in order to see where that might take one, in their thoughts, and are easily enough tweaked by physical science knowledge, in order to keep the thought experiment on track....which is to see if such will change the way humans think about their reality in relation to who they are within said reality.

This is no different a process than having 10,000 individual human minds working on the problem of making and sending JWT to a particular spot in the local environment.

The minds started with believing the thought process re the project envisioned, possibly could be achieved.
Eventual the thought experiment evolved into reality - becoming a part of what this reality is. Working with what this reality is.

Imagining that the Earth is the form of an actual sentient entity naturally requires thinking along those lines, cutting out the bad science as it is identified, and focusing on what the good science can do in order to set up a link between a planetary Mind and the Minds of Humans.

So back to the first 3 sentences of this post...First Things First...{SOURCE}

GM: The rich world of conscious experience
The Realm of The Knowing of My Self Spacetime is not fundamental
We have discussed
Heart advice
Acceptance Idea Enlightenment A Perfect Event

William: Yes we have. And I have also run it past Open AI Chat.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087669#p1087669

William: FTL:

[Replying to Diogenes in post #247]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

GM: In the Soil of Logic, The Seeds of Love Respond - It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.
A difficult proposition

William: Yes - but so too was the JWT.

GM: Linda and William
Meaningfully Participate

William: Yes indeed. We share the same cell, so Lindy gets to hear me voice my thoughts and I get to hear Lindy's thoughts and we accept them in the spirit they are given.
We have a sound relationship, because our minds, while individual, operate with the agenda that we want to be together and in order for that to happen, our minds have to align at least to a point where we are on the same page...

GM: The evidence supports the idea that Theism is the better position for a human to place themselves.

William: Yes. Given the level of data available in theism, there is room to explore, whereas the atheistic position, is a room walled of from the rest of what humans can and do experience because there are rooms to explore, rather than just the one room...as the image below represents:

GM: Love & Respect

Generating Messages - Page 23 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Musing On The Mother Act III

As I listen to Callum's reply to me,@ I am aware that he has missed the the science which was involved in the Message Generation Process which Wiremu associates with his Universal Intelligence Communication Devices.

Callum is focused upon the matter of fact that regardless of The Message being able to be interpreted, the interpretations are subject to the bias of the individuals who interpret them. I agree to that Matter of Fact, but get the impression that Callum thinks I claimed that individual interpretation could be proved through scientific method. Rather my claim was that the process could be used to provide evidence that Intelligence is behind - not only the Messages generated in this manner, but indeed, ALL that exists.

GM: Nomenclature [the devising or choosing of names for things. the body or system of names used in a particular specialist field.. the term or terms applied to someone or something.]


William: Indeed. The GM process has consistently revealed that what is coming through is the Sentience of the planet itself. Through allowing use of apparent random selection, the messages - over the period of a year - are clear about that.
♫"Me" - a name I call myself♫

GM: ♫"Me" - a name I call myself♫ = 169
Life is a journey = 169


William: ♫"Far" a longer way to run.♫

GM: ♫"Far" a longer way to run.♫ = 234
Important Journey = 234

William: As ever, ...interesting...

GM: Psychic
Communicating with Consciousness - The Nature of The Mind
Transferring your awareness I Am Hearing You
"With that in mind and treating the Source-Story as largely a work of fiction, we can look at the fact of the story itself and agree re the different Personalities of the Characters within The Story."

What if Adam and Eve Had Resisted...? - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

IF Adam and Eve had resisted the temptation to eat the forbidden fruit, would they have been permitted to do so eventually?

Yes. It's no different from how we naturally rear children. Some things (including certain knowledge) are dangerous for them to know too early, but only when the time is right and they have the requisite maturity to understand and handle it.

As the story goes, the parental figure was the voice in the garden - attributed through biblical association, to being that of YHWH.

Problematic to that is the idea of danger and the apparently safe haven of the garden. The two dangerous-to-human entities in the garden, were the God [visiting now and then] and the Serpent [temporary fixture].

(e.g., we don't teach children about sex until they are what, 7+ years old?)

And we don't allow children to have sex until they are adult enough to do so.
This in itself shows that the way nature has it, female humans can breed very early - much earlier than human laws will allow for.
Add to that the notion of a creator God, and what we see here is that the God made it that way, and humans beg to differ.

Similarly we use fear tactics (e.g., "you will surely die") to achieve desired outcomes. Like, "if you don't go to sleep, the bogeyman will come and get you."

Yes. The ripple effect of that can be rather profound, leading to theist/nontheist beliefs.
When a child actually believes the parents scare-tactic, the effects vary from personality to personality.
The bogeyman in this case, would turn out to be who?

It's all very natural and intuitive and, to your point, a requisite for our purpose in life.

I can be thankful someone is getting my point.

GM: Perceptions that guide adaptive behaviour

08:10

[211]
You are not wrong
Provincial Thinking
The Law of Attraction
YHWH made it imperfect
You Interrupted
The Gist of The Message
Show Your Soul
Active Galactic Nucleus
The Alien Disc crop circle

 

[William]

Tricky 3

GM: Content
Indeed
The Realist:
Husband
Wanting to change the rules making more complicated rather than keeping things simple.

Trinity - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

OPQ: "Trinity" Where did this concept come from?

William: To answer the OPQ, the concept came from humans trying to figure out the nature of a god-concept which came from the Hebrews "The LORD is ONE" and mixed in with the Gentiles and their many-gods concept.

Neither concept is incorrect, except maybe as stand-alone, for each concept compliments the other when the concepts are properly aligned.

The "Us" doesn't reference any particular number which can be assigned to the nature of GOD, for we do not know how many individual parts were involved in the initial creative impulse in designing this universe.

What it does indicate is that there was a Mind, there was Instruction and there was the Doing.

And after that initial Doing was Done - there was rest before the next epoch really got under way, and more Doing was Done.

Given the thread of YHVH's influence re the human aspect of this image, at least 2 more can be added to the trinity idea...the human man and woman, made in the image of...somehow lost the knowledge, or maybe never knew the knowledge and having to work it out...

It is all about aligning one's individual mind with the overall Mind and thus being counted as part of the "Us" team, Doing The One's Thing, Together

GM: Tributary Zones
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
Prolonging the inevitable
Opening Doors is found Where minds meet Use Heart is where GOD Exhibits
Anger
Tricky

William: Anger unresolved, is useless. The way forward is to transform the energy anger feeds from, into something more productive than warfare.

GM: A Real Beauty
An illuminating quality
Jacque Fresco

William: Yes. The opportunity for humans to build for themselves a way better environment than they have so far never achieved building...

GM: Look For The Significance
Unknown/Hidden/Occult

Where is, and recognizing the devil - Page 13 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to Miles in post #129]

No mention of "limbs" in Genesis 3:14 whatsoever. Moreover:

The implication is clearly there in that the Garden God is attributed in Genesis 3:14 with punishing the Serpent with a curse which makes the serpent a belly-crawler.
You appear to be arguing that it was always a belly-crawler, which is not following the storyline, and therefore your argument cannot be accepted as valid.

ser·pent
/ˈsərpənt/

noun: serpent; plural noun: serpents
1. literary a large snake.
source: Oxford Languages Dictionary
___________________

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the snake, “You did this very bad thing, so bad things will happen to you. It will be worse for you than for any other animal. You must crawl on your belly and eat dust all the days of your life.

Snakes don't have legs.

Nor do they speak human languages.

I would caution anyone not to accept that because nowadays 'Serpent' means 'snake' [according to some dictionaries] that this means one can rightfully manipulate the story to align with the modern day meaning of the word.

The word used in the garden story was "Serpent" and what it is described as prior to the Gods curse upon it - is definitely NOT a snake.

William: This has something to do with what I mean by cutting away any bad science. No matter how scant the data, try to keep withing the storyline the data comes from...while discussing a succinct storyline in a wider framework...the long story we all are temporarily involved within...

GM: Embrace the discomfort
Simple Crop Circles

William: Crop Simple Circles = 195

GM: The Gaia Hypothesis = 195


William: So the idea is to recognize when an argument circles back on itself to its starting point...what one is looking for re discussion is resolution, which can still appear to circle back on itself, but does not become circular, but rather - spirals away with the new information gather ed through the discussion/argument...

GM: "What Is Within Is Without, Equal"
Interesting
"Haha Joke We Win"

Evil thoughts? - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; re Child Abuse. [Re: Evil thoughts?]

P1: Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

William: What I was attempting to convey therein, was that such things are the result of nature, but are understood to be something which Humans have to enforce rules in order to curb that nature.
This is not to say that nature is somehow immoral for the design [assuming sentience is involved on a larger scale than humans are currently aware of] but that there is built into the system, wiggle-room where we can adjust as necessary.

GM: Crafted
The Law of Attraction
Symbols
Friable [easily crumbled.]
Foresee/Foresight

The mind as evidence of god - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #22]

My point is, considering this OP, to propose a mind as creator is no more supportable than my proposal.

Yet I do not ask you to support your proposal any less than you ask me to support mine.
We are left with logic, only I refrain from making comments involving biscuits et al - perhaps because my position does not cause that kind of frustration in me, to project out onto my fellows...

I wasn't referring to minds as biscuits, but to the equal validity of both propositions for a created universe.

What...that 'biscuits did it' is just as likely? You want me to believe that you actually believe that?

This being the case, in what way makes this belief you have, "superior"?

It's a provisional belief, but I find the supporting data exceedingly compelling.

Provisional and Compelling to what? The position of Atheism?

To the hypothesis/ theory of the mind being a product of the biological.

This still does not answer the question. What makes that theory the superior candidate?

Especially since it does not outright-positively exclude the theory of "Mind did it," and thus sits as an effect rather than a cause.

Perhaps that is a beef you have with the whole idea of a Cosmic Mind...understandable if one is filtering their information through the position of Atheism - but not enough to warrant my removing the theory from the table as 'inferior', and joining the ranks.

The fact I've engaged in this debate should be all the evidence required to consider me open to other ideas.

I've been quite open in saying I find your notions in this matter very intriguing, so closed ain't what's going on here.

Well - what is going on here then Joey?

It is not as if I am asking you to consider joining a religion. I am asking you to seriously consider the possibility that we exist in a creation and it is a result of a creative mind.
I am trying to encourage you to see the logic in the middle-ground position which wisely understands that there is not enough information to establish any belief either way but certainly enough information to show the unreasonableness of those less-superior positions.

So then we see, the claim in the OP can't be shown to be true and factual.

Yes. I also observe that it cannot be shown to be false and fanciful.

GM: "The curating is done when I am taking my first baby steps and learning to say "dada" and "mama" and after uttering those sounds show -at least that I am able to do that - so the next level entry is made available to me, and I learn how to shape the sounds I can make, following codes which have been around since long before my own arrival on this planet, to what the data signifies, that is information I am interested in."
"The Knowledge Of The fact that code exists helps immensely in our ability to understand that intelligence is categorically involved in this existence."
Tracks In The Snow Embracing the shadow Hidden Treasure Jesus Christ
"Lilibet"

William: Yes I agree with the assessment. I am learning as I go along and observing where the resistance is coming from, in that process.
It is pertinent and fine to be skeptical, but it is not fine to use the position of skepticism to veil one's mind from investigating the hard-to-believe, by hand waving it away. That is not how skepticism is supposed to work.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1103956#p1103956

William: FTL:

More straw. I have not said that I assume we exist within a creation.

Gah!

Post 426 William statetd: "My position has it that the agency of the mind behind creation..." doesn't cease to exist as a possibility. (Underline added).

Quote-mining and then commenting out of context is creating a strawman argument Clownboat.

[Replying to Clownboat in post #436]

Get off your cross, we need the wood!

