BRICS nations offer alternative to West. Is this a good or bad thing?

[AgnosticBoy]

Anyone here familiar with BRICS?

Here's a wonderful description from DW (a German public-state owned news agency):

The acronym began as a somewhat optimistic term to describe what were the world's fastest-growing economies at the time. But now the BRICS nations — Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa — are setting themselves up as an alternative to existing international financial and political forums.

Although the article mentions that these nations are no longer considered the fastest growing economies, but what is increasing are the cooperations between these nations.

But what may have started as a marketing ploy to encourage investors has grown into a platform for intergovernmental cooperation similar to the G7. In 2009, the four nations met for their first summit in Russia's Yekaterinburg. In 2010, South Africa was invited to join the group, adding the "S" to BRICS.

The article further goes on explaining how this cooperation is becoming an alternative to the Western financial system:

In 2014, with $50 billion (around €46 billion) in seed money, the BRICS nations launched the New Development Bank as an alternative to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. In addition, they created a liquidity mechanism called the Contingent Reserve Arrangement to support members struggling with payments.

These offers were not only attractive to the BRICS nations themselves, but also to many other developing and emerging economies that had had painful experiences with the IMF's structural adjustment programs and austerity measures. This is why many countries said they might be interested in joining the BRICS group.

The BRICS bank is open to new members. In 2021, Egypt, the United Arab Emirates, Uruguay and Bangladesh took up shares. However, these were much lower than the respective $10 billion investments made by the bank's founding members.

South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor has said worldwide interest in the BRICS group was "huge." In early March, she told television interviewers that she had 12 letters from interested countries on her desk.

"Saudi Arabia is one," she said. "United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Algeria, and Argentina," as well as Mexico and Nigeria.

Now, I was thinking that these nations didn't stand a chance against the G7 nations(a grouping of seven of the world's advanced economies), but this CNN report along with recent economic events (bank failures, increasing debt, etc.) is leading me to question that:

A trove of leaked classified Pentagon documents highlight US anxieties over growing Chinese and Russian influence in Latin America and Africa.

Senior Biden administration officials have expressed concern about Russian and Chinese influence in Africa and elsewhere, which can take the form of arms sales, infrastructure projects or media campaigns.

For Debate:
1. Is BRICS a good alternative to the West in any way?
2. Will the West, or the United States in particular, lose its influence in any significant way?
3. What are some of the causes for that? Is it good or bad that the West loses influence?

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, Qaddafi never would have gotten away with it i guess, but i have noticed a change of tide since we destroyed Libya’s water infrastructure; def a dick move. The Central Bank really cant afford to brook any opposition, at least in their minds, but what does one do when the whole rest of the world is against one?

Unfortunately, they have tried and true methods, that they are surely employing as we speak. And im not sure how many rabid patriots are even left, after lifetimes of being treated like disposable batteries lol

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Is BRICS a good alternative to the West in any way?

I presume that these nations working together would mostly be for economic reasons and not to be some military opposition to the United States. In terms of economy, I think having an alternative to the US and other powerful Western nations (like those in the G7) is a good idea. You wouldn't want the G7 to fail, and have all the other nations that depend on them to also fail. There should always be alternative options.

The only bad idea I see is that rogue nations like North Korea and Iran won't feel the effects of economic sanctions from the West, if all they gotta do is fall back on BRICS.

2. Will the West, or the United States in particular, lose its influence in any significant way?

I think the US is already losing influence but again, but it won't do so in any significant way any time soon. But one way it's losing influence and through the declining use of the "dollar". Here's one perspective from The National:

At the start of millennium, almost three quarters of global currency reserves were held in dollars. Today, that’s fallen to 59 per cent, according to the International Monetary Fund, and the slide looks set to continue.

The dollar’s reserve currency status hands the US political power as well as economic strength, and it hasn't been afraid to use it.

To punish Russia for invading Ukraine, western governments froze $300 billion of Russia's foreign currency reserves last year, roughly half the total, and expelled Russian banks from the Swift international payments system.

So-called dollar “weaponisation” has rattled many countries and not just Russia, says Jason Hollands, managing director of investment platform Bestinvest.

