“motive utilitarianism” is a pretty good theory of ethics.

[Multicolored Lemur]

Utilitarianism - By Branch / Doctrine - The Basics of Philos | Philosophy Basics

Learn what Utilitarianism studies in philosophy—key questions, major doctrines, and influential thinkers on Philosophy Basics. Clear guides for students and

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• Motive Utilitarianism states that our initial moral task is to inculcate motives within ourselves (by means of teaching and repetition) that will be generally useful across the spectrum of the actual situations we are likely to encounter, rather than hypothetical examples which are unlikely to occur. It can be thought of as a hybrid between Act and Rule Utilitarianism, but it also attempts to take into account how human beings actually function psychologically.

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This is a little long-winded, like most of philosophy!

All the same, I think this gets close to what I’m looking for. Actual situations and not so much these semi-bizarre situations philosophers like to come up with.

And this is pretty much what parents, teachers, coaches, etc, try to do. Skills for the usual, everyday situations. And for the unusual situations? Well, you’ll just have to wing it.

 

[Scooter]

No thank you. I'll stick with Godly values. They have worked for 6,000 years.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

They have worked for 6,000 years.

Have they?

The abusive treatment of women in different ways. And abusive treatment of people in general, for it was a very hierarchical society.

For example, I’ve heard evangelical Christians use the phrase “the biblical principle of one man and one woman.” They aren’t talking about Jacob marrying both Leah and Rachel. He also had children with the servant and/or slave of each wife. Zilpah was Leah’s servant, and Bilhah was Rachel’s servant.

There was also a daughter Dinah, and most probably other daughters not listed.

And lest we say, Hey, the Bible is merely describing a situation, not endorsing it. This is the Book of Genesis by the way. Well, since these make children became heads of the 12 Tribes of Israel, it is kind of endorsing this.

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At the end of the day, I think this is someone’s (some man’s) version of the ideal life.

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Later edits —

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 34 - New International Version

Dinah and the Shechemites - Now Dinah, the daughter Leah had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land. When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and raped her. His heart was drawn to Dinah daughter of Jacob; he loved the young woman and...

www.biblegateway.com

1 Now Dinah, the daughter Leah had borne to Jacob, went out to visit the women of the land.

2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, the ruler of that area, saw her, he took her and raped her.

3 His heart was drawn to Dinah daughter of Jacob; he loved the young woman and spoke tenderly to her.

4 Shechem said to his father Hamor, “Get me this girl as my wife.”

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The Israeli men come up with a plan to avenge on her behalf. But, is Dinah only included as a person because of this particular plot point? And that she’s a victim.

Maybe the book of Ruth shows a woman with more agency.

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You get the idea the men are keen to avenge because Dinah was violated by a member of the out-group. They may not have been so keen if it had been a member of the in-group.

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We can learn things and do better than an ancient book [which has both good stuff and bad stuff].

 

[Scooter]

Jesus fully explained God's position on marriage...one man one woman. Just because Jacob, David, Solomon and other patriarchs had numerous wives does not mean that was God's intent. Sure, it looks like they prospered and were blessed. However, Hugh Heffner seems to have prospered during his life. Does that mean God endorsed his lifestyle? I think not. Simply because God allows things to prosper does not indicate He supports them.

So what abuse of women is promoted in the Bible? What abusive treatment of people in general are you referring to?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

From the 1980s . . .

Parfit talks about an imaginary character called Temporus. This person only cares about the immediate future, which is totally irrational. Or is it? Many people in fact live this way. And I’m going to be a different person in 20 years anyway. But so what, I’ll still feel the consequences.

And from this, I draw the conclusion that I should care about other people, too!

 

[Scooter]

Ok, so you cannot present examples of the Bible teaching "The abusive treatment of women in different ways. And abusive treatment of people in general"?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

So what abuse of women is promoted in the Bible?

We just had this discussion, of which you were a major participant.

It looked like the Old Testament was saying a woman who was raped would be required to marry her rapist? ! ? Because the concern was the property rights of the father.

You said, no, the verbs in ancient Hebrew are different between rape and normal sex of an unmarried couple.

Featured Thread 'Is spousal rape allowed in the Bible?'

Nov 30, 2024

After reading some passages in Deuteronomy, I am questioning if the Biblical writers were okay with spousal rape, and by that I mean the husband raping his wife. Or did they think that the relationship status precludes rape. Here are some passages that I find questionable:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

After reading this, I may...

• AgnosticBoy
• Replies: 15
• Forum: Christianity (section 1)

• 

You wrote —

. . . The Hebrew word is תָּפַשׂ “tâphas“. This word does not mean rape. It means to lay hold of, to take, to seize. The word is used 65 times in the OT and 39 times it is translated as take or taken. If a man takes a woman that does not always mean he raped her. It is quite possible the encounter was consensual.

And … I hope you’re right. It’s too important a human situation not to hope for this.

I will point out that it’s not the phrase “to know” or “knew,” which was used as a euphemism for sex between Adam and Eve, and elsewhere as well.

 

[Scooter]

We just had this discussion, of which you were a major participant.

It looked like the Old Testament was saying a woman who was raped would be required to marry her rapist? ! ? Because the concern was the property rights of the father.

Well this is not abuse directed towards women. You state that it “looked like” abuse. However, you misunderstood the context and made an incorrect assumption at worst or an unproven claim at best. Proper hermeneutics eliminates misconceptions.

So can you provide any evidence that the Bible promotes abuse to women or people in general?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Philosophy just has too many weird hypotheticals. And I say this as a person who generally likes weird movies! as well as well-plotted more standard movies.

And please don’t blame the theory for an impossible situation.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

However, you misunderstood the context

I’m willing to listen, but I’m not sure your view is correct on this one.

I’ve done a fair number of threads in this very section of parts of the Bible which seem doubtful or questionable to me. Here, I’d like to keep the discussion more on this theory of philosophy.