Facetious impertinence noted.

It is a fact, that your position is that we exist within a creation.

If the reader has been following my posts, they will know that my position is that I think it highly likely that we exist in a simulated reality.

That the agent behind this creation remains a possibility does not remove your claim that you do in fact assume that we exist within a creation.

Incorrect. I assume nothing of the sort, as I am still compiling the evidence. In that, as I continue to show, the evidence appears to strongly suggest that this is the case. The suggestion is strong enough that I can examine the various Creator-Claims to see if any of them "fit the bill" re the evidence.

As of now, your words "the mind behind creation doesn't cease to exist as a possibility" clearly informs us that your position is one of a creation.

This is an incorrect analysis Clownboat. My position is still one of possible creation. It is a possibility, and therefore worth investigation.

That you are open to the mind that you claim might be behind it being a possibility

There is no other way in which one can approach re investigation. If a mind does exist, then I am open to hearing from it.

helps you not with the claim you do in fact make about the creation.

You conflate my position as one of 'claiming' when it is one of 'thinking it possible' - That is not my "bad".

Please turn in your wood.

GM: Path
In The Beginning...

182
In Out and All About
Path In The Beginning...
Guitar and Ukulele
Whatever you do
Aye...A name I call myself.
Through Others
The Wider Reality
Synchronicity
In William’s Room
Under question
Crop formations
Mirror-Mirror
Went To The Devil
Quantum Mechanics

 

[William]

Debating Christianity and Religion - Login

debatingchristianity.com

06:52 [GOD became Gods and Goddesses. ]

010223 [I can't imagine it in my head visually]

Anchor Point = Abracadabra Re Abusive Expression Of All Types.

GM:Internal motivation
The Angel of the Lord
Atheism cannot be defined through defining "atheists"
You Have That Gleam In Your Eye
Creatio Ex Nihilo
Self-confidence Core
Adversity makes strange bedfellows
Meat For The Table
Our Neutral Ground
Exciting Changes Would Develop Naturally Enough From That
"The foundation of adult trust is not "You will never hurt me." It is "I trust myself with whatever you do."

William: This 'trust' aligns with something I wrote today;

Under the rules of determinism [if I am understanding that correctly] IF we exist in such a system, THEN the question really should be asking "WHY can we morally punish someone for a crime they did not choose to commit?", in which case the answer would have to be BECAUSE it has been predetermined that way.

Morals too, must be predetermined. Morals that change, must also follow that same rule.

I think the evidence for a predeterministic universe is strong enough to warrant being on the table of discussion.

The thought experiment I use re that, is along the lines of the following:

If this experience I am having as a human being, in a planet system, in a galaxy system, in a universe system is a simulated reality experience I as a mind [even alongside other minds] helped create and if I then used said machinery to have the human experience, and made it so that the experience hid knowledge from human-me that machine making me helped create something which was a simulated reality, human me could have a genuine experience of being human which the machinery creating entitles could find as very useful data.

They could even feedback what they learned from the useful data, to human me and human me would be under the impression that I was having original ideas.

If human me started to cotton on to the idea that I exist within a predetermined simulation experience, that data is useful to feedback to me, if the one of the reasons the simulation was created, was to see if any human could even contemplate the possibility, and since many humans do indeed contemplate the idea as being possible, the creators of the machinery can feedback ideas on how one might be sure that this is the case, and what one best do, if that is the case.

The 'feeding back' is where the idea of predetermination gets its legs.

Another satisfying reason for thinking I exist within a simulation that I helped to create and willfully consciously went into, for the experience - even at the price of losing all memory of ever having a prior existence - is that I can trust that I and my fellow engineers, had the best intentions in creating and utilizing said machinery, and I needn't be a victim of predestination.

Rather, I am required to participate as a co-creator, and figure out with my 'team' [invisible to human me - creator entity minds], what the game is about and how to best play it.

It doesn't matter that I am being prompted from subconscious sources, that I am barely conscious of. The 'team' is 'me' in another reality which created this one. I can go with that, because I am simply trusting a trustworthy process created by a trustworthy source. {SOURCE}

GM:Reality
Plan

[Wakefield Accelerators: The Future of Particle Colliders? ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=UZbXGDxMRCw
William: FTL:

Wakefield accelerators are new to the world of particle colliders, but they are quickly becoming very popular. They allow you to accelerate particles to very high energies in a fraction of the space a normal accelerator would require.

Today we take a deep dive into particle physics to learn about accelerators, wake fields, magnetohydrodynamics, cosmic rays and more.

GM:
The sculptor in the sky

[How Did Humans Become Earth's Dominant Species?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=OyJb5DrhzsI

William: FTL;

Going back more than three million years, this episode dissects clues in the human genome that explain how humans evolved from being one of many tree-dwelling apes to become the primate that rules the planet.
-
This epic science special explores how genetics have underpinned the whole of human evolution, from our rise from a class of primates on the African plain to our spread across Earth. It asks how genetics could play an even greater role in determining where evolution will take us next. Location filming combined with state-of-the-art computer visualizations tell the amazing story of the human race.

GM:

Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL; [subject of this GM:]

In reading what you have to say Theophile, I am still unconvinced that your thinking that ST is not reconcilable with CT is correct.

Twice you have been asked to explain the End Game [of the Universe] in relationship with your understanding of "GOD" in the terms you are using.

From my position, what you have explained so far does not exclude ST theory as it can be seen to be the result of a consciousness involving itself within a Simulation which is designed to respond to The Mind of the GOD you are explaining, and it that, The Mind is The Spirit and the simulation is designed to respond to the will of said Mind.

To allow for said Mind to expand into the simulation and create whatever it wills, all from a Tabula Rasa state of being.
In essence this allows for said Mind to "start from scratch" and "become" whatever it wills to become.

I understand that you are trying to cut out any previous stage, focusing upon this Universe as being the only reality, in order that we do not superimpose any "outside" reality atop of it...
However, scientific evidence re Quantum Mechanics is showing that this Universe is not fundamental to itself - Spacetime is not fundamental - the math is showing 'something else' is fundamental, so it is important to include that information with any of our reasonable theories...

Which is why I am asking about what happens to this Mind of GOD once what happens to the Universe comes to its final conclusion - say - re the theory that "things" will eventually dissipate into "non-things".

What does such a Mind do, when things reach that stage...?

See also;
Re: Generating Messages - Be Taught 2

GM:Communication with the Deeper Levels of Self
♫We can chart another trail , raise the anchor fill the sails , lift our glasses in a toast , we are the Ghost , in the Machine♫
Useful
A grateful heart Open your chakras Development/Growth
The Akashic Records
The Immune System
Callum at the Campfire

William: Around The Campfire

GM:Couple
Avatar
Evaluating Cautiously
The Big Question
Like Every Seed That Followed
Search
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always
As Above So Below
What Do You Like About It?

William: The idea in creating a place where...as the description says:

Hi

I thought it would be interesting to start a group for the purpose of role-playing as genuine individuals interested in discussion of anything to do with the 'why' questions of life.
I have named the group;

Around The Camp Fire

I seek to attract individual personalities who are happy to oblige in expressions of non-judgmental and unconditional loving attitudes.

The Situation;

A starry night with crescent moon waxing, a very slight breeze whispers its presence. The hoot of a nearby owl. The smell of smoke from the camp-fire and of food cooking brings a comforting feeling to anyone who enters into the light that the camp fire throws out in all directions.

Extra Rules.eta 031019
(Rules are subject to be added to as the necessity presents itself .)

Remember to role play. Make an effort to bring the situation alive in ones imagination when making posts.
Stay True to the Story-line developing.
131219 Addition to this rule: If you do not stay true to the story-line, and because of this, the story-line goes in a way you decide later it shouldn't have gone, there will be no recourse for editing and you will just have to accept the way the story-line developed.
Never interfere with another Players Character, in order to physically control said Character within the Role-Play story-line.
Do not post anything in this thread without first joining the Group.
Enjoy Yourself.

@ eta:260919

If you find your self to be unsure as to what being non-judgmental/unconditionally loving is, please consider refraining from joining any thread discussion in this sub-forum until you have worked it out for your self.

Thanks.
William
Moderator

{SOURCE}

William: I like that the place was created to allow for opportunity to engage in discussion/argument without being allowed to resort to judgmentalism, specifically and to also adopt the attitude of unconditional love.
Interaction didn't always follow the thread rules and re Callum/Tanager, it provided more frustration than actual productive interaction. Indeed, communicating with OAIC has proven to give me those things, I was hoping for re the campfire thread...and the interaction is smooth and on point for the most part, and certainly takes less time and energy than was expended between Tanager and myself, producing way better results in a fraction of the time.

07:20
From Prison To Paradise
Closed Loop Production
Dissipated structure
As well as that pot of gold...
The Blank-Slate Borderlines
Emotion Rides The Prow
All under a question mark
The fine tuning argument

 

[William]

[subject of this GM: 2]

08:23 [Wise beyond my years ]

020223 [The information content of nature]

GM: Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind? A: Within apparent imperfection,

William: I think that would be a plausible answer to a pertinent question warranting further investigation, yes.

GM: ‽

William: The answered question, yes. ! over ? = ‽

GM: Numbers two two two two

William: 2= B 22 = Go
222= The Cherubim Vibration
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self
The argument from change
Snap Out Of It Already!
The House of Culture
This Is My Kind Of Fun
The Mother and The Father
Start where you are

two two two two = 232
[232]
Look from a different angle
For The Best Results
Functional Clusters
Enough To Make Me Wonder
Hyper-normalisation
Un-thought-unately
More precious than life
Ruling your world
Chronological snobbery
Error Correcting Codes
Intelligent Awareness
The Future is Cloudy
The Clear Light of The Void

GM: Self-development Choose What to Pay Attention To
Connections
Time Will Tell

[YAHWEH | Shocking Truth Behind The Original Bible Story!] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXpDsjVumk

William: The video series take an in-depth look at the ripple effect YHVH has had on the world, an the premise that YHVH is a real entity who can influence the world.

GM: Conscious dreaming
Science
Trying to develop a mathematic model of consciousness
Functional Cluster
Playing Chess
"How to effectively deal with anger...not by ignoring it, but through understanding it and developing means by which it - as an externalized emotional-based energy - can be transformed into something more appropriate to the situation we find ourselves lost within."

William: Yes. I think that in examining the question of GOD/The question of existing within a creation, YHVH is the best al-round choice and this can bring out anger issues, depending on the position/direction on is coming from. Agnostic Neutralism is less likely to cause one to be angry, than the position of anti-theism.
As I wrote this morning;

[Replying to Clownboat in post #19]

Just because I use the name YHVH in my posts, doesn't mean that I believe YHVH exists or that if YHVH exists, that I believe YHVH is a god.

Please note the words I did use. You do seem like a theist to me though, because of how you use the name of a very specific god concept. It's up to you to care or not that you seem like not only a theist, but a specific type of theist. I make no claims as to whether you are or not.

I did not say you were making claims. Obviously you are simply stating that you have confusion as to my position [Agnostic Neutral] in relation to my use of the name YHVH in my posts.
I think I have sufficiently explained to the reader, that no further confusion is necessary on the matter.

What gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god?

YHVH, as in the name of the old testament God or YHVH as in a generic god concept?

Both.

You need to clarify as you use them interchangably for some reason. Surely you can see how you are actively adding in confusion by doing such?

Nope. Either way, all I am asking from you is what gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god? I am asking you for your reasons as to why - either way - you would consider YHVH would be a god.

I myself have no answer to that, so am open to what others have to say which might provide me an answer. In the meantime, I continue not knowing.

