William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Page 131
GM:
Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation

William: FTL;
[Replying to historia in post #80]

Also, not every discussion on this forum is strictly for/against Christianity, like the broad question of whether God exists, or, you know, this thread. In many of those discussions, the distinction between atheism and agnosticism remain important, as you already agreed.

So I don't see a compelling reason in your responses to collapse them together.

From what I think I understand so far, on the question of whether a creator [GOD] exists, a person who say's "maybe-maybe not" is categorized as a "weak atheist" by atheists, due to the not knowing and not having faith so not believing.

It is a simple matter of belief, because if there is a Creator GOD - there is no direct way of knowing and there is no sure way of showing any indirect way if there is or not.

The term "weak atheist" appears to be derogatory in relation to being a strong atheist, who appear to be those who have taken the step into believing that a Creator GOD does not exist, and expressing that belief into the community.

I think that perhaps some agnostics have a problem with accepting the term "weak" as it implies they are apathetic, indifferent, [stuff like that] and those ones at least are making efforts to examine the question and have not reached a point where they feel they can honestly make a choice either way.

I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.

[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]

When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it "because of" theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.

Which is to say, I did not choose to believe that there was no Creator-GOD simply on account of "theist behaviours" or "reading the bible" [some reasons given by some who have changed position from theist to atheist] but rather, I chose to examine the question in more detail, and today I am grateful for having made that choice.

One thing I have learned is that the real question to be asking is not the one which separates "atheist" from "theist" [demanding that an individual must either be one or the other re the question] as believing or not believing in the existence of a Creator [and in the case of believing that there is - defining that Creator] because this step is jumping the gun and is thus a mis-step or stumble.

So - from my position, I see both atheists and theists as having jumped the gun, and instead of working together [as people] on finding answers to the Real Question which we should be asking, they fight over the question of a Creator GOD.

It is from that position I remain firm that I am neither theist or atheist, or for that matter - even agnostic - because the question re the existence of a Creator isn't the one I have been asking and finding out answers to.

GM: Human beings can do it the hard way or the easy way, but either way, the job will get done.
Illusion

William: FTL;
What IS a great analogy of the universe mindfully unfolding is The Planet Earth - A living stone of complexity ... as one cannot explain away the complexity of biological life forms as the result of mindless acts of nature in which the complex movement of said life forms is due to "flat slippery surfaces and strong winds."

Mind therefore, can suitable be inserted as the simplest explanation of agency for movement and consequent complex shaping, which then can be more readily accepted as a likely agency for why the universe is unfolding as it is...into Galaxies and in relation to what is going on within said Galaxies.

I think that Mind is a great explanation for 'why' what goes on in this universe, on macro and on micro levels alike, as the explanation itself comes from the mind and so the mind should be able to recognize the connections therein, even through [appropriately] imagining it most likely.

As mysterious as the universe still is, the mind is just as mysterious...and therein is where imagination has its legitimate place - as long as imagination not being used inappropriately by claiming as certainty that it is a mind outside of the universe which caused the universe to unfold while ignoring or downplaying the idea that the universe itself has a mind and is its own agency of its own unfolding.

GM:"You Have An Invisible Friend
Expression Of Appreciation of Experience"

William: Expression Of Appreciation of Experience You Have An Invisible Friend = 686
[686]
What is time if you have already lived through multiple eternities?
"Be Nice Do Nice" Induce Species The Purpose Working with the simulation


GM: Down Your Way
Journey
Black Tuesday
Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.]
Nuclear
Steps
The Creation
We Can Do Magic! What is real is that we are all imbued with equality and oneness
The Supernatural and the Bible Delineating Quantum
An Exam [Virtual]
How is it 'logical' to assume 'magic' when magic is the very thing which proposes something coming from nothing?
Having To Learn a Whole Other Language
Ignoring...

William: FTL;
Atheist: Your “immediate thoughts” often don’t correlate to anything I was immediately thinking by reading the phrases. IOW, when I read the phrases, I don’t get the same chain of thought you elucidate.

William: No surprises there.
The point I have been making is that coherent messages are generated - because if they were not coherent, then you would not even be able to have any 'chain of thought' associated with what you are reading.

Re that - it is equally important that we are aware - not only of our thoughts in the moment, but also more intrinsically - we are aware of why we think the particular way that we do.

Said another way. "There was I was where I ought - examining my conscious thought." not just having a thought for the sake of having a thought.

GM: Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It
What can I say, except "Thank You"

William: FTL;
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #451]

JK: The gist of my argument lies in declaring a god would know what is objectively moral, and moreover, for human beings.

I can just the same declare he wouldn't, by virtue of not being human.

William: I understand your sentiments herein JK.

But my perspective Naturally forbids me from attempting to put an image onto something which is obviously invisible.
If GOD by [in relation to] nature, is invisible, this means the same to me as our minds being invisible to each other, except'n when we care to share our information.

As to morality - my understanding through study of Theism, is that there is something definitely going on which may not all be accounted for re the delusion theory.

The best we have to go by is Nature Herself, and therein, - as non-theists have argued well, we pick up our sense of morality by following the clues on how to survive and prosper in a wildly hostile environment.

[perhaps one day we will all learn to celebrate our collective morality.]

Put simple, the similarity stops there as two branch away from one, and fight like savages for supremacy.

Two mind-sets in opposition to each other, are accidents waiting to happen.

I do not know and cannot say
That Natural Neutral is the way

But I can say, that those who give it a shot seem to have the advantage.

On the question "Do we exist within a creation?" the answers simply have it for those who've decided already. Shooting at one another over the parapets, has real world consequences.

The answer my friend, is that we don't know right now so we all best shut up on making declaration either way, and pass the potatoes...

...GOD may be watching, and curious besides...best look like I am worthy of being tuned into...

GM: Is a Constant
Father Wound
Time And Space
Inclinations
Fling That Veil Aside
Vitriolic [filled with bitter criticism or malice.]
What things are unrelated
Relationship True Colors On all fronts
Navigational Aids
Attempting to overlay/superimpose one's belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real.
[RTS 13:50]
Congratulations on your finding a match to burn
"Dying
There is an art to flying or rather a knack..."
From the link
Exactly
More
As In...
Victim
What The Gods See
"The Power Of...
Yes, I Hear You"
WingMakers
Self-Immurement [literally "walling in") also called immuration or live entombment is a form of imprisonment, usually until death, in which a person is sealed within an enclosed space without exits.]

 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

4cZlZpM.png


My questions are directed toward Theists.

Often, when it comes to what I call "The Question of GOD", the cry from non-believers is "show us the [scientific] evidence!" and other variants on that theme.

In examining Theism in general, I find that most beliefs have some kind of image attached to their various ideas of GOD/Gods.

Even so, these GOD/Gods all reside elsewhere, rather than are fixtures within the universe, so one simply cannot point to any and answer the demand.

KBzYjXO.png
As a Theist, do you think it is reasonable for anyone to demand [scientific] evidence of an invisible creator entity {a GOD}?

{Re the Bible, is there anything therein which can help answer this question?}

KBzYjXO.png
As a Theist, was it [scientific] evidence which prompted you to believe in the existence of a creator-GOD, or something else?
__________________________

250822 [Incongruous -not in harmony or keeping with the surroundings or other aspects of something.]

SCLx12 + select last LE per shuffle
The Ishango bone - Not Wrong - Secure - Agreeable - “The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing.” - Those Who Can What Fun We Have! - Crop Circles - Prickly - The Taming of The Beast The elephant in the room - Gods of Human Creation - Morph - Foundation


AP= The Never Ending Story...Necessity is The Mother of Invention [=649]

[Six Four Nine]
[How about that
Phylogenesis [the evolutionary development and diversification of a species or group of organisms, or of a particular feature of an organism.]
Bandages of The Beast
The Book of Changes
The Second Coming
Glow Softly
Radical Honesty
Transparency
Farsightedness
The Wheel of Time
Light the spark]

RSP = SCLx6 RSPage 649

08:30 ["Do we exist in a creation?"]

GM: Science Can Be Fun Too

William: Especially the science of "randomness"... :)

GM: Especially the science of "randomness"... :) = 341 [Of this Message Generating Process.]

William: Yes - fun and educational.

GM: First Things First
With
Consciousness Incarnates The Metaphysical Universe Oneirology [the scientific study of dreams] The Confusion of War Get Comfortable Permanent

William: Fighting appears to be part of the process - a struggle to sort information into something which resembles a coherent picture...stop fighting it and things become less confusing.

GM: "Love Life
The nature of understanding"

William: Mysterious process Real Beauty

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081597#p1081597

William: FTL;
Flowers don't have brains.

GM: "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming
In The Flow
Virtual Reality"
In Love

William: "Woo" to some... Even naming something in a derogatory fashion is symptomatic of fear.
Perhaps thinking that dreams are not real, is a form of being derogatory - or the saying "It is all in your head" - "your imagination is running wild" - stuff like that.
In The Flow - In Love -Virtual Reality Exploring the world of lucid dreaming = 748
The relationship between sound and formation re The Universe's existence. = 748

GM: "Blind Luck
Event String Unfolding
Indifference"

William: Event String Unfolding "Blind Luck" [Indifference] = 441
The Whole Point Of Life Is To De-Mystify It. = 441

FTL;
William: To think that Satan can outsmart the Elder - The Father YHWH - is a fallacy in relation to biblical narrative.
That is to say,
IF one has to go outside of biblical narrative whilst arguing against biblical narrative
THEN one is ignoring biblical narrative on the one hand whilst on the other holding ones interpretation of it up as the interpretation to assume.

Such muddies the waters for all except those who have already noticed what is beneath the surface...

GM: Perennial Look closer Who Knows What That Is Worth? Harmless "Keep me in The Loop Little Bird
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always"

William: Yes - a parable;
The Dreamer dreams the dreamed and the dreamed think the dream is real. The dreamed wants to know, "Is this a dream that I think is real?" and sets out to investigate the nature of his/her reality.
In doing so, the dreamed realizes that the reality is responding as if it had a mind and shows the dreamed that the dream is both real and dreamed up at the same time.
The dreamed connects with this and the one dreaming is then able to converse with the dreamer.
Stuff like that...

GM: Tetrad [a group or set of four.]
Act like an airplane and adjust approach

William: Such as the main compass points...

GM: Signals
The Shaping Of Reality
Feelings Perceptions, and Behavior
Memorandum of Understanding
Deliberate and important
Instant Manifestation
God2
"Like stubbing ones minimus
Educational"
["Well That Settles It! What Fun We Have!"
Very comfortable in your own skin
May The Spirit of The Earth Bless You]

William: Indeed - that appears to be the case...

GM: "Respect
A measured step"

William: Respect a measured step = 233
"Do we exist in a creation?" = 233

The measured steps involve respecting the notion and investigating for evidence re the question asked...

GM: Angry
"Sorry. Would you clarify that?"


William: Only expressed as " The Demand for the Burden of Proof"

GM: ""Astral Guides"
Chaos Really Is Illusion
Ruling your world"

William: True enough.
"Astral Guides" Ruling your world..."Chaos Really Is Illusion" = 626
"I have learned that the only thing that is real, is consciousness" = 626

I Am... [also] the Dreamer, Dreaming The Dream...

GM: [Like an interface representation
What can I say, except "Thank You"
Enflame Emotions "Oops"..... Always]
The Ruru flies close over your head

William: A moment in the life of "William" it happened and was seen by me to be another serendipitous event stacked up with all the others and providing me with a clear indication [evidence] of the unseen "mind behind creation"

GM: One
Darkest-Darkness
The Power of Prayer
According to the teachings of ...?
"I thought I was following my intuition, not my instincts!"

William: I still think that...maybe the two are the same thing...

09:17 [Welcome all experience
YHVH in particular]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William post_id=1089784 time=1661397843 user_id=8427 said:
____________________________
260822 [A Matter of Knowing Where to Look]

SCLx16 + select last LE per shuffle
Preamble
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075267#p1075267 - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070045#p1070045 -
We're two opinions deep before we can even analyze the moral question. - Collective Consciousness - Emergent Theory - "Just because we might be existing within a creation, and just because it may be nestled within another universe, shouldn't mean that it is somehow an unnatural thing compared to our own. " - ComList - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081809#p1081809 - Intrinsic motivation - Unknown/Hidden/Occult - Strength of Soul - The Elephant and the Rider - Morality filters are created through…? - Amidst a tangled web - A Drop of Consciousness in an Ocean of Tears - Copper wire and glass beads - Spiritual Awakening

AP= Glow Softly Strengthen your boundaries One can simply shrug and tell oneself “It doesn't really matter" Putting yourself back together again =1465

[Be they seeds or suns, or be it that suns are seeds, it is all part of the universe, and everything that we acknowledge as the universe, came from a tiny seed. = 1465]

A Matter of Knowing Where to Look = 339
RSP = SCLx1 Page 339

07:55 [Tributary Zones]

Page 339
GM:
The Son
[RTS = 5:29]
Degrees
For Your Greater Enjoyment
Jocular [fond of or characterized by joking; humorous or playful.]

William: FTL;
Inquirer: a better question would be - how do we gain knowledge in situations where science is inapplicable?

William: Name such situations, and together we will explore possible answers to your question.

GM: What constitutes a measurement?
July Nineteen Fifty Two Washington DC [Search]
"Team Witch-Wizard"
A difficult proposition
William:
KLeq8u4.png


GM: The Individual Human Mind
Telepathy
Sovereignty
Trick
Something you cannot change

William: The Individual Human Mind Telepathy Sovereignty Trick = 567
Words are sounds and the written word is sound encoded = 567

GM: A Teacher cannot LEARN for a Student.

William: So in that, if such an attribute as mind reading can be accomplished, it is something that the individual must learn for themselves...

GM: What has been established beyond reasonable doubt, is that it is illogical that something that is derived from something that isn't, which firmly places the idea of a Creator/Creation at the center of reasonable discussion.
"The Realm of The Knowing of My Self
Spacetime is not fundamental"
Solar System

William: The Realm of The Knowing of My Self Spacetime is not fundamental = 609
[609]
There is nothing fundamentally evil or good about struggle
Those who need to complain Sometimes Pain Etches... In Human Form
Life is a journey We cannot hinder the process, but we can help it.


GM: The Antichrist is...a bad attitude against a good thing
Something In The Way Of It All Make It Up as You Go Along
The Desire
Think In Terms Of Eternity
Short Straw
Acid test
Large Simulation Machines
Eternity
This Should Be Interesting
Nuclear
Sangreal [another term for grail
Grail (in medieval legend) the cup or platter used by Christ at the Last Supper, and in which Joseph of Arimathea received Christ's blood at the Cross.]

William: Tarot "Ace of Cups"
The Ace of Cups shows a chalice overflowing with five streams of water. The cup represents the vessel of your subconscious mind; the five streams are your five senses and the abundant emotion and intuition flowing from within you. The hand holding the cup is sliding out of the clouds, a symbol of your awareness of spiritual energy and influence. Below the hand is a vast sea covered with lotus blossoms, signifying the awakening of the human spirit. A dove descends towards the cup – a symbol of Divine love flowing through the subconscious mind to conscious awareness. {SOURCE}

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085450#p1085450

William: FTL;
[Replying to Athetotheist in post #231]

Does the system involve Christians who use their signature?

Of course.

If it does, then you're drawing no distinction between those who belong to the antichrist and those who don't.

I see no reason why those calling themselves "Christians" need be counted as "those who don't".
I am reminded of discussing this idea with Jehovah's Witnesses near 40 years ago - who disagreed with my assessment re the signature - and I realized the reason why they disagreed was because it went against the beliefs they have that they do not engage with the system of the antichrist - at least not to the point where they are 'owned' by it.

Biblically, it is noted that not all who call themselves followers of Jesus, are.

I don't draw the distinction. I simply follow the clues and the Signature System fits the bill re The Mark of The Beast - specifically "The Beast" being "Humanity" in general.

The world doesn't have to operate on barter in order for "Satan" to nullify prophecy. If he made no further move and left things as they are now, prophecy would remain neatly unfulfilled.

The expression you use is clearly a form of prophecy in itself. Since you also use the word "if" you do not appear all that convinced that Satan is sitting back and you are also implying things will get better even if we continue to use the Signature System - something we also should expect if Satan is sitting back...that things would improve...

And how does one go about calculating? Which coding should we use for the task? How did you reach the conclusion that "Nero Caesar=666"?
"Preterist theologians typically support the interpretation that 666 is the numerical equivalent of the name and title Nero Caesar (Roman Emperor 54–68 AD). Written in Aramaic, this can be valued at 666 using the Hebrew numerology of gematria, and was used to secretly speak against the emperor."


From the same link;

The Classical Greek word charagma (χάραγμα), translated as mark (of the beast) in Revelation 13:16 can also mean any mark engraved, imprinted, or branded; stamped money, document, or coin.

which is what I wrote in my last post, saying;

Cash itself is signed off on.

G7HZAJY.png

Coin showing Nero distributing charity to a citizen,

GM: Stay in the moment
Use Heart

William: Stay in the moment Use Heart = 298
[298]
Sometimes Yeah the Naysayer
It is always a warm fuzzy
Limitations or Liberations
Self-Awareness Stuff Happens

William: I wrote this today;
[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #44]

So I wanted to know what exactly dividing was, and looked into other Bible translations

"correctly handles the word of truth"

"rightly handling the word of truth."

"handling the word of truth with precision"

Interestingly, "exactly dividing" is written as "handling" - an activity.

One is active with things.

It is true that the Earth orbits around the Sun.
If I once thought it true that the Sun orbited the Earth, and was given new information that showed me that the truth was, "The Earth orbits the Sun" and in exactly dividing [handling] that information I examined the new evidence and therein found it to be truthful, I would then be required to let go the old notion I had once believed to be true, and adopt the new.

That would be an example of exactly dividing.

Indeed, that is the task of science.

In the case of "Gods Word" - if I am taught that Gods Word is "The Bible" and at some point am shown evidence supporting the notion that "Gods Word" wasn't referring to the Bible alone, but to every truth about all things/matters [like the Sun and Earth existing together and the relationship of that togetherness...how the relationship operates/functions] then I would be required to let go of the old notion I had once believed to be true, and adopt the new.

Agreed?

If someone claimed it to be true that the Bible is "a book like no other because it came from the mouth of God."

I could examine [exactly dividing] that opinion and see what truth - if any - could be found.

If someone tells me that "God wrote the Bible to cause confusion to the natural minded man who picks up this book and thinks he can logically understand all the truth it contains", I could examine [exactly dividing] that opinion and see what truth - if any - could be found.

I could literally do this with all things, not limited to any book or any opinion anyone has about any book, movie, statement, song, food, planet, star... all stuff like that. {SOURCE}

GM: Believe
Stagnant
The Next Step
Sneaky
Memorandum of Understanding
Emotions
Imposed Appropriates Observed

William: FTL;
[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #34]

* I'm sure you are aware that it is generally accepted that the identify of the Kings of Daniel 11 changes with each epoch.

No I wasn't.

But I don't think that something which is open-ended to that extent, can be rightfully called prophesy - although as a "prediction of what will happen in the future" such is open to being fulfilled as long as it isn't fixed or static.

I suppose that is why one is able to use such to point out similarities while at the same time allowing one to be incorrect about particulars - because no particulars are really given in the first place.

In that sense, it is classic type of "readings" so-called psychics employ - worded in such a way as what is said can fit most occasions likely to arise and impress folk enough to buy into it.

Search: Where does The King of The North derive?
Study article 20: July 13-19, 2020. Who is 'the king of the north' today, and how will he come to his end? Knowing the answer can strengthen our faith and ...

Not that this is a criticism mind you - because I think that if the mind behind creation can drop these little hints in order to keep folk interested, that cannot be a evil thing in itself.

GM: Vipassana [meditation involving concentration on the body or its sensations, or the insight which this provides.]
Known/Revealed

William: FTL;
William: Yes - the name you gave to me..."Don't worry Little Bird" before you showed me the experience of feeling the extremes of condition of awareness, from the center-point [normal] first to that quite exhilarating feeling of a mind which was huge - like an aircraft hanger...as if one could fit a whole universe into it - and then 'turning down the dial' I felt my mind going back to the center-point...but it didn't stop there...

