Featured writings of Paul have a lot of repeating as if an honest editor . . . . Plus was Christ and Resurrection first believed to happen in Heaven ? ??

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 8 - King James Version

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh...

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1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

.

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— King James Version

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Alright, like poetry, encouragement can use the method of repeating. Or, multiple copies of Paul’s letter(s) to the Romans were circulating, and the editor erred on the side of including rather than not including.

and . . .

Please notice verse 3 “ . . his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh . . ” Not flesh, but likeness. And if Christian started as a mystery religion with the action takint place in Heaven? And was late moved to Earth and that’s what grabbed people’s attention?

Paul’s letters were written before the Gospel. And his letters are sparse regarding details about Jesus’s life.

—————-/——-

Maybe it did start as a mystery faith with a big cosmic battle between good and evil.

When the dividing line between good and evil is within each of us. And being optimistic, the average person is about 70% good.

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About the possibility that the story of Christ first took place in Heaven, this is something I’ve read. It’s not original. However, I do find it intriguing.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Paul’s Use of a Scribe

Years ago, while working on my Ph.D., I was on a university campus in Nashville, TN, for a journal conference where I had presented a paper. After my presentation, I attended other presentations un…

sc-hunter.com

“First, Scripture didn’t hide that Paul used a scribe to compose his letters. Tertius wrote his letter to the Romans, so we’re told in Romans 16:22. Second, some commentators have inferred from Galatians 6:11 that Paul might have had eye-sight issues, or that he may have only written a line or two of his letters (1 Cor. 16:21).”

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Alright, that would explain why some of Paul’s letters appear to be over-edited. The scribe is basically trying too hard.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 16 - King James Version

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea: That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. Greet Priscilla and...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 22 —

“I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.”

— KJV
——————-

Alright, so Tertius is the scribe for Paul’s Letter to the Romans.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Please notice verse 3 “ . . his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh . . ” Not flesh, but likeness. And if Christian started as a mystery religion with the action takint place in Heaven? And was late moved to Earth and that’s what grabbed people’s attention?

Maybe it did start as a mystery faith with a big cosmic battle between good and evil.

When the dividing line between good and evil is within each of us. And being optimistic, the average person is about 70% good

I don't agree with that theory, but I get where you're coming from. The word "spirit" in the Bible usually represents something supernatural, heavenly, or divine in contrast with the word "flesh" that represents something physical, Earthly, and human. However, I I've also noticed that there's a sort of theological meaning to these words, which is the same we find when God talks about "death" when he said Adam and Eve would die.

In short, "flesh" and "spirit" can also be used to refer to someone's nature. There's a flesh nature and spiritual nature, with the latter coming from God as the Holy Spirit lives in a person and guides them.

In Romans 8, Paul contrasts those who live by the flesh with those who live by the Spirit. It is clear from the context that he is not referring to fleshly Christians and spiritual Christians but rather to those who have been born again by the Holy Spirit and those who have not. Paul says this explicitly in verse 9: “You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.

Those who are in the flesh are hostile toward God, cannot submit to God, and cannot please God (verses 7–8). This can only describe unbelievers.

Paul elaborates on the conflict of flesh vs. spirit more extensively than any other New Testament writer. In Paul’s writings, the flesh stands for the natural desires of a person operating apart from God. A person who has not been raised to life spiritually is still “in the flesh.” To Paul, a person who is spiritual is one who has been born by the Spirit, even if that person will occasionally fail to live up to that reality.

Source: GotQuestions

Also, there's Galatians 5:16-25 that talks about the flesh and spirit in terms of being about a nature, as in human nature vs. the Godly or Spirit nature.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

as in human nature vs. the Godly or Spirit nature.

and for a teenager, this comes down to especially masturbation ! ! !

and a teenager trying not to masturbate, has to be one of the most useless pursuit in the history of the human race. I’m going to try to pull a quote from James Dobson which may surprise people.

PS don’t think of a “purple lion”!

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Dr. Dobson’s initial letter regarding masturbation:

Dr. Dobson’s original open letter regarding masturbation.

www.overcoming-lust.com

“Dr. James Dobson wrote the following open letter years ago and it was posted on the website of Focus on the Family. It has since been removed. I have received permission to repost it here on the condition that I make it clear that it was written long ago . . ”

———

“ . . while acknowledging that masturbation is a highly controversial subject and Christian leaders differ widely . .

“ . . Between 95 and 98 percent of all boys engage in this practice — and the rest have been known to lie. It is as close to being a universal behavior as is likely to occur. A lesser but still significant percentage of girls also engage in what was once called ‘self-gratification.’ . .

“ . . Finally, in a moment (and I do mean a moment) of weakness, it happens again. What then, dear friend? Tell me what a young person says to God after he or she has just broken the one thousand first solemn promise to Him? I am convinced that some teenagers have thrown over their faith because of their inability to please God at this point of masturbation.

“The second circumstance in which masturbation might have harmful implications is when it becomes extremely obsessive. That is more likely to occur when it has been understood by the individual to be “forbidden fruit.” I believe the best way to prevent that kind of obsessive response is for adults not to emphasize or condemn it. . .