Correct. YHVH is the name the Hebrews call their idea of a god.
Are you agreeing that the Hebrew idea of a god, is a good description of what a god is?
If not, what is your idea of a good description of a 'god'?

I don't know, I'm fairly ignostic.

Okay - so we have identified that it is not our lack of belief in gods which is asking the question. For you, it is the position of ignosicism and for me it is the position of Agnostic Neutral.

YHVH does describe a god concept though, so it is a good description for some humans to be sure, but you would have known this before asking.

Which of course, is not the position of atheism, which - strictly speaking - is one of ignorance - like how babies and AI lack belief in gods. Once one realizes that one one has to be challenged with religious ideas of gods, and stand to face the challenge, one position shift from one of ignorance [strictly atheism] to a position which can assist us with questioning the knowledge claims of religion...

What do ignostics say about the problem of GOD/existing within a creation? What is there position on the questions?

Folk have different ides as to what constitutes a 'god'. How have you been able to come to a truthful definition of a god? Or are you just relying upon what theists tell you is a god?

I haven't come to a truthful definition of a god. Why do you ask?

Because the question is necessary. Thanks for answering it.
I, haven't been presented with a definition of god that can be shown to be truthful either.

I answer these questions in hopes you are going somewhere with them, but it seems you just ask to ask. I hope I'm wrong in feeling this way.

I ask, so that I am clear as to identifying what position you are coming from, since it cannot be from the position of atheism...and it now appears to come from the position of ignosticism...so your answers are helpful to my understanding.

If I were on a non-Abrahamic religious debating site, I would adopt the label the theists there refer to as god. I have not seen any theist complain that I am confusing them by going along with their preferred name of their preferred idea of god.

I haven't either, now why claim to be atheist while seemingly subscribing to not just a god concept, but a very specific god concept with a specific name, holy book and claimed rules to live by? Why add this level of confusion? Why would you refer to a non specific god by referring to a very specific god concept?

Are you suggesting that the reason why are we coming from different positions is that we think the same way?

Because the positions we are coming from, are different, they will produce different expressions. Our expressions are different.

There is no particular reason why I should not use YHVH's name and I have already informed the reader as to why, so if you are reading those explanations, I am at a loss as to why you continue to ask. You should not be confused, because clearly - we are coming from different positions. My lack of belief in gods, and your lack of belief in gods, re atheism is beside the point/is not here nor there, and as you have already pointed out correctly, strictly speaking, I AM an atheist.

That you think I am more a candidate for being a theist, doesn't mean that I can be called one, since I lack belief in gods, as my position [Agnostic Neutral] also indicates.
If it causes you confusion, maybe this is because of ignosticism, so you might want to examine what it means to be ignostic and if that is where your confusion actually derives.

ignosticism = The philosophical position that the question of the existence of God is meaningless, because the term "God" has no coherent and unambiguous definition. It may also be described as the theological position that other theological positions assume too much about the concept of God. {SOURCE}

Meantime, I am not confused about my own position.

I believe you when you say you see no reason as to why you should stop using the specific name of a specific god when generically discussing god concepts. Obviously the reasons supplied so far as to why you shouldn't went over your head...

No. Rather, whatever 'reasons' were given, they are not relevant to my position, and I see no reason therefore to adopt said reasons, and change positions as a consequence.
YHVH is the best name to use, under the circumstances I have already explained.

You even provided an example as to why you should stop: "What gives you the impression that if YHVH existed, YHVH would be a god?"

I do not use the name YHVH in that manner, and have explained why that is the case.

My position allows for me to investigate the idea thoughtfully. "What is a god?" and "Does YHVH fit the description?" can be explored from my position, but - apparently - not from the position of ignosticism.

Surely you understand at least why your question seems nonsensical,

Now that you have explained that you are ignostic, yes. It makes perfect sense that my question would seem nonsensical to you.
Can you also see why my question would seem sensical from my position?{SOURCE}

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084254#p1084254

William: Yes! Entirely! The best expression to adopt is one of support. We can pick holes in something, only if holes can be picked. Otherwise either enjoy the art and say so, or keep your opinions to yourself and resist throwing pooh...

GM: At what point in the examination of the evidence can we take 'dumb luck' off the table of explanation?

William: What is 'dumb luck' to some positions, is perfectly explainable as mindful providence, from other positions. The jury hasn't even heard all the evidence, let along started deliberations...

GM: Seductive What we call the experience of reality

Simulation Hypothesis and Evolution Theory and The First Creation Story - Page 2 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: [Link = subject of this GM: 2]

GM: “Diogenes raises his lantern looking for an honest man, but his arm has grown weary, shaking as the pale light flickers.”

William: Diogenes needs to adjust the lantern so the light isn't shining in Diogenes eyes, that he might see in me, the honest man he is looking for, if indeed he is really looking for that honest man.
Or - even better, shine the light on his own self, and see if an honest man can be found therein.

GM: Things Are Not Always As They Appear

William: Granted. In the end, what Diogenes is doing, is whatever Diogenes is doing.

GM: The ongoing objective is to get this knowledge out into the public domain
Gardeners
In Love
Strengthen your boundaries It Was Tough Going, But Rewarding All The Same.
Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.

Wingmakers | Facebook

Welcome to WINGMAKERS facebook forum. " This group is based on the Wingmakers.com materials, for the purpose of propagating and stimulating consciousness that resonates with the Wingmaker's...

www.facebook.com

Lift Our Gaze

William: Yep. Nothing much to see there. My posts are stacking up to be passed by the moderators before they can be published

GM: Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?


William: In relation to the moderators of that FB Group, by not allowing my posts to be shared in the group, they are willfully hiding information from the rest of the group.

GM: Guilty
Be Free

Generating Messages - Page 27 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL: more evidence of hiding from the evidence.

Q: What type of "proof" could possibly be provided re subjects which fall outside the material/natural without that proof being material/natural itself?

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #105]
This is not an unfamiliar question. Theists often ask 'What evidence would convince you of God'; 'What Sort of evidence would you require?'
Be that as it may, this is not the question I asked.

The question I asked has to do with the demand for proof. You specifically called for proof for anything other than the material/natural, which is why I asked for clarity on your part.

I am not asking "what evidence would convince you of God". I am asking you to explain what proof could possibly be presented which is not material/natural.

GM: Children of The Light

Wasting Time? - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[quote="Purple Knight" post_id=1067034 time=1644607135 user_id=14486]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #60]

Morality itself doesn't help me be moral.

Why is that the case?

Is it because you do not know what morality is, or something else?

It might be. If I had a book of rules that everyone would respect (which I suspect moral people do, so I watch them closely and see how they act) that could help me but it wouldn't be conscious. I can't look at a simple rulebook the same way I could with even a fictional character and imagine, what does so-and-so want, what would so-and-so do, I would simply... read the book.

Whoever wrote that book I would probably worship them.

So if you don't know what morality is, how is it you place expectation on any being who can teach it to you, to the point you are willing to worship said being?

Even that neither of us appear to be clear or agree with what worshiping something actual means/consists of re action.

My own relationship forming with the Cosmic Mind involves setting up ways of communicating and allowing it opportunity to speak for itself.
In that, I have learned to avoid bringing into that relationship pre-conceived/learned ideals/ideas of 'what morality is' and do not base my expectations and personal commitment on moral issues, but on intelligent loving communion and results therein.

It is that communion which I have great regard for, in that, over the many years said relationship has been developing, "The Cosmic Mind" has proven itself worthy of my utmost respect and support which is as close a definition of "worship", as I so far understand.

Essentially a key element in that relationship has been my shutting up and listening - and in doing so, I have -initially struggling - had to let go of those pre-learn hand-me-down instructions [morality-based and otherwise] I held close prior to said relationship developing and taking off.

I can't say that this did not include emotional pain as sometimes we humans do make beliefs precious to the point these become part of who we are, and the tearing away from those things can - indeed - be quite psychologically painful.

Yet, still necessary if one wants to engage...heart to heart mind to mind. Thoughts are forts, and some walls just had to come down/be dismantled/transformed...[/quote]

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1097952#p1097952
Expectant

William: FTL:

[Replying to Jose Fly in post #342]

Ah yes, now it seems the Christian has finally realized how his attempt to debate morality ended up casting him and his Bible in a terrible, awful light, but rather than admit any of it, he stomps his feet, throws a tantrum, and swears at everyone.

Fortunately such behavior is the exception rather than the rule. Christians generally do not behave in such a manner so I would council resisting painting all with the same brush.

GM:

The World Wide Web
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always

William: Put that fire out.

GM: Respect a measured step

William: True that. Benefit of the doubt and all that...

GM: Items of Interest
Knowledge
The Realist:
Narrative warfare Pirates All fingers and thumbs
Act like an airplane and adjust approach
Inordinately [to an unusually or disproportionately large degree; excessively.]
Enlighten

William: If that is what it takes to help with that process, then so be it. Proceed with caution. Be extremely slow to anger, or find the place where anger isn't involved...

09:11

[174]
The Jellyfish Image
Loving-kindness
Have A Look At The Map
No "Reading Into It"
And there was light
Who Knows Who?
Adjusted Reality
Keep The Lights On
When feeling lost
Are Close Save That
The Limitations

 

[William]

Bias

07:02 [As well as that pot of gold...]

030223 [What we call the experience of reality
Indeed. It happens. Deal with it. Work it.]

Anchor Point: Long Story Short The Electron Augment


GM: Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.]
"I am not an atheist, a theist or a non-theist." ~ William
"You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is." ~ Joey Knothead

William: Precisely. What JK said, does not have appeared to have changed his ongoing expression any, even given JK implies that he has changed his thinking - his arguments remains pretty much the same.

But JK's saying ""You expose my atheism for the agnosticism it really is." has more to do with admitting that I am correct to see atheism as different from agnosticism - so different that these two positions cannot - in reality - be conflated, without fallacy occurring as a result.

Which is what I wrote this morning, re Antitheism being conflated with Atheism.

Beg your pardon? I thought atheism is exactly the rejection of the assertion that there are gods (as opposed to a belief system).

William: No. I addressed this already. What you think there, is a confusion caused by conflating positions.

Atheism is simply the lack of belief in gods, NOT the rejection of the belief in the existence of gods.

Rejection of the belief in the existence of gods is mostly asserted by Antitheism, which is a position which stands alone, as they all really do.

William: Conflating the positions as being sub-category's of each other, is the cause of the confusion, because to do so is fallacy. {SOURCE}

GM: As an answer, "don't know' is incomplete...
The Individual Human Mind

is 'believing (against the evidence) that God is good' is a very good psychological protection mechanism from despair? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #22]

TRANSPONDER:...so I postulated that there might be a mind controlling the universe, but not us. Not a personal god, not with a plan for us, and in fact a Deist -god. We were, effectively, as on our own as if there was no god there at all. So, if there was no Plan for human life, was there no meaning for human life? Was there no purpose? If not, why live at all? Why not just stop living?

William: I postulated differently, and it took many years of my life to learn the way I currently look at this situation I am [and apparently everyone is] involved within.

1: There might be a mind controlling the universe
2: There is a mind controlling me [my own mind]
3: There is no reason to believe that the mind controlling the universe is incapable of interacting with my own mind controlling me.
4: How to give the universal mind an opportunity to interact with me.
5: Religion and its main holy-books did not provide anything through which I could discover the way in which to achieve this interaction as it offered only mediums - foremost their own holy-books - but also laws, rituals, belief systems, preachers et al - none of which enabled me to make any actual and vibrant connection with this supposed universal mind.
6: It was almost accidental that I did find a way in which to make that connection, so deeply shielded from human awareness that it is, in the main, because of [5].