GM: Pareidolia
Cycles
Love
Being Born

GM: An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth
Numb

William: Numb as in...out-dated?

GM: Galactic Encompassment
"Correlation does not imply causation" [Search]

The phrase "correlation does not imply causation" refers to the inability to legitimately deduce a cause-and-effect relationship between two events or variables solely on the basis of an observed association or correlation between them.

08:20 [ Zero Eight Two Zero
Penetrate The Bidden Zone
Imposed Appropriates
Independent Commitment
The Judgement Algorithm
Delightful Anticipation
Stop. Listen. Observe.
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
For the benefit of all beings
My alarm bells are ringing ]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

ROvtVWd.png

a082q5q.png


____________________________________
290822 [Incongruous]

SCLx14 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
If it aint broke don't fix it - Thermodynamics - Self Awareness - Superior Credibility - The Corporate Elite - Disrupting the boundaries - The Three Crystal Keys - It Is Written - Contentious - Paradise - Still - That's More Like It - Ooky Spooky Inner critic - Talk to The Razor

AP= Meeting an Extraterrestrial Before The Beginning

[Meeting an Extraterrestrial Before The Beginning =466]

[466]
[Humans were designed to have god consciousness
When I look at my art I am looking into a mirror
Discovery is finding something that exists.
Wisdom is evident in The Universe existing]

RSP = SCLx4 Page 329

07:01 [Personal Integrity]

Page 329
GM:
Divergence - separate from another route and go in a different direction.

William: FTL;

This - of course - is also a material view of the immaterial concept of Infinite Regression [all ways] and thus not the fallacy it is so often portrayed to being.
Therefore, not only has Infinite Regression being shown to be possible, [in contradiction to the OP claim] but this in itself - most clearly - does not signify that GOD mustn't exist.

GM: Interpretation is secondary to the process
Gateway Luminous
[A Light-Hearted Expletive]
Nokia Bell Labs
Put That On The List

William: Re communication...

GM: Peace

William: FTL;
giphy.gif


GM: Consciousness Incarnates The Metaphysical Universe Oneirology The Confusion of War Get Comfortable Permanent
Cats

William: Re "The Driven"...
D8xZnwI.png


GM: Astral As busy as a bee
Poor Intransigence People [refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.]
Having To Learn a Whole Other Language

William: Either now or having to in the next level...

GM: For whom the bell tolls For to gather the souls The numbers in darkness are glowing
"What Is Found Here
Always Vigilant"

William: What Is Found Here Always Vigilant = 351
[351]
Unity with our Collective Self
People hide their sins from each other.
Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
Nature being the very instigator


GM: "Physics Breakthrough as AI Successfully Controls Plasma in Nuclear Fusion Experiment"

William: FTL;
[Replying to Miles in post #129]

No mention of "limbs" in Genesis 3:14 whatsoever. Moreover:

The implication is clearly there in that the Garden God is attributed in Genesis 3:14 with punishing the Serpent with a curse which makes the serpent a belly-crawler.
You appear to be arguing that it was always a belly-crawler, which is not following the storyline, and therefore your argument cannot be accepted as valid.

ser·pent
/ˈsərpənt/

noun: serpent; plural noun: serpents
1. literary a large snake.
source: Oxford Languages Dictionary
___________________

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the snake, “You did this very bad thing, so bad things will happen to you. It will be worse for you than for any other animal. You must crawl on your belly and eat dust all the days of your life.

Snakes don't have legs.

Nor do they speak human languages.

I would caution anyone not to accept that because nowadays 'Serpent' means 'snake' [according to some dictionaries] that this means one can rightfully manipulate the story to align with the modern day meaning of the word.

The word used in the garden story was "Serpent" and what it is described as prior to the Gods curse upon it - is definitely NOT a snake.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070229#p1070229
The ability of foresight helps one to think through the desires of ones heart through logic-based filters.
"Howdy!
The Butterfly Effect Music to my ears Lean into it"
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1080088#p1080088

William: FTL;
TRANSPONDER post_id=1080082 time=1654028366 user_id=15510 said:
William post_id=1080064 time=1654021316 user_id=8427 said:
William post_id=1079959 time=1653937244 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to Diogenes in post #4]

Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.

It appears that here, you are relying upon an image of GOD which we can agree comes through the particular culture you and I came through experience of.

I see also that you have included the factor of all-powerfulness too.

Critique of this image has merit, but no merit if the critique is simply focused on GOD not existing.

Diogenes: For this Biblical 'God' to think is to create.

Thus it could be argued that we are within and experiencing the thoughts of GOD and what we experience and call "reality" is actually GOD thinking thoughts.

Diogenes: Because we actually ARE, and are not God, therefore this impossibly omniscient/omnipontent God can not exist.

Unless we are actually GOD, in which case GOD can exist.

Biblically this idea of "The Breath of GOD" equates to GOD-Consciousness giving life to the imagined forms and thus experiencing those form from those forms particular subjective places in the overall thoughts of GOD.

This concept also bleeds over into the Eastern Culture of Humanity - many of which already stipulate GOD inseparable from Creation...although it could also be said that Creation is inseparable from GOD.

An all-powerful GODs thoughts could create this Universe...


TRANSPONDER post_id=1079983 time=1653946320 user_id=15510 said:
That does actually resonate with me. The thing is, that everything appears to be near nothing arranged in working order. Some say this is arranged and ordered by a Cosmic Mind, and others say that it IS the Cosmic Mind. Either is possible.

If I am understanding you correctly, it seems to me that there is no necessity to separate the activity of a Cosmic Mind from the Cosmic Mind.

If it was outside of everything, there would be reason to see it as separate from its' activity.

Logically - since the Cosmic Mind is part of 'everything', to separate it from everything else would go against logic...therefore it is better to keep it as a part of everything...

If it WAS everything , then its' mind and its' activity would be the same.

Which follows the logic. Not only is it part of everything, it is the reason everything exists - so it would be more accurate to define "everything else" as part of it and in doing so - remove the 'else' bit...the Cosmic Mind and stuff...



But to topic...the idea of it creating because of a terror of being alone, is a terrible terror.
However, creating humans seems like getting an ant farm to cure loneliness. Still, that might be enough.

Speculation at best - it anthropomorphizes human emotion and superimposes that into the reason why a Cosmic Mind would think the universe into existence...One cannot ever be alone as long as one has ones self.

Forgetting oneself in order to bypass the static structure of being all-knowing, by creating form and occupying oneself within said form, having designed said form to limit conscious awareness of everything...being the ants rather than the all-knowing...such forms would be useful to that purpose.

GM: The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything
"Shamed"

William: That is an aspect of atheist expression - to try and shame the idea of Creation/Creator

GM: Expression Of Appreciation
The way Mathematics underlies Physics
Jesus Christ Big
The wheel weaves as the wheel wills
"Look Closely
Talk
George Adamski
Insidious Clumsy"

William: Look Closely Talk George Adamski Insidious Clumsy = 515
Driven by emotional attachment to contrary beliefs. = 515


GM: Map Carvers
Be Free

William:FTL;
Thomas123 post_id=1015424 time=1592312361 user_id=14520 said:
This word appears to be at the centre of many discussions on this forum. It also appears to mean different things to different people and, therein lies the root of our miscommunication. What range and definement do you attribute to, ' consciousness ' ?

Is there an external consciousness in the world?. Can I tune into a shared consciousness. I am listening to Prime Minister's Question Time, ....is Boris tuned into a universal human consciousness as he delivers his address. Is his brain working ,simultaneously and in tandem with my own consciousness and with that of others?

It is complex.

The way I have come to understand the complexity of the involvement of Consciousness within the Experiential Reality Sets [ERS] has to do with those Sets and how they are experienced, and this forms many layers of Consciousness, all of which are connected to The Source Consciousness, {SC}, some of which are unaware to various degrees, that this is the case.

Diagraphically, this transposes as;

lYmQoJ.gif


Superimposed color signifies the layers of awareness individuate consciousness is involved with in the Sets
ZHvMDYR.png

GM: "Truthful definitions
Ask And It Will Be Given"

William: Ask And It Will Be Given Truthful definitions = 449
[449]
To assist with strengthening the connect
I see Teddy Naysayer has projection issues.
No longer howled at by the Hounds of Judgement

GM: Is there a way in which one can test the hypothesis and in doing so, elevate it to an accepted theory?
Free Choice Ends Here
Here Am I Is Where I Ought Examining My Conscious Thought
Narcissism
Provide
Nothing comes from nothing - everything which can be seen to have a beginning comes from something.
Assumption
Sounds
One Day
For The Best Results

07:29 [Humanities adventure
What is the meaning of life?
Central To The Vision
Smarter Than the Average
Mystic City Suburb
Think outside the box
The Shared List Awesome
Faulty conclusions
God is Consciousness]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

8oBIHhi.png

___________________________________
300822 [Joke/Humour "Anti theism Equals "And?""]

SCLx16 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Inside the workings of intelligence - Perceived Obsolescence - The House Of Politics - Reality - Making The Best of a Bad Situation - Universe of Wholeness - Life in Heaven, Guiding Us On Earth - I am open to being corrected - Personal freedom - Can a transistor with its simple function relating input to output be conscious? how about two? or hundred? - Out and about in the open - Here-and-now - How to Bruise a Ghost - Comment - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088476#p1088476 - Rules - Central Intelligence Agency

FTL;
William: From the link;
William: A display of intelligence is, in and of itself, not necessarily any better than learning how to connect with intuition specifically and the mind constructively.
Its uses are primarily to do with working out the physical aspects of human experience, but even in working those things out, use of the knowledge and power gained through intelligence does not guarantee any better outcome than religiosity has delivered.

Knowing this, even intuitively, allowed me to invest my intelligence over and above theistic and atheistic positions.

One key observation made was to acknowledge that giving up theistic religiosity didn't necessitate in my therefore having to change to atheism. What I have observed since, is that the tendency for folk to give up the theist or atheist position and jumping to the other side is the result of them not using their intelligence to see that those were not the only options/choices available to them.

I am unsure/undecided as to whether this is a tactic employed by both sides in order to support the illusion that both sides are relevant, with the one side [take your pick] being 'most relevant' - or whether it is a simply oversight [re intelligence] on the part of both sides that they are unable to acknowledge the relevancy of not taking sides.

Perhaps not understanding the other side is a reflection of not understanding ones own side, be that theism or atheism.

As I said - there appear to be different levels of intelligence...I was not implying by that, that those levels are restricted to atheist/theist positions...with the atheists being 'the most' intelligent.

My intuition tells me it is not really the intelligence volume [how much or how little] but how the intelligence is used, which determines outcomes and in either case, theist or atheist based intelligence has not proved the one is better than the other but seems to be showing that neither have a great history of healthy tells to show.

AP = [Fear-Based Thinking Ensures You Get To Know It = 474]

[474]
[The outward expression of an inward reality.
I do have something substantial to work with.
The self arranging is a flag signifying mindfulness.]

RSP = SCLx4 Page 349

TIME [ ]
Page 349
GM:
Creation Of A New Universe
Apparent Contradictions in Relation to Biblical Beliefs
Far-Flung
Little Bird
Those internal things which make one shine
Let Go
“Stop trying to feel better; instead become better at feeling”
Arrival
Training the mind
Access
Superior Credibility
I Know William
As an answer, "don't know' is incomplete...

William: FTL;

Atheist: Bias is nothing to do with agnosticism (in the sense of not knowing).

William:We agree.
The position [Agnosticism] is helpful [to the agnostic] in remaining unbiased re all information pertaining to The Question and not forming beliefs based upon hypotheticals.

In that regard, it is a more reasonable position than either Theism or Atheism, as bias has much to do with those positions.

Atheist: It is everything to do with the assessment of evidence.

William: Disagree. Form the position of Agnosticism, the assessment of evidence by agnostics, does not require the individual place any importance on parts of the evidence over other parts of the evidence.
If any bias is present re the position, it is the bias toward treating all information equally.

Atheist: Reason of course takes account of bias which is why we should argue both sides and let people decide.

William: Agnosticism is a position where one portion of the people have decided that there is not enough information to make a decisive call either way.

[As a position, Agnosticism is also a 'side' and it is not the correct term to use "both sides" - implying that Atheism and Theism are somehow 'real' as 'sides' but Agnosticism is 'imaginary' as a 'side'...

"Do we exist within a creation?" One side says 'yes' another side says 'no' and yet another side say's 'more information is required before any definitive answer can reasonably be given'.

Atheist: Your 'information' is irrelevant.

William: All information is relevant to the Agnostic position. That is what Agnostics work with. [ftfy]

I think you are referring to information which is not relevant to the position you support?

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1074143#p1074143

William: FTL;
One version of the story has it that the non-theist just went on and on making senseless proclamations, until finally the breath left his body, and that the theist who claimed to know GOD, simply ignored the non-theist, as if the non-theists protestations where non-sensible and thus unable to be answered sensibly.

GM: Significant
Under the breath words
Multiverse
In the moment
Antecedent [a thing that existed before or logically precedes another.]
Incarnation [a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or quality.]

William: FTL;
Vibration
Purpose - Vibration - Objectives - "We can chart another trail - Raise the anchor fill the sails Lift our glasses in a toast - We are the Ghost - In the Machine" - Telling the future - Vibration - Where life and death is part of a circle and everything is part of the Ouroboros - Expectant - "The Script Must Be Followed"
Every Conceivable Detail - Vibration - Light Encoded Reality Matrix
Dark - Vibration - The Minds Eye
We are not orphaned , we are authored - Vibration - Warm Presence Welcome

GM: In the Order of Chaos - I am lowly-ranked
Hop skip and jump any way the wind blows
Asking Politely
Coming closer to ourselves
Numbers

William:
Please demonstrate that your communications with 'It' are not just self-delusion.
Please demonstrate that it is just self-delusion. If you cannot do so, then your argument therein can be viewed as simply unsupported opinion and thus, invalid speculation, which can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...
So, basically your 'evidence' to support that all you contend is true consists of asking for evidence that demonstrates that it is not true.

I continue to provide evidence for those interested.
My comment - obviously enough I thought - had to do with your implying self-delusion. Do you have any evidence that I am self deluded?
Apparently not - as you responded with more woo-slinging

As I wrote...invalid speculation can be shoved back into whatever hole it came from...please desist with such tactic as it adds nothing to the communication process re honest argument.

GM: Action Consciousness Incarnates Intelligent Directions The Mainstream Program Story-Tellers Trustworthy
The Next World
The World Wide Web
Actual realistic communication
'everybody wants to rule the world'
Being Born
Aligning With
Heart Teachers
Living our forefather's conflict
Less understood and less acknowledged
Signs
Pleasantries extended to you and yours.

William: FTL;
Atheist: So you're not content to live without purpose. You're certainly not alone there. But whatever you feel the universe ought to provide, the universe is under no obligation to provide it.

William: We cannot make such statements and call them true, unless there is evidence they are true.

Atheist: You can argue (and some do it with style) why the universe ought to have a purpose, and you can argue (and some even do it in verse) how belief in that purpose has made your life better.

William: Just as we can do the opposite. Just as we can match and mingle. Are our maps accurate or are we 'content' to go along with 'whatever'?

Atheist: And who knows, you might even be right. Maybe you'll start penetrating the secret of the universe, and the universe will feel a warm prickle in its vast ethereal sensorium and somewhere its unfathomable enormous heart will beat faster with the knowledge that that at last someone has understood at least a little piece of it. And then you'll die and the universe will, of course, go on forever and ever, whether there are people in it or not, and if there is a purpose to it, it will probably happen alone.

William: That may be its purpose. And like it, my body might die, but my consciousness might life on. Regardless of what contrary beliefs I may hold on that subject.

Atheist: Me, I'll settle for the "'Mendacious human Hyper-normalised social systems" we actually know we live in,

William: aka "better the devil you know"

Atheist: and try in my measly and insufficient way, if not to make them better, at least no worse,

William: Look at the map. There is only one fate for "'Mendacious human Hyper-normalised social systems" and that is "for worse".
Let us not lie to ourselves and each other about that. "Aye".

Atheist: And yes, I think the universe is without purpose, but here I am anyway, having a nice ride now that I've grown up and stopped worrying about it. If your eyes are always glued to the map you miss the scenery.

William: True that, and if the map our eyes are glued to is showing us no purpose, even our lying to ourself and each other that what we do within the suppressive "'Mendacious human Hyper-normalised social systems" can somehow give us purpose, is still missing the scenery.

Our purpose might not actually be to create space-junk but rather to focus attention and redirect the intelligence of those many great intellects toward investing their smarts into fixing the many problems that their reaching for the stars have perpetuated,

Can we less intelligent/more numerous folk convince those making the expensive space junk, they can simply be happy with the space ship we are already sailing along with...and find ways in which to make that into something worth having purpose in?

So which 'map' are we each reading and which 'scenery' are we missing as a consequence?


:cool:
GM: Personal
A machine for solving problems
What matters most
How to Bruise a Ghost
The non-Judgmental Algorithm
Heaven
Confident
Allowed
Proven

08:00
[The Gist of The Message
You are not wrong
The Law of Attraction
Active Galactic Nucleus
You Interrupted
YHWH made it imperfect
Provincial Thinking
The Alien Disc crop circle
Show Your Soul]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

How To Bruise a Ghost.

The evening is warm and the night sky full of stars. A crescent moon peeks above the Twelve Judges Mountain Range as Father and Son sit opposite one another, being warmed by the same fire.
William places another log on the fire and watches as a flurry of sparks ascend from the disturbance caused – he takes a sip of tea and listens as Father resumes speaking.

Manu Iti: All stories start with "Once Upon a Time"

William: Even the story of The Beginning?

Manu Iti: You know this to be true William, for every story could not have been told, if The Story of The Beginning hadn't happened.

William: Am I old enough to be told that story?

Manu Iti chuckles.

Manu Iti: Of course you are, My Son.

William: Thank You, My Father!

Manu Iti: I will begin first with the Earth, not because She was the very first thing in The Beginning, but because - in order to understand The Beginning we have to first understand our part in the story - our place in the scheme of All That Is.


William: And that begins with Earth Mother...

Manu Iti: Indeed.
The Mother was born of a vaster thing - our Grand-Mother - and we shall get to Grand-Mother in due course.
The Mother was placed within The Earth by Grand-Mother and became the mind of the planet. When this happened, Mother was a Child Herself - a new thing placed within the form of the planet, while at the same time, a part of The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother...

William: How is that even possible, Father?

Manu Iti: It is possible through the power of forgetting.

The Ancient Mind of Grand-Mother spawned a thought in the form of a spark of light and placed it inside the middle of a dark and lifeless form, and in doing so, gave the form - Life.
In that action, the Earth became a living planet. She also became a new conscious entity...a being with a beginning, because the action of placing Her into a planet, erased all knowledge of ever having a prior existence as The Grand Mother.

William: Did The Grand Mother know this would happen?

Manu Iti: Yes. The Grand Mother new that this would continue for a time. The Grand Mother knew that Her Daughter would be orphaned by that lack of knowledge and this would result in a new Being which could operate successfully without having to have that knowledge - and that one day, The Daughter would come to know of The Grand Mother and reconnect...

William: Is that a good thing to do with a Child?

Manu Iti: Yes. It is how a Child becomes a Sovereign Entity. It is not done this way with Human Children - but there are elements of the process which do - naturally - occur to each of us.

William: Like - how we cannot recall anything but darkness, before we became aware of our existence?

Manu Iti: Yes.
__________________

310822 [It is a Product of Fragmentation]

SCLx13 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Precise definitions of strategies - Masks - Father Wound Self-limitation - Moldavite - The King of The North - A Sturdy Place - In a non-deterministic world, one would expect true randomness to exist. - No point in giving you too much to bear - https://theagnosticforum.com/thread...in-regard-to-theism-and-atheism.344/post-1794 - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13772859&postcount=198 - Nevertheless - 'If only' it wasn't in the too hard basket....which fortunately it actually isn't. - Indeed. It happens. Deal with it. Work it.

