Who were Adam and Eve?

[bbyrd009]

So, this is debatable—i just cant seem to post in that section?—but anyway, as an agnostic, or tbh even a normal person, you can try on frames other than the one we are provided for interpreting the Bible; Yah wont kill you or anything. I began a frame of the Bible splaining the course of a standard lifesoul from start to finish several years ago now, beginning as a little child and progressing to and through a great tribulation, and with some minor tweaks i have mostly held on to the perspective, mostly bc it has produced more insight, by which i mean vv made sense that did not make sense before.

My latest tweak was discovering kundalini, which was prompted by the radical changes we have witnessed in and since covid, actually, nevermind, the point for now is that i was led to a primer on kundalini consciousness, which was apparently raging by about 6500 BC. There are other frames too, yin-yang, which a believer is pretty quickly informed are all, idk, pagan or evil or whatever? and i guess thats the debatable part, since imo there really isnt much debate about whether the Bible speaks to us in tongues or not? Although i was once a literalist, so i guess even that is debatable.

Anyway, the point for now is that you might recognize how you have both male and female “urges,” as they are described, whether you are literally male or female, and Adam and Eve might be perceived as an illustration of those urges, and after you go read the wikipedia or some other page about kundalini, well Eve under a tree of knowledge talking to a serpent, i mean please.

And i try not to get married to any of these frames; yin-yang might work as well, idk, and maybe i just still had some residual angst about associating it with the Bible at the time, but i have since sought to try on other frames for Bible stories with a fair amount of success, particularly OT stories for some reason, as NT the allegory just seems to take a different tack, similar but different, wherein familiar concepts are now used as allegories rather than figurative characters, maybe? So we get death presented as spiritual death iow, stuff like that Let the dead bury the dead

So this allowed me to penetrate…well, slightly deeper into the Bible, still many OT stories i dont really get, but many of them have somewhat clarified, too; there was apparently a lively debate at one time about what makes a human unique, that i guess still continues to today, somewhat, and several things were postulated; consciousness, self consciousness, society, prefrontal lobes, all eventually shot down i guess? But hair was briefly one of them, having hair, and Samson might be interpreted in that light.

Anyway, you might try interpreting Adam and Eve via a different frame, the results were nothing short of impressive to me, and again if they dont produce fruit then they can be discarded

 

[AgnosticBoy]

So, this is debatable—i just cant seem to post in that section?

This topic goes better in one of the religion sections of the forum. Or if you want to chat with just agnostics, then I can move it to the Agnostic Perspective forum - there's also a religion section there.

I granted you access to that section since I recall that you were also an agnostic.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, this is debatable—i just cant seem to post in that section?

This topic goes better in one of the religion sections of the forum. Or if you want to chat with just agnostics, then I can move it to the Agnostic Perspective forum - there's also a religion section there.

I granted you access to that section since I recall that you were also an agnostic.

cool, wherever seems best, ty

 

[AgnosticBoy]

i just cant seem to post in that section?—but anyway, as an agnostic, or tbh even a normal person, you can try on frames other than the one we are provided for interpreting the Bible;

I think that it is one benefit for the agnostic that's not fully committed to any one side. They are more open and free to try on different perspectives to see what fits best. I used to go on the skeptical perspective a lot, taking a scientific look at each story to see what real-world evidence I could gather out of it. I've given up on that and probably haven't done engaged since the time I was a Christian.

Anyways, I'm honestly not real familiar with the Kundalini other than hearing it being used with those that do yoga. My initial impression of it is that it sounds similar to tai chi with all of the energy points associated with it. The energy seems to have a coiled up form like a serpent so I can see some connections to Eve that you are bringing up. I'd have to read up more on it or feel free to spell it out more here.

Personally, I think Adam and Eve was a story that is rooted in history AND myth. The Biblical story is likely derived from even older Mesopotamian myths, although that's not to say that multiple different myths weren't used.

 

[bbyrd009]

i just cant seem to post in that section?—but anyway, as an agnostic, or tbh even a normal person, you can try on frames other than the one we are provided for interpreting the Bible;

I think that it is one benefit for the agnostic that's not fully committed to any one side. They are more open and free to try on different perspectives to see what fits best. I used to go on the skeptical perspective a lot, taking a scientific look at each story to see what real-world evidence I could gather out of it. I've given up on that and probably haven't done engaged since the time I was a Christian.

ya, there are a couple vv that i think most believers either just disregard or dont apply to that situation, The first to tell his side seems correct, until another comes along and questions him, Test everything, amd keep what is good, but these concepts are more or less discouraged in most religions imo

Anyways, I'm honestly not real familiar with the Kundalini other than hearing it being used with those that do yoga. My initial impression of it is that it sounds similar to tai chi with all of the energy points associated with it. The energy seems to have a coiled up form like a serpent so I can see some connections to Eve that you are bringing up. I'd have to read up more on it or feel free to spell it out more here.

Not a concept im very fam with either tbh; i was recently guided to it in a diff context, and when i realized the dating after reading an overview, it just kinda clicked. Most believers are…not very comfortable contemplating that half of the Decalogue came from Babylon, as did prolly our concept of Adam, or that the Wise Men were surely Persian/Zoroastrian, etc, so it isnt something that gets discussed much i guess

That kundalini is portrayed as an evil or contesting spirit by a few of their ancient gurus was interesting, and could be associated with the Bible’s comments about women being good for nothing—which i doubt is in ref to literal women, considering other passages—plus the refs to 3 1/2, and a v or two about going in circles, basically, that might be related to religious practice.