“ . . My advice is to say nothing after puberty has occurred. You will only cause embarrassment and discomfort. For those who are younger, it would be wise to include the subject of masturbation in the “Preparing for Adolescence” conversation I have recommended on other occasions. I would suggest that parents talk to their 12- or 13-year-old boys, especially, in the same general way my mother and father discussed this subject with me. We were riding in the car, and my dad said, ‘Jim, when I was a boy, I worried so much about masturbation. It really became a scary thing for me because I thought God was condemning me for what I couldn’t help. So I’m telling you now that I hope you don’t feel the need to engage in this act when you reach the teen years, but if you do, you shouldn’t be too concerned about it. I don’t believe it has much to do with your relationship with God.’

What a kind thing my father did for me that night in the car. He was a very conservative minister who never compromised his standards of morality to the day of his death. He stood like a rock for biblical principles and commandments. Yet he cared enough about me to lift from my shoulders the burden of guilt that nearly destroyed some of my friends in the church. This kind of “reasonable” faith taught to me by my parents is one of the primary reasons I never felt it necessary to rebel against parental authority or defy God. . . “

————————-


Okay, so it’s Christian leader James Dobson taking the common sense view, Hey parents, please don’t make a big deal about masturbation.

But the hemming and hawing at the beginning. That this is a letter from long ago, that maybe he no longer wants to directly oppose what other Christian leaders are saying, etc, etc.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

as a topic for grown ups —

Sometimes, a dad will wage war against his teenager son. Instead of being proud that his son is becoming a young man, the dad views him as competition.

And sometimes even worse is a mom waging war against her teenage daughter, often for an inappropriate boy the daughter likes. And the mom might be entirely correct, but somehow that makes it worse, not better. And the relationship might never recover. Even when the daughter is grown with kids and grandkids, she and her mom might be guarded friends, but not really.

—————

This an example of an important issue we might discuss, both Christians and non- , if we’re not hung up on trivial issues like masturbation.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

another grown up topic —


Sometimes a youth who is “spectrum” may gravitate toward the idea of transgender as an explanation. By spectrum, I mean the broad Autism Spectrum.

So, a 13-year-old young man who is spectrum may know he doesn’t fit and may think gender roles are stupid and silly, which they are, largely.

That’s not quite the same that feeling in your heart that you’re the opposite gender from how you’ve been raised.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

“Dr. James Dobson wrote the following open letter years ago and it was posted on the website of Focus on the Family. It has since been removed. I have received permission to repost it here on the condition that I make it clear that it was written long ago . . ”

———

“ . . while acknowledging that masturbation is a highly controversial subject and Christian leaders differ widely . .

“ . . Between 95 and 98 percent of all boys engage in this practice — and the rest have been known to lie. It is as close to being a universal behavior as is likely to occur. A lesser but still significant percentage of girls also engage in what was once called ‘self-gratification.’ . .

“ . . Finally, in a moment (and I do mean a moment) of weakness, it happens again. What then, dear friend? Tell me what a young person says to God after he or she has just broken the one thousand first solemn promise to Him? I am convinced that some teenagers have thrown over their faith because of their inability to please God at this point of masturbation.

“The second circumstance in which masturbation might have harmful implications is when it becomes extremely obsessive. That is more likely to occur when it has been understood by the individual to be “forbidden fruit.” I believe the best way to prevent that kind of obsessive response is for adults not to emphasize or condemn it. . .

“ . . My advice is to say nothing after puberty has occurred. You will only cause embarrassment and discomfort. For those who are younger, it would be wise to include the subject of masturbation in the “Preparing for Adolescence” conversation I have recommended on other occasions. I would suggest that parents talk to their 12- or 13-year-old boys, especially, in the same general way my mother and father discussed this subject with me. We were riding in the car, and my dad said, ‘Jim, when I was a boy, I worried so much about masturbation. It really became a scary thing for me because I thought God was condemning me for what I couldn’t help. So I’m telling you now that I hope you don’t feel the need to engage in this act when you reach the teen years, but if you do, you shouldn’t be too concerned about it. I don’t believe it has much to do with your relationship with God.’

What a kind thing my father did for me that night in the car. He was a very conservative minister who never compromised his standards of morality to the day of his death. He stood like a rock for biblical principles and commandments. Yet he cared enough about me to lift from my shoulders the burden of guilt that nearly destroyed some of my friends in the church. This kind of “reasonable” faith taught to me by my parents is one of the primary reasons I never felt it necessary to rebel against parental authority or defy God. . . “

That is good practical advice to the average person. I also question if masturbation is wrong in all cases, and if by highlighting it, it may in fact encourage it in some teens. I think we've experienced the typical teen who has parents that keep harping on some particular thing, and the kid does it anyway out of rebellion.

But to bring up the 'spiritual nature' I wonder where that fits into Dr. Dobson's view. Or perhaps he's giving some implied acknowledgement that it is impractical in some cases?

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

But to bring up the 'spiritual nature' I wonder where that fits into Dr. Dobson's view. Or perhaps he's giving some implied acknowledgement that it is impractical in some cases?

I’m going to guess that he thinks and believes that there’s a practical side to life. And that a person can’t do spiritual things are day long.