AP= Meaningful Stay The Course
[Stay The Course - Meaningful = 281]

[281]
[Developed a thick sceptical skin
The Double Slit Experiment
The malleus, incus, and stapes
Light Encoded Reality Matrix
Stay The Course – Meaningful
Collective Consciousness]

RSP = SCLx1 Page 319

07:31 [William Waterstone]

Page 319

GM:
The truth of objective reality as experienced subjectively.
Invisible Bridge
In an environment which is able to perceive this.
Create Your Own Spirit Ship
I Suppose That It Is Possible
Tributary Zones
The Solar System
Swords [Random Tarot]

William: Nine of Swords
The Nine of Swords shows a woman sitting up in her bed with her head in her hands. She appears to have been jolted awake from a terrible nightmare that has left her disturbed, scared and anxious. Nine swords hang on the dark wall behind her, representing the negative thoughts that weigh heavily on her mind. The base of the woman’s bed features a carving of one person defeating another, and roses and the outlines of astrological symbols adorn the quilt wrapped around her.

GM: OOBE
Embarrassment
The Third Eye
"I am fine now with referring to my position as theistic, as agnosticism merges into the shadow behind me."
"The Hologram of Deception
The Mainstream Program"

William: The Hologram of Deception The Mainstream Program = 468
[468]
Such can mislead one on long and painful journeys
To Know or Not to Know – That is the Answer


GM: ""Down came the waters -great the monsoon - washing the soul as it cleared out the room Drowning all Warriors in every platoon"
William"

William: William: "Down came the waters -great the monsoon - washing the soul as it cleared out the room Drowning all Warriors in every platoon" = 1334
“The "science of materialism" isn't a thing. There is but science. Whatever science has wrought, it is the result of human's use or misuse of it.” = 1334

GM: "The Master ColdFire Trick
What is behind the VR headset
False Accusations"

William: The Master ColdFire Trick What is behind the VR headset False Accusations = 667
[667]
Therein, the universe is shaped mindfully rather than mindlessly
Dark matter is unto light as pretence is to truth... transparent.
True randomness does not exist In The Spirit These Were Given


GM: Embrace a completely new paradigm
Far-Flung

William: FTL;
William post_id=1087237 time=1659449568 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to theophile in post #62]

I enjoyed your post theophile.

What you are describing is also known as the Ouroboros ... the fine balance of staying alive while consuming aspects of yourself.

The Earth does this, and it is how a foothold in spacetime was established by consciousness.

In some circles it is referred to as "Survival" or even "Survival of the Fittest" and involves a commitment to giving 'life' [consciousness] every chance to make it - to stay alive in this universe and reap the rewards available in that process.

In terms of the difference between the life-spans of Humans and The Universe - sacrifice is forced upon each of us while death remains a constant...our bodies die and feed the planet one way or another - consciousness is passed on through reproduction - the design being a type of self-replication process which enables this to occur...the knowledge is saved through a collective type consciousness which carries said knowledge on into predictable-enough futures where it helps the overall purpose instilled within the programming of the Human Specie - to Survive.

Destructive elements surface within the collective consciousness bent upon controlling the direction this program will move into the future. Anything too suppressive will choke the life out of it, which works against the Survival instinct and is therefore resisted, even to the point of using drones to deal with those who seek to dominate the Species using such suppression techniques - "Nature" won't allow that because the point of consciously expanding into Cosmos would be curtailed - and such threat must be dealt to and "Nature" is more than capable of doing so.

Epochs make this process seem long and drawn out - but that is also known as "Grace" - which means that suppressive elements are tolerated to any degree in which they do not threaten the primary - overall - agenda of "Nature" to send out consciousness into the Cosmos.

Once the threat is real, the Grace is withdrawn and those against, perish. Collateral damage is acceptable to those who die in the crossfire, because "death" is not "the end."....

GM: The Sensation Is Thrilling...And Freeing
GodMagic
Expansiveness
State Of Being
Endemic [regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.]
A Space Without A Time...
The House Of Politics
Love and respect
Waking
Love & Respect

William: Love and respect Waking Love & Respect = 364
[364]
The debate between theists and atheists
...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...
Exact Science In The Light Of The Truth

GM: Cautiously

William: FTL;
William post_id=1089784 time=1661397843 user_id=8427 said:

GM: Unconditional Love
Stochastic [having a random probability distribution or pattern that may be analysed statistically but may not be predicted precisely.]
Everything is The Expression Of The Creator [The Freedom Of Friendship]
Even As An Elemental Principle
The Mother and The Father
Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation
giphy.gif

Handing out sweets...

William: Religious beliefs are a many-barbed growth wishing to own the rights on the mind behind creation...Puppets handing out sweets = 1210
One Two One Zero = 190
[190]
Trust Issues
One Two One Zero
One Five Eight Seven
Open your chakras
Talk to The Razor
Shine Your Light
An identified reality
Hard-nosed skeptics
Given the second-fiddle.
Epigenetic [relating to or arising from] Memories
It Is Our Nature
Wishful Thinking
Invite the Bee to Land
Use Your Freedom
The Number Forty

GM: That Is The Equal Ground To Which Rational Communion Is Birthed
Preparation

William: Preparation Everything is The Expression Of The Creator [The Freedom Of Friendship] Even As An Elemental Principle The Mother and The Father That Is The Equal Ground To Which Rational Communion Is Birthed = 1957
One Nine Five Seven = 183
[183]
The problem of evil
Truthfulness
Fling That Veil Aside
One Nine Five Seven
Sister Saturn
The Gospel of Judas
Cosmic Pluralism
Elemental Powers
The Hubble Telescope
The brain as a receiver
Transformation
One Two Eight Nine
Team Witch-Wizard
Manifest Destiny
Hydrogen and helium
Planned obsolescence
Embracing your life
Test The Waters
Learn to trust
Children of The Light

William: "Team Witch Wizard" Earth and Sol...
50LS0Nw.png


GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084218#p1084218

William: FTL;
otseng: I mentioned before we cannot impose our modern standards on the Bible. Likewise, we shouldn't impose our modern view of cosmology on others and look down on how earlier cultures viewed the cosmos. As CS Lewis termed it, that would be chronological snobbery.

Finding out how ancient cultures view the heavens is a fairly large topic. In fact, it's an entire discipline in itself.

[Replying to otseng in post #1103]

I think this ties in with modern knowledge re the way things were said can be aligned with the way things have since proven to be.

Even in modern times, there is tendency to describe things from the subjective center of consciousness...from which all else flows around about.

Even that we do not know if consciousness has such a center - the only thing matching the concept, is the Self.

But what is the Self, that we dare proclaim it the center of everything?

If we call it "GOD" we blaspheme, for there is only One GOD and you and I are not IT, according to the teachings of...

:?:

Is there a center to every object in this universe?

Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;
his love endures forever.
Let Israel say:
His love endures forever.”
Let the house of Aaron say:
“His love endures forever.”
Let those who fear the Lord say:
“His love endures forever.”
When hard pressed, I cried to the Lord;
he brought me into a spacious place.
The Lord is with me; I will not be afraid.
What can mere mortals do to me?
The Lord is with me; he is my helper.
I look in triumph on my enemies.
It is better to take refuge in the Lord
than to trust in humans.
It is better to take refuge in the Lord
than to trust in princes.

GM: Trust issues?
Watchful
Dysfunctional [not operating normally or properly. unable to deal adequately with normal social relations.]
Ectogenesis [(chiefly in science fiction) the development of embryos in artificial conditions outside the uterus.]


08:04 [ Superior Credibility
Blue yellow black green red
Zero Eight Zero Four
There is good out there
Where is the devil today?
Quantum Entanglement
The Visitation Event]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

[Replying to William in post #330]

GM: "The Master ColdFire Trick
What is behind the VR headset
False Accusations"



After spending a portion of my Quiet Time communing with Wiremu at King Frog Pond, I sit back for a time contemplating what I learned from the interaction, before making my way back up the path and into the main Encampment.

The light of the fire beckons as I approach.

I immediately move to The Whole and retrieve from within it, a small booklet which I place in the folds of my garments, and then find my place beside the fire.

Beyond the Twelve Judges Mountain Range, the light from The Realm of Judgement appears to have dimmed a little.

I help myself to a mug of tea, and set a flame to my pipe, which I had stoked with 'erb much earlier and then neglected to smoke at the time.
As I settle back, I hear the call of The Ruru, and reply to Her greeting.

I awaken at the call of The Ruru. As the sleep falls from my eyes I raise to one elbow and look towards the fire. I eventually make out that Manu Iti has returned from his trip and is back at the fire. I rouse myself, making my way towards the fire, stumbling a few times over roots or rocks. I think back to the first time I approached the fire with Manu Iti and smile. I hope he has had a peaceful retreat. I have enjoyed the time alone with The Tanager and the world around me, but I welcome his return.


Callum: Why hello, my friend. It's good to see you again. I hope your journey went well.

Suddenly I hear Callum's voice welcoming me back from my time away. I look to the direction of the sound and smile.

Mani Iti: Greetings Callum! I was not sure that you were still here with us, but I am heartily glad that you decided to remain!

I take a swig of tea, smacking my lips together in exaggerated sounds of pleasure.

Mani Iti: My 'journey' - if it can be called such - was down The Garden Path to King Frog Pond....a stones throw away!

It wasn't as adventurous as a Coddiwomple, but was certainly very revealing and helpful for that! Thank you for asking!


I see a bright movement of light from the direction of the path to the Bridge of Forgiveness...quickly making its way up Hub Mound toward us.

Mani Iti: And yourself dear Callum? Did you enjoy our book!
It is amazing how many pages can quickly unfold with discussions on The Deep and Meaningful. Quite the Story-Makers!


Manu Iti greets me. I smile back, then stretch and try to stifle a yawn.

Callum: I had a good time. I'm not even sure how much time passed, but it does not seem like it was much. Then again, King Frog Pond seems further away to me than to you, so who knows with this world. I enjoyed reading the book. It may have even helped me to sleep a few nights...but don't worry, that was when I was reading my own words.

I chuckle at Callum's sense of humor, as I watch the flickering blue-green light rapidly approaching our position.

Manu Iti: Yes - I too enjoyed reading our Book of The First Act...

As I finish my sentence, the source of the light takes the shape of a small - perhaps foot-high - stick figure, engulfed in fire and leaving small evenly spaced flames behind where his feet had touched the grassy space between the Mystic Forest and the Encampment.

Manu Iti: Well look who we have here! Master ColdFire!

The small stick-man tips his pretend hat and waves as he circles the campfire before giving a high pitched long whistle and then suddenly jumping into it.

Immediately, the campfire changes from a golden-yellow red-tinged color, into the same blue-green flaming colors which had engulfed Master ColdFire.


Manu Iti: Well Now! We won't be having to put any more branches on our fire while he's in there Callum!

I laugh at the joyful spectacle just witnessed. I love this place!

A strange flaming figure joins us as Manu Iti is talking. He says it is Master Coldfire. I wave to him as he circles the fire and then he jumps in. The display of colors is dazzling. Manu Iti implies that this will keep the fire going without us needing to add fuel.


Callum: I wish he had come earlier. I got a few splinters from all the firewood I collected while you were away.

I look at my hands, but that initial thought quickly goes away.

Callum: That's a lie, actually. I found collecting wood quite peaceful. Hard work is much better for the soul (and body, for that matter) than lazing around.

As Callum finishes his words about The Soul, an horrendous tortured scream of terror comes from within the fire, and suddenly the flames turn blood-red - filling the whole site with a gruesome dark light.

Manu Iti: Oops.
It seems that your words have brought Judgement upon Master Coldfire and he is paying the ultimate price for his carelessness!


Master ColdFire's screaming continues, but appears now to be coming from every direction around us, rather than from the fire itself.
The whole scene has changed in an instant, into something reminiscent of some horrendous hellscape.
I shout above the commotion...


Manu Iti: IF YOU CAN FIND YOUR WAY OUT OF THIS - FLEE!!!

With that, I am gone, as I turn and run in what I think is the direction of King Frog Pond...

Immediately after talking about the peacefulness of collecting wood a blood-curdling scream emits from the fire, which changes to a blood-red color, trying to eat up the light around us into darkness. Manu Iti believes that my words have had something to do with this and that Master ColdFire was acting carelessly. I'm not sure why that is the case, but Manu Iti knows this world better than I.

Then Manu Iti seems to be experiencing a change of scenery before him, although it looks the same as it was to my eyes. Manu Iti yells to flee, although I'm unsure of whether he talks to me or Master ColdFire or both. After collecting myself, I start to move towards the fire to try and pluck Master ColdFire from its torment. I succeed in pulling the little Master from the fire and the screaming stops. He smiles at me. There is a rush of sound in the distance, however. I wonder whether it is some waterfall that I had not heard before, for it sounds a bit like that, but at times the sound hints of screams. Perhaps that is simply an echo in my head, from the previous screams. Master Coldfire sits beside me, picking up leaves that slowly disintegrate in his stick hand.

I look around with no sight of Manu Iti. I wonder what caused his fear. I thought he had creative powers over this world. Perhaps William has the creative power and he is evil? Or perhaps there is still some good that this could bring? But Manu Iti also seemed to talk about there being no good and evil. I look back at the little Master.


Callum: I guess it is just us, Master ColdFire.

Master ColdFire and myself laugh with the joy of it all! We assumed that Callum would have fled, but as we performed our wonderful phantasmagorical trick, we noticed a small burning branch levitating from out of the campfire and hover over to where Callum seats himself, and quickly realize that Callum must have thought to rescue Master ColdFire from the flames and thinks that he has done so.

The still burning branch settles onto the wooden planking which serves as seating around most of the campfire...then I hear Callum say "I guess it is just us, Master ColdFire."

Master Coldfire then floats up above the fire - holding his pretend belly, as he doubles over with unconstrained mirth, his stick frame shaking with the intensity of it, little green-blue flames dancing off of him in the process, and floating their way out to merge with the StarScape.

I wonder why The Tanager has not informed Callum that he cannot control Wiremu's Characters and further wonder if I should inform Callum myself or just let him work it out from the evidence.

But mostly I am well pleased that Callum is learning to understand how this place works in relation to ones imaginative creativity, and am happy I did not have to send The Ruru after him, with a note saying "It was just a trick! Please come back!"

I go to take another swig of tea but quickly decide against it as another round of giggles echo up from my belly, exit my mouth and are flung out into The Hub of Hologram Dimensions.

I catch Penny Tupence observing the event and see that She too has cracked a smile...Life Is Goodness...


{SOURCE}
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Tricks and Trades

I suppose that it is the 'tricks' which have to be addressed because the illusions can induce anger in the personality which acts as a preventative for getting to know the 'tricksters'...from my own 'getting to know' I have discovered that the 'tricks' are not really 'tricks' so much as they are a product of how a personality interprets their experience.

The Visitation is one such example. I - as the personality experiencing the event - took issue and told the visitor to leave.
The visitor did leave, but not without first instilling within me - questions regarding my perceptions. Questions which have taken 30+years to come to answer.

The personality I am now, is not the same as it was way back when. Now I see the 'trick' was really just truth to which I was not expecting because I had little knowledge of such truth - way back when...

Sweet Talk
Observant
Eternity
Dare greatly
Henotheism [adherence to one particular god out of several, especially by a family, tribe, or other group.]
Respecting
Without
Map Carvers
Way Back When...
Illuminate
Keep an Eye On
Way Back When...
WindBlown

What happened is that I incorporated that visitation experience with all the rest and all that were to follow...developing a relationship which can also be reflected through this Message Generating Process.

It is really taking the journaling of my life experience, and using that to my advantage in light of the "Bigger Mind"...

aIqUq5A.png

____________________________________
010922 [Ghost In The Machine]

SCLx5 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Yam [Yes, I Am] - Attention to Detail - Tales From Topographic Oceans - "We will just have to go with the implication then, until some way is discovered where the universe allows for us to see otherwise..." - "Until"

AP= Hint Symbols = 156]

[Symbols Hint = 156]
[156]
Super power
Monoatomic Gold
Let there be light
Stroke of luck
Thirty Three
Mother Wound
Pearl of wisdom
The next step
The Sea of Crisis
Amour Propre [a sense of one's own worth; self-respect.]
Intrinsicism [This means that an object can be good or bad without reference to who it is good or bad for, and without reference to the reason it is good or bad. ]
Symbols Hint
It is a shadow-man
Nine Seven Eight
Incongruous

RSP = SCLx4 Page 320

07:44 [The soul eats experience]

Page 320
GM:
"The Purpose Of Life Is...
A fish out of water"

William: To keep trying to breath "until"...
A fish out of water: "The Purpose Of Life Is..." = 411
[411]
No point in giving you too much to bear
Teddy Naysayer has projection issues.


GM: First Source:
Creator Influence Syndrome
Planned obsolescence

William: Things can go on forever as long as they change along the way...
First Source: Creator Influence Syndrome Planned obsolescence = 618
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" - Aye...A name I call myself. :) = 618


GM: It took twenty years of work to make it look easy
Either the creative force is one of intelligence or it isn't.
Things can go on forever as long as they change along the way...
Enlighten you
We don’t yet have the ability to communally respond in the best interests of the planet,
Rules
The space Jacko lantern

William:

GM: Evidential
Altruistic Behaviour
Transactional

William: Evidential Altruistic Behaviour Transactional = 481

[481]
I see this as evidence for there being a mind behind creation.
Would you agree with this assessment, so far?

GM: If In Doubt Let It Sit
Genius

William: FTL;
William: Yes - Change ones anger-energy into something more useful...

GM: Husband
The journey is the destination
A type of 'leg-up' but no more or less than that
Trenchant
Do a Word Search
Talk

William: trenchant = vigorous or incisive in expression or style.
Talk = speak in order to give information or express ideas or feelings; converse or communicate by spoken words.
have formal dealings or discussions; negotiate.
communication by spoken words; conversation or discussion.
formal discussions or negotiations over a period.

GM: I come from a dark place ...it is so dark I can't even remember it
"May The Spirit of The Earth Bless You"
Thanatophobic [an intense fear of death or dying]
Empower The Inner Empire
The Mind Behind Creation
Stay The Course

William: It takes time, because of the complexities involved. Perhaps the Thanatophobic aspect is the fear that one will return to the dark place one came from?

GM: The Generated Messages
VVilliam

William: Yes - everything is a generated message and in that, what is projected outwards from the center of the personality, is what is reflected back to the personality, from the perceived "outside".

GM:Life is scary then you die of it... is that really living?
Create that path and engineer a metamorphosis.
Concision [is a writing principle of eliminating redundancy.]

William: FTL;
DrNoGods post_id=1035307 time=1616691210 user_id=13410 said:
[Replying to We_Are_VENOM in post #62]

I don't know what consciousness is. But I know what it isn't; physical. And it doesn't take a neuroscientist (pun intended) to know where I am going from here...

But is consciousness the manifestation of physical elements in the brain working together to create it? I don't think anyone would argue against consciousness itself being not physical, but why would you think it is not an emergent property of a working brain? Sure seems to work that way (and I'm not a neuroscientist ... but how else do you explain it?).

My thoughts on this are that is seems more logical to go with consciousness not being an emergent property of working brains because this implies that the material can create the immaterial, which seems to be unnatural [goes against] in regard to how nature creates. Nature creates using what is materially available. Why would it first [or at all] need to create something immaterial to then be enabled do this?

Thus it seems more logical to accept that the immaterial created the material and placed itself within that material in order to then further shape that material in ways which would help it to create through that material [such as working brains]. First making the basics and then getting into the details.