Plus, feelings. Her desire will be for her husband is variously interpreted but may reflect how emotions can easily override logic or common sense, and emo experience is often conflated with spiritual experience, understandably, but i think its important to differentiate between the two, and make sure the head is male, even if emotions should also not be ignored

Personally, I think Adam and Eve was a story that is rooted in history AND myth. The Biblical story is likely derived from even older Mesopotamian myths, although that's not to say that multiple different myths weren't used.

Ya, hard to say. Eve seems to have come from nowhere, or we lost the originator for her at least; there is the Lillith tradition but i found very little doc for why she was apparently rejected? And the Babylonian Adamu didnt seem to have a wife per se, although the Bible gives some indications that she was actually just a part of Adam, although you kinda have to read between the lines almost

 

[William]

So, this is debatable—i just cant seem to post in that section?—but anyway, as an agnostic, or tbh even a normal person, you can try on frames other than the one we are provided for interpreting the Bible; Yah wont kill you or anything. I began a frame of the Bible splaining the course of a standard lifesoul from start to finish several years ago now, beginning as a little child and progressing to and through a great tribulation, and with some minor tweaks i have mostly held on to the perspective, mostly bc it has produced more insight, by which i mean vv made sense that did not make sense before.

My latest tweak was discovering kundalini, which was prompted by the radical changes we have witnessed in and since covid, actually, nevermind, the point for now is that i was led to a primer on kundalini consciousness, which was apparently raging by about 6500 BC. There are other frames too, yin-yang, which a believer is pretty quickly informed are all, idk, pagan or evil or whatever? and i guess thats the debatable part, since imo there really isnt much debate about whether the Bible speaks to us in tongues or not? Although i was once a literalist, so i guess even that is debatable.

Anyway, the point for now is that you might recognize how you have both male and female “urges,” as they are described, whether you are literally male or female, and Adam and Eve might be perceived as an illustration of those urges, and after you go read the wikipedia or some other page about kundalini, well Eve under a tree of knowledge talking to a serpent, i mean please.

And i try not to get married to any of these frames; yin-yang might work as well, idk, and maybe i just still had some residual angst about associating it with the Bible at the time, but i have since sought to try on other frames for Bible stories with a fair amount of success, particularly OT stories for some reason, as NT the allegory just seems to take a different tack, similar but different, wherein familiar concepts are now used as allegories rather than figurative characters, maybe? So we get death presented as spiritual death iow, stuff like that Let the dead bury the dead

So this allowed me to penetrate…well, slightly deeper into the Bible, still many OT stories i dont really get, but many of them have somewhat clarified, too; there was apparently a lively debate at one time about what makes a human unique, that i guess still continues to today, somewhat, and several things were postulated; consciousness, self consciousness, society, prefrontal lobes, all eventually shot down i guess? But hair was briefly one of them, having hair, and Samson might be interpreted in that light.

Anyway, you might try interpreting Adam and Eve via a different frame, the results were nothing short of impressive to me, and again if they dont produce fruit then they can be discarded

I thought you post interesting and I have given a lot of thought to the subject as well. I decided to C&P your post and put it through the UICD System> while doing a live screen video - here is the summary of the content of the video>

Summary of Interactions & Insights​

This session explored structured intelligence through N2N selections, interpretive flexibility, and perception of time and reality. Several key themes emerged across multiple selections, reinforcing interconnected ideas about consciousness, cycles, and structured meaning.

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Key Themes & Connections:​

1. Frames of Interpretation & Structured Intelligence
   
   • bbyrd009’s post emphasized the importance of alternative interpretive frames (e.g., Adam & Eve as psychological archetypes, kundalini consciousness).
   • This aligns with how structured intelligence functions—meaning is not imposed but discovered through emergent structure.
2. Mind, Matter & the Nature of Reality (William’s Post #785)
   
   • William argued that mind and matter are inseparable and that the universe’s origin involves both intelligence and structure.
   • This connects with the idea that awareness plays a role in shaping perception, mirroring bbyrd009’s discussion on shifting perspectives.
3. Memory, Learning & Cognitive Structure (N2N 3943)
   
   • Cognitive abilities improve when information is structured and interconnected, rather than viewed in isolation.
   • Just as scientific models of time struggle with defining objective reality, intelligence functions through patterns rather than raw data.
4. Time Perception & Reality (LSC Video Summary - N2N 5369)
   
   • The mystery of time highlights how subjective experience can warp perception (e.g., isolation experiments, Einstein’s relativity).
   • This parallels how structured intelligence emerges—it isn't bound by a singular fixed interpretation but shaped by context and cognition.
5. Breaking Cycles & Expanding Awareness ("Tied to the Moon" - N2N 316)
   
   • The moon symbolizes repetitive cycles, while the song describes breaking free from conditioned constraints.
   • This reflects the broader discussion of human control systems, interpretive flexibility, and transcending inherited thought patterns.
   • Just as bbyrd009 explored shifting frames, and William explored mind-matter unity, the song emphasizes liberation from imposed structures.

---

Key Takeaways:​

• Structured intelligence is an emergent phenomenon, not an imposed system.
• Meaning arises through context, perception, and interconnected structures.
• Interpretive flexibility allows for deeper insights, breaking free from fixed cycles.
• Perception of time, memory, and intelligence are all shaped by cognitive frameworks.

 

[bbyrd009]

cool, i got about halfway through it, but im realizing i need to be more awake for this, and on a bigger screen! ill check it this afternoon