“Countries willing to continue to trade with Russia, like India and China, have started doing so in rupees and yuan instead, triggering talk of the de-dollarisation of the international trading order.”

Brazil and China are now trading with each other in yuan, helping to establish the Chinese renminbi as an international currency and dollar challenger, especially in commodities, Mr Hollands adds.

Dollar pricing makes life difficult for other countries because, when the greenback rises, essentials like oil get more expensive, leaving the big commodity importers at the mercy of exchange rate movements.

“Strengthening economic ties and trade relationships between China and Russia are enhancing the yuan’s appeal because it offers them a more stable exchange rate,” says Vijay Valecha, chief investment officer at Century Financial.

There are also reports that Saudi Arabia is considering using currencies other than the dollar (China is playing a big role in that):

As referred to in our top 20 Currencies list, almost all oil is traded in dollars, which is a pillar of strength for the US. All oil trades being in dollars means that all world banks will keep a vast amount of US dollars in their reserves (sometimes more than their own currency) in order to buy barrels of oil. Profits are also taken in dollars, and often reinvested, which is referred to as petrodollar recycling.

These reserve dollars have come to be known as petrodollars (a portmanteau of petroleum and dollars). They are simply dollars, but have the status of petrodollars due to their connection to oil.

The petrodollar is not being replaced, but it is certainly being challenged in 2023. After 40 years of a comfortable monopoly, the US is being challenged by China.

In 2023, there have been a few changes that suggest the petrodollar might not be as solid as once thought, and that the US might need to affirm its strength. Most notably, on March 29, Saudi Arabia announced that they have agreed to become a “dialogue partner” with the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, the world’s largest regional political and defence organisation in terms of geographic scope and population.

Source: CurrencyTransfer

3. What are some of the causes for that? Is it good or bad that the West loses influence?

Based on the articles in my last post, it seems that having a major competitor in China and countries not wanting to the dollar to be "weaponized" are big factors. I would say that it's simply rogue or communist nations just wanting to get out from under US control, but then we have countries like Brazil, India, and South Africa that are also willing to partner with China and trade with non-dollar currencies.

 

[bbyrd009]

The only bad idea I see is that rogue nations like North Korea and Iran won't feel the effects of economic sanctions from the West, if all they gotta do is fall back on BRICS.

Iran was an awesome place, a jewel of the Mideast, until the US got their hooks in...N Korea idk, but it is funny imo that you invoked the last two nations w/o a Central Bank? Which i think even Iran has been forced into a Central Bank now, dunno.
Point being they are “rogue nations” by someone’s definition, yes, and they are of course the same ppl who curate our news

To punish Russia for invading Ukraine, western governments froze $300 billion of Russia's foreign currency reserves last year, roughly half the total, and expelled Russian banks from the Swift international payments system.

So-called dollar “weaponisation” has rattled many countries and not just Russia, says Jason Hollands, managing director of investment platform Bestinvest...

YOU REALIZE THAT WE HAVE $bILLIONS INVESTED oops in Ukraine, specifically in biotech and other tech, and Putin was more or less compelled to attack

There are also reports that Saudi Arabia is considering using currencies other than the dollar

yay. Lopping the heads off some Rothschilds and some Warburgs should def stay on the table imo
bombing Libya ‘s water infrastructure bc Gold Dinars was nothing short of a mortal sin

 

[bbyrd009]

Based on the articles in my last post, it seems that having a major competitor in China and countries not wanting to the dollar to be "weaponized" are big factors. I would say that it's simply rogue or communist nations just wanting to get out from under US control, but then we have countries like Brazil, India, and South Africa that are also willing to partner with China and trade with non-dollar currencies.

well surely you are aware that the $ has already crashed over 99%, or iow been weaponized really a long time ago; manipulated fiat is strictly a wealth-extraction tool, and the american dollar is unfortunately the head of the pack there, although history is replete with examples of the Central Bank basically decimating economies (”full Zimbabwe”) which big surprise barely even searches now lol

 

[AgnosticBoy]

well surely you are aware that the $ has already crashed over 99%, or iow been weaponized really a long time ago;

Honestly, I only recently (maybe since 2020) started paying serious attention to the economy. Before that, I would only listen to the mainstream media and they usually don't go behind the scenes too much to expose some of the things you brought up.

manipulated fiat is strictly a wealth-extraction tool, and the american dollar is unfortunately the head of the pack there, although history is replete with examples of the Central Bank basically decimating economies (”full Zimbabwe”) which big surprise barely even searches now lol

This is scary but probably a lot of truth to it. I doubt the government would ever admit to all of this stuff anyways.