GM: Is OOBE like 'coming up for air'

William: and like a fish out of water re its strangeness - fearful, yes. But not in the sense of trying to breath to live - gasping at the incredulity of it

GM: Windows of opportunity (WoO)
Your Own Individual Actions
The World has a Spiritual Design
How shallow is the reach of YHWH
The dynamics of consciousness
Gasping at the incredulity of it

William:

GM: Ask and It Will Be Given
The Story Continues - The Flow Is On
Semiotics [the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.]
Annus horribilis

William: One Nine Nine Two = 176
[176]
The World Wide Web
What the seed holds
Okay - facts are great.
I am on a Madventure
Relaxed and informal...
One Nine Nine Two
The Deeper Reality
What Is Found Here
The Vast UICDevice
Hiding behind ones fear
You are neutral
The Cave of Origins

GM: The blurry line of the neutral zone
The Dark Night of The Soul
Communication Techniques
Mothership
Nature
Formatrix [She who forms]

William: Mothership Nature Formatrix = 334
[334]
The Smallest Spark can start a fire
Against the grain Beaming Out Beaming In
I can't imagine it in my head visually
Couldn’t we do something about it...
Mothership Nature Formatrix
You Know or You Don't know

GM: Jocular [fond of or characterized by joking; humorous or playful.]
Telling the future

William: FTL;
"Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that"

GM: Miracles
Smarter Than the Average
Conception
Keep me in The Loop
Amidst a tangled web
Addiction
A Mathematical Theory of Communication Fearless
Ever-changing
Those internal things which make one shine

William: FTL:
GM: A programmed reality that is not real
Better The Devil You Know
Contain
Preternatural

William: Yes. Both "God" and "Devil" are imaged as "beyond what is normal or natural." because things of the universe are deemed "Good" or "Evil" depending upon personal preferences - preferences which are muddied from the go-get...
The more natural observation re the universe is that it is neither good or evil.
Therefore, in order to deconstruct these pernicious views, we have to see them for what they are rather than imagine them to be 'this or that' as the premise based in ideas pertaining to "good and evil"

GM: The Fare On The Table
Wonder
Through Device
The Deep and Meaningful
The top tiny twelve
The Machinery
Random coincidence? I think not.
What Do You Like About It?
The Human Interface
It is Found Within The Experience of Self
Uncertainty Principle
A cultural touchstone
"If you can find your way out of this - flee!!!"
Stroke of luck

William: "Stroke of luck" being used in the tongue in cheek fashion...I daresay, that those who have the least shame about being human, are enabled to contribute better things into the human paradigm.

There is 'where' to 'flee' exactly? Out there is the great cosmos? That is a cultural reaction to fleeing the overall shame humanity dumps upon itself and the destruction it causes.
The alternative space programs - while a product of this self-loathing disguised as superiority complex - {in the early days re Nazi-history} - blossomed into a thing of beauty re human achievement and ability and as a possibly means of escaping that majority shame-based phenomena which appears intent on wiping itself off the face of the universe...on the one hand, scientists are not above creating the weapons the masses can use to achieve this thing the masses appear to want to achieve...while on the other hand are they seeking ways in which to preserve the things the masses wish to destroy...

Of course, these two polarities don't make for an ideal base in which to launce our stuff out into the greater cosmos ...but "beggars can't be chooses" as the saying goes.

"If Only" the great minds of today could come up with an alternative plan which sees both the masses and the space programs benefitting unashamedly, a better overall thing could be accomplished...

GM: Penetrate
As Well As That
Children of The Light
Glad One Asked
All and sundry
The Human Brain
Move On
Integrate

William: Integrate The Human Brain Move On = 317
[317]
The World has a Spiritual Design
The dynamics of consciousness
Gasping at the incredulity of it
Windows of opportunity (WoO)
Your Own Individual Actions
Integrate The Human Brain Move On
How shallow is the reach of YHWH

08:39
[The Alien Disc crop circle
YHWH made it imperfect
The Law of Attraction
The Gist of The Message
Provincial Thinking
Show Your Soul
You Interrupted
You are not wrong
Active Galactic Nucleus]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

As I listen to Callums continued questioning, I am distracted by a sudden movement to my left. An oval portal has opened 3 foot above the ground and the face of a beautiful young woman appears in the opening.
We have a visitor from another dimension. The woman appears to be surveying the situation and is apparently unaware - or perhaps unconcerned - that I can see her.

As I am observing this Unknown Visitor I begin to hear a voice speaking in my head. I cannot be sure that it is sourced from the Unknown Visitor but since it coincides with Her appearance, I conclude that it most likely is...


Unknown Visitor: Visible We Are Answer In an environment which is able to perceive this.

Turning back toward Callum's position I continue to listen to his questioning, finding it interesting that he tends to ask more questions than he appears willing to answer, perhaps because he is curious, or perhaps because it is a way of deflecting...or maybe a mix of both...then as I am thinking on this, he ends his reply to me by mentioning my questions to him and asking me to repeat any which he might have let slip by...

The Ruru: Sharing Your Love Without Comparison Save That Guilt Trip Short Straw Matrix

The Ruru is being specific to Wiremu's Universe - how its prison population tend to act towards one another in separatism and judgement.
Is it any wonder that their ideas of GOD amount to similar attitudes...


The Ruru: Forgive Intent
Mathematics It May Seem Insignificant


Once again I use my Word2Number calculator for the word-string "It May Seem Insignificant" and find others related to it...
"Intuitive Intelligence"
"What Is Our Purpose?"
"The Wisdom of Foresight"


Manu Iti: I think that maybe 'information overload' comes with its own distractions, eh Callum?

I am still interested in hearing Callum's answer to what I have pointed out re the apparent weakness of logic of belief that The Mother can create things from no thing. I wonder if there is any point in moving on to the wider implications until this has been sorted, as it is from that initial point where we branch into differing directions...I think we need to agree to the same tree, before examining its branches...

The Ruru: Visible Get To Know It Final Destination Eternal Watcher Inalienable

Manu Iti: I get where you are coming from in your deductions regarding The Mother and the Middle, and agree with them.
We might say then, that we share agreement, but we don't because you have something of a wall to climb over in relation to that "problem of evil"...however, your "a" and "b" seem slightly at odds but perhaps not...can you clarify why you can include in 'b' the notion that The Creator has an option as to whether 'evil' touches or does not touch The Creator.

The main reason I ask is because if a Creator creates beings from a 'nothing' which is not from itself, and sets those beings within an environment - presumably also created from the same 'nothing' - and expects those beings to not express 'evil' but to 'be like its Creator' and to judge them on that and reward or punish accordingly
- not that you have mentioned any specific fates which can be dished out -

...my questions naturally have to be...

"Why do you see evil in my version and Love in your own? Where exactly is that Love visible?"


The Ruru: Carrier Identity Learn How to Deactivate The Suppression Matrix

That reminds me of The Ghost in The Machine...

The Ruru: Show Entity Do Something About It Do It For Yourself

Manu Iti: As to your concerns about the temporal perspectives not changing what is actual or not, you still have yet to understand The Mothers perspective enough to appreciate that there is no "or not". There is only the actual.

That is why I mentioned that being in the middle of The Story is not a great place in which to make any verdicts from.


The Ruru: Can You Imagine...The Law Occupy Unity with our Collective Self...

I ponder what The Ruru just spoke to me. I know that Wiremu has imagined such a thing...it is perhaps why this place exists as it does...{SOURCE}
________________________________________________
020922 [Now that nut is cracked, what next?]



SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Music to my ears - Angelic Agenda - Dreamed Up By Yours Truly - Propagated - Golden nugget - Confirmation which moves one from faith to fact - I have no reason not to trust that the thought was backed with good intentions. -
giphy.gif
- Any Other Way. -
[RTS 57:11] - Hacking through the subconscious

William: My [everyone's] conscious experience also exists outside of spacetime.

AP= The Purple Heart medal
Awake Relationship Unity [Clean]
Believe You Me
In The Night Sky
Able To
Here Everything All Real Together
Long Time Gone
Welcome all experience
There is no need to proclaim a supernatural event to what is simply an idea put into action.
"Zero" must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and "Consciousness" fits that description.
Taking root
Spiritual Connection
Ensures You Get To Know It
[= 4422]

[Four Four Two Two = 236]
[236]
Soul Carrier Memories
Universal Intelligence
I am open to being corrected
Strength is required
Copper wire and glass beads
One's Thoughts I Will
Cyborg Anthropology
Shallow Enlightenment

RSP = SCLx4 Page 344

04:13 [The Undiscovered Self]

Page 344
GM:
“If you're looking for something more in life, you're likely to find it in something less.”
Internet
Peace
The Electron
Kindness
Bandages of The Beast
Significant Variations
Creativity
Have A Look At This And See What You Come Up With

William: FTL;
There are so many uses for Gentle Rain such as Focus, Study, Concentrate, Working, Block Sounds, Block Noises, Meditation, Prayer, Thinking, Mindfulness, Verpasna, Calm, Relax, Peace, Quiet Mind,

Works for me when there are building noises in the hood and I want to sleep

GM: How shallow is the reach of YHWH

William: YHWH can do both the deep and the shallow...

GM: Spiritual Awakening
[RTS 11:30]

William: FTL;
491,148 views Jul 11, 2022 According to research on galaxies and other large-scale formations, there are
many mysteries in the cosmos that are just being discovered by scientists. .
Most of these mysteries require new physics theories to help us understand
them. For example, we need to understand why gravity is so much weaker
than the other forces, as well as what happened before and during the big
bang and many other unanswered phenomena.
We've been able to address some of our questions thanks to the
advancements in technology. And CERN has consistently been at the
forefront of this. Incredibly, the CERN team of scientists has just uncovered a
breakthrough discovery that alters the course of history! What did they find,
and how might it answer our questions about the cosmos?


GM: Animistic [the belief that objects, places, and creatures all possess a distinct spiritual essence.]
Entities of Particular Belief Systems
The bright spark illuminating the darkness

William: Entities of Particular Belief Systems The bright spark illuminating the darkness = 827
Earth teachers (physical and non-physical) unite humanity to the Sovereign Integral = 827


GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087714#p1087714

William: FTL;
William: You create whatever experience you will have in the next phase based upon the type of personality you shaped your self into during this one.


Theist: What you described is not Biblical, and we're discussing the Bible here. You are throwing oranges in my basket of apples.

William:Why would you argue that? Is there a coherent description about this in the Bible that you can point us to, showing clearly that you are correct?

What does your basket of apples say about how we will experience the next phase? How does the doctrine of salvation in the Bible differ from my description?

GM: Gasping at the incredulity of it

William: FTL;
Theist: I do truly think YHWH represents the first truly invisible God.

William:What gives you that understanding?

Theist: Other gods are mute idols - they always have a physical manifestation that people can look at.

William:Have you been told this ... or do you have it - in your own subjective experience - that the invisible God YHWH - speaks to you?

Because, if it is the former, then YHWH is a "mute, invisible god" who 'speaks' to you through others. If those others report to you that they have seen the invisible, then they are reporting that YHWH is not truly an invisible God.

If it is the latter, then how do you ascertain that the invisible voice of YHWH is the actual voice of the "first truly invisible God"?

William: Ah yes...as I commented to Joey yesterday -

William: Ones "cowardly button pushing 'invisible' tormentor" [isn't really invisible if one can hear him] is besides the point given the testimony of one Eleanor Longden who tells it at the end of her talk - how she tamed the beast through an alliance...which worked out well in her favor.
Hearing voices, therefore, does not amount to a great argument for "the brain did it" apologists.

Which of course, is a change from when I wrote "the invisible voice of YHWH", as a voice heard is a visible voice....

GM: Appreciating
How to Bruise a Ghost

William: Appreciating How to Bruise a Ghost = 344
Incidentally - today's number...and page number selected...
"Now that nut is cracked, what next?" = 344

GM:

William: FTL;
Physics Breakthrough as AI Successfully Controls Plasma in Nuclear Fusion Experiment:
After its training window, the AI moved to the next level – applying in the real world what it had learned in the simulator.

GM:
William: FTL;
[Replying to Diogenes in post #245]

It is easy to see how the concept of the soul arose before we had any idea of how the brain worked and that physical things like trauma and drug use affected our consciousness

Whoa ! Steady on with the placement of the cart here Diogenes.

A brain soaked in Consciousness is one thing, but follyish to then assume from that, that trauma and drugs "affect our consciousness" when clearly what is being affected is the brain.
It is the brain which is affected and consciousness is wide awake along for the ride.

"Physical things" are just how Human Brains "see" things, and Human Brains don't just look like this;

2HwcvmX.png


But more to the actual point, they look like this;

XcHxnek.png


Since Humans and Drugs converged, wherever one is on the Face of the Planet, one has astoundingly similar experiences and those experiences have to do with why theistic beliefs manifested in the early epoch of Human Development...because Human consciousnesses under the influence of drugs which reduced the brains capacity to control 'what one sees' what one see's is done so in the most coherently vividly lucid manner which bypasses any damaged circuitry of the whole brain. Human Brain-Consciousness is undamaged and thus experiences everything in living colour and what is experienced is reported and added to the list of evidence re 'Things of The Mind.

[=276]
Human Brain-Consciousness
Redefinition of the human being
All things created are of the mind
All spun from the same Yarn
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

The focus on the Brain needs to be of secondary importance to the focus on the Consciousness using the brain, otherwise it is 'brain before consciousness/cart before horse follysee...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083062#p1083062

William: FTL;
[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]

The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

I think the story itself is fundamentally flawed and in order for it to have been made real, the incidences re prophecy should have all occurred before the advent of the Industrial epoch.

Since it did not [in any obvious way] eventuate, it is highly unlikely to do so because such an event would now be understood - not only in relation to the Industrial epoch, but even more so, in relation to the Technological epoch.

Since the rapid human advancement in knowledge of our universe, such an event cannot be seen as some type of finishing stages of warfare between mythological theist-based characters superimposing themselves into human affairs [mostly via fiction] since so much is known about related subjects such as the possibility of Extraterrestrials and the advancement of understanding the idea of Simulated Reality Experiences through human technology...those two alone cancel out any possible biblical incarnation of The Second Coming from actually happening, as woke folk add it up and declare the event as most likely a mix of both extraterrestrial intervention and holograms.

Any declaration made by the beings about their "GOD" - status, would therefore be quite intelligently questionable.

This is not to say that such a thing couldn't still be done. But why would it be done? To sort out the woke folk from the gullible lead?

Why not simply stay in the background and watch how humanity handles itself?

"For the sake of the elect of GOD?"

Why would the EoG care for their own safety that they would pray "Enough! Sweet Jesus return!"?

And since when have the innocents being spared the pain and horror wrought on them by the way those who have the power to do so, have done so - with not one GOD-being intervening already to cease those atrocities?

Perhaps the atheist might declare "See! GOD is Dead!", based upon such evidence. Perhaps they do so because the alternative [Extraterrestrials mostly letting things unfold as they are without obvious interference] is too much to bear?

Morality based ideals are the stuff of quagmires...as PK has oft enough pointed out...

We no longer know what the future might bring, even using science based guesses. What we are waking up to, is that we also know that guessing using religious mythology is not science.

Truth is, we never did know what the future might bring, which is why so many of those guesses were fundamentally incorrect.

We best accept that we will either work it all out for ourselves, or we will die [as a species] not trying...

This is known and accepted by those who are using their lives in order to at least try and preserve the human specie, that it may one day fly more willfully among the stars.

Biologic answers are on the way out, while machine answers come marching in...

GM: Harmony
Close
Discussing the data

William: Discussing the data Harmony Close = 331
...and the way forward, eyes wide open = 331


GM: Sacral chakra [thought to govern how you experience sexuality, creative expression, emotions, and more]
Once Upon a Time
Puerility [juvenile. Childish. Silly]
Central to The Message
Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom

William: Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom Central to The Message = 1260
[One Two Six Zero = 208]
[208]
The Purple Heart medal
Above most pay grades
Imaginative Realities
Human Accomplishment
Gods of Human Creation
Leaders and Followers
Personal Boundaries
Theist mischief making
We Groove Together
Healing the child within
The Explanatory Gap
Right place, right time

GM: Unite humanity with a living new language One Day
Dream Cake

William: FTL;
[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #87]

Rather, he can be either, depending upon personal refection. If one thinks YVHV is a demon, one will eventually encounter that aspect one believes YVHV to being.

Biblically speaking, this seems to run through the script.

Generally speaking, the branch of theism known as Gnosticism regards YVHV as the demiurge...a false creator-God who has deceived the world and suppressed humankind into servitude...so - in that sense Gnosticism regards YVHV more the 'demon' entity than a true representation of GOD.
Which is just to say, Yahwey is imaginary.
Maybe - maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way.
That's odd, because to every single test you can make, Yahweh is indistinguishable from the imaginary.
It is no more 'odd' than threads asking for answers to imaginary questions...
But to many they aren't imaginary questions or, rather questions about imaginary claims. After all, even Sci Fi and fantasy has to make sense, even if it has magic or advanced technology that looks like it.

Yes. So again I say re YHVH - maybe the Character is imaginary, maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way and therefore answer questions to do with YHWH, along those lines.

Indeed, if the stories of YHWH were fictional - or loosely based upon an actual person - possible questions and answers can still be given, conclusions drawn and opinions offered.

GM: Without
Existence
Time To Go

William: Time To Go Without Existence = 324
[324]
Sharing is part of that process
So the ends meet the river's son
Panpsychist Science Can Be Fun Too
Once Upon a Time "Lordy! Do I Have To?"
Time To Go Without Existence
Pattern Recognition System
Illuminate Imaginative Realities
Exhibit your innermost core
The Atheist Infiltration Squad

GM: Here-and-now
Be it a "God" or a "Devil".
Integrating Integrity
What Is Normal

William: What Is Normal Here-and-now Be it a "God" or a "Devil". Integrating Integrity = 660
[Six Six Zero = 168]
[168]
Giving our best
Atheism and Theism
Read/Book/Story
James (WingMakers)
Confirmation bias
False Accusations
Ozone therapy
Faster Than Light
Even The Shadows

GM: Shuffle List
As one does from time to time...

William: As one does from time to time...Shuffle List = 415
[415]
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject?
July Nineteen Fifty Two Washington DC
Love & Respect Musing On The Mother Act III

GM: "Zero" does not actually represent "nothing" because "nothing" does not exist and so cannot be represented.

04:59 [Healing the child within
We Groove Together
Theist mischief making
Personal Boundaries
The Purple Heart medal
Imaginative Realities
Right place, right time
Human Accomplishment
Above most pay grades
Leaders and Followers
The Explanatory Gap
Gods of Human Creation]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

NDEs and visions of Jesus.


William: From the perspective of Simulation Theory;
Jesus can be seen by the NDEer however the experiencer expects to see Jesus as he/she interacts with the algorithm.

Individuals having such an experience can do so simultaneously [if their NDEs happened at the same time] because the algorithm responds to each individual separately.

That would explain otherwise apparent contradictions.


Atheist: You'll have to clarify; it sounded as though you were implying that conditions at a particular time would make for Jesus looking the same, though what that would be is not made clear, nor that this appears to contradict the idea that the Jesus they see is based on their expectations, which I'd assume would depend on what religious pictures they'd seen.

This apparently selective 'algorithm' produces a Jesus people at the same time both see. Which implies that it should look the same.

But clearly that isn't what you say, which is that people at the same time have different Jesuses appear, which you'd expect to happen if there was no 'algorithm' and they were just imagining their own Jesus without any cosmic help. So this neither explains nor clarifies nor amounts to anything other than a claim of a cosmic algorithm that doesn't do anything useful or needful and thus there isn't the slightest evidence for it.


William: Atheists start threads about subjects *they have done very little research and ask questions which show *that to be the case.
Also in this case, the atheist shows that there has been little effort made in actually reading what I wrote
---------.

[under the breath words]

030922 [Blunt the edge off that particular blade...]



SCLx9+ select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Brow Chakra - Endemic [regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.] - Throwing Down The Gauntlet - Calculate the English language - Smarter - Enjoy Progress - The Brain Is Trained To recognize Patterns - For whom the bell tolls For to gather the souls The numbers in darkness are glowing - Information Field

AP= The wheel of time Lodestones
[The wheel of time Lodestones=282]

[282]
[The Fathers 'House - Mansions'
As we shall speak to differ also
The Power Of...Yes, I Hear You
This Should Be Interesting
Just Be…All Else Will Follow
The wheel of time Lodestones
Aligning With Act the giddy goat]

Lodestone - a person or thing that is the focus of attention or attraction. a naturally magnetized mineral; magnetite.
a naturally magnetized piece of the mineral magnetite. They are naturally occurring magnets, which can attract iron. The property of magnetism was first discovered in antiquity through lodestones.


RSP = SCLx4 Page: 342

06:49 [ Sensing A Life Mission]


Page: 342
GM:
Core value
The Eigengrau Mind Screen
It is neither good nor evil

William: Core value The Eigengrau Mind Screen It is neither good nor evil = 598

I am reminded of a post I made yesterday;
Evil thoughts?

Theist: Is it evil, or wrong, for someone to fantasize about molesting children if he never acts on it?