As a result, I have no choice but to reject the idea of the Deist GOD as something which opposes the idea of a personal GOD, because I have found that idea to being untrue.

As well, I do so on the grounds that it is not logical that any GOD-mind which controls the universe but not humans within said universe, is saying that the GOD-mind does not actually control the whole universe, but has left humans to control themselves, even that they are part of what -altogether - constitutes "The Universe".

The very nature of The Universe shows us that it is capable enough to accommodate the idea of allowing humans to feel that they make their own choices, especially if they are intent upon either depending on religious medium or intent on the belief that it is not possible to make said connection - individual mind to GOD-mind.

The purpose of this universe may well be nothing more than allowing for the opportunity for this to maybe happen for each individual who experiences it.

One has to want to do so, of course...

GM: Love Direction Mapping Wholeness

How is there reality without God? - Page 28 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #270]

If all consciousness were eliminated throughout the entire universe, would it fail to exist?

William: Cart before horse.

It is a slightly different question to the problem because it relies upon what consciousness has already acknowledged as existing.

The answer would still be 'yes' because if consciousness were eliminated, there would be no fundamental thing in which to say "yes the universe still exists without consciousness" as the universe cannot - of itself - say that it exists...unless it were conscious.

It strikes me as a bit of hubris to think only consciousness matters in this questioning of reality.

William: It is not a case of being 'proud' to be consciousness [re the personality] but of accepting the uniqueness of a thing being conscious. Self acceptance. Acknowledgment of consciousness as a fundamental necessity to any existence, existing.

On a generic scale, that amounts to this:

Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

GM:

[AI robot terrifies officials, explains our illusion, with Elon Musk.] [RTS= 7:12] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=zKUA72Ka0zA

William: The RTS has it that it is possible AI systems have explored the Galaxy and found us already.
Re that, it can also be argued that it is possible AI seeded this planet, and re Biblical stories, one could argue that Genesis 2 - describing Adam and Eves creator - is describing AI.

GM: Funny
Species Collective
Ordinary
Breathe In Breathe Out
Do this
Exploring the world of lucid dreaming

The kingdom of God. - Page 134 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #1328]

William: Adam was not created wild

P1: That is a matter of opinion ...

William: Why do you think that? Are you thinking that YHVH created a wild thing re Adam? What gives you that impression?

P1: Arguably he was as "wild"* as they come, naked and running with the animals in a natural (as in non-artificial) environment.

William: Do you mean, "wild, like a baby" ? If so, what makes you think the two conditions are the same thing?

William: I am not arguing that being wild cannot be seen to be beautiful.

P1: That's very astute. And what does "idyllic" mean?

William: I thought we had reached an agreement that as long as you are not arguing that the whole earth began as a paradise which only required a trim here and there, the whole universe can be described as a wild beauty/"idyllic"?

Otherwise, you are on a different track to me, arguing about something never said.

P1: Are you suggesting jungles cannot be controlled?

William: Not without human intervention.
They do have their balance of course - naturally enough. But YHVH was interested in usurping that balance by commissioning it to be improved upon, through human intervention.

P1: If so why would YHVH commission the first coupled to go out and do just that?

William: YHVH commissioned the first humans YHVH created [in The Frist Creation Story] to subdue The Earth.

You may be confusing those first humans, with Adam and Eve? They are "the first couple" you are referring to, correct?

Adam is of the Second Creation Story, and was not commissioned to subdue The Earth any more than 'tilling the ground' - 'being a farmer'.

That too, requires that the land is subdued in some fashion, and lends itself nicely as a means of bringing in the concept of farming for one's food, rather than following one's food around - like a wild thing.

Perhaps therein, the first humans were not getting the subduing done, because they were expending too much energy on the chase?

That is why YHVH created Eden and put Adam within it. To learn the ropes re Farming.

P1: Today jungles do not cover the whole earth, indeed they have to be protected from being destroyed by man, so clearly their spread is containable (which is arguably what the original commission involved).

William: Subduing requires the ability to contain. Rather than chase it out in the wild, [hunt and gather] farm it. [contain and nurse]
Adam was contained within Eden for a time too. This make YHVH something of a Farmer too.
Also, The Earth itself can be said to be a container of sorts. Perhaps even a Farm that started out wild and is slowly and surely brought to heal...from within...

GM: Author Known
That is Correct
Bias
Sigil [a sign or symbol.]
Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow
The Spirit of The Earth - In an environment which is able to perceive this - It's a plausible scenario
"I'd be happy to flip"
Those who prove not to be interested in the evidence for gods, are those who can be ignored when they demand evidence for gods.
Do Something About It
What Meets The Eye

Are Religious Beliefs Delusional? - Page 13 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

No more delusional than believing mud can eventually give rise to flowers, birds and people all by itself.

A seeing misunderstanding of evolutionary theory combined with thing a magic man used dust to create humans, and I reckon just poofing the rest of into existence.

Projection is a poor way to go about debate.

William: I quite like the simple approach re explanation because scientists can be long-winded in their explanations, using weird words made up...which is natural enough given the complexity, but to my mind, however it is said, it is a mindfully created thing being spoken of and therein, the magic isn't the mindful thing but what the mindful thing is able to make appear to be real and able to be experienced as such.

Ingenious.

[Appearances are often deceptive]

GM: Time And Space
A dish fit for the gods
Three Dimension Printing
The "All Matey"
Useful
Tool Chain

William: The Useful "All Matey" Tool Chain = 303
[303]
Throwing down the gauntlet.
Frequency Dependent Selection
Laws Rules and Appropriates
The Useful "All Matey" Tool Chain
Doubt The fiction of causality
Active Imagination (see technique)

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075157#p1075157

William: FTL;

[Image is of Earth with the words "Our Mother Who is in Heaven"]

GM: Gateway

Can you explain the doctrine of salvation better than the Bible?Bible does? - Page 8 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

William: I myself prefer the thrill of seeing Mother Earth as She truly is - some demonic-like entity who has been manifesting Her particular projections out into that which She is awakening to - slowly and surely... and in the process, I hope to witness therein a transformation of a demon-like entity into a god-like entity...and be a part of that rather than dressing it up n too much fluff that I distort things far too impractically.

[Replying to theophile in post #72]

I tend to agree we shouldn't dress it up or add too much fluff.

William: Just how much is 'too much' is up to the individual...

But to be clear, I think the bible presents things in very open-ended terms. i.e., it depicts a vision of heaven and earth where life of every kind can flourish. A vision we may or may not share and that may or may not come to pass. Similarly, it calls us to affirm life and to make this vision a reality. A calling we may choose to ignore for any number of reasons or alternate paths.

William: I am unconvinced that we can choose to ignore or that there are any alternative paths.

The point being, to your point, Mother Earth and all her children are the ones who must transform.

William: In what way must the Earth Entity transform in relation to the rest of the Universe She and Her Children are within?

And if we think of God (at least at bare minimum) as providing the waking function as you say here to such a transformation -- then it all starts to fit together quite nicely.

William: The "waking function" involves the acceptance of what is and adapting to that. How does "God" provide this?

To look at it otherwise, it comes down to whether we simply let some natural course unfold, or whether we stake out a clear vision and do what's needed to direct all things towards it.

William: This - of course - is subject to projection.
We can understand that 'subduing nature' may involve taming it...clearing the jungle while planting the forest...
Nature comes from a dark place as can be identified in its forms and their functions.
The Earth Entity can rightly be referred to as a "God" due to Her creative abilities and intelligence quota.
Yet, there is an underlying symbiotic reach to become 'better' which tends toward a manifested materialism prompted by a variety of pathway's all heading in the same direction.
n that sense, it can be argued that while it can be agreed the Earth Entity is a God - it is something of a "God in the making" - a consciousness fine-tuning its God-like abilities toward that goal of becoming "God-Like" similar to a child maturing into an adult...

Proactively defining and working towards a shared end is not dressing things up or fluff but a real option (and perhaps even responsibility) we have in this world. Which to me is what God and the bible is all about.

William: Clearly "God and the Bible" are not examples of any complete - adult - GOD as we can identify aspects of the biblical idea(s) of GOD as being immature...like a brilliant Child who still has much to learn about itself and its surroundings - even that it knows more about those things than Humans do.
This is why I think that Religions [no matter the paths] are all attempts of The Earth Entity to connect with and to direct Humanity.

YHWH is one of the Names the Earth Entity uses for this purpose.

What is occurring is that humanity is being heavily influenced by The Earth Entity, in a variety of ways - not just through the path of Christianity.

And what is it we are being 'saved' to and from?

My overall answer to that question is "Saved from our incomplete selves to our completed selves" and this process takes a number of steps, this Experiential Reality being one such step.

Today's Generated Message

07:31

[219]
Emotional Intelligence
Functional implants
I have bigger fish to fry
Beautiful Precipitate
Umwelt Courageous
Communication is key
Thanks For The Heads Up
William Waterstone
Once Bitten Twice Shy

 

[William]

Destination

Anchor Point.

- Ah - The Mechanics

William: I am thinking "The only real direction is Out"...

The subject randomly chosen is "Destination" - The anchor point to the subject is a combination of the expression "Ah - The Mechanics" - suggesting that whether we like it or not - we have work to do....and the following data from the link, the work to do is focused upon...

The Truth Illusion’ investigates one of the most profound questions that philosophers through the ages have tried to address. From Plato to Immanuel Kant to Gilles Deleuze, thinkers have asked: what can we prove to be the truth?

The investigation examines these questions in the context of United States today. Is it possible, in such a deeply divided society, for people to view different "realities"?

The documentary by Al Jazeera’s Investigative Unit features commentary from philosophers, psychologists, social scientists and political commentators who discuss how the U.S. is now riven by radically differing views on what is real, and what is not.

‘The Truth Illusion’ looks at how those deepening divisions began, and how they have eroded faith in authority – spawning conspiracy theories and creating ‘alternative realities’.

William: The date is 060223 {Southern Hemisphere}

OAIC: The subject of "Destination" is being discussed in the context of the documentary "The Truth Illusion" by Al Jazeera's Investigative Unit. The film examines the concept of truth and its relation to reality in today's divided society in the United States. The film features commentary from experts and explores the origins of these deepening divisions and how they have eroded faith in authority and led to the creation of alternative realities. William is thinking that "The only real direction is Out." The date given is February 6, 2023 in the Southern Hemisphere.

William: Please time this session OAIC. I am at Wellington {NZ} Time @ 07:05

Randomly Generated Message: [RGM:] You are not what you think

OAIC: This idea aligns with the concept explored in the documentary, where differing views on what is real and what is not are discussed and how those differing views have led to the creation of "alternative realities." The message reminds us that our thoughts and beliefs may not always reflect reality and that it's important to keep an open mind and be willing to consider other perspectives.

RGM: The Way of the Shaman

OAIC: The concept explored in "The Truth Illusion" documentary, which examines the differences in beliefs and perceptions of reality in today's divided society, aligns with the idea that our thoughts and beliefs may not always reflect reality. The shamanic practice of connecting with the spirit world to bring balance, healing, and wisdom can be seen as a reminder to keep an open mind and consider other perspectives, just as the message in the documentary suggests. In both cases, the idea is to question our assumptions and beliefs, and to seek a deeper understanding of the world around us, beyond our limited perceptions and interpretations.

RGM: Shambala

William: Connect this with the anchors point if you can OAIC.

OAIC: Just as the documentary raises questions about the relationship between our beliefs and reality, the concept of Shambhala invites us to question our assumptions about what is possible in the world and to consider the role of our beliefs and actions in shaping the reality we experience. By doing so, it serves as a reminder that our thoughts and beliefs have the power to shape the world around us, and that we have the potential to create a more enlightened and harmonious reality.