 

[bbyrd009]

Honestly, I only recently (maybe since 2020) started paying serious attention to the economy. Before that, I would only listen to the mainstream media and they usually don't go behind the scenes too much to expose some of the things you brought up.


This is scary but probably a lot of truth to it. I doubt the government would ever admit to all of this stuff anyways.

its kind of dark, but you might watch “While the Rest of Us Die”

 

[AgnosticBoy]

“While the Rest of Us Die”

Thanks. I'll take a peek and go from there.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I think the US is already losing influence but again, but it won't do so in any significant way any time soon. But one way it's losing influence and through the declining use of the "dollar". Here's one perspective from

Earlier I brought up that BRICS could cause the US dollar to decline. But here's a good perspective on that matter from Janet Yellen, the Treasury Secretary (just posting what I think are highlights):

The U.S. dollar saw an 8% decline in its share of global reserves in 2022 — causing some to question whether the dollar’s days of dominance are over.

Treasury Secretary Jannet Yellen gave her two cents on the matter of so-called “de-dollarization” during a congressional hearing on Tuesday — stating that no currency currently exists that could displace the greenback.

She did, however, warn that the dollar’s share of global reserves may continue to decline as countries look to “diversify.”

The dollar’s dominance in global trade and capital flows dates back at least 80 years — not just because the U.S. is the world’s largest economy, but also because oil and other essential commodities are priced in the greenback.

However, recent events — including the Fed’s aggressive rate hikes to stem domestic inflation, the trade war with China and the U.S. sanctions enforced after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine — have caused more countries to call for trade to be carried out in other currencies besides the U.S. dollar.

At the 14th BRICS Summit last year, Russian President Vladimir Putin announced measures to create a new “international currency standard.” Meanwhile, China has been urging oil producers and major exporters to accept yuan for payments, and major oil exporter Saudi Arabia has said it’s “open” to the idea of trading other currencies.

Even long-time allies, like France, have made non-dollar transactions since the U.S. ramped up its sanctions. In April, French President Emmanuel Macron said Europe must reduce its dependence on the U.S. dollar in order to keep its “strategic autonomy” and avoid becoming “vassals” (subordinate) to America.

“The dollar plays the role it does in the world financial system for very good reasons that no other country is able to replicate, including China,” she said. “We have deep liquid open financial markets, strong rule of law and an absence of capital controls that no country is able to replicate.”

Yellen said she sees “virtually no meaningful workaround for most countries for using the dollar as a reserve currency.”

“We should expect over time a gradually increased share of other assets in reserve holdings of countries — a natural desire to diversify. But the dollar is far and away the dominant reserve asset.”

According to data from the IMF’s Currency Composition of Foreign Exchange Reserves (COFER), the U.S. dollar accounted for 58.36% of global foreign exchange reserves in the fourth quarter last year. In second place was the euro, accounting for about 20.5% of reserves.

Meanwhile, the Chinese yuan — which some think is the biggest threat to the dollar — accounted for just 2.7% of reserves in the same period and nearly a third of that is held by Russia, according to a 2022 IMF paper.

While de-dollarization efforts are clearly underway, most financial commentators share Yellen’s view that the dollar will retain its throne.

Source: Yahoo Finance

 

[bbyrd009]

in that vein, https://www.businessinsider.com/china-debt-economy-implode-stock-market-wall-street-xi-jinping-2023-6?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Insider Today - Sunday - June 18&utm_term=INSIDER WEEKLY - ALL ENGAGED
”China is way more screwed than we thought”