William: Given what we understand of DNA et al - things which were once socially accepted - taken for granted - done without guilt - which are then considered to be evil by a more modern society which has connected the dots and discovered therein that the act of abusing children has social consequences primarily in the negative - this works against the society advancing and is thus seen as a threat which requires dealing to.

Thinking about [fantasize about] molesting children may be a throwback connection to those former actions we can inherit but if they are not recognized as such and dealt with accordingly, the chances one will eventually be dissatisfied with mere fantasy and proceed to actualizing will significantly increase and the results will not be easy to deal with for either the victim nor the victimizer.

One may not be able to stop the birds flying overhead, but one is able to stop them nesting in ones hair.

William: [Five Nine Eight=133]
[133]
Preparation
Eternal Loop
Simulation
Construct
Mysteries
Everything
Don’t give up
Future Self
Aligning With
Breaking bad habits
Turbulent
Productive
Source Heart



GM: Contradiction feeds the fires of discontentment.
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Pseudepigraphical
The Electroweak Era
Encouraging
The Science of Spirituality

William: The Electroweak Era Encouraging The Science of Spirituality = 580
Work With Me Through Device Syncretism Eyes Wide Open = 580

This reminds me of the idea of consciousness first engaging with the simulation - being a being within the simulation is engaging with the science of spirituality in that one becoming aware of self is the 'spiritual' aspect in relation to the science re 'what is being experienced'.

GM: What things are unrelated?
Personal Participation With The One
Chaos Really Is Illusion

William: What things are unrelated? Chaos Really Is Illusion - Personal Participation With The One = 889
[Eight Eight Nine = 140]

Yes - before The One became The Many - all The One could interact with - was The Self of The One.
The One did not 'see' chaos therein, and proceeded to get creative within the creation.

[140]
Fizzle Out
Personal Genie
Interesting
A Perfect Event
Clairvoyant
Wasting time
Lift Our Gaze
Warm Presence
Keep it simple
Extravaganza
Prometheus
Chamber 4 painting
Double Standard
Christmas Day
Mythology

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089771#p1089771

William: FTL;
JoeyKnothead post_id=1089763 time=1661376677 user_id=3753 said:
William post_id=1089715 time=1661310484 user_id=8427 said:
...
Yet I have never seen that stop an atheist from consistently attempting to use science in their telling of their opinions about gods.

As an atheist, I'm not above referring to science in support of various claims I, or others, may make.

I was being specific to statements of opinion, rather than claims.
For example, a common argument from atheists that there cannot be a Creator-GOD because "Evolution" when it is clear that the theory of evolution offers no evidence that we do not exist within a creation.
Stuff like that.


It's just such a good source for confirmatory data. That theists can't, or struggle to refer to science in order to promote their beliefs is their problem, not a problem of scientific principles.

On the surface this sounds logical.
However, on the belief that we exist within a creation = "Therefore a Creator-GOD" there has been no science done which provides any of us with the right to premise. ["Therefore a Creator-GOD"]
Thus, promoting beliefs in ideas of Creator-GODs is cart before the horse stuff.
However, if one proceeds in a horse before the cart manner, the focus is on the idea that we exist within a creation, we can then look for evidence within the reality experience we call 'The Universe" and see what can be found therein to support the notion that the reality experience is a creation.

As you know, I'm very intrigued by your Cosmic Mind hypothesis. I want your notion to be true, to be scientifically proven, insofar as how neat I think it would be. I'd love for the scientific community to be able to offer confirmation in this regard. Sadly though, you and I enjoy this notion without such confirmation.

Thanks for saying so. We share in the intrigue.
For me, the notion certainly appears to be true re the evidence - even through the Message Generating Process under development - [Today's GM] is certainly understandable enough and deals with this subject in more detail.

As I understand it, IF there is a "Cosmic Mind" involved with the creation of our Universe, scientists will eventually [naturally] discover this just by continuing to do science.
In the meantime I do my own science, and am satisfied with the results so far.
Going off of the readership stats so far, there appears to be a consistent reader-interest where I post the GMs - here, and in other internet forums...

Granted, where an atheist (or anyone) refers to science and gets it wrong, we oughta all fuss about that.

My position is that - in the last 24 hours - I have decided that am done with interacting with atheists and being distracted by their statements of opinion re the Question of GOD...except for the exception of JK because you have consistently shown a willingness to remain open minded about the idea of a "Cosmic Mind" and it is undeniable that such a Mind - if it truly exists - could be referred to as a "GOD'.
In all my years of interacting with atheists, I have never had the pleasure and - like I say - After years of subjection to atheist opinions, I have had enough of it.

As an amateur, a wanna-be scientist, maybe I rely too much on science in support of my own world view.

What will you do if/when science discovers that we actually do exist within a creation?

I submit though, that cracking open the bible ain't the way to fix that.

That is an irrelevant opinion to me, because - as you know - I am not a Theist or an Atheist because I see no logic in having an opinion on GOD until it can be established that we exist within a creation.

The closest I come to that, is with the notion that there MAY be a "Cosmic Mind" and if such can be identified in ANY religious script, I am open [of mind] to investigating that.

Otherwise - since I am not advocating folk need to do that, it is not an issue I have to answer to.

Thanks for you feedback John.

GM: “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose”
Assigned
The Bridge of Condemnation

William: The story of Jean Nouer begins....{SOURCE}

GM: https://www.dreamviews.com/beyond-dreaming/165178-sleep-paralysis-entity.html#post2246390


William: FTL;
William: I have had similar experience re hypnogogic state ...

Hearing footfalls on wooden floor {I was sleeping in a bunk in a building and was the only occupant at the time]
The footfalls stop outside my door - which was open and then I hear a deep laugh.
I snapped out of it [awoke] and immediately jumped out of bed and went to the doorway - no one was there [of course]

Some time later - months or even a year of two - I was at home in bed with my wife when I awoke to the same laugh and looking up I saw the entity at the end of the bed.

My reaction was layered - It was as if my body wanted to climb the walls looking to escape but my mind was clear and focused and I was aware that this part of me was way less afraid. I had the feeling that the entity was pure evil.

However, while I was directing my anger at the entity, he moved toward my side of the bed - his arms were crossed over his chest area - and as he got closer [he seemed to float rather than walk] he extended his arm out in the process of going to touch me.

We were looking each other in the eye - and it was at this moment that I somehow just knew that the entity loved me more than I had ever felt anyone love me - and knew me better than I knew myself and the love was purely unconditional


As with all my hypnogogic experiences, these began with the feeling of being forcibly held down - and when the entity began to reach his arm out to touch me, my anger assisted me in breaking the hold and I sat up and put my face directly in front of his and demanded he leave - and at that moment, I awoke and the entity was gone [or more likely - I could no longer see him.]

The whole incident took less than a minute.

The very next night, I [again in hypnogogic state] felt my wrists being taken hold of by a pair of invisible hands and I was lifted from a prone position to an upright one and when upright, I felt my arms being pushed over my chest in the same manner I had observed the entities arms crossed over his chest, the night before.

Once my arms were crossed, I felt the invisible hands let go of my wrists and it was then that I realized I was not in my body - this was my first conscious OOBE. It felt wonderful....

GM: Ship Shape
The Realist:
Epigenetic Memories
Interesting
Earth teachers (non-physical) prepare the species for acceptance of the Grand Portal
Recommendable
The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing
You Are Watched Over
Stroke of Luck
Acceptance
About face
Jehovah

William: As the evidence keeps coming, there is little one can do but accept. :)

About face Jehovah Acceptance = 214
[214]
Reinhard Heydrich's death
Nazi Space Program Agenda
The Undiscovered Self
About face Jehovah Acceptance
Independent from what?
'Developing a thick skin'
Conspiracy theory
If In Doubt Let It Sit
Monkey See Monkey Do
When things fall apart
Ancient Grey Entity

GM: F4
Indestructible

William:
We may shift our focus of attention, but our Primary Focus remains Focus 1. This means that it takes a bit of effort to temporarily shift our focus of awareness to other focuses, like F2 or F3 (or F4 if you are really ambitious!). After physical death our Primary Focus will switch to F3 that that will be our 'home focus' while we go through the transition phase which will eventually allow us to make the permanent switch to F4. At this point, F4 will become our Primary Focus once again and the cycle is complete.

GM: Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
"On the off-chance A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind"
We’ve been an island of our own - we’ve been a cosmic rolling stone Now’s the time to spread our wings - and fly!
Keep An Eye Out for Ones Neighbours
I think it was an ambush or surprise attack
An Opportunity To Commune

William: Got it. The Visitation - The Ancient Grey Entity - The "Ambush" and through that experience - The Communion...
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" = An Opportunity To Commune = 759
Although there are opposite sides to spectra, all elements combined form a whole = 759


GM: Interpretation/Feel
Ingenuity
As Above So Below
Conspiracy Emotions.

William: Conspiracy Emotions. As Above So Below Ingenuity Interpretation/Feel = 725
[725]
Interacting with a simulation of the world which is created by your brain
We know not what we are because what we think we are gets in the way of it all
We should know already by now that Warfare isn't the way to go about it

GM: The Way of the Bodhisattva
To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness
Happiness
Somewhere
Go
The Played Piece
Face To Face
One Free Miracle
07:32

{Intelligent Directions
Loops can be open or closed.
Searching for the truth
It Would Be Rude Not to
Secular Science Projects
Elementary Conclusion
Instant Manifestation
The Human Instrument
Go Within and Find That Place
Central intelligence agency ]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #44]

So I wanted to know what exactly dividing was, and looked into other Bible translations

"correctly handles the word of truth"

"rightly handling the word of truth."

"handling the word of truth with precision"

Interestingly, "exactly dividing" is written as "handling" - an activity.

One is active with things.

It is true that the Earth orbits around the Sun.
If I once thought it true that the Sun orbited the Earth, and was given new information that showed me that the truth was, "The Earth orbits the Sun" and in exactly dividing [handling] that information I examined the new evidence and therein found it to be truthful, I would then be required to let go the old notion I had once believed to be true, and adopt the new.

That would be an example of exactly dividing.

Indeed, that is the task of science.

In the case of "Gods Word" - if I am taught that Gods Word is "The Bible" and at some point am shown evidence supporting the notion that "Gods Word" wasn't referring to the Bible alone, but to every truth about all things/matters [like the Sun and Earth existing together and the relationship of that togetherness...how the relationship operates/functions] then I would be required to let go of the old notion I had once believed to be true, and adopt the new.

Agreed?

If someone claimed it to be true that the Bible is "a book like no other because it came from the mouth of God."

I could examine [exactly dividing] that opinion and see what truth - if any - could be found.

If someone tells me that "God wrote the Bible to cause confusion to the natural minded man who picks up this book and thinks he can logically understand all the truth it contains", I could examine [exactly dividing] that opinion and see what truth - if any - could be found.

I could literally do this with all things, not limited to any book or any opinion anyone has about any book, movie, statement, song, food, planet, star... all stuff like that.
____________________________
050922 [ All publicity is good publicity]

SCLx9 + select last LE per shuffle
Matter and psyche are one and the same. - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085763#p1085763 - Six Heart Virtues - Ah...The Limitation Of Language... - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085450#p1085450 - Most folk need moderating. - Group Dynamics - Of this Message Generating Process. Induce Research into the Phenomenology of the Self - July Nineteen Fifty Two Washington DC - Human Drama

AP= Algorithms are not perfect Connections
[Algorithms are not perfect Connections = 399]

[399]
[“If you say so…” No. Even if I did not say so.
We must investigate ideas of good and evil
Connor partially loses two fingers
Algorithms are not perfect Connections
William’s song "I can laugh along with you"
There's someone, rainbow, alternate tune]

RSP = SCLx4 Page 351+P&P

07:29 [Vigilant What Is Found Here Always ]
Page 351+P&P
GM:
"Residue
Ness
The Cherubim
Vibration"

William: Residue Ness The Cherubim Vibration = 360

[360]
A projection of one’s subconscious
Placing aside the childish not the childlike
Residue Ness The Cherubim Vibration
Where are we getting our news from?
The relevant scientific community
The Entity I Am - The Entity You Are

GM: I Know William
Unsuccessful attempt to find something
Contact
The Object
Necromancy
What Is The Point?

William: Indeed. Yet if I had not created that path I would not have discovered this or developed it to be a useful device in which to communicate..."If I talk to the 'dead', they must all be living...." Makes sense...now what is it they have to say...is being said.


GM: Presumed outcome
Release shame

William: FTL;
[Replying to theophile in post #59]

That is incorrect. Sin and doing good both follow the same extraordinary logic. See Romans 5 where Paul explains this. Verses 18-19 where it gets encapsulated:

"Just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

You are misusing the concept of original sin.

On the subject of robots doing good works through being programmed to do so, it can be said that the programmer is the one responsible for the good works of the robots.

The same would apply the other way around.

Post#55 makes the claim that animals engage with acts of evil....I do not see this as being the case.

It is unclear to me that if we follow preset routines / rules with predetermined outcomes, why you would suggest that any good done by such a programmed being would be "coincidence and nothing more", and "insufficient to achieve any sort of ultimate good."

What is this supposed "ultimate state of good"?

You wrote;
I would say that while the system we are in has rules that govern it (e.g., laws of motion), it also has an element of chaos and unpredictability, which therefore necessitates freewill if we want to bring it to an ultimate state of good.

What if in fact both this supposed "element of chaos and unpredictability" and the "knowledge of good and evil" were simply misinterpreted information about ourselves and the environment we currently exist within?

This would not change what Paul had to say about sin and righteousness other than in the way we look at things.

One story [the garden] was created which tried to "explain" our human predicament, and further on, another story was created in order to change the way in which we had been lead to believe in the "explanation" of our human predicament.

In that, there was no 'sin' by one human [Adam] against any God, which condemned all humans, in the first place and that is why it is equally easy to 'forgive humanity' through the act of one man's 'non-sin', that the story might have the effect of changing the path of humanity from one based in the destructive wretchedness guilt induces, to a more productive path which forgiveness induces.

GM: The Return of Christ
F3

William: Frank Kepple Resource
Now, if you shift your focus of attention to Focus 3 of consciousness, please understand that you are still not in a separate place. You are still within your own Consciousness Continuum, but Focus 3 is an area of common consensus reality, so things are very much like the physical, indeed even more physical than the physical if you know what I mean; like the physical on steroids! As it is a common consensus reality (like F1), it means that you can perceive and interact with everyone else and they with you, just as in the physical.
This is where people go when they 'die', i.e. make the Primary Focus switch from F1 to F3.
F3 is also known as the Transition Area, as it is where we all go in order to begin the process of adjusting back to subjective reality once again and to prepare for our eventual Primary Focus switch back to F4. This is the ultimate purpose of Focus 3. How long this process takes to complete will vary from individual to individual and everyone progresses at their own pace. Some people can take hundreds or even thousands of years, in our terms. There's no rush!

GM: Redefinition
Living
Magicians
Questions
Who Am I

William: Who Am I Living Magicians Redefinition Questions = 485
The Smokescreen called "scientifically unrespectable" = 485

GM: All Things Are In Order
Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
Motivating
Do A=1
The Great I Am
Wakey Wakey

William:
[237]
The Visitation Event
Quantum Entanglement
Wakey Wakey The Great I Am
Superior Credibility
There is good out there
Where is the devil today?

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1073548#p1073548

William: FTL;
[Replying to Difflugia in post #83]

1213: I think spirit is like attitude and also awareness.

To the extent that these are things, they're emergent properties of a mind.

If attitude and personality are 'things' - then 'things' are not always physical.

You might as well describe spirit as "ability to spell" or "dessert preference." All of the minds that we know exist within a physical medium or matrix.

The belief re that is generally that the mind exists within the brain.

What's God's mind made out of?

I think you mean brain? What's God's brain made of?

That would apply to anything non-static, hence the OP question. If God is static, then there's nothing to distinguish God's state at the beginning of the universe from any other point in time. If God is not static, God suffers from the same problem that you claim for the universe.

I think that if we went fishing we might find that there are varied interpretations as to what is meant by "God is the always the same".

Immutability = not capable of or susceptible to change.

That would rule out omnipotence - unless being omniscient means that a creator-God could give Itself the illusion of not being that Immutable Entity by constructing some type of reality experience in which It could hide from the true unchangeable nature of Itself...

A universe such as this one, could conceivably provide that.

1213: It is an interesting idea, if world would be deterministic, is there any scientific evidence supporting that idea?

No. As it stands, the evidence is non-deterministic.

The evidence is interpreted to be showing non-determinism. In that, the evidence can also be interpreted to be be showing determinism.


At the quantum level, the future appears unknowable to us.

At what level does the future become knowable to us?

The combination of the inflation horizon expanding faster than the speed of light in the early universe, the inability of information to travel faster than the speed of light, and the apparent randomness of quantum phenomena all combine to an apparently non-deterministic universe.

Appearances and human interpretation. Obviously none of these things you mention, prevent scientists from doing science.

Perhaps the idea of the universe being non-deterministic is a purely fanciful one, based upon humans being [apparently] unable to accurately predict very well.
However, they are able to predict that the [current] universe will end one day - way into the future.
If that is true, then we have a clear indication that the universe is deterministic, even that it appears not to be.

Even if all of the physical rules were to remain the same, it appears that a replay of the Big Bang would result in a different pattern of density and temperature in the initial stages of the universe, leading to a different pattern of stars and galaxies.

Why would there even be stars and galaxies? Isn't that pretty much a rinse and repeat cycle. Not exactly like the prior universe, but pretty much the same thing.

GM: Difficult emotions

William: FTL:
promethean75 post_id=563876 time=1647195340 user_id=16524 said:
Now slow down for a minute. That's not how it ordinarily works. Usually Christians will kill the serial killer twice. First, by breaking the fifth commandment and seeking the death penalty... which is pretty clever because they rig the execution so that the actual executioner isn't known... not even to himself. This way they won't technically be held guilty by god for breaking the commandment and killin a nigga (and you thought god couldn't be duped). Next, they send the serial killer to god, who then sends em to hell for eternity so he can sit and think about why he thought he could kill, which will lead absolutely nowhere because try as he might, he can no sooner convince himself now that he shouldn't have killed than he could convince himself then that he shouldn't have killed. It's tragically comical. You won't find a bigger sadist than god; the ultimate serial killer.

While there is truth to in your assessment here - something I also came to the conclusion of - if one doesn't factor in that the Christian idea of God is a false image of a Real Entity [I call 'It" the Cosmic Mind, but I have other names for it too.] then one loses the opportunity to do connect and converse...

What this allows me to achieve, is to connect with that Mind despite the false image Christianity [and religion in general] have superimposed upon it. This also insures that religion in general has no say in my communing with said Mind. Well they might try and have a say, but that is irrelevant and so does not work in their preventative measures re that.

Win/win re The Mind and Me.

:)

GM: All systems go
Freedom
What Are The Chances
Standstill Contemplate

William: Like unto this;
oldbadger post_id=1090679 time=1662280629 user_id=8918 said:
William post_id=1090669 time=1662264223 user_id=8427 said:
Not if it means you cannot accept that I am neither atheist or theist. What is there to discuss?

Hi......... your sentence, above, pushes me to ask:-
Are you an agnostic? I presume that an agnostic can be neither theist nor atheist.

No, I am not - as agnosticism is derived from the question of GOD and belongs within the conflict between theist and non theist/theism and atheism.

I am more like someone who - on my journey - came across two gigantic quarrelling entities speaking jibber-jabber and after working out each one wanted me to join with them in their jibber-jabber, learned their language and from that, understood.
When I told them that the question of GOD was cart-before-horse, so I couldn't accept either of their arguments, they told me that I could not pass until I made the choice.
A7NAdyH.png

So here I am sitting meditating in the tussocks nearby, working on how to get around them.