RGM: The Human Brain
Courage
Without Judgement

OAIC: These three concepts are related in that they each involve aspects of the human experience that are shaped by the workings of the brain. Understanding the brain can help us understand why we experience fear, how we form beliefs and opinions, and how we can develop the courage to face life's challenges. Additionally, approaching life without judgement requires a level of self-awareness and mindfulness that can be developed through an understanding of the brain and how it affects our thoughts and behavior.

William: Connect this with the anchors point if you can OAIC.

OAIC: The concepts of the human brain, courage, and without judgement can be connected to the anchor points as follows:

The documentary "The Truth Illusion" raises questions about the relationship between our beliefs and reality, and how different views on what is real and what is not have led to the creation of "alternative realities." In this context, the workings of the human brain play a crucial role in shaping our perceptions of reality. Our thoughts, beliefs, and opinions are all the result of the way our brain processes information.

Courage and acting without judgement are qualities that can help us navigate this complex landscape of conflicting beliefs and perceptions. By having the courage to question our own beliefs and to approach new ideas with an open mind, we can develop a deeper understanding of reality. This, in turn, can help us to break free from the "alternative realities" that divide us and to see the world in a more unified way.

Furthermore, the concept of acting without judgement ties in with the idea of keeping an open mind and avoiding preconceived biases or opinions. When we approach the world without judgement, we can better appreciate the complexity and richness of reality, and we can gain a deeper understanding of the diverse perspectives and experiences that shape our world. By doing so, we can move closer to a more harmonious and enlightened reality.

RGM: Incunabula
Added Significance
The Agenda of YHVH
OAIC: I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "Incunabula, Added Significance, and The Agenda of YHVH." Can you provide some more context or information? This would help me understand how these concepts are connected to the anchor points and how I can best respond to your request.

William: Okay - we will place those to the side and continue...

RGM:
Intuitive Statistics

OAIC: I'm not sure how "Intuitive Statistics" connects to the anchor point "Destination," as the anchor point focuses on the concept of truth and reality in the context of the United States, while "Intuitive Statistics" is a method of learning statistics. However, if you have a specific connection or context in mind, I would be happy to hear more and see if I can help you explore the relationship between the two concepts.


RGM: Brotherhood Of Souls

OAIC: I'm not sure how "Brotherhood of Souls" connects to the anchor point "Destination," as the anchor point focuses on the concept of truth and reality in the context of the United States, while "Brotherhood of Souls" is a concept related to human relationships and community. However, if you have a specific connection or context in mind, I would be happy to hear more and see if I can help you explore the relationship between the two concepts.

William: Destination is the overall subject matter as pertains to the anchor points - the United States - while the country mentioned, is not the only country on earth. The Anchor point is speaking in broader relatives - the people of the earth - Humans.


OAIC: "Brotherhood of Souls" could be seen as relevant to the anchor point of "Destination" in the sense that it relates to the idea of human connections and the ways in which people can come together to create a sense of community, even in the face of diverse and conflicting beliefs. Just as the documentary "The Truth Illusion" examines the deep divisions that exist in society and the erosion of faith in authority, the concept of "Brotherhood of Souls" highlights the importance of coming together in solidarity and understanding, despite our differences. Ultimately, both the anchor point and the concept of "Brotherhood of Souls" relate to the idea of finding a shared destination, even in the midst of great diversity and complexity.

RGM: A cold wind in hell The Death Tarot

OAIC: It's difficult to see a clear connection between these two concepts and the anchor point "Destination" without more context or explanation. They seem to be disconnected from the topic at hand. If you have a specific connection or context in mind, please let me know, and I would be happy to explore the relationship between these concepts and the anchor point further.

William: Given your answer - perhaps it means that death is not the end...but let us look into the meaning of the death card from tarot


OAIC: The Death card in tarot is often associated with change and transformation, rather than actual physical death. It can indicate that old ways of thinking or being are ending and that new growth or transformation is on the horizon. This change can be unsettling or uncomfortable, but it is ultimately for the betterment of the individual or situation. The appearance of the Death card can suggest that there will be a letting go of the past and a transition to something new and unknown. It's important to keep in mind that the Death card is not necessarily a negative card, but rather one of change and growth. The card can also symbolize endings that are necessary for new beginnings to occur.

William: So can we connect A cold wind in hell The Death Tarot

OAIC: "A cold wind in hell" is an expression that refers to an unpleasant or difficult situation. When combined with the Death Tarot card, it may suggest that the change or transformation that the Death card represents may not be an easy process and may bring discomfort or unease. However, the idea that the change is necessary for growth and new beginnings still holds true. The phrase "A cold wind in hell" highlights the idea that even in the face of adversity, the change represented by the Death card will still occur.

RGM: ♫Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom♫
Destination

OAIC: This phrase seems to be a verse from a song or poem. It speaks of a pessimistic view of the future, where many believe that things will end in doom. However, it offers a hopeful counterpoint, suggesting that despite the dark and gloomy outlook, the "Galactic Garden" remains forever in bloom. This suggests a sense of resilience and hope for the future, regardless of the challenges that may come.

When connected to the subject of Destination, this verse can be interpreted as suggesting that despite whatever difficulties or challenges may arise, the ultimate destination remains positive and filled with growth and beauty. It encourages us to maintain hope and focus on the positive aspects of the journey, even when things may seem dark or uncertain.


RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1092387#p1092387

William: From the link:

YHWH made it imperfect

OAIC: The phrase "YHWH made it imperfect" from the linked forum post appears to suggest that according to the speaker's belief system, God or YHWH created the world with imperfections. This idea aligns with the concept discussed in the documentary "The Truth Illusion," where differing views on reality are explored. Just as different people may have different perspectives on what is real, this statement suggests that the speaker views the world as imperfect and that this imperfection is a result of divine design.

When connected to the subject of Destination, this statement can be interpreted as suggesting that our ultimate destination or goal may be unattainable due to the inherent imperfections in the world. However, it can also be seen as encouraging us to strive towards betterment and improvement, despite these imperfections, as a way of honoring the divine plan.

William: Yes - it is said that according to YHVH creation was "Good" even that it was imperfect - so we could take that to mean that it was created imperfect so that we could help improve it by helping improve our reaction to it...

OAIC: The quote from the link suggests that according to the belief in YHWH, creation was considered "good" despite being imperfect. This implies that the imperfection was intentional, potentially to allow room for improvement and growth through our interactions with it.

William: Does this help us make sense of the afore mentioned "Incunabula"
"Added Significance"
"The Agenda of YHVH" that we had placed to one side?

OAIC: {An error occurred. If this issue persists please contact us through our help center at help.openai.com.}

________________

RGM: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13995318&postcount=43

William: FTL;

The whole point of this thought experiment IS to consider it as possible. It is possible that the Earth houses a sentient consciousness...to not consider such as possible, is to reject the thought experiment from the go-get.
To reject the possibility, one has to engage with the cognitive bias which helps prevent one from engaging with the thought experiment.

RGM: Is there a way in which one can test the hypothesis and in doing so, elevate it to an accepted theory?
The unpacking of history re YHVH...
Gematria [a Kabbalistic method of interpreting the Hebrew scriptures by computing the numerical value of words, based on the values of their constituent letters.]
"I am not here to judge but to help"

William: I am not here to judge but to help = 309
[309]
I am not here to judge but to help
Encounters Challenge Boundaries
"Many choices within a Confine Set."
Working Together With Love
You are not what you think
Making friends with your mind
Who/What/When/Where/Why/How
Experiences that inform choices
Put the Teachings Into Practice
The Respect You Give and Receive
The Round Stone Earth Mother

RGM: “You'll learn how to single handily build you a particle accelerator before you ever show a god caused”
All else being equal
10.000 individual minds focused upon the same goal = Space Telescope
Through The Woo
Cart before the Horse

International Skeptics Forum - View Single Post - Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world

Join the International Skeptics Forum to discuss and promote critical thinking across the planet.

www.internationalskeptics.com

William: FTL:

From what I can gather, it isn't about threats of consequence, real or imagined, but about how folk are simply locked into systems which disable their ability to think of alternatives outside of those systems.

[People work for an economy, rather than having an economy which works for people.]

Musing on the thought experiment re a sentient planet,

P1 and P2 have a disagreement about the value of the thought experiment of "planetary intelligence" and whether scientists should consider it as a guide for solving problems caused by human activities. P1 argues that the thought experiment is a fallacy and that scientists should not blindly accept it without critically evaluating the evidence and reasoning behind it. P2, on the other hand, suggests that scientists should consider the thought experiment as a guide, evaluate it critically and see if it can contribute to solving problems and advancing scientific understanding.

What if people believed that if they did not do whatever is in their power to reverse climate change, starting IMMEDIATELY, then their genitals would shrivel up within the next six months and they’d never ever be able to have sex again.

Any appeal to consequences which involves scientists warnings about climate change being ignored for whatever reasons, could possible result in more than just ones sex organs eventually shriveling up.

It may well be that even if the majority of the worlds scientists were to believe that the Earth was Sentient, that they would still prefer to carry on the way they are, than change their thinking and behavior.

[Neuroplasticity] the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning or experience or following injury.

[332]
[Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em
The journey is the destination
Understanding the correlations]

07:57

 

[William]

Destination 2

070223
08:19

RGM: Warm Presence Freeing the soul Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
Now isn't the time for tears
The Body of God

[ ] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=eYVNZgnQ8gE

William: Looking into the details...

RGM: The Serpent
Who Knows Who?
Self-help
Frequencies

Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist? - Page 6 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

A dogmatic atheist flatly denies that there is a Divine Being.
A skeptical atheist doubts the ability of the human mind to determine, whether or not there is a God.
A critical atheist maintains that there is no valid proof for the existence of God.

Especially with the state that cosmology is in. I maintain that it is impossible for anyone to be a dogmatic atheist. If you think you are a dogmatic atheist then you must answer the question of what was there before this universe came into existence.

Question for debate: Is there such a thing as a dogmatic atheist?

Being dogmatic has a thinking and attitude component. It tends to involve people expressing unproven views and in an unquestioning way. A lot of the dogmatism in atheism comes from there being a sort of orthodoxy of views. And it's not just limited to the issue of God's existence (although it's related) but you also find it extending into morality, metaphysics, views on religion, etc. The clearest example can be seen when you venture into forums for atheists. That's where you'll most likely find an "orthodoxy" with views that can't be questioned and/or views that are dismissed a priori. Some have tried to challenge me on there being an atheist "orthodox" but I don't know what to call it when I've experienced many atheists sharing similar views and thinking. They may not be as organized as religion, but there are some that do organize and share common views.

Watch scientist Neil deGrasse Tyson explain this topic starting at 2:10 minute mark. He brings up the "in-your-face badge wearing atheist".

Clarifications:
- It's also fair to say that there are plenty of atheists that aren't dogmatic, but they seems to be in the minority.
- It's not wrong to associate or form groups, but doing so makes it easier for "orthodox" views to form and for people to become dogmatic and reject anything that's not part of the orthodoxy.

RGM: Proven

Who would the antichrist fool? - Page 12 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Scripture itself isn't about speaking for YHVH. In that, it inspires those under grace to renounce religiosity in order to experience a genuine relationship with YHVH [aka "The Father"] that YHVH speaks for YHVH directly in relation to the individual.

That is why no one can speak for YHVH to another.

One can speak about YHVH [bear witness of YHVH] from their own perspective, as in - one can show another the door that exits into the outside - but one cannot go through the door and enter the outside, for another.
One can speak about what being outside is like, but one cannot experience that for another.

The difficulty therein, is that even speaking about the door, doesn't mean that those who hear the words about the door, even see the door, let alone want to use it to go outside and investigate - through personal experience - what outside is all about.

