Validating scripture

B

Bill

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On another forum, Chapabel complained that I would never attempt to verify the truth of his "evidence" that the Christian bible is true and accurate. I responded I had no idea how to conduct such a verification and asked him how I should go about it,

He responded "Here's what I recommend, read the Gospel of John with an open heart and mind. Do not try to read the entire book at one time. You don't even have to read a complete chapter at one sitting. Each time you take time to read a portion, ask God to reveal Himself to you. As an agnostic it will feel strange to ask God to help you since you aren't even sure He exists. When you come to a portion you don't understand, ask God to show you the meaning. Keep reading that part until you know what is meant. Feel free also to ask me and I will attempt to uncover a meaning."

I protested that that was not a valid method of verification and was told "there is no justified true belief for someone who refuses to believe".

Was I correct in my protest?
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Hey Bill,

I agree with your protest. It seems that the issue is that Chapabel wants you to verify things his way, without questioning the method of verification. Looking at the method, I would say that it is unreliable and I say that because "God revealing himself to you" tends to involve a lot of subjectivity. To some believers, perhaps the wind blowing the pages of a Bible to a particular page/passage is a way of God trying to show you something. These are not unmistakable signs of God.

If I'm going to try anything out, then I'd want something that can't be mistaken for a natural occurrence. I'm open to even a personal supernatural experience.
 
Bill, could I please suggest you read the book...The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. Mr. Strobel was an atheist who went on a mission to prove The Bible was not true. I would also suggest the movie...God is not Dead. Both of these sources with give you cause for deep thought and a chance to make up your own mind. The Bible tells us that unbelievers cannot discern the Scriptures because he does not believe ( 1 Corinthians 1:27 and 2:14. ) I am here for you if you need more help.
 
I seek a persuasive case, not opinions presented as hard facts. Near Death Experiences have been documented on many occasions, and while they may change the belief systems of those experiencing them, they have secular explanations that do not involve deities. I came across God is not Dead some time ago and was not at all convinced. And your biblical quote reinforces the view that if you believe the Christian bible is true, then its scripture will tell you that it is true, a message you will be able to believe. I do not reject Christian doctrine per se, I just cannot see why it should be given preference over any of the many other doctrines prevalent around the globe nowadays. I suspect that if I was persuaded that there is an all seeing, omnipotent god concerned with mankind's activities, I would be tempted to join the Muslim faith.
 
medusa53 said:
Bill, could I please suggest you read the book...The Case For Christ by Lee Strobel. Mr. Strobel was an atheist who went on a mission to prove The Bible was not true. I would also suggest the movie...God is not Dead. Both of these sources with give you cause for deep thought and a chance to make up your own mind. The Bible tells us that unbelievers cannot discern the Scriptures because he does not believe ( 1 Corinthians 1:27 and 2:14. ) I am here for you if you need more help.
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Hi medusa. Welcome to the forum! :cool: <- turn that to stone


I'm familiar with the book and movie you cited. There were some good points in each of those sources, but now enough to convince me that a god exist. ONe big problem that I have is that there doesn't seem to be any reliable means to know about God's existence or his communications with us. Oftentimes, when Christian claims that God told them so, it amounts to some subjective feeling or something vague. I've yet to come across a clear cut message from any god, something as clear as me typing to you.

With that said, I also don't automatically endorse the atheist side because a lot of them tend to be too skeptical and I think that actually limits knowledge. Many of them also hold on to unproven ideologies, like materialism. I see that as being the equivalent to a religious doctrine.
 
Bill said:
And your biblical quote reinforces the view that if you believe the Christian bible is true, then its scripture will tell you that it is true, a message you will be able to believe.
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That doesn't persuade me either. Such thinking is circular.
 
AgnosticBoy said:
Hey Bill,

I agree with your protest. It seems that the issue is that Chapabel wants you to verify things his way, without questioning the method of verification. Looking at the method, I would say that it is unreliable and I say that because "God revealing himself to you" tends to involve a lot of subjectivity. To some believers, perhaps the wind blowing the pages of a Bible to a particular page/passage is a way of God trying to show you something. These are not unmistakable signs of God.

If I'm going to try anything out, then I'd want something that can't be mistaken for a natural occurrence. I'm open to even a personal supernatural experience.
Click to expand...
Here's the thing...it's not "my" way, it's God's way. Faith comes by hearing the word of God. If a person refuses to verify God's existence, or the Bible's message God's way, then don't ask for any other evidence. Trying to verify God's existence apart from the Bible is like trying to solve a calculus problem with a book of literature. If the Bible is rejected, don't ask for anything else.
 
I would love to hear the evidence that the Bible is god's way and not just metaphor and poetry by ancient scribes attempting to explain the inexplicable.
 

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

2 Tim.3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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Quoting the bible to show the bible is true is circular arguing, You have had this fallacy explained before and I cannot believe you really would think you would get away with it this time.
 
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