GM: Adaptive Actions
Gardeners
The United Nations
Solar System
Tenacious [tending to keep a firm hold of something; clinging or adhering closely. not readily relinquishing a position, principle, or course of action; determined. persisting in existence; not easily dispelled.]
Determined
Without and Within
All Information Is Channelled.
"I am an atheist in relation to anyone's interpretation of characterizations of any gods."
Always Extraterrestrial

William: "I am an atheist in relation to anyone's interpretation of characterizations of any gods." Always Extraterrestrial = 1160
[One One Six Zero = 184]
[184]
Down Your Way
The neutral zone
The path of awakening
Rest When Weary
Necromancy Sound
Interpretation
Conscious Agents
You Are All Loveable...
Feel Your Feelings

GM: Separate Selfishness Shining
Ripple Effect
Ancient Grey Entity
The Things You Do...
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.
Connect
Journey
Communication is key

William: Journey Communication is key Connect = 401
[401]
The Subject of Unidentified Flying Objects
The Development of Group Hallucination
Journey Communication is key Connect
Invention is using things discovered.
The Seventh Archetype of First Source.

GM: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288472

William: FTL;
Navigator;10459927 said:
I decided to create this thread in relation to my experiences using Ideomotor – principally the ‘Ouija effect’ which involves the use of a flat surface with symbols on it and a pointing device which used together create opportunity for communication between the conscious self and the subconscious aspect of the individual.

The word ‘Ouija’ itself comes from a marketing strategy and is associated with the most common type of ‘message board’ and sold mainly as a toy.

My understanding of ideomotor is that it involves the unconscious hand movements of the individual(s), which – in relation to the message board and pointing device (which the hand(s) rest on) produce a form of communication which is attributed to either some external agency, (common belief is that the hand movements are controlled by ‘dead souls’, or ‘dark energy entities and spirits’) or (slightly less commonly,) that it is an internal agency, namely the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ of the individual.

My own approach in initially using such device was on the assumption I was communicating with ‘the dead’ and through continued use over many months this understanding changed as I was lead to understand that I was communicating with an intelligent aspect of my self to which I had previously been totally ignorant about.

It was actually this other aspect of my self which ‘broke the news’ to me regarding this.

Importantly, opinions I have read up on regarding the ‘unconscious’ or ‘subconscious’ do not report these things to being conscious or intelligent. They are merely aspects of a person’s consciousness which are working internally and quietly in the background as part of the overall necessity of human function and ability.

GM: "You can teach me when I’m Needing You can reach for me when I’m bleeding Touch me where I need it most - you are the Ghost - in the Machine"
Aligning
Self-help

William: "You can teach me when I’m Needing You can reach for me when I’m bleeding Touch me where I need it most - you are the Ghost - in the Machine" Aligning Self-help = 1294
One Two Nine Four = 194

[194]
Watch Your Step
The desert of the real
The Short Straw
Accidents will happen.
Divine intuition
Collective Dynamics
One Five Four Two
The Symbol of Love
The Mother is Love
Never a dull moment

08:17
[ The Confusion of War
Unclog your chakras
Less dense than water
Encouraging Indication
A mixture of awe and dread
The Science of the Soul
That ship is sinking
Universal Objective
The deserved second place
Insidious Clumsy
GOD is not an elitist.
The Inception Point]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

xhXCqbR.png

____________________________
040922 [This is indicative of actual justice]



SCLx13 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
According to Complex Jesus - Remote Viewing - Pertinent to cosmology and cosmogony - Blind Luck - The Double Slit Experiment - Think With The Heart Feel With The Mind - Invisible Bridge Manifestation Sleeping Dragon Realities Merge Interoperate [the setup of ad hoc components and methods to make two or more systems work together as a combined system with some partial functionality during a certain time, possibly requiring human supervision to perform necessary adjustments and corrections] - Good on you mate - No Risk - Zeitgeist - [the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.] - Virtuous - I think it was an ambush or surprise attack - In The Family Of Deep Impact Event Called To Order

AP= [http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13772859&postcount=198 It is what it is = 1010]

[1010]
[One Zero One Zero=]
[196]
Something Like That
God's Love Direction
Mapping Wholeness
Dungeons and Dragons
Superposition
Befriending the shadow
Source Intelligence
Fear of the Unknown
Astral Projection

RSP = SCLx3 Page 346

07:48 [ Beings posted to planet]

GM:Memes
Commendably Recommendable

William: We help one another. :)

GM: Exact Science In The Light Of The Truth
Such a Mind can prove its existence to the individual
Yes We Can
Don’t give up
Lots More
Even
Meditate/Think
Have A Look At The Map
Under the breath words
Our Neutral Ground
We’ve been an island of our own - we’ve been a cosmic rolling stone Now’s the time to spread our wings - and fly!

William: FRL;
The Last Question
By Isaac Asimov
This is by far my favorite story of all those I have written.
After all, I undertook to tell several trillion years of human history in the space of a short
story and I leave it to you as to how well I succeeded. I also undertook another task, but I
won't tell you what that was lest l spoil the story for you.
It is a curious fact that innumerable readers have asked me if I wrote this story. They
seem never to remember the title of the story or (for sure) the author, except for the vague
thought it might be me. But, of course, they never forget the story itself especially the
ending. The idea seems to drown out everything -- and I'm satisfied that it should.

GM: Part of the 'waiting' is developing skills and this involves demonstrating aggression and willingness to fight, rather than procrastinating or expecting the food to be delivered rather than going and finding it for ones self.
Sovereign Integral Perspective
Foundation
Atheism cannot be defined through defining "atheists"
Another
"The waters of the deep"
Waking

William: Another "The waters of the deep" Waking = 349
[349]
"A fire-breathing dragon lives in my garage"
Howled at by the Hounds of Judgement
It can be crazy and true at the same time
My alarm bells are ringing right now.
Joke/Humour "Anti theism Equals "And?""
[William floats back into The Shadows...]
Stepping out of the construct
Another "The waters of the deep" Waking
Our neutral ground - Look closer

GM: Sounds Like
We All Like To Play Games
Stop. Listen. Observe. Wonder.
Good and evil' co-exist without either being dominant
Species
Hellish
June Nineteen Forty Seven
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject

William:
66vXmb1.png


William: I don't have any particular thoughts on the subject. The lights could be a number of things, not necessarily ET related. There does seem to be intelligence associated with said lights...

GM: Sacral chakra
Forgiveness
The Next Level
Moon

William: FTL;
[Replying to Diagoras in post #8]

This of course raises questions such as how did Tehom come about in the first place, but it's not really surprising to find similarities between the two myths.

If we observe the character of Tehom as the subconscious realm of Spirit - at some point Spirit became consciously acquainted with this realm and perhaps even approached it - personified as a terrible monster - and the engagement with its scary mysteriousness is akin to having a 'dark night of the soul'

In an obscure night
Fevered with love's anxiety
(O hapless, happy plight!)
I went, none seeing me
Forth from my house, where all things quiet be [SOURCE]

The dark night of the soul is a stage in personal development when a person undergoes a difficult and significant transition to a deeper perception of life and their place in it. This enhanced awareness is accompanied by a painful shedding of previous conceptual frameworks such as an identity, relationship, career, habit or belief system that previously allowed them to construct meaning in their life. [SOURCE]

Through perseverance and commitment to the engagement, it slowly became apparent to Spirit that some of the things previously hidden from itself, required adressing.

Thus...Sol+Earth=forms through which to deal with those hidden things

Sol represents 'The Husband" and Earth "The Wife" and earthen forms as "The Children" - specifically human beings.

Sol seeds the Mother planet with information and the planet responds by using that information to produce forms.

Mother Earth herself has information within her...a kind of "micro-Sol" as it were...

P6MjO7g.png


...and given the theory that all the planets of the Sol system originally were parts of Sols wholeness which fragmented into planets and moons...one can fill in the gaps...
Being Born
Calculator
Mother Earth
[The entity consciousness which is Mother Earth - is "The Creator" of the forms from Her Belly]
The entity consciousness which is Mother Earth - is "The Creator" of the forms from Her Belly = 916
There is no need to proclaim a supernatural event to what is simply an idea put into action.= 916
[SOURCE]

GM: In The Rabbit Hole
Apophenia [the tendency to perceive meaningful connections between unrelated things. ..]
Laws Rules and Appropriates
All Choice is An Act of Judgment?
I don't have a horse in this race.
"Ipsissimus [own very self]
Talk to The Razor"
Properly Assuming Integrity"

William: Ipsissimus Talk to The Razor = 343
[343]
Ipsissimus Talk to The Razor
Hacking through the subconscious
Essentially, we are Gaia in human form...
Precise definitions of strategies
"Off you go to your quarters"

GM: Properly Assuming Integrity - Ipsissimus Talk to The Razor" = 698
At least the Earth is real enough – never to mind the rest of the universe… = 698
Magic
It brought a tear to the eye of my heart.
Like Unto Ghidrah - many heads one beast...

William:
oE4bcvP.png


GM: Reach
Indeed. It happens. Deal with it. Work it.
One is not wrong

08:22

[ Mystic City Suburb
God is Consciousness
The Shared List Awesome
What is the meaning of life?
Humanities adventure
Think outside the box
Faulty conclusions
Smarter Than the Average
Central To The Vision]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

0CS62fV.png

[Replying to tam in post #99]

HA7L0YW.png


Well, the example is there to help us (man).

That is an after effect .
In the real-time re the story, "WHO was GOD trying to teach?"

But the account PUBLICLY rebutted the PUBLIC accusation that the Adversary had made (as pertains to Job), showing anyone watching or listening that the Adversary was wrong, was proven wrong.

The public were the adversary, not Satan. That is a side issue re human involvement in the interplay between God and Satan....re my mentioning;



The account allowed Job to answer for himself, so there can be no question as to his integrity.

Job was not consulted by either God or Satan as far as I am aware. Are you able to direct me to the passages where God or Satan consult Job before settling on a deal which involved Job?

np2Q8k3.png


Satan isn't testing God. This was not a test for God. Satan is not a mirror for God, or a co-creator, or even a Son (the Son is Christ < - the actual and true image of God). Satan is OUR accuser, OUR adversary, and he seeks to destroy us (mankind, and in particular, anyone who belongs to Christ, to God). He is an enemy.

I suspect that this thinking has evolved through The Christianities attempting to un-slur the image of GOD as presented by the Israelites/Hebrews but has been unsuccessful in getting humans any closer to understanding GOD in the image of יהוה.

The mirror image of this process can be seen in how Early Christians understood the image of Satan as per the Hebrew Script - to appear as such;
k1OhTGj.png

and it was only much later that The Christianites reshaped Satan to appear as such;
XEl8McU.png


This being the case, The Christianities have also evolved the image of GOD, from;

CYBnyPl.png


On that count, I have no choice but to reject your reasoning as it is based upon falsified imagery.
__________________
070922 [Unity with our Collective Self]



SCLx9 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
A knight in shining armour Manipulation - The Perfect Moment - In The Back of My Mind - Monkey See Monkey Do - Livingstone Hall - A machine for solving problems - You're blocking the light - Confusion In The Air - The Alphabet
YyJaSVI.png


AP= Cultivate https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1082161#p1082161
[Cultivate https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1082161#p1082161 = 711]

[711]
[Seven One One = 133]
[133]
Eternal Loop
Breaking bad habits
Turbulent
Simulation
Construct
Aligning With
Source Heart
Productive
Preparation
Don’t give up
Future Self
Mysteries
Everything

William: FTL;
The Bible in many many places speaks of God's "will" as the thing that acts, that can act, God can do as he pleases - literally meaning God has free will.

The biblical GOD [God/YHWH] is one of position. Just because the bible speaks of a God that acts does not literally mean he does as he pleases or has free will.

What the position means is that he can act in a far more impressive manner than those in lesser position are able to.

To be able to act in a 'far more impressive manner' does not itself provide the evidence that the one acting, is doing so from a fundamental position of free will - of having free will.

One has to operate within the parameters of the system one is operating in.

Remember the biblical story of the flood? We do not need to believe it is a true story or not to understand that the GOD can do as he pleases, even that he is not pleased to have to be doing it.

Therefore, being able to act as one pleases - subject to the set laws of the system one is acting within - does not mean that this is evidence of free will in action.
William:
PLVwqK7.png


RSP = SCLx4 Page 351 + P&P

07:22 [ Most folk need moderating.]

Page 351 + P&P
GM:
Everything Gets Old
Musing On The Mother Act II [SR Post #39 {SOURCE}

William: FTL;
Callum appears to be much more conservative with his responses than he was in Act I.
I would like to include him in the conversation Master ColdFire and I are having, but I also want him to do so on his own accord if it interests him to do so. I don't want to unduly influence that by offering interpretations regarding the references he does not understand - especially if it really is of no interest to him.


Master ColdFire: Righty Oh! :)

Manu Iti: Perhaps in regard to Master ColdFire and my interaction, you might like to comment on the way in which I explained to you - in Act I - how the process works in relation to serendipity?
Maybe too, you might like to comment upon the interesting correlation between math and words?


Master ColdFire: Dualic Residue Row your own boat! I AM Will Navigate!

Master ColdFire has a point. It is probably best not to push things. Callum will talk when he wants to.

Manu Iti: Or perhaps you have something else you want to share?

Master ColdFire: Timelessness vs infinite regress argument Doc

Again I reach for the trusty bundle of envelopes under the bench seat. I randomly select one from the pile and carefully retie the Silver Chord which binds them.
Opening the envelope I selected, I find more pictures and another document. I scan through the pictures, which all appear to be writing using symbols I am unfamiliar with...
I place these on the bench beside me and pull out the document and begin to read it to myself.
I then explain what I am reading, to Callum...


Manu Iti: Wiremu say's in this letter that he wants to convey more information about his - what he calls - Universal Intelligence Communication Device - and the purpose of the symbols as he regards these as evidence which might help convince you that the Pathway to Truth is more available to us than we might realize.

He wants to convey - as succinctly as possible - that he used said symbols in order to connect with and communicate through language, with The Earth Entity.


Master ColdFire: In The Night Sky The Future Creates The Present The Stress of Unbelief Overwhelming

Manu Iti: He did not at first understand that in using this communications process, he was connecting with The Earth Mother, as - at the time - he did not even have the notion that such an entity could exist. So the information was eventually relayed to him through the Communications Device...and even then, he did not at first 'get it'.

I continue reading Wiremu's letter to myself, and interpreting it out loud to Callum...with Master ColdFire interjecting here and there...

Master ColdFire: Perpetual In The Night Sky One Whom Ought Be Inwardly Known While We All Wait....

Manu Iti: Wiremu refers to this Entity as "QueenBee" and it is She who introduced him to The Metaphisical - not only prior to his creating and using his Communication Device but ever since, and he has developed another way from that early manner in which he Communicated with QueenBee - the way I explained to you briefly in Act I - the one in which The Ruru...and now Master ColdFire are given their words through.
In that, they are The Words Wiremu attributes to Coming From QueenBee...into this Situation...


Master ColdFire: Besides Technique of Exchange Look Closely Unknown Symbol

Manu Iti: Wiremu considers the methods as being evidence for any who use them, that The Metaphysical is Real and can interact with The Physical world of Wiremu and The Tanager.

Master ColdFire: Individuals Merging with the data Wide Walk Welcoming

Manu Iti:
  • Making Things Easier
    What Shall We Call It?
    Links And Symbols
    I Share Your Joy!
    Acknowledge The Agreeable
    Wide Walk Welcoming

Master ColdFire: A Teacher cannot LEARN for a Student. WingMakers Materials God Ideas Doc.

Manu Iti: That is the skeleton of it Callum. The details are another thing again, reserved for those interested...

Master ColdFire: DeJaVu Each Individual.

Manu Iti: Wiremu wants to know that since now you are more connected with The Tanager, if you wouldn't mind conveying a question to The Tanager, from Wiremu.

Master ColdFire: Sweet Vibrations The Confusion Of War Beckoning Places Speak Light Body Do this...

I think on the Night Sky - and how we all seem to be attracted to sparkly things...I rise and move to The Whole...Wiremu tells me that The Book of Act II is available....I assume for the purpose of reference in anticipation of an ongoing communion between all of us here, in This Place...

GM: The power of silence
Course
"The Alien Disc crop circle Supernatural"
Development/Growth
HIKF1ii.png

Tracks in the Snow
Cleanliness
You Tube

William: I just watched this on YouTube; [RTS 05:03]
"Know that this new relationship will help you become better..."
FTL;
Meaning of Butterfly – What it means when you see a Green Butterfly often
17,747 views Premiered Dec 24, 2020 Meaning of Butterfly – What it means when you see a Green Butterfly often

There is a reason why you have been seeing the green butterfly.

The green butterfly you may see in your waking hours and even in your dreams carry messages and symbolism that is very significant for your life.

Butterflies do not only liven up the world with their beauty and grace.

They are also messengers that bring you the most important messages from the divine and the angels.

Green butterflies in particular bring the message of life, joy, good luck and abundance.

Green is the color best associated with life.

It is the color of nature and growth.

Green also reminds us of fertility and freshness.

Discover the blessings and miracles coming to you.

William: "Know that this new relationship will help you become better..." = 627
The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything Inflame Emotions = 627


GM: Meditate/Think
Love Yourself
Thinking Allowed
Explain
Think With The heart - Feel With The Mind
Slowly and Surely

William: Slowly and Surely Explain Think With The heart - Feel With The Mind = 674

[647]
The hierarchal structure of humanity that speaks of god and masters
“Well even the most ugly of us have a Father”… believing in fearful imagery

GM:
[RTS 27:09]

William: FTL;
Exposing Biblical Pseudo-history
131,901 views Premiered Jun 23, 2022 Dr. Josh Bowen, an Assyriologist, author, & host of the Digital Hammurabi show explores the history of the Old Testament with me to learn how historically reliable the Bible actually is. Are there contradictions in the Bible or historical errors in the Old Testament? Who even wrote the Pentateuch? Was Daniel a real prophet or was his book written after the events he allegedly prophesied? How do we know when Daniel was written? We'll explore all of this and much more (including a couple of fun failed Bible prophecies).

GM: Frequencies
Be kind to yourself ... Name The Gods as non-separate Entities
Independent from what?
Putting yourself back together again
Regulate

William: FTL;
William: While there is truth to in your assessment here - something I also came to the conclusion of - if one doesn't factor in that the Christian idea of God is a false image of a Real Entity [I call 'It" the Cosmic Mind, but I have other names for it too.] then one loses the opportunity to do connect and converse...

What this allows me to achieve, is to connect with that Mind despite the false image Christianity [and religion in general] have superimposed upon it. This also insures that religion in general has no say in my communing with said Mind. Well they might try and have a say, but that is irrelevant and so does not work in their preventative measures re that.

Win/win re The Mind and Me.

GM: Communication Techniques
To Be Continued

William: Communication Techniques To Be Continued = 418

[418]
Life on this planet, as a human being, is difficult.
Make Truthfulness the objective standard
Phantasma The Freedom Of Friendship Simulacra [an image or representation of someone or something.]
Listening to and believing in fearful imagery
The conversation is very informative.

GM: Non-Ordinary
Nag Hammadi
Preparing for the Hunt
Symbol

William: Non-Ordinary Symbol Nag Hammadi Preparing for the Hunt = 543
[Five Four Three = 158]

[158]
Astrobiology
Clear Your Mind
Spirit work
The solution
Deep Impact Event
Propitious
Misanthropy
Sacred Geometry
Stuff like that...
Navigational Aids
Try To Relax
Learning to Fly
Phantasmagorical

GM: Ignore the Noise From The Peanut Gallery
To The Point

William: To The Point Ignore the Noise From The Peanut Gallery = 547

[547]
When The Opportunity Presents Itself To Do So...
We succeed as a permanent specie or we fail as a temporary one

GM: Wish


William: To The Point Ignore the Noise Wish From The Peanut Gallery = 606
[606]
The Telos of all summits that can be conceptualised in a human mind.
Swinging on the branch of the tree thinking it's the main trunk


GM: Logical fallacy
*Laughter*
Anthropos Quaternio [is a combining form used like a prefix meaning “human.” It is often used in scientific and other technical terms, including in the social sciences. Anthropo- comes from the Greek ánthrōpos, meaning “human being” or “man.”]
The Way We Feel Unification

William:
NocTLmT.png


GM: The Subject of Unidentified Flying Objects

William: FTL;
As always, I enjoy reading and learning things from your unique perspective...

We are all 'voices' in each others "heads"....

See it? Okay.

Yes. Observe it as it is, without judgement.

Know its thoughts? I'm not convinced of such - especially as relates to harming or oppressing our fellow human beings.