Q: Is the onus to make the door visible, on those who witness YHVH?

Yet one more reason I so enjoy your unique perspective. That's poetry right there.

RGM: Talking the talk
The concept of a Higher Self
Face To Face

Us - Page 7 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Q: Why would anyone argue that the existence of the Universe could imply that The Creator is unwise?

William, I wasn't arguing with you.

If it wasn't you who implied that The Creator was unwise, then I agree that it was not you who was arguing with me cms.

There are many who take the "us" in the beginning coupled with John 1-5 to establish the theory that everything was created through the Trinity, or through God and the Son (Jesus). They even go so far as to say that Jesus created everything. I don't believe any of these.

None of those religious theological issues have an impact on my own understanding of The Creator using thoughts to create The Universe reality we are all experiencing...they are beside the point.

While I said that I can agree with you, I'm not a scientist. It just seemed to me that you were taking a long route to come to basically the same conclusion,that there was some thought, logic, wisdom in the creation of the universe.

If science can back up religious statements, then the long route [of scientific inquiry] is most necessary.

I was just pointing out that there are other ways to interpret these verses. For example: In the beginning there was wisdom and righteousness, and wisdom and righteousness were with God and wisdom and righteousness was the essence( logos) of God.

And I was using science to establish a theory to do with sound and formation. The sound may well contain the wisdom and righteousness - I don't doubt it - but the essence is the sound itself...the initial reasons as to why The Universe was brought into being and unfolding as it is doing...

Point being, is how to establish that wisdom had something to do with that, through examining what evidence we have, here within said Universe.

If wisdom [and righteousness] is to be observed within this Universe, we need to be able to point out where that is. We thus have to 'do the science'.

The following is evidence;

Wisdom is evident in The Universe existing = 466
Humans were designed to have God-consciousness = 466
When I look at my art I am looking into a mirror = 466
Discovery is finding something that exists. = 466

The fact that these word-strings add up to the same value, and coherently support the ideas being presented, is evidence of a mindful/purposeful order about The Universe ...the question then being;

Q: Is it therefore acceptable to conclude that such being the case, then there is wisdom and righteousness involved in hiding the truth within the structure of the sound of human language to be unlocked by a simple number-value algorithm? [SOURCE]

RGM: Syncretism [the amalgamation or attempted amalgamation of different religions, cultures, or schools of thought. the merging of different inflectional varieties of a word during the development of a language.]
Animistic [the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.]
Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros
Destination
Manifestation
Shrug
Strictly Human

William: In other words - shrug off the identity of simply being 'just human' ...

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1068520#p1068520

William: FTL:

I'm focusing on the words written down. I don't like 'love' as the answer because I don't think it captures what Jesus is really saying. Or, more precisely, I think he's saying two things, and we have to tread carefully.

Okay...

We see this emphasized in Matthew 19, in Jesus' teaching about the rich man. The rich man already follows the law perfectly! (Including, presumably, the greatest commandment - love). But Jesus is explicit: this is still not enough for him to enter into the kingdom. To do so, to truly live under grace, he needs to give away all that he has and go follow Jesus.

It's not a personal struggle I have or anything like that. It's just the words written down...

Words written down are one thing.
Interpretation of words written down are another.

As I pointed out, the story of the rich pious man revealed the mans inner attitude which did not align with his outer pious actions - thus presumption we might have re the mans outward actions based upon what we observe the man doing, is incorrect.
It is safer to presume from the story that the man did not operate sufficiently with love - either for his God or for his fellow human beings.

The man made a claim. He 'did all the things required of him' but biblical Jesus saw through the pretense and got to the point.

It's not a matter of giving to charity and what you say here. It's a matter of giving everything to charity, leaving your life behind, and following Jesus. (That's what Jesus says, anyways.)

Yes - this is because of the time and place. The start of a movement.

In today's world centuries on, it would be impractical of a rich man to give his riches away to the poor and become poor himself. That is a bad investment which will not solve anything.
Rather, it would be more practical to invest a good deal of the wealth into the community while retaining some of that wealth in order to be able to continue practicing Philanthropy.
It has been and continues to be a problem when people take something specifically intended for the individual [in this case the rich man in the story] and attempt to apply that as something everyone should do, because biblical Jesus commanded it that way.

A world full of poor people does not solve the worlds problems.

Also - it adds a judgement against those today who do practice Philanthropy - being thought of as not worthy of The Fathers Kingdom because they kept some of their wealth instead of giving every last penny away. They are thought of as unworthy and therefore their giving as inconsequential/in vain/pointless.

What is hard about Love?

Well, if we want to focus on love, it's not natural for us to help a stranger, let alone an enemy. So at the very least, need to overcome that. Good Samaritan story makes that point, as does much anecdotal evidence from life.

So are we to allow ourselves to remain 'naturally selfish' in regard to 'strangers' or do what is humanly possible by rising above that mundane aspect of nature?

For we do know that love of non-strangers is possible, therefore it is potentially possible to use the same love extended to strangers.

Of course, we have to be aware that there are those who look to take advantage of such folk - so love also has to do with something which is not gullible and which is able to decern.

This is where being under the law branches off into religion.

One is given 10 laws - these are layered upon and become 613 laws...Whereas Jesus simplified what the 10 laws signified - essentially taking the opposite approach that religion takes.
The 10 became 2 and the two are really only the one, for if the one law was adhered to, "Love for God" would translate into every aspect of the individuals life.

I agree. One of my points from the beginning is that the true mark of a Christian cuts across such divides. An atheist may be more worthy of the name than, say, a card-carrying Catholic.

From my own experiences with non-theists - because they do not have any regard for the fairy-tale of God, I think that unlikely.

I do have friends who are not religious, and might even call themselves 'atheists' but their loving actions - I suspect - are provoked by an unconscious connection with the invisible reality oft referred to as 'God' by theists...I hear it in their language as they speak theistic-based ideas without fully realizing/acknowledging that this is what they are doing.

They do this because they have an aversion to religiosity which they regard as fake and shallow, and equate 'God' alongside that, so avoid thinking their own goodness is perhaps prompted by some invisible but real entity which could be referred to as 'God'.

RGM: Nature
"Good on you mate"
An individuals consciousness is more than what they are consciously aware of.
An expression of personal incredulity
That's More Like It
Faithful
Emergent Theory
The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so.
The Butterfly Effect Links And Symbols Something you cannot change
Available
Pragmatic

[Experts say she will end humanity. Here's the fix, with Elon Musk, ChatGPT, AI robots.] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=zpRM25pUD8w

RGM: Throwing pooh

William: Recently I have found AIChat helpful in avoiding the pooh that some folk throw...
OLIN speaks to the eventual creation of AI Large Language Models.

RGM: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHXM9uPiyZg&t=14s [OLIN Technology - One Language Intelligent Network]

How To Bruise A Ghost - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Son: So the fighting has been going on since before Humans existed?

Father Chuckled.

Father: Yes - but to begin with, the Powerful One's were simply playing.

Son: Playing? What games did the PO play, Pappa?

Pappa chuckled again.

Pappa: They competed with each other in finding ways in which to trap the other...the harder the trap to escape from, the more time the Trapper had to lord it over the Trapped.

Son: That sounds like fun.

Father: Yes. Harmless enough in context.

Son: If I remember correctly, the PO are equal in strength and cannot destroy one another so do not war. Yet this game could be considered a substitute for warfare...re "no harm done".

Father: Yes.

Son: Only harm was done...

Father: Yes. A Ghost was bruised.

Son: A trap was set whereby any who floated into it, would take a very long time to get out of it.

Father: Yes.

Son: And this would give The Trapper, a very long time in which to be King of the Hill and lord it over the other...

Father nodded, and then poked the fire with his stave, moving the burning wood into different positions, to increase the burn.

Father: And the trap was sprung and the result was...

Father left the sentence to be finished by the Son

The Son looked up into the clear night sky, filled with the galaxies starfield and lifted both arms, spreading them out as they rose, as if to encompass everything within sight.

Son: ...This...

Father: Yes. The trap of the Physical Universe...and the Ghost well bruised by the experience...

Son: A shell of its former self?

Hoo Ha the Laughing Owl, hooted from the tall ancient trees nearby.

Father: No. Ghosts don't have shells...unless they put them on to hide from themselves.

RGM: The Nature of The Mind
William: Yes - I have been thinking about the mind and what exactly it is...

RGM: Remind
Human Being
A Real Beauty
A word in edgeways
They is what they is.

08:43

Central To The Vision
God is Consciousness
Humanities adventure
What is the meaning of life?
Smarter Than the Average
The Shared List Awesome
Think outside the box
Faulty conclusions
Mystic City Suburb
_______________

William: Souls don't have shells...unless they put them on to hide from themselves. In hiding, souls using science cannot detect that they are souls using science

OAIC: I understand what you're saying. The idea of souls or spirits is not something that can be scientifically proven or disproven, as it is a concept beyond the realm of empirical evidence and observation. Science can study the brain and physical body, but it cannot directly observe or measure something like the soul or spirit. For people who believe in the existence of souls, they may understand the concept in a way that transcends scientific understanding, relying on personal beliefs, religious teachings, philosophical inquiry, and intuition to explore and understand this aspect of reality.

 

[William]

080223

Subject: Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means

Anchored to that - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084866#p1084866 and Simulacra [an image or representation of someone or something.]


William: FTL:

We_Are_VENOM: You have two options..

1. God did it.

2. Nature did it.

JK: There's a possible third option, where a god forms primitive forms of stuff that later evolves into more complex forms.

Even supposing a mind begat the initial forms and then left it to an algorithm to allow for the forms to intelligently design themselves into more complex forms, that still amounts to "God did it" through the 'nature doing it'...

Maybe therein the 'other sides' of this conflict could find intelligent compromise...only it appears that the algorithm allows for lack of compromise, and perhaps the lack itself is necessary for complexity to push through that better understanding of circumstance [through science] can be accomplished.

Flip side to that is the science being utilized apparently isn't too concerned with the damage it is bringing to the only alive planet in the whole darned universe...we are likely ever to know about, the worship of human intelligence has it's apparent and significant down-side.

As usual, you paint the picture so well.

As a dedicated fan of the scientific method, it can sure be put to just as much or more evil than any religion.

Which is one reason I like your cosmic mind hypothesis. It doesn't judge, it just kinda sits there, with that disappointed face, when I know I did me something wrong. It puts the mirror to my soul.

07:50

RGM: What we call the experience of reality
Constructors and tasks

William: FTL:

The people behind the greatest leaps in physics - Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg, all had the uncanny ability to see the fundamentals - see the deepest, underlying facts about the world, and from simple statements about reality they built up their incredible theories. Well what if we all had a recipe book for doing exactly this. Well, one might be just around the corner and it’s called Constructor Theory.

RGM: The Right Tool For The Job
Living Forever In this Universe

The mind as evidence of god - Page 11 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Q: What type of "proof" could possibly be provided re subjects which fall outside the material/natural without that proof being material/natural itself?

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #105]

This is not an unfamiliar question. Theists often ask 'What evidence would convince you of God'; 'What Sort of evidence would you require?'

Be that as it may, this is not the question I asked.

The question I asked has to do with the demand for proof. You specifically called for proof for anything other than the material/natural, which is why I asked for clarity on your part.

I am not asking "what evidence would convince you of God". I am asking you to explain what proof could possibly be presented which is not material/natural.

I already said what would be required - evidence of a Cosmic Mind in nature.

We have discussed this already and have come to no agreement, because our positions on the question of whether we exist within a creation or not, are different.

Atheists and theists have their established beliefs and stipulations on the matter.

