Featured Old Testament — okay to beat your slave as long as they don’t die in a day or two ? ! ?

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - English Standard Version

Laws About Slaves - “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If...

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verse 20 — “When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.

verse 21 — “But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be avenged, for the slave is his money.”

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This is bad.

This is hard to explain away. And the fact that this is in Exodus, which is the book about Moses leading the Israelites out of bondage, well, that’s really pretty sad.

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People who believe in “Bible perfection” will argue that slavery was bad in that day and age, and at least the commandments of God put some reforms on it.

As if the Lord Almighty has to make this much compromise with the customs of the time ? ! ?

 

[AgnosticBoy]

As if the Lord Almighty has to make this much compromise with the customs of the time ? ! ?

If so, that would sound much like man-made rules, and maybe that's all these were.

But to get back to the main topic, I think there are two issues here that people tend to object to . One is of course beating another human being, and the other is with slavery.

The link to the source leads to a blank page but I'll still post it since it is good explanation:

What is sometimes called 'slavery' in the OT is actually much more like 'indentured servitude'. It was a voluntary and temporary solution to a long term problem ie poverty.

- https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/ladocs/other/13981/Australian Christian Alliance.pdf

I buy the view that this is unlike American slavery because no one is being forced into slavery, and in fact, we might be seen as the ones in the wrong if we're going against someone's voluntary choice. But what about the hitting part? I honestly don't believe there is any justification for that, and I wonder if the same rationale would also have allowed husbands to hit their wives. I assume masters were able to beat their slaves because they were subordinate, but then women were also subordinate to men back then.

Not to mention, that the master it seems can hit the slave to cause injury and can get away with it just as long as the slave doesn't die right away? I'm open to an explanation that paints this in a morally good light, but for now that doesn't sound the least bit moral at all. Inconsistent with love and justice.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I buy the view that this is unlike American slavery because no one is being forced into slavery,

I think there were 2 types of slavery in ancient Egypt Israel.

If you were an Israelite, then it could be more like indentured servitude, more like a long-term job ? ? ? And maybe not so bad. Perhaps.

If you were not an Israelite, then it wasn’t so good. Like, not at all.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Not to mention, that the master it seems can hit the slave to cause injury and can get away with it just as long as the slave doesn't die right away? I'm open to an explanation that paints this in a morally good light, but for now that doesn't sound the least bit moral at all. Inconsistent with love and justice.

It doesn’t seem the least bit moral to me either. And it seems totally inconsistent with an ethic of building up the community and helping the community. As well as an ethic that people have rights, in fact, it’s all the more important to respect the rights of someone in a lowly position.

There is a verse in this same chapter . . .

Which says that if two men get in a fight, we let the matter drop as long as the injuries aren’t too severe. But this is between equals. It’s losing your cool, instead of deliberative, prolonged meaness.

All the same, out of fairness, I’m going to include that part, too.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - English Standard Version

Laws About Slaves - “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 18 — “When men quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or with his fist and the man does not die but takes to his bed,

verse 19 — “then if the man rises again and walks outdoors with his staff, he who struck him shall be clear; only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall have him thoroughly healed.”

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Again, this is between equals.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - English Standard Version

Laws About Slaves - “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 26 — “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye.

verse 27 — “If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.”


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I guess this makes it . . . a little better.

After escaping the slavery in Egypt, this whole thing could have been so much better.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

It doesn’t seem the least bit moral to me either. And it seems totally inconsistent with an ethic of building up the community and helping the community. As well as an ethic that people have rights, in fact, it’s all the more important to respect the rights of someone in a lowly position.

There is a verse in this same chapter . . .

Which says that if two men get in a fight, we let the matter drop as long as the injuries aren’t too severe. But this is between equals. It’s losing your cool, instead of deliberative, prolonged meaness.

All the same, out of fairness, I’m going to include that part, too.

Imagine that slave being at the mercy of their master's kids... Knowing how spoiled rich kids can be. I think the New testament is where we first find rules that talk about loving your slave or something along those lines

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - English Standard Version

Laws About Slaves - “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 26 — “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye.

verse 27 — “If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.”


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I guess this makes it . . . a little better.

After escaping the slavery in Egypt, this whole thing could have been so much better.

And here I thought Masters were only permitted to hit their slave in a controlled way, kind of like the way parents would do corporal punishment on their kids. But knocking their eye out sounds more like being able to use them as a punching bag.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Imagine that slave being at the mercy of their master's kids... Knowing how spoiled rich kids can be.

thesis — Slavery tends to “serious-ify” situations. I mean, slavery takes what could be a mediumly bad situation, such as your employer’s self-centered child and it opens the door to it becoming truly bad.

PS Teenagers can swing back and forth between an amazing moral sense in which they really do care about fairness and other people having open opportunities, and being amazingly entitled.

 

[bbyrd009]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21 - English Standard Version

Laws About Slaves - “Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If...

www.biblegateway.com

verse 26 — “When a man strikes the eye of his slave, male or female, and destroys it, he shall let the slave go free because of his eye.

verse 27 — “If he knocks out the tooth of his slave, male or female, he shall let the slave go free because of his tooth.”


———————-

I guess this makes it . . . a little better.

After escaping the slavery in Egypt, this whole thing could have been so much better.

i suspect that a point might be to see how it was so much worse without these restrictions? An eye for an eye is often derided for much the same reasoning, but ppl dont realize that the point was “you dont get to kill a guy bc he put your eye out,” or iow our normal reaction irl