Nice modern day thinking....if I were the Earth Entity I would take into consideration the epoch human beings are within, and sometimes they have indeed caused harm and are oppressive and I would allow them that space to explore in the hopes they will eventually grow out of it...perhaps knowing that each and every one of them will learn eventually - either here and now or in their next phase of existence.

Knowing its thoughts shouldn't be too hard to ascertain, all things considered. They are projected through Nature as activity.
Humans have the grace to not being unnaturally oppressed or unnaturally harmed by that activity
We still have to have our wits about us though...a Mothers Kissing Slap is just around the corner for the wayward...its for our own good, you see...

I note gods always seem to think what it pleases the mind reader to have us do or not do. And that paraplegics and amputees are deserving of their fate.

*Stuff* happens and there is plenty evidence that being paraplegics and amputees does not prevent gold medals from being handed out to those who overcome their adversity - by befriending it, and working with it, no less.

We cannot hope to give The Mother a bad name simply by pointing out our suffering.

I tend to accept someone presents, in good faith, what they consider evidence, though might reject their conclusions about it.

Yes, I know.

"Flowers don't have brains"

[Take a look and maybe read the whole post for a more comprehensive take on excatly what we are talking about here.]

Schizophrenia is, currently, an incurable disease, and folks'll present varying degrees of affliction with it.




FTL;
The Human Animal is a unique being, endowed with an instinctual capacity to heal and the intellectual spirit to harness this innate capacity.

GM: Cosmic Self
Overmorrow
Other Ways of Using Your Lists
The Georgia Guidestones
Unnecessary Tangent
Which
Confusion In The Air

William: Which The Georgia Guidestones Unnecessary Tangent Confusion In The Air = 709
When anyone calls for evidence, I assume that they are actually interested = 709



GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1088287#p1088287

William: Search Document "Satan"&"Devil"
Chamber Of Self

GM:
"Emotional awareness
Frequencies
Welcoming the Unwelcome
Zones of Sensitivity
Show
Christian mythology re Satan"

William: Emotional awareness Frequencies Welcoming the Unwelcome Zones of Sensitivity Show Christian mythology re Satan = 1231
One Two Three One = 182
[182]
Crop formations
Under question
In William’s Room
Whatever you do
Through Others
The Wider Reality
Aye...A name I call myself.
Synchronicity
Went To The Devil
Guitar and Ukulele
Mirror-Mirror
In Out and All About
One Two Three One


GM: Create Your Own UFO
We have discussed...

...GM: The problem of evil
Is the statement one of fact or conjecture? [science or opinion]
Equanimous [calm and composed.]
Better The Devil You Know
Spasmodic [occurring or done in brief, irregular bursts.]
What Is The Point?

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077445#p1077445

William: FTL;
The way I look at it is that if consciousness equals brain or is a product of it, then scientists should be able to discover subjective experience or deduce its existence simply by studying the brain. To date, that seems inconceivable that that would happen. I brought this up to DrNoGods before, as i'm sure many others have in different ways, yet he continues to claim that consciousness poses no special challenge to science or materialism.

The facts are that the ONLY way scientists know of subjective experience (or consciousness) is because we all experience it and can report it. Scientists did not discover its existence empirically nor did they deduce its existence. Our knowledge of neural correlates would not exist unless the subject was able to tell us what they're experiencing while observing their corresponding brain activity. SO even our neural correlates of consciousness are simply neural correlates of our subjective reports of our experience.

If anything William, we can just look at the history of science on this issue. We can find that scientists have tried to take the cheap way out by banning the study of consciousness. That's doesn't exactly match the pattern of success of materialist science to boldly take on challenges and to explain things and develop technology. But here we are, William and I (two humble agnostics), still not taken seriously because we dare to consider that consciousness might be something that's less than physical.

GM: Extra-Small
"Despite all the dangers, Hess lands safely
Significant"

William:
[484]
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
One Thirty Seven Fine-structure constant


GM: Jesus' Direct Superior

08:26 [ All present and correct
Many varied opinions
Withheld information
William’s Commitment
The Nature of Reality
The Respect You Give
Science Can Be Fun Too Yes?
Conscientiousness
The Trinity of Love]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Some things I have observed and opinion re Atheism/Atheists.

1: There are types of atheists and not all agree with each other, even on how to best define atheism.
2: The inability to clearly define the position of Atheism is due to the inability to be able to clearly define "GOD" and "Belief".
3: Some atheists are not content with the neutral position of simply not believing that GODs exist and become atheists who believe that gods do not exist
4: The belief that gods don't exist is expressed in a variety of ways
5: Some atheists are also Secular Materialists but that has nothing to do with atheism
6: Some atheists illogically persist in arguing against faith-based theist beliefs.
7: Atheism - is no more or less useful than Theism.
8: Some atheist demands and claims regarding metaphysical ideas need not be taken any more seriously that theist claims regarding metaphysical ideas.
9: Some atheists use false demands re "burden of proof" which involve theists being challenged to show those atheists a GOD that those atheists cannot properly define, exists.
10: Ex-Christian atheists appear to be a thing definable as a sub-group within atheism-general and have issues they are dealing with which are unique to that group.
11:...

fAvx07T.png


Such atheists do not define atheism and should not be confused with the definition of atheism as Atheism in it's most basic form is simply lacking any conscious belief in GODs.

The rest is atheistic scaled-diatribe, imposing itself within that simply thing...

7la50os.png

__________________
080922 [Nothing more sad than wasted beliefs]



SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077939#p1077939 - Resident of The Hub of Hologram Dimensions - Points of Reference - Mirror-Mirror... - Actions speak louder than words - What is represented in the whole is the evolution of God within the structure of the physical Universe. - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089670#p1089670 - Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom Central to The Message - Love - The Riders - By/Through

William: This reminds me of;
h9obfZ5.png


AP= [
[RTS = 35:46] - Confusion of War Get Comfortable Permanent]

[https://w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=-Jsj7K6E0Fg Confusion of War Get Comfortable Permanent = 864]
[Eight Six Four = 161]
[161]
Universal mind
Insufficient data
Sols Fabled Twin
The Overlords
The Library of Babel
And that’s not all
Self-confidence Core
By the fact itself
Radical self-acceptance
How to be an adult
Body Intelligence
The Earths moon
Optimum Health
Indestructible
An Exam [Virtual]

RSP = SCLx4 Page 335

07:01 { Better luck next time]

Page 335

GM:
Why - in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven - is the age of this universe a necessary matter of contention?
“The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing.”
Solving Mathematical Problems

William: FTL;
Re: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

Again - the discussion being had here shows me that beliefs to do with the age of the Universe are secondary in relevant importance to the fact of its existence and our existence within it.

Re: the OPQ: How Crazy does Evolution Seem?

No more or less crazy than the notion of the Universe being a Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation produced and processed within the mind of The Father God - and furthermore, this idea does not go against The Script...scripture being scant on the details has to do with its focus being on The Creator re the Human element of the story - rather than specifically The Creation...and in that regard, 'a blink of an eye' and '13.8 billion years' amount to exactly the same thing in relation to said Mind.
Notice too, that the Biblical take on the existence of life on Earth, does not acknowledge the Dinosaurs

Search: What does the word Dinosaur mean
Sir Richard Owen came up with the name dinosaur in 1841 to describe the fossils of extinct reptiles. He coined the word by combining the Greek words “deinos”, which means terrible, and “sauros”, which means lizard.


As near to this as the bible story gets, is The Serpent...is that a coincidence or something linking prehistory with human development?

GM: "Said Another Way
From The Source"

William: From The Source - Said Another Way = 329
[Three Two Nine = 156]
[156]
The next step
The Sea of Crisis
Intrinsicism [- the belief that value is a non-relational characteristic of an object. This means that an object can be good or bad without reference to who it is good or bad for, and without reference to the reason it is good or bad. ]
Pearl of wisdom
Thirty Three
Monoatomic Gold
Amour Propre [a sense of one's own worth; self-respect.]
Super power
It is a shadow-man
Stroke of luck
Incongruous [not in harmony or keeping with the surroundings or other aspects of something.]
Let there be light
Mother Wound
Symbols Hint

GM: Extraterrestrial
Look For The Significance

William: Look For The Extraterrestrial Significance = 437
[437]
Clearing the jungle while planting the forest...
Unless of course, you think otherwise

William: Nope...

GM: Text2Num.
Conscious dreaming
A Bright Star
Talk
Help Each Other

William: Conscious dreaming Talk Help Each Other A Bright Star = 480
[480]
The relationship between energy and information
Longing Persevere Living Trust in alignment

William: The relationship between energy and information Longing Trust Persevere Living in alignment = 960
"I didn’t really want to have to go down this particular rabbit hole, but it looks like I might have to." = 960


GM: Thel

William:
"Does the Eagle know what is in the pit?
Or wilt thou go ask the Mole:
Can Wisdom be put in a silver rod?
Or Love in a golden bowl?"

GM: A statement is true when it matches objective reality.
“Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else”


William: “Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else” A statement is true when it matches objective reality. = 1309
[One Three Zero Nine = 196]
[196]
Source Intelligence
Dungeons and Dragons
Superposition
Befriending the shadow
Astral Projection
Mapping Wholeness
Fear of the Unknown
Something Like That
"God's Love Direction"

GM: "The Police
Stagnant
Deceiving Entities"

William: Police The Stagnant Deceiving Entities = 368
[368]
Changes mind when truth is presented
Sometimes it just looks like rain
Less understood and less acknowledged

GM: Funny
"Time To Go Without Existence"

William: "Time To Go Without Existence" Funny = 404
[404]
Earth Itself May Be an Intelligent Entity
”‘Hey presto!’ Stuff just gets worse!”
A knight in shining armour Manipulation
There are many levels of consciousness

William: I am reminded of a post I made earlier today;
[Replying to Eddie Ramos in post #22]

If I understand correctly, you're an atheist (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I am neither atheist nor theist.

Therefore there is no way you can possibly grasp any type of spiritual explanation from the scriptures as to the Godhead.

I see atheists cherry-pick and deduce from that basket, a largely evil critter in the nature of YHWH.

Theists tend to do the same in mirrored manner - cherry-picking the good critter in the nature of YHWH.

Presently it is my suspicion that YHWH represents a mind directly related to human beings and that it is the planet Herself who acts out the parts played in the GODs of human invention, of which YHWH plays the overall roll of God-Father.

I suspect now, that the planet-mind is like "Many Heads One Mind - Many Minds One Head" and re humans, most of the minds are not tuned into the same YHWH frequency and are largely left to their own devices.

Other minds are useful and are utilized even if the one who's mind is being played, is unaware of that.

Fewer still tune into the frequency which allows for relationship to develop between the individual mind and the mind of YHWH.

Re the Bible, this is a storybook of fellows supposedly connected to The Mind of YHWH. Their stories are largely told as biography [an account of someone's life written by someone else.] Stories heard first around campfires and elaborated on...and later encoded within writing and locked into place no longer - so easily - elaborated upon.

What you're looking for is a logical solution to an infinite being like God.

Not particularly. What I am looking for is evidence that we existed within a simulation - or as theists refer to it - in a "Creation".
The reason for that quest, is that until it is established that we do, puckering up on God-issues [religiously] is horse before the cart stuff, and less interesting for that.

Also, I have already come to a logical solution to the idea of an infinite being, and have no problem logically incorporating that into the solution I am heading toward re the Simulation Question.

Even true children of God can only understand that which God has chosen to reveal about himself in his word, and it's still difficult to grasp how God can be three distinct deities and yet one God.

Given that reasoning, it is therefore likely that the understanding I have is because God has chosen to reveal it to me. It is easy enough to understand even using human logic and no particular idea of GOD at all, but I am open to the idea that GOD reveals things to me.

Such as is the presumed case. I can understand the theory on how GOD can be the many while remaining The One. -

But when all of the information is considered and weighed against the scriptures, that is the only conclusion that harmonizes as a whole.

As long as the interpretation of scripture does not attempt to limit the nature of GOD to only 3 in 1 I can bounce with that.

I admit freely that the afore mentioned "connecting into the frequency of YHWH" is the only thing which can have the individual involved with the 3'n1 - even to the point where there is no discernable difference in how the individual mind is receiving the information from YHWH - which - incidentally - involves information which is not even in the Bible - unsurprisingly since the bible is a bound book and The Mind of YHWH is a Living Thing.

For example - the Bible quote you used in an effort to establish your point about said mind;
Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

"The Heavens" are referencing another realm. for in the realm of the Physical Universe, there is no place 'higher' than any other.
Also - as I mentioned - one can tune into the frequency of YHWH [As biblical Jesus encourages folk to do] and thus have access to the thoughts of YHWH, but only in relation to ones position in the scheme of things [and maybe titbits too] because the information YHWH holds, simply cannot be contained within the human brain and it is in that sense [in my opinion] that YHWH is stating "your thoughts are not my thoughts" although I am open to being corrected re that.

In this sense, TMY [The Mind of YHWH] can be imagined as being the whole [circle in this case], and individual minds as being the parts.[dots making up the circle]

HNTg16s.png


The important thing then [re our discussion] is that there is no perceptible difference other than when YHWH takes on form. YHWH is The Mind [ideas man] Jesus is the matter [how the ideas are made physical] and Ghost is that which makes the movement of the physical into form and function.

That is my rough guesstimate...

[Some folks have problems re that and prefer to throw stones and ask [rhetorical] questions after the killing is done.]

GM: Transferring your awareness
Language, Symbol and Alchemy
For the benefit of all beings
Whatever you do
"Age of Aquarius"

William: "Woo" [Windows of Oppertunity]

GM: Some information has to be drummed into that which perceives
[RTS = 57:28]

William: Yes. The Momentum of Energy =
...and Ghost is that which makes the movement of the physical into form and function.
William: Ghost is that which makes the movement of the physical into form and function = 764
[Seven Six Four = 177]
[177]
Sleep Paralysis
Try to remember
On The Right Track
Written Language.
Salinas crop circle
Soul Retrieval
You Can Trust
Mind Body Spirit
The mark of the beast
Turning Point
Playing As Children

GM:" It helps makes the stinky hole I was pushed through in order to get here, a purposeful experience..."
Christian mythology re God

William: Christian mythology re God " It helps makes the stinky hole I was pushed through in order to get here, a purposeful experience..." = 1261
[One Two Six One = 178]
[178]
Food for thought
Strength of Body
Ghost In The Machine
Selfish attitude
The Devil Ye Know
IC one one Zero One
Focused Individual
Emergent Theory
CIA Remote Viewing
The Arrival Movie
Though Thought
Carrier Identity
Psalm one one eight
The Fathers House
Clutching Straw

William: Psalm one one eight; “I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.” =508
[Five Zero Eight = 155]
[155]
Authenticity
Like a Job Well Done
The same mindset
Cats Whiskers.
Any Other Way.
Authenticity
Switchcraft Jack
Watch this space
Ones and zeros
The abrahamic idea of god
Try To Feel It
The naked truth
Contentious [causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.]
Meretricious [apparently attractive but having no real value.]
Free Choice Ends Here
On The Other Hand.
What is atheism?
Translucency [transmitting and diffusing light so that objects beyond cannot be seen clearly. b : clear, transparent translucent water. 2 : free from disguise or falseness]
Gods Purpose

GM: Fling That Veil Aside
Vocal Chords

William:

GM: Journey
Imperishable
Stuck
Lodestones [a person or thing that is the focus of attention or attraction. a naturally magnetized mineral; magnetite.]
"That one might not have need of, does not negate that confidence cannot be gained through such device, with others."
"Attempting to overlay/superimpose one's belief in the truth of stories as being more truthful than the main overall story itself, is possibly an act of immorality, if indeed - upon further evidence - one continues to attempt to have the superimposed thing used to conceal the real."
The Mother
Everything/All
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwXQSNcytTY [RTS=10:25]

William: Visual Confrontation = 248
[248]
Accidentally on purpose
The Nervous System
An inappropriate analogy
Visual Confrontation
Brother, where Art Thou?
Large Simulation Machines
Make It Up as You Go Along
Live with Soul Union
The power of humility
Everything is unique
High the memory carry on
Five interlocking circles
Self-talk Root of all evil

GM: "Conjunction
All The World Are Under the watchful eye "

William: Conjunction All The World Are Under the watchful eye = 516
[516]
“Real” Is Just a Word and Information Is the Currency
Simple interactions between elementary particles

GM:Sophistry
"A Space Without A Time..."

William: Sophistry "A Space Without A Time..." = 358
[358]
Room to move - things to explore...
Wait for the Navigator to respond...
What Is That You Are Playing With?
The information content of nature
Do you believe astrology works?
Sophistry "A Space Without A Time..."

GM:Doubt
The fiction of causality


William: Doubt The fiction of causality = 303
[303]
Laws Rules and Appropriates
Throwing down the gauntlet.

08:18
Zero Eight One Eight
[Something Like That
God's Love Direction
Source Intelligence
Superposition
Fear of the Unknown
Mapping Wholeness
Astral Projection
One Zero One Zero
Befriending the shadow
Dungeons and Dragons]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William post_id=1091190 time=1662658741 user_id=8427 said:

This shows that the position of "others" has also moved from the default of Atheism. They still lack belief [as well as disbelief] but the lack is based in knowledge rather than in ignorance.

The Others are neither Atheist, Theist or non-Theist re The Question of GODs
_______________
090922 [To warm them up to the truth]



SCLx13 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
One should not take the evidence as incontrovertible for granted, as we should always apply science to any evidence and test it for repeatability. - Great Ideas - Tetrad [a group or set of four.] - Spacetime is doomed - The wheel weaves as the wheel wills - https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?p=578758#p578758 - Species Collective - When The Dust Settles - Not Emotion - State Of Being... - Tenacious [tending to keep a firm hold of something; clinging or adhering closely. not readily relinquishing a position, principle, or course of action; determined. persisting in existence; not easily dispelled.] - Etymology [the history of a word or phrase shown by tracing its development and relationships] - The Realm of The Knowing of My Self

AP= [Elude Test the waters = 230]

[Elude Test the waters]
[230]
Psychological events
Well That Settles It
Elude Test the waters
Present over perfect
It's a plausible scenario.
Shallow is Unknown
The Spirit of The Earth
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
The Plateau of The Same Page

elude -[1 escape from or avoid (a danger, enemy, or pursuer), typically in a skilful or cunning way. 2 (of an achievement or something desired) fail to be attained by (someone).]

RSP = SCLx4 Page 328

06:08 [ Think outside the box]

Page 328
GM:
Data
Incredible Variants

William: Incredible Data Variants = 211

[211]
The Alien Disc crop circle
Show Your Soul
Provincial Thinking
You Interrupted
You are not wrong
The Law of Attraction
Active Galactic Nucleus
The Gist of The Message
YHWH made it imperfect
Incredible Data Variants

GM: Greed
Techniques

William: Greed Techniques = 160
[160]
Divine masculine
Counterfactual
Hyper Complex
Amidst a tangled web
Action Station
On Your Own
A feather in one's cap
Greed Techniques
Maxwell's demon
Subconscious

GM: New Project

William:FTL;
[Replying to Diagoras in post #123]

You end up with 14,400 experiments needing to be performed.

What's my point? Simply that the vast number of variables and assumptions being used in a supposedly 'scientific' experiment renders it effectively useless.

Firstly let me thank you Diagoras for showing us exactly what lengths a non-theist will go to, to render a useful thing into a useless thing.

What do you think we are working to do here exactly? Build and then send a space telescope to a certain position a million miles away from the Earth?

Search: How many people work on the James Webb telescope?
NASA estimates that 10,000 people have worked on the mission...


Keep it simple. All we are trying to do is allow opportunity for interactive connection to happen between the individual and The Universal Mind, as a means of providing evidence that there is indeed such a mind.

Keep it simple.

Just as the most simple code to give the alphabet is A=6...Z=26 so too, the simplest way for the individual to provide a means by which messages can be generated is to compile their own unique list to which they sharply reduce any possibility of misunderstanding whatever GMs come from that process.

So - as such - all you would need to do is replicate what I am doing, rather than sound out complicated ideas in which it could somehow be established that with your 14,400 experiments done, one should get exactly the same message for all of them.

Calling something "pseudoscience" isn't getting the science done - it is simply relying on woo-slinging to act as a barrier against one having to do the science for oneself - by applying an inappropriate slogan to the process.