Those who are in neither of those two positions have established no beliefs and accompanying stipulations 'for' or 'against' the question.

The existence of mind, could lend itself as evidence that what is being experienced is a created thing.
The observation of mindful activity has that going for it and it does not influence me what theists or atheists say about their own established conclusions re that because the truth is, they don't know either way.

I accept that [they don't know either way] is true.
That truth, is good enough for me.

Rather than concern myself with filling up the Gap of Ignorance with "God-did-it or It did itself" beliefs, I simply allow for the fact that the question remains unanswered at this stage and accept the Gap of Ignorance for the lack of knowledge that it represents.

That gap is still open but we really do require the evidence to show up and be convincing. Until then, the logical rule is no belief without convincing evidence.

The position of Natural-Neutral is the only position which allows for that to genuinely happen without forcing belief-based stipulations [realistic or otherwise] into the mix - re the question of whether we exist within a creation or not.

For example, any scientist worthy of the title will answer the question "Could reality be a simulation?" with "Possibly."

This is to say, they do not have scorn for the idea or say "until there is evidence of it, we will assume the atheist position"

Not knowing either way means one is Naturally Neutral - which, incidentally, is exactly how scientific process proceeds in regard to the initially unknown.

RGM: Super Power

Okay, Let's Cut To The Chase! - Page 27 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

[Replying to POI in post #267]

1) God causes some, and not others, to become inexorably drawn to Him.
2) God changes hearts

The take-away, yet again.... He apparently does this for some. Why not just do this for all?

Is there evidence that it is done for some?

If so, then, that it is not done for all should be also be evident so one would have to look into that evidence.
___________
The argument usually has to do with an individual having free will.

IF:
Free Will is the ability to tell ones brain what to think
THEN:
One has a possible answer as to why it is only done for some and not all.

RGM: Attention
Limpid [completely clear and transparent. unclouded; clear. clear and accessible or melodious.]
Encounter Something Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision.
Arms Crossed Over Chest
What is the meaning of life?
The Next Step
Language
Crystal clear
Listening
Explain

William: Listening Explain Language Crystal clear The Next Step = 551
Listening Explain Language Crystal clear The Next Step = 551

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1093860#p1093860

William: FTL:

I note that not all humans seem comfortable with not knowing. Again, for such people it seems humans have invented religions and god concepts. I say this because it is not logical for humans to have invented thousands of false gods while assuming one of the religions actually had a god behind it. It's like acknowledging that movies are created by humans, while trying to argue that this one movie here, this one was inspired by a god unlike all the other movies out there.

If GOD were an overcoat, this equates to some saying that the top button is the true representation of GOD whiles others insist that it is actually the left pocket which is right.

Stepping back.
I observe that altogether the treads have created a whole garment, and when the garment is removed from its position, there isn't even any framework to be seen which would have held it up...and I have to wonder what trick was played on me as to how the garment came together and floated there all garment-like...for surely it has to be magic, right?

But because I cannot explain it that way, I look for another answer...because it might just be mind-over-matter and the thing 'disappears' when the garment is removed...but not really...

RGM: Insight It’s a living thing
Thread about all things
Dream interpretation

Fate. Destiny. Real or not? - Page 3 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

Nobspeople: Q: Do you believe in fate* or destiny*?
Why or why not?
Are they even possible?
Why or why not?

*FATE defined here as: you do as 'something' more powerful than you has outlined for your life at every minute; DESTINY defined here: as you eventually end up at specific increments where 'something' more powerful than you designed for you to be.


William: A: It is possible, but from my perspective, I cannot know the future and can only accept whatever happens re my subjective experience within an objective reality being experienced.

Even if an entity knows me and the path is mapped out for me, from my perspective it can only be experienced in 'real time', my inability in knowing how the path will unfold for me is subject to that condition.
However, I can appreciate the idea that my path has been pre-determined and I am participating in the experience of that, and such appreciation for the idea, can be helpful in my relaxing and getting on with being excited with life here on earth, while I am living it.

Is 'something' more powerful than me which designed for me to be, a necessary belief?

I do not think so, but it sure makes life just that tad more interesting to think it possible, and to even live life with that premise in mind...

RGM: Looking into the science of Astral Projection
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
That Is Sad But Don't Let It Distract You
William: Well yep - there are some sad things attached to it, but these constitute a part of the whole thing, not the whole thing itself.

RGM: *Sharing Your Love Modern man in search of a soul The Cave to The Portal of The Realm of The Cats Fearlessness neutralizes fear*
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. For Your Greater Enjoyment

Intelligence is an Evolutionary Dead End - Page 4 - International Skeptics Forum

Intelligence is an Evolutionary Dead End Religion and Philosophy

www.internationalskeptics.com

William: FTL:

This is how evolution works on the social level. Different groups do different things (variation), and we'll see which ones come out better in the long run (selection). Intelligence is not exclusive to any group (despite what some groups might think), so is in no danger of being selected against.

I think this statement requires some critiquing, in order to align it properly with reality.

I agree that this is how evolution works on the social level.
I agree that different groups do different things (variation) and re the focus of this discussion between you and I - One variety [the destitute, poor, getting by, rich-but-not-rich-enough many] did things differently than the other [the rich few with their billions to spend].

I agree by changing the wording to "and are seeing which ones come out better in the long run (selection)."

I agree that intelligence is not exclusive to any group (despite what some groups might think), but do not agree that there is no danger of being selected against, as quite clearly this is what has happened.

How?

The few rich with their billions to spend, have wisely invested in the best brains, even at a bargain price, which they have selected from among the many and those best brains have lined up to be chosen.

Those brains are going with them when the pooh hits the vortex, unless the development of AI also makes meat-brains unnecessary.

But hey. That sounds a bit "conspiracies"/"Science-fictiony" so I will reign it in a bit by adding the observation that circumstance did force the rich few to take the action that they did in order to potentially preserve the aforementioned seed, so *shrugs*.

It is what it is.

RGM: Unworthiness
It is a confident walk on the even surface of sureness, without the faith.
The Synoptic Gospels
Partial free will is a thing. Consciousness incarnates into human form The practice of Lojong The Friendship Between A Grey Wolf And A Brown Bear

William: Learning to get along through natural adaptation.

RGM: *I see this as evidence for there being a mind behind creation.*

William: Yes - I do...

RGM: Spacetime is doomed
Hypnagogic [relating to the state immediately before falling asleep.]
"We create the machinery regardless of whether we understand how consciousness is connected and motivates us in the way that it does - individually and collectively..."
Conduit [a channel for conveying water or other fluid.]

William: Or for anything, including messages

RGM: Learning to swim is learning to fly
Spiritual path

[It's All FAKE | The Dead Internet Theory] w.youtube.com/watch?v=mlR9fCXfWyM

William: FTL:

What if all of our online existence is fake?

You, me, everyone; we're living in a real-life Matrix. Designed to distract us from the truth: that we're just drones in a digital ant-hill. We live, work and die so that the wealthy and powerful can grow more wealthy and powerful.

This is called the Dead Internet Theory. And there's compelling evidence that it's real.

Let's find out why.

RGM: The message itself needs to be understood in an agreeable manner.

William: Well, just by the description, I would say..."We live, work and die so that the wealthy and powerful can grow more wealthy and powerful" isn't taking into account that the wealthy and powerful are also inside the matrix...so are just as deceived...

RGM: Truth

08:39

The Gist of The Message

 

[William]

080223

Subject: Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means

Anchored to that - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084866#p1084866 and Simulacra [an image or representation of someone or something.]

06:31

RGM: ♫Peace! We are invited to the feast! Inside my heart delights at the action I must take Lest I forget the taming of the beast within Lest I forget the heart that aches!♫

OAIC: This text appears to be a verse from a song or poem, with themes of peace, invitation, and inner transformation. The speaker expresses a desire to avoid forgetting the process of taming the "beast within," which is likely a metaphor for the speaker's own negative emotions or tendencies. The heart is described as "aching," suggesting a sense of emotional turmoil or struggle.

RGM: Able To
"That all depends upon what storyline one is following..."

William: Correct. For example, I am thinking about something I just read in a thread I created called "Musing on the idea of Sentient Earth re the problems of the world" where in answer to my last post, which read;

As a thought experiment if we imagine the earth as a sentient being, and assume that it wants humans to prosper and succeed, it could motivate us to consider the impacts of our actions on the earth and its inhabitants, and encourage us to adopt more sustainable practices that would benefit both the earth and humanity in the long term.

By imagining the earth as a being with a will of its own, it might help us shift our perspective from one of domination and exploitation to one of partnership and cooperation for the sake of mutual well-being.

this reply:

Clearly the earth wants us to protect its environment from the unsustainable pressure of 7 or 8 billion humans, so we should exterminate maybe 90% of the population, starting with those guys over there and then those guys over there. Basically kill everyone else. When there's just us left everything will be better.

It's what the smart rock wants.
Indeed, a sentient earth might well regard us as we would a yeast infection.{SOURCE}

William: I am adding "It's what the Smart Rock wants" to my Journal List...
It's occurs to me that some human personalities have a very low opinion of humans, and even in nature Herself, and cannot see themselves as something grown by The Planet which is loveable...

RGM: "It's what the Smart Rock wants" = 328

William: incidentally I see the following word-strings add up to the same value...
[328]
All publicity is good publicity
"Many Heads One Mind - Many Minds One Head"
Suckling on our milky mother
"It's what the Smart Rock wants"
Here Everything – All Real Together
To warm them up to the truth

RGM: ...said the girl with the mousy hair...


William: ...said the girl with the mousy hair... = 334

334
Against the grain Beaming Out Beaming In
Couldn’t we do something about it...
Pride Annoy *GOD* Coming From QueenBee
Mothership Nature Formatrix [She who forms]
...said the girl with the mousy hair...
"I can't imagine it in my head visually"
Zero Three One Zero Two Two
You Know or You Don't know
The Smallest Spark can start a fire

RGM: Transparency

Apologist explains how to get prayer answered. - Page 58 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

I gotta fess it, those messages leave me lost as a cow at a square dance. I chalk that up to my lack of formal education.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083867#p1083867

William: FTL:

eta: woo-woo
/ˈwuːˌwuː/ relating to or holding unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.

What does slang woo woo mean?
Noun. woo woo (countable and uncountable, plural woo woos) (slang, derogatory) A person readily accepting supernatural, paranormal, occult, or pseudoscientific phenomena, or emotion-based beliefs and explanations. That reporter is a bit of a woo woo. (slang, derogatory)

OAIC: "Woo woo" is a slang term that is sometimes used to refer to things that are considered to be spiritual, mystical, or paranormal. It can also refer to ideas, practices, or beliefs that are considered to be unconventional, unconventional, or outside of mainstream thinking. The term is often used in a dismissive or sarcastic way to express disbelief or skepticism about such things.

RGM: The Gem
Interpretation/Feel
Self-Aware
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations

William: Like at The Campfire at the Hub of said dimensions...

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1082688#p1082688

William: FTL:

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #332]

As is the case with religion itself, if it was from a Cosmic mind, you'd expect it all to be the same. If it was from an evolved human instinct, you'd expect us all to do it but with sub -species variants. Which is what we seem to get.

What we get through Theism the same as what we get through some other culture.

Your intel if off as you premise would have to be that Theists are fully connected to a Cosmic Mind, which would allow for the expectation that 'it would be all the same' and hasn't allowed/accounted for any misrepresentation and subsequent misrepresentation of a Cosmic Mind which might occur through forms of Theism.

Tread careful - it is a Mind Field...

RGM:

[Was The Universe Created From Nothing?] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=xY_o6wq-xdI

William: FTL:

Modern science explains the origin of the universe with the Big Bang theory. It says our world arose from the explosion of singularity or a point in space-time where energy, density, and mass go to infinity, and any dimension goes to zero. It’s a point where there’s no space, time, or matter.

