What is your favorite topic on religion or theism that you like to debate on? And why?
 
What is your favorite topic on religion or theism that you like to debate on? And why?
Since I'm into psychology, I find myself debating a lot on sexuality. Sexuality is such a big part of human life. I had quite a few debates on polygamy and adultery since starting the forum.

I also like watching debates on objective morals.
 
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quite a few debates on polygamy and adultery

12_sons_of_jacob-12_tribes_of_israel_chart.jpg


Such as Jacob wanting to marry Rachel, but her father pulls a switcheroo at the wedding and tricks him into marrying the older sister Leah!

Then Jacob has to work and wait 7 more years to marry his true love Rachel.

In some kind of competition to have children, both wives recruit and press their “maid servants” to the cause. Bilah in the case of Rachel, and Zilpah in the case of Leah. And if they’re even partially indentured servants, not so cool. I mean, on non-abuse grounds and all.

And this is family values ! ? !

Or if religious conservatives are talking about the “Biblical principle” of one man and one woman, they’re not talking about this family!

And unlikely but not impossible that they had 12 sons and only one daughter. More likely, this is just an example of a patriarchal culture ignoring the daughters unless they’re directly involved and mentioned in a story.
 
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And this is family values ! ? !

Or if religious conservatives are talking about the “Biblical principle” of one man and one woman, they’re not talking about this family!
I agree. In all of my time debating this issue with Christians, it seems that they rarely want to factor in the OT as is. Conservative Christians lose credibility when that happens.
 
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What is your favorite topic on religion or theism that you like to debate on? And why?
My favorite topic (or at least one of them) is that Jesus Christ is a Person to know as an intimate way of fellowship.
This rather that a philosophy, system, book of rules to keep, or other impersonal concept no matter how good.

He is certainly an unusual Person since He is not yet manifested physically before me. However, as a one experiencible and able to commune with on deeper and deeper levels of fellowship, He is not a religion but a living Person to know.

That is what I believe.

I also like to speak of the eternal purpose of God for otherwise I would not know WHY I exist in this here universe.
 
My favorite topic (or at least one of them) is that Jesus Christ is a Person to know as an intimate way of fellowship.
This rather that a philosophy, system, book of rules to keep, or other impersonal concept no matter how good.

He is certainly an unusual Person since He is not yet manifested physically before me.
You search the writings for word of Me, when here I am, right in front of you! kind of suggests to me that He might be physically manifesting right in front of us, all the time? While i certainly dont know, i suggest that Jesus of Nazareth makes for a great way to say “John Doe, from Nowhere” in rabbi-speak, being as how Jesus (Joshua) was the most common male name then, and that we know Nazareth was uninhabited in the first century
That is what I believe.

I also like to speak of the eternal purpose of God for otherwise I would not know WHY I exist in this here universe.
i suggest that the “I” you want to know “why” about is um not really what you think it is, and that you have just completely forgotten that you invented that part; as hard as this might be to contemplate at first glance.
Remember when you looked in a mirror and were not able to see your “self?”
 
or iow “be careful what you know” is i guess what i mean to say

One of the by products of modern relatavism is that people are reluctant to claim to know anything with certainty.

"Do ya know what I mean ??" is a frequent phrase meant to portray humilty. LIke - "Do you feel my subjective feeling here? Do you known what I MEAN ?"

Now arrogance and dogmatism is one error. False humilty and fear to say "I know what I know" is an opposite extreme.
The Apostle Paul wrote some 13 so books of the 27 New Testament books. He said of himself and other Christians "We know in part."
And he said today we see through a glass darkly. The day will come when we will know even as we are known.


This is humilty that we still have questions because we know "in part" the great truths of the New Testament.
On the other hand the Apostle John was not ashamed to admit that "WE KNOW . . ." some things.


First John 3:24b - And in this WE KNOW that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He gave to us.

First John 3:5 - And YOU KNOW that He was manifested that He might take away sins; and sin is not in Him.

First John 4:16 - And WE KNOW and have believed the love which God has in us.

First John 3:14 - WE KNOW that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers.


First John 5:18-20 - WE KNOW that everyone who is begotten of God does not sin, but he who has been begotten of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.

WE KNOW that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the evil one.

And WE KNOW that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.


