Multicolored Lemur

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Atheist / Agnostic
Nov 23, 2021
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Paulogia describes himself as a former Christian who takes a look at the claims of Christians.

And he makes the very valid point that some people with cancer have spontaneous remission. So, if a person gets healed from cancer outside of modern medicine — although it will certainly seem like a miracle to that family! — you can’t really call it a miracle looking at it from the outside.

Why do no people have limbs which grow back? Or other, true blue, obvious miracles?
 
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And he makes the very valid point that some people with cancer have spontaneous remission. So, if a person gets healed from cancer outside of modern medicine — although it will certainly seem like a miracle to that family! — you can’t really call it a miracle looking at it from the outside.
Since this is the philosophy section, I'll go into detail on my thinking.

Contrary to some skeptics, I wouldn't call something a natural event even if there was a naturalistic explanation for it. My reasoning is that one event or effect can come about in more than one way. For instance, there is more than one way to get pregnant, i.e. intercourse, artificial insemination, perhaps even divine intervention. The only way I would call the pregnancy a result of insemination is if there was evidence that artificial insemination occurred. I know the natural explanation is more likely, given the evidence for those causes, but again, just because it occurred in one case doesn't mean it will occur in all cases, or at least there should be evidence that it occurred in a particular case under question. I also know about Occam's Razor, but that does not disprove anything. It certainly doesn't tell me that the supernatural is impossible. And of course, it would also help if there was direct evidence for divine intervention.

So in conclusion, it's more likely that the natural explanations occurred. If the person said otherwise because of the timing of their prayer and the remission of cancer, then I'd have to tell them it's a low probability but not impossible.

Why do no people have limbs which grow back? Or other, true blue, obvious miracles?
I enjoyed the video as it made a good point of bringing up miracles that can't easily be mistaken for something else. Christians would do good if they would simply provide evidence for amputees that were healed as opposed to attacking the reasoning behind these requests for evidence of such. However, one challenge I found on my own is even looking for miracle stories involving amputees being healed. There's no one place to find that information so it could be buried like on pg. 12 of a Google search. So I do question how skeptics go about even looking for such stories when there's no good place or way to keep track of it, let alone investigate it.
 
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If the person said otherwise because of the timing of their prayer and the remission of cancer, then I'd have to tell them it's a low probability but not impossible.
If me and the person were having afternoon tea, or fishing on the riverbank sipping cool lemonade whether alcoholic or non-alcoholic — and if I knew my friend liked philosophy. And that’s an important consideration, because a lot of people are very practically-minded and more power to them.

I don’t want to be like Ann’s husband who offended me by laying this philosophy on me after my grandmother died.

It was 20 years ago. I sometimes miss my grandmother but the wounds aren’t fresh. And he didn’t mean badly. And he said she had had a good life, and I believe in that, too.

He said two or three sentences, and there was the threat of him keeping going. That was probably the key part which really bothered me and made it awkward for me. Plus, while Ann was a homegrown American, he was from a foreign culture. He smiled. I don’t know if he was trying to be sympathetic. If he was proud of putting together his philosophy, and this is the one I kind of latched onto. Or, maybe he was just embarrassed, because it was an awkward and serious topic. Doesn’t sound like a big deal, but . . .

—> I basically couldn’t look at the guy afterwards.

And before this, Ann was a nice older lady who enjoyed walking her German shepherd in the neighborhood.

And so consequently, I’m much more cautious about laying any kind of complex sentences onto a person who has recently experienced loss. Anything beyond an “I’m sorry,” and the offer of a hug. It’s their time. It’s not my time to be right about philosophy or religion or my own thinking.

==============

Of course, if they’ve beaten cancer, they may be just as high as a kite. And/or we may be excellent friends. This whole topic very much depends on the particular social situation, and I certainly make the wrong move.
 
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He said two or three sentences, and there was the threat of him keeping going. That was probably the key part which really bothered me and made it awkward for me. Plus, while Ann was a homegrown American, he was from a foreign culture. He smiled. I don’t know if he was trying to be sympathetic. If he was proud of putting together his philosophy, and this is the one I kind of latched onto. Or, maybe he was just embarrassed, because it was an awkward and serious topic. Doesn’t sound like a big deal, but
When someone goes on a long diatribe, it's usually because they want to talk at you (to get their view out) instead of talking with you (involves listening).

I don’t want to be like Ann’s husband who offended me by laying this philosophy on me after my grandmother died.
That's not the right time to do so, imo.
 
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When someone goes on a long diatribe, it's usually because they want to talk at you (to get their view out) instead of talking with you (involves listening).
As a nerdy person, I can do this myself! :p

I can get in the mindset that I really want to download information. Although I hope written form, such as here, is slightly more forgiving. :)
 
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Why no more happenings which are obvious miracles?​

What's interesting is that claims of supernatural encounters, or at least the belief in the existence of such things, persists in our scientific and somewhat more skeptical times. That includes video and audio evidence of alleged supernatural encounters.

My thinking is if the supernatural was all a hoax or were based on just events that occurred in the Bible, then we'd see such beliefs decrease drastically, if not go away for the large part, just as some religions and myths have gone away. This has not happened. Admittedly, I've experienced things that I seem bizarre but I hesitate to call it supernatural.
https://theagnosticforum.com/thread...ppenings-which-are-obvious-miracles.385/reply