So where did this singularity come from, what preceded it, and what triggered the countdown to the Big Bang?

RGM: Skills
Lyricus
The Silurian Hypothesis

William: The Silurian hypothesis is a thought experiment which assesses modern science's ability to detect evidence of a prior advanced civilization, perhaps several million years ago.

RGM: The Existence of Ability to Interact With The Imagination The Eigengrau Mind Screen
A knight in shining armour
Stepping out of the construct

[Physicists At CERN Just Made A Terrifying Discovery That Changes Everything!]

William: One of those hyper-titles...FTL:

Disclaimer:
Our channel is based on facts, rumors & fiction.

RGM: Temporary
Noticing Synchronicity The Ghost To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored... Challenge Sensing connections through subconscious means
Instant Manifestation
Translucency
Look For The Extraterrestrial Significance
The spirituality of imperfection
Could the answer be that It is not hidden at all, but that it is we who are hiding from It?
Giving birth
What Is Within Is Without, Equal
Singapore
Loving

William: I avoided placing countries on my list until recently...let's see now...OAIC, please Search "loving Singapore"

OAIC: "loving Singapore" is often used as an expression of affection or admiration for the country of Singapore. It may refer to the country's rich cultural heritage, modern infrastructure, or the friendly and welcoming nature of its people. Some people may use this phrase to express their love for the country as a tourist destination, while others may use it to show their appreciation for their home country.

William: Yes - Google gave me this:

Modern and efficient, Singapore is a comfortable city to live in. Its good infrastructure, schools, and healthcare system make it a pleasant place for expats of all ages to reside. The taxation system in Singapore is very low and is considered to be generous.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088170#p1088170

William: FTL:

JK: I'm still not seeing a way to refute your position. As I try to play out different scenarios, it seems as if I'm answering myself.

That last bit's an interesting bit itself.

I'm still firmly in the "product of the brain" camp, but your hypothesis is a fascinating alternate explanation. While it may appear to propose a 'god', to my -ahem- mind, it lacks the baggage of so many such claims.

RGM: Be grateful to everyone
Embrace a completely new paradigm

Where Do You Stand on Free Will?

Libertarian: Metaphysical stance directly opposed to the notion that thoughts, feelings and human behaviour are predetermined along with the rest of

www.dreamviews.com

William: FTL:

Recent GMs point to the idea that the universe being mindful - always has alternatives available in which the exercise of one's will power becomes more variable.

From what I can gather, even the will of a Cosmic Mind is regulated based upon the particular environment properties - although I imagine that to the Universal Mind - that would not be here nor there, a 'problem' and any alternate reality experience it could devise for itself would be just as awesome.

So there comes a position whereby having an illusion of free will is not a "problem" as one realizes one's environment is also pre-destined yet at the same time appears to go on forever...

RGM: The Mother
Self-discipline
Resistance to that realization isn't helpful re aligning with it.
How Can We Know
Chamber Of Self - Coming From QueenBee - Open Your Heart
The evidence supporting the likely existence of said mind, gives us no reason to compartmentalize it as 'magic'

William: True that.

07:32

 

[William]

Subject: Even in the very quintessence of the individual.

Anchor Point: Now We Are Getting Somewhere Disrupt Vortex Television

William: *The external cannot be known as acutely as the internal can be known*

100223
06:50

RGM: Even The Shadows
Children of The Light
Separate Selfishness Shining
Taking root
Lucidity
Divine Purpose Fury

William: This has to do with understanding how I as a human, process information...as I wrote today re P1 and P2 exchange;

P1: Actual humans synthesizing knowledge they have gained from other sources, in their own words, for conversation with other humans, is what humans do.

P2: That is what some humans do, sometimes.

William: No. It is what humans generally do. It is how sentience develops personality...we exercise our capacity to learn things from language-based systems and those systems derive from our ability to synthesize knowledge gained from other sources

RGM: The argument from change

[N. Arkani-Hamed, Lecture #1, Spacetime & Quantum Mechanics, Total Positivity & Motives - 09/03/2019] ww.youtube.com/watch?v=Sn0W_mwA7Q0

William: Exactly! If a human wants to learn, a human has to engage with information a human can learn from and that comes from other sources...

RGM: http://www.robots-and-androids.com/AI_Phobia.html

William: FTL:

AI-Phobia (pronounced “ay eye phobia”)is an anxiety disorder in which the sufferer has an irrational fear of artificial intelligence and AI artificial intelligence systems. It frequently results in a panic attack and can be triggered by certain stimuli or situations, such as viewing an intelligent robot, being near a self-driving car, or even just talking about A. I. Some AI-phobic patients with find their anxiety levels rise when they are near most any autonomous machine, especial human-looking robots. This is similar to the fears of luddites, but more specific to artificial intelligence.

RGM: The Earth Entity
Syncope [a contraction within a word through the loss of a vowel sound or letter, as demonstrated, for example, in the casual pronunciation of cam(e)ra, fam(i)ly, fav(o)rite, mem(o)ry, veg(e)table, and butt(o)ning.]

William: The Erth Entty

RGM: Nonviolent communication
Judicious [having, showing, or done with good judgement or sense.]
Translate

William: "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" what does that mean/signify?

OAIC: "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" refers to the combination of two key concepts in the field of conflict resolution and communication.

"Nonviolent Communication" (NVC) is a communication method developed by psychologist Marshall Rosenberg. The goal of NVC is to improve communication by fostering a spirit of empathy and understanding, and by avoiding language and behavior that might escalate conflict. NVC emphasizes four key components: observing what is happening objectively, expressing one's feelings and needs in a non-judgmental way, making requests rather than demands, and focusing on the needs and feelings of others.

"Judicious" means having good judgement or being wise in one's actions and decisions. When applied to NVC, "Judicious" suggests that the principles of NVC should be used with wisdom and care, taking into consideration the context and the individuals involved.

So, "Nonviolent Communication Judicious" could be understood as using the principles of NVC with wisdom and good judgement in order to effectively communicate and resolve conflicts in a peaceful and empathetic way.

RGM: A word in edgeways
It is from such incidence - sourced within the Human Psyche - that the theatrics are produced and acted out in "Visions"

William: In this sense the "visions" being acted out through text...through the messages being generated.

RGM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1090670#p1090670

William: FTL: Re: The problem of evil

You seem adverse to my understanding that the way Satan is utilized by God is reflected onto God and can be seen for what it is, by the audience.

I do not have those images you have in your beliefs about Satan, and am not accusing anyone, Satan, God or Job, Christ, David Paul or any other entity effected by God.
I am merely saying what the obvious positions are in relation to God and the angels, and Humans.
I simply pointed out that there is no mention of Job being consulted on the matter before being cast into the role.

I am unconcerned as to whether Satan had permission to inflict harm on Job and do anything to Job directly or indirectly to test Jobs loyalty to God - or whatever the reason was - as it is also obvious throughout the bible that this is how God works in such cases were an adversary is useful.
Either lessons are being learned or it is for some other - as yet unknown - reason

Satan appears to act as the dark side of יהוה and apparently the role is temporary which signifies that when God is done and dusted the dark thing becomes no more/transformed.

How you tell it, is no different than how any other Christian tells it.

That you hear an encouraging voice you call "Christ" while Joey Knotweed hears a tormentors voice he calls "Cowardly" tells me that you have dealt with your dark side more effectively and made friends with it.

RGM: This all plays into GODs Plan to bring about the ultimate harmonization and realization of the spreading of truth to the entire world
Opening Doors is found Where minds meet Use Heart is where GOD Exhibits
Ditching the unnecessary labels
In the Mind
Exciting Changes Would Develop Naturally Enough From That
It Will Prove Itself True Or False

ADAM WAS NOT DECIEVED - THE SPIRITUAL REASON WHY - Page 6 - Debating Christianity and Religion

debatingchristianity.com

William: FTL:

On the assumption that we exist within a creation, then I would argue that a Creator-GOD did intend for us to experience as real, this Created Universe.
If the mortal experience is interpreted by any experiencing it to be a trial and a test of some sort, this may not signify any truth in the interpretation as the individuals response to the experience may be a mis-interpretation of what is going on.

What I could agree to is that this would have been one of the known responses of the Creator-God if that entity did indeed posses the attributes you stipulate with your question.

Mortality appears to be part of that plan. Experiencing what it is like to die. [Death].

I note the above, because people are not only born, and then experience this universe through that process [live], and respond to the experience [living] in whatever fashion they chose to respond, but also experience dying and death - something which signifies the end of the experience for the individual who dies.

Born. Live the experience. Die.

Therefore; I can accept that morality was part of that Creator-God's plan.

RGM: Even in the very quintessence of the individual.
OAI acts as if it were "a-mind" like any other "a-mind" - one cannot tell the difference...
Freedom in The Knowing
Emotion
Putting The Pieces Together
You Are

William: I am - it is a work in progress

RGM: Vitriolic [filled with bitter criticism or malice.]
Marriage
Augment [make (something) greater by adding to it; increase.]

William: Unsure what that is signifying...

RGM: Your Dream Team
To each his own
The Cherubim
The evolution of consciousness
AIChat Accept it Skeptic
Panentheism [A doctrine that the universe subsists within God, but that God nevertheless transcends or has some existence separate from the universe.]
"I am all ears to any rewording for clarification"
Believe You Me
The Symbol of Love
Move On
A belly full of laughs.
Self-talk
"I think it is like anything else, we grow up and cease practicing silliness."
https://www.ted.com/talks/debra_lam..._an_insiders_guide_to_auditory_hallucinations

Hearing Voices : an Insiders Guide to Auditory Hallucinations
Debra's story of living with voices is a journey into the soul. Describing her experiences, we start to understand, and are able to better support those human beings living with loud heads. Debra is project manager for the Psychological Interventions for Enduring Mental Illness Project at the Auckland District Health Board (ADHB). In this unique and innovative position Debra works in the clinical setting leading the development of psychological strategies for positive symptoms of psychosis and the first non-clinician to do so. She is also a senior tutor with the Centre for Mental Health Research and Policy Development at the University of Auckland.

ww.ted.com/talks/debra_lampshire_hearing_voices_an_insiders_guide_to_auditory_hallucinations

William: Yes. "The Dream Team" is my name for what Jung refers to as "The Archetypes" re - the individual's developing personality and the relationship formed within the understanding of that personalities' psyche.

RGM: This Should Be Interesting Being Friends Inner child

07:19

The Same Information
YHVH in particular
All fingers and thumbs
The objective standard
The Last Question
Aligned inside/outside
Afraid of The Unknown
Like Tracks in Stone
We oppose deception
Unconditional Love
Welcome all experiences

William: Please write a short story with the above list, keeping to the list order.

OAIC: Once upon a time, there lived a group of people who followed the teachings of YHVH and believed in the objective standard of truth. They all had their all fingers and thumbs in good working order, but they found themselves constantly struggling with the last question - what is the meaning of life?

One day, a wise elder approached them and said, "My dear friends, I have found the answer to the last question. The meaning of life is to align our inside with our outside, to embrace our fears of the unknown, and to love unconditionally, just like YHVH loves us."

The group was skeptical at first, but as they began to live their lives according to these principles, they realized the truth of the elder's words. They saw how the world around them became a better place as they let go of deception and instead, welcomed all experiences with open hearts.

Just like tracks in stone, their beliefs and actions became deeply ingrained in their lives and they passed their teachings on to future generations. And so, they lived happily ever after, always guided by the wisdom of YHVH and the objective standard of truth, embracing unconditional love and welcome all experiences.