As a Christian I know some things in part today.
But there are some things that I KNOW too.
Receiving Jesus Christ we ought not be ashamed to confess some things we KNOW.
 
One of the by products of modern relatavism is that people are reluctant to claim to know anything with certainty.
well tbh that has rarely/never been my experience among believers? But i would say “thank God” to that myself, if it were true. Dunning-Kruger seems to be much more prevalent, imo

"Do ya know what I mean ??" is a frequent phrase meant to portray humilty. LIke - "Do you feel my subjective feeling here? Do you known what I MEAN ?"
hmm, you think that is meant to portray humility? Seems like just a way to seek understanding to me…but then i am asperger’s, so i usually get that stuff wrong i guess
Now arrogance and dogmatism is one error. False humilty and fear to say "I know what I know" is an opposite extreme.
The Apostle Paul wrote some 13 so books of the 27 New Testament books. He said of himself and other Christians "We know in part."
And he said today we see through a glass darkly. The day will come when we will know even as we are known.


This is humilty that we still have questions because we know "in part" the great truths of the New Testament.
On the other hand the Apostle John was not ashamed to admit that "WE KNOW . . ." some things.
well as to that, i suggest that Paul is leading believers on, at least quite often, as the famous warning about misinterpreting Paul warns
First John 3:24b - And in this WE KNOW that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He gave to us.
and we know that those who testify of themselves have an invalid testimony, right
First John 3:5 - And YOU KNOW that He was manifested that He might take away sins; and sin is not in Him.

First John 4:16 - And WE KNOW and have believed the love which God has in us.

First John 3:14 - WE KNOW that we have passed out of death into life because we love the brothers.


First John 5:18-20 - WE KNOW that everyone who is begotten of God does not sin, but he who has been begotten of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.

WE KNOW that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the evil one.

And WE KNOW that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding that we might know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
and etc, Christians mostly believe that their real life will start after they have literally died, they mostly attend incorporated “churches” where the ”tithes” go not toward the storehouse, but rather toward the ”pastors” lifestyle, on and on.
so i wouldnt deny the vv themselves, so much as the interpretations

As a Christian I know some things in part today.
But there are some things that I KNOW too.
Receiving Jesus Christ we ought not be ashamed to confess some things we KNOW.
all this is amounting to a defense of “He is certainly an unusual Person since He is not yet manifested physically before me,” a gnostic statement, that it could at least be argued is not spiritually correct, since we have If someone tells you “Here He is, over here” dont bother to go see, You search the writings for word of Me when here I am right in front of you, We are the body of Christ, etc

now i wouldnt argue that there are some things that i know, dont get me wrong, only what i know from Scripture you would not like, and surely would not accept, all mostly running along the lines of ”Believers go to the same place after death as everyone else, Jesus is a representation and not meant to be literalized, Jesus is never literally returning to earth a second time,” etc, all stuff the Bible says quite plainly
 
and we know that those who testify of themselves have an invalid testimony, right
You may be referring to Jesus saying that if He testified concerning Himself His testimony was not valid? (John 5:31)
And if Jesus's testimony concerning Himself is not reliable where does that leave the rest of us?
Yet, He also said latter He testimony was 100% reliable because He knew where He came from. Jesus answered and said to them, Even if I testify concerning Myself, My testimony is true, for I know where I came from and where I am going; but you do not know where I come from or where I am going. (John 8:14)

So we have both Jesus saying ANOTHER must testify with Him.
And we have Him saying His testimony alone is reliable because He knows what He knows.
I receive BOTH passages. God uttered both. So I trust both.

I also have to consider the nature of the New Covenant promised by God in
Jeremiah 31:33,34.

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares Jehovah: I will put My law in their inward parts and write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they will be My people. And they will no longer teach, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah; for all of them will know Me, from the little one among them even to the great one among them, declares Jehovah, for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
There is here a promise of a knowing which is very deep. In some sense what others say is inconsequential.
Check your experience. Have you ever had, let's say, a Jehovah's Witness try to convince you that you did not know Jehovah God?
They just didn't realize the inward confirmation of the new covenant - "for all of them [in the new covenant] will know Me, from the little one among them even to the great one among them, declares Jehovah,
Now THIS very say assured Jesus is now
"one spirit" with the one who is joined to Him.
And in resurrection He teaches that we WILL KNOW that He is in us.

In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. (John 14;20)


and etc, Christians mostly believe that their real life will start after they have literally died,
This is of course a mistake.
For Christ Himself is the real life as so much of the Gospel of John says.
they mostly attend incorporated “churches” where the ”tithes” go not toward the storehouse, but rather toward the ”pastors” lifestyle, on and on.
so i wouldnt deny the vv themselves, so much as the interpretations
At a certain point I had a prayer which God was faithful to answer. I prayed something like this - "Lord put me with some Christian who will encourage my faith rather than discourage it."

God really answered that prayer. Even when I was not faithful He was. He put me with brothers in Christ who could encourage me rather than give me reasons for countless cynical obstacles.

I do not mean that I found a Christian UTOPIA. I mean He led me to churches where the Holy Spirit always seems to have the final word. Such gatherings do exist.

all this is amounting to a defense of “He is certainly an unusual Person since He is not yet manifested physically before me,”
Christ is truly REAL and one of a kind (unusual). He occupies a class of people with whom there is no other.
We may say there are many prophets, many teachers, many guides, etc.
There is only One God-man who transfigured Himself to be a divine life giving Spirit.
He is the last Adam and the second man - the head of a whole new race of humanity.

So also it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living soul”; the last Adam became a life-giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45)


The first Adam is indeed distant from memory. But this "last Adam" is a Person whose impact on history has been cataclysmic.
BC and AD virtually mean -
"Since this Person Jesus Christ has come to the world, nothing will be the same."


Do you agree?

I believe that "a life giving Spirit" means a Spirit that GIVES Christ as divine and eternal life into man.
He who has the Son has the life. It is up to us to learn to enjoy this life.
It is up to us to cease to live in the old way and practice the new way of living in union with Christ.
Many great teachers lived and died.
Only this unusual Person, lived, died, rose again AND can impart Himself INTO man's being.


a gnostic statement, that it could at least be argued is not spiritually correct, since we have If someone tells you “Here He is, over here” dont bother to go see, You search the writings for word of Me when here I am right in front of you, We are the body of Christ, etc
There will come the day when outwardly and objectively we will SEE this One.
You know God appeared on the top of Mt. Sinai in a dramatic way for some 40 days.
However, the people eventually got bored. They even sought to make a golden calf and get a new leader to return them to Egypt.

I think the lesson in this is that God must do an INWARD work. A purely OUTWARD manifestation will not change man that much.
Forty days of dramatid manifestation to a great multitude of Israelites demonstrated that.

So in the new covenant the apostles emphazises that we must realize that Jesus Christ is living within us.
Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved? (2 Cor. 13:5)

For the Christian Jesus the miraculous and atypical unusual God-man is not only in them.
He must take shape, be formed, expand, spread, and fill up them in personality.
My children, with whom I travail again in birth until Christ is formed in you, (Gal. 4:19)

What a salvation!
From within divine life is growing and from without divine life will "swallow" us up too - swallowed up by life.

" in that we do not desire to be unclothed, but clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has wrought us for this very thing is God, who has given to us the Spirit as a pledge. "


now i wouldnt argue that there are some things that i know, dont get me wrong, only what i know from Scripture you would not like, and surely would not accept, all mostly running along the lines of ”Believers go to the same place after death as everyone else, Jesus is a representation and not meant to be literalized, Jesus is never literally returning to earth a second time,” etc, all stuff the Bible says quite plainly
I recommend that one learn to say a faith filled "Amen" to every line of Scripture.
The greatest blessing for me is to learn to "Amen" what is said everywhere.

But I came to the Old Testament through the New Testament.
I came to Christ with a typical filter of modern skepticism.
What happend to me was that gradually I noticed that Jesus referred to accounts in the Old Testament.
Not immediately, but with time I reasoned - "Well, if it was good for Jesus, it must be good."

This was a gradual process with me. But eventually I embraced the whole Bible as completely reliable.
Now what it actually SAYS . . . may require caution.
But every word of God is true and also nourishing, feeding the spirit.

Jeremiah 15:16 shows the man of God should "EAT" the words of God. They are truth and they are sustenance.
Your words were found, and I ate them, and your words became to me a joy and the delight of my heart, for I am called by your name, O LORD, God of hosts.