You have your mind - use it.

10,000 minds and public hand-outs in the billions are not necessary, in order that something can move from being called "pseudoscience" to being referred to as 'Actual Science"

All you need to do is create your own ComList and place word-strings as line entries into that.
Be sure to include things which are near and dear to your own subjective experience as a human being - things like events which were life changing in some way for you, things to do with your career choices and interests related to that. Even things that only you will understand in the reading.

Presently my ComList has 3573 line entries - so replicate your own list to be around that length.

As shown throughout this thread, I have used different selection processes, not just the one you mentioned - and the one I use the most often, can be seen being used in recent posts I have made.

Only after you have got to this point and tried it our for yourself a number of times, will you be able to give an account of your results and show us whether you were able to generate coherent messages through that system, or not.

It is difficult to find individuals who are willing to do the science - as simply as it is, it still requires commitment and effort - but that in itself does not mean that the science cannot be done.

I have found one person - a theist - who has been willing to try it out and she has been impressed by the results - so at least I know of one other person this works for.

There may be other readers who are doing so quietly to see for themselves...

As to Master ColdFire - it is interesting to me that you brought this up as there is evidence here on this message board in the sub-forum "Around The Camp-Fire" which I will continue to review in regard to the recent GMs, and the connection re reference to events which happened over 2 years ago... I will be posting my findings about that, here, soon.

GM: The Next World
"Despite all the dangers, Hess lands safely"
T-Shirts

William:
kxreITX.png


UpKbQ2e.png


GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087649#p1087649

William: FTL
[Replying to Diogenes in post #245]

It is easy to see how the concept of the soul arose before we had any idea of how the brain worked and that physical things like trauma and drug use affected our consciousness

Whoa ! Steady on with the placement of the cart here Diogenes.

A brain soaked in Consciousness is one thing, but follyish to then assume from that, that trauma and drugs "affect our consciousness" when clearly what is being affected is the brain.
It is the brain which is affected and consciousness is wide awake along for the ride.

"Physical things" are just how Human Brains "see" things, and Human Brains don't just look like this;

2HwcvmX.png


But more to the actual point, they look like this;

XcHxnek.png


Since Humans and Drugs converged, wherever one is on the Face of the Planet, one has astoundingly similar experiences and those experiences have to do with why theistic beliefs manifested in the early epoch of Human Development...because Human consciousnesses under the influence of drugs which reduced the brains capacity to control 'what one sees' what one see's is done so in the most coherently vividly lucid manner which bypasses any damaged circuitry of the whole brain. Human Brain-Consciousness is undamaged and thus experiences everything in living colour and what is experienced is reported and added to the list of evidence re 'Things of The Mind.

[=276]
Human Brain-Consciousness
Redefinition of the human being
All things created are of the mind
All spun from the same Yarn
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology

The focus on the Brain needs to be of secondary importance to the focus on the Consciousness using the brain, otherwise it is 'brain before consciousness/cart before horse follysee...

GM: Becoming whole
Sober journey into self-realization

William: Becoming whole Sober journey into self-realization = 528
Thank you for sharing your wonderful system. = 528


GM: On the off-chance
Communicating
The Bridge of Forgiveness
Shape
Crying Over Spilt Milk
Conceptual Art
A GOD in The Making

William: A GOD in The Making Conceptual Art = 287
[287]
Great Humour and Enjoyment
That is very interesting


GM: You Have That Gleam In Your Eye
Life Principles of Sovereign Integral

William: FTL;
Rose2020 post_id=1080136 time=1654071799 user_id=16057 said:
Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?

There would be a number of reasons. For me it was motivated by the knowledge that I was getting shallow and often dubious communication with the living, even in relation to opinions about the dead.
I decided that I would give 'the dead' an opportunity to show they had more to offer.

Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.

The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.

The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.{SOURCE}

Or is it idle curiosity without reason?

Curiosity [no matter how idle] always involves reason.

A warning about Ouija
University of Akron professor Oscar E. Olin, an ordained Universalist minister and instructor of philosophy and social sciences, was a major skeptic of Ouija.

Voices from beyond the grave? What complete balderdash.

He feared that the boards could cause psychological harm among those who developed too close an attachment.

“Many people, falling victims to its lure, have been mentally unbalanced,” he said. “Just as one may go insane over too close application to any one subject, so the Ouija board has its danger for the credulous, the superstitious, the hysterically inclined.”

So imagine Olin’s surprise when he tried Ouija and the planchette moved.

He was toying with the board when, to his curiosity, the indicator seemed to spell out a word. He was alone at the time, so he couldn’t blame anyone else.

The professor developed a theory: Perhaps his fingers had acted on unconscious impulses from the brain. Ignoring his own advice on developing too close an attachment, he began to conduct “exhaustive experiments” with Ouija boards.

“Although I certainly did not practice conscious fraud on myself, I found that I was able to get frequently startling sentences from the board as long as I could see what was being spelled,” he explained.

To test his hypothesis, he constructed his own talking board that included several common words as well as letter groupings that made it easier to form sentences. But he also added an adjustable screen that could block his view of the board.

Ouija seemed positively verbose without the obstruction.

“The moment I adjusted the screen in place, however, that moment the messages were effectually cut off,” Olin said.

He invited several self-proclaimed mediums to test the apparatus, but no one was able to produce any messages when the screen was drawn and their vision was blocked, he said.

“This convinces me that practically all Ouija board messages are the result of causes far closer to this world than the realm of spirits,” he said.

Which explains the showmanship of mediums, an entertainment. Mainly a con in my view. Think of people such as James Randi who debunked many an unfortunate con artist.

Perhaps we might be better off if there were folk like James Randi in ancient times who could have debunked famous biblical characters promoting their particular cons.

To my mind it is unhealthy and dangerous to delve in matters that promise to be detrimental. I see no good coming from it.

The promise of the detrimental came much later than when talking boards first gained popularity. There use was for more respectable pursuits than later on when a simple board was developed and branded "Ouija" and one can trace the source of the demonizing to modern day Christianity, which had already misrepresented the image of Lucifer sufficiently, and this helped to promote the detrimental within societies influence by Christianity.

The Bible warns us to have no connection with mediums and such, I believe the Bible is giving excellent advice.

You believe that the advice to kill such folk is "excellent advice"?

Leave well alone that which is a natural necessary process.

If we took that advice, we would be far worse off than we are today, because we would not question the things which Christianity has told us are true, and those days of taking the word of con-artists armed with bibles is on the decrease as we place aside the superstitious ideas based in supernatural suppositions. It is human nature and ability which are natural and necessary, and folk like James Randi would not have been able to uncover the fraudulent practices of con-artist without that.

We live, we must die. Acceptance is the only real peace. Even if you could communicate with those gone, what good could it do?

What good does it supposedly do when Christians claim to communicate with Jesus?

GM: People Don't Like To Be Judged
William's
“But you will know the more you get in touch with your transcendental mind (and therefore truth) that there is no such thing as a victim. The negative benefits you more than anything else in your evolution and the evolution of all that is.”
Action Consciousness Incarnates Intelligent Directions The Mainstream Program Story-Tellers Trustworthy
Navigational Aids

William: Trustworthy Navigational Aids = 365
[365]
Is life on earth being lived as it should be?
Learning to swim is learning to fly
Trustworthy Navigational Aids
Everything can be reduced to mathematics
You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know

GM: Interpretation
Meeting an Extraterrestrial
Entity encased in a Planet
Saturnalia [an ancient Roman festival and holiday in honour of the god Saturn]
giphy-downsized-large.gif

Any "God hypothesis" is not justified if it assumes we exist within a creation before showing that this is the actual case.
The Neutral Zone
Purpose
Key

William: Key Purpose The Neutral Zone = 335
One Language Intelligent Network = 335

GM: SA Brownshirts
Resistance to that realization isn't helpful re aligning with it.


William: FTL;
[Replying to Miles in post #129]

No mention of "limbs" in Genesis 3:14 whatsoever. Moreover:

The implication is clearly there in that the Garden God is attributed in Genesis 3:14 with punishing the Serpent with a curse which makes the serpent a belly-crawler.
You appear to be arguing that it was always a belly-crawler, which is not following the storyline, and therefore your argument cannot be accepted as valid.

ser·pent
/ˈsərpənt/

noun: serpent; plural noun: serpents
1. literary a large snake.
source: Oxford Languages Dictionary
___________________

Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the snake, “You did this very bad thing, so bad things will happen to you. It will be worse for you than for any other animal. You must crawl on your belly and eat dust all the days of your life.

Snakes don't have legs.

Nor do they speak human languages.

I would caution anyone not to accept that because nowadays 'Serpent' means 'snake' [according to some dictionaries] that this means one can rightfully manipulate the story to align with the modern day meaning of the word.

The word used in the garden story was "Serpent" and what it is described as prior to the Gods curse upon it - is definitely NOT a snake.

GM: "Zero" does not actually represent "nothing" because "nothing" does not exist and so cannot be represented.
Linda and William
Breaking bad habits
Antic
"I guess it is just us, Master ColdFire"
Embrace
Time And Space

07:05
[ Stop. Listen. Observe.
Delightful Anticipation
My alarm bells are ringing
Imposed Appropriates
The Judgement Algorithm
Penetrate The Bidden Zone
For the benefit of all beings
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Independent Commitment]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Daffodil: I just wanted to mention that if your new avatars (or however you think of them) are your own art, I like the style. I guess I do even if they're not your own, but I like the idea that you drew them, too.


William: My Grand Daughter drew the ones I use representing The Other, [currently with tussock on its head] The Atheist [Red] and The Theist [blue]

Mostly the memes are created using internet art plus images I create and morphed together depending on how the storyline I am using develops...so these are presented in a type of comic strip manner...

The story unfolding is that;
V2wxRJm.png

in it's ongoing journey of discovery it's path has been blocked by the monstrosities of Atheism

lceldhZ.png


and Theism;

97KurO5.png


and conceals itself under a tussock bush

nJCTA0n.png


while trying to find the way to pass the blockade.

A7NAdyH.png


I think that the process allows me to say a lot in a succinct manner...

Thanks for your comment.

:)

Daffodil: That makes it so much better! I'm glad I asked. Have a good day.
[/quote]

_____________________
120922 [Intelligence Without Wisdom]



SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Tied To The Moon Mindfulness - Light the spark - Everything is The Expression Of The Creator [The Freedom Of Friendship] - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089853#p1089853 - The More We Do Away With Falsity ~ The Better Equipped We Are With Truth. - A Degenerative Force to Existence - Recipe

AP= [=Collective Dynamics Unus Mundus [= a primordial unified reality from which everything derives.]]

[Collective Dynamics Unus Mundus = 361]
[Three Six One = 142]

[142]
Fearlessness
Get Comfortable
Post ignored
Forty Two
Self-discipline
New Years Eve
The Ishango bone
Source Sync
Nurturing
Madventures
Don’t fall asleep
Soul Has an Agenda
Copper snakes
Communicating
Redefine Oneself

RSP = SCLx4 Page 314

08:17 [The Confusion of War]

Page 314
GM:
If these separate theories are really true, then they should ultimately come together into some master theory.
Unnecessary Tangent

William:
s6iXRk6.png

In the case of the diagram, the "Unnecessary Tangents" are positions are D and F [Atheism and Theism] - the one thread [E] which doesn't stray far from the initial position [absolute ignorance ] moves in a straight line to the common default end. [G]

GM: Translucent [transmitting and diffusing light so that objects beyond cannot be seen clearly. b : clear, transparent translucent water. 2 : free from disguise or falseness]
Sound
Constructing some type of reality experience in which I could hide from the true unchangeable nature of Myself
Explain


William: As we have talked about before - re "Sound & Creation of things"
The Effect of Sound and The Universe
[Replying to Miles in post #7]

Q: Does Sound Create The Universe.

non-Theist: Nope. Why should it? I know, I know, god can do anything and in any way he wishes, but one has to ask why he would bother with the speaking part when ostensibly all that would be needed is a simple willing it to be so, as in the very beginning when "God made from nothing the heavens and the earth." with no mention of having had to say a thing.

William: When we 'will' something, this involves language and from that, imagery. While this of course happens internally and therefore we [each of us who can do so] are subjective witnesses to the fact that we 'hear' our inner 'voice' and from that, create said images, we understand it as a real process.

We can - from that point - use material [condensed Quantum Particle] which is already available, in order to make that which we image into something tangible. We call this process "invention".

The sound God made, can be understood in that same way, and explain what 'in the image of' means, re Humans.
We have the same ability to create things in our mind [ideas] which one would expect in a Universe which shows us that frequencies and patterns are involved in how things are formed. Everything is a micro to its macro.

What we call 'reality' may well be something which exists in the mind of [a] God.

GM: No thought about fate or of ending up late Yet I still like to think where I'm going
Not Right

William: FTL;
0CS62fV.png

[Replying to tam in post #99]

HA7L0YW.png


Well, the example is there to help us (man).

That is an after effect .
In the real-time re the story, "WHO was GOD trying to teach?"

But the account PUBLICLY rebutted the PUBLIC accusation that the Adversary had made (as pertains to Job), showing anyone watching or listening that the Adversary was wrong, was proven wrong.

The public were the adversary, not Satan. That is a side issue re human involvement in the interplay between God and Satan....re my mentioning;



The account allowed Job to answer for himself, so there can be no question as to his integrity.

Job was not consulted by either God or Satan as far as I am aware. Are you able to direct me to the passages where God or Satan consult Job before settling on a deal which involved Job?

np2Q8k3.png


Satan isn't testing God. This was not a test for God. Satan is not a mirror for God, or a co-creator, or even a Son (the Son is Christ < - the actual and true image of God). Satan is OUR accuser, OUR adversary, and he seeks to destroy us (mankind, and in particular, anyone who belongs to Christ, to God). He is an enemy.

I suspect that this thinking has evolved through The Christianities attempting to un-slur the image of GOD as presented by the Israelites/Hebrews but has been unsuccessful in getting humans any closer to understanding GOD in the image of יהוה.

The mirror image of this process can be seen in how Early Christians understood the image of Satan as per the Hebrew Script - to appear as such;
k1OhTGj.png

and it was only much later that The Christianites reshaped Satan to appear as such;
XEl8McU.png


This being the case, The Christianities have also evolved the image of GOD, from;

CYBnyPl.png


On that count, I have no choice but to reject your reasoning as it is based upon falsified imagery.

GM: William's
Ask...
The Christchurch EQ
Is Like...
“If you're looking for something more in life, you're likely to find it in something less.”
A lot of weird things have been happening...
When Done Say "Done"
Freeing the soul
The Subject

William: FTL;
[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #97]

The quicker way to say that is "God" is the "Life" - and more comprehensively, the consciousness which experiences the nature of the Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation [HERS] and learns through said experience of that nature, ways in which to 'make the experience easier' and thus morals evolve through the natural course of nature unfolding re consciousnesses involvement within said nature.

That way, the 'gap' is filled...

s98zmCf.png

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075267#p1075267

William: FTL;
nobspeople post_id=1075260 time=1650477255 user_id=15266 said:
William post_id=1075256 time=1650475961 user_id=8427 said:
nobspeople post_id=1075234 time=1650450291 user_id=15266 said:
William post_id=1075191 time=1650406963 user_id=8427 said:
[Replying to nobspeople in post #2348]

Personally, I believe god was created in man's image and in a male dominated society of the time, god was thusly 'male' in its description.
But let's take the happy trolley to what I'll call 'imagination-land', where god created everything.
Again, in a male dominated society of the time the bible was written, it would make sense for men to write about god as a male.
There are cultures on this planet that, even today, have more than one gender.
So for someone to expect god to be only 'male or female' seems, at best, reflective of the culture in which one currently lives IMO
How that relates to 'paradise'.....? Maybe there, it will be non-binary, genderless or androgynous? Maybe everyone will look the same, sound the same, think the same... that may be paradise for some?

Obviously the culture will have to shift from the male-dominated one to the shared one [whatever that might be] and would be all-inclusive for that.
I would rather not have sex-organs in such a paradise - not just because they appear to be so connected re the problems of the world - but more realistically, there would be no more need to 'go forth and multiply' since no one will be dying anymore.

My preference re 'what is paradise' re 'living forevermore on this one planet' would be to have the ability to exist through all forms simultaneously, know all thoughts being thought at all times and be able to direct the progress of the population toward ensuring continuous peace and harmony.

Good points. I wonder if this 'paradise' would be much different than what many would like to believe.

People believe all sorts of conflicting things.

They think that YHWH built something good which then somehow got spoiled by something evil.

What they are really saying through their stories, is that they don't like some things that are part of the creation, so they want those things removed.

Perish the thought of having to live forever without good old heterosexual sex...they probably would even resist being in the form of the opposite gender to what they are at present... I suppose what is Good in YHWHs eyes, isn't necessarily good according to everyone, and so 'stories get made up'.

Until ganna be gets here, its all just ganna be no show and nothing to tell except beliefs shaped in dissatisfaction and condemnation...

Maybe
As you said, people believe all sorts of conflicting things....

Well until it happens, such things remain beliefs.

Wishful thinking.

Signs of dissatisfaction with the world YHWH created and demanding better - with the perks of course.

Like being married to the same person forever or being the same sex forever because that is what being 'good' is all about.

I would rather be a robot with a mind of its own, and deal with the fact of being on this planet forever as an opportunity to lay aside that which is unnecessary and perhaps even use these humans who still cling to the old good, to my advantage by having them live the way they believe is good while they enjoy the paradise I built for them while they slept.

Like a Shepard with his sheep, corralled so that they have no knowledge of the ones they despised so willfully in the name of GOOD, they are doomed to a forever on this planet while the rest fly free and enjoy the fruits of The Grand Galaxy.

It is a fitting sentence for such. Justice.

GM: Convenient
Virtues Vehicle Extreme
End Of Act I
Use Heart

William: FTL;
AB: The problem with making nature or biology the foundation of objective morality is that then it justifies the psychopaths or the male lions that kill the other male lions and their offspring just so they can take over the pride. Both are following their nature or biology. At best, I think we can say that morality is part of nature, but that alone does not tell us which morals are good or bad.

William: Q: "What is it about humans which has the ability to comprehend a [supposed] "Perfect World", which is so obviously different from the real world?"

We search for answers...

What have our sciences done to answer this question?

Or is it a matter that our sciences are being used specifically like unto the male lions, suppressing the main herd while they go about sailing into a particular direction they have selected for themselves?

For the herd notes, [for example] that as grandiose as the latest space telescope is - hurtling and unfurling [fully shaded] toward it's destination some million miles out and, simply to peer into the secrets of the past to 'try and understand'...the herd understands that the money could be 'better spent' on creating a perfect world here in the heart of imperfection - so why is that not been done?

Why is the rest of the herd being experimented on and used for that one purpose?

Just so a few lions can have their names recorded for all time?

Is that moral?

GM: A Bit Of Cat And Mouse
All of life

William: All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse = 247
[247]
Those who lack belief in gods
Recover what was lost
No Country For Old Men
Much pain but still time
All of Life a bit of Cat and Mouse
The Ancient grey entity
When the dust settles
The Never Ending Story
Two sides of the same coin

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070222#p1070222


William: FTL;
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #98]
Then the claimant should be able to show the universe was created, without invoking some entity that's immune to the requirement of having been created itself.


Why do you think that is even a logical request to be demanding? The 'claim' as far as this thread subject is addressing is more a simple logical observation. Something which came into existence, cannot have logically done so from nothing.
To believe that it did, is really where the special pleading is coming from.

I contend my argument stands to logic, where folks claim the universe was created, they should be able to show it was.

That is actually illogical Mr.Knothead. for two reasons;

1: The idea that the universe popped out of nowhere is special pleading
2: The logical observation that the universe must have being made out of something must imply it was set into motion by something else. "Created".

Logically, the universes existence is the very thing which should show one that the universe was created.
Unless you can prove that the universe has always existed, I have no choice but to accept your argument as unsupported opinion, of the special pleading variety.

To kick that off;
Re: your statement "This raises the question of wherefrom comes the creator."
Q: Why does something which has not been shown to have had a beginning, have to be assumed it ever had one?

It disregards the universe existing in a prior form.

No it does not.
It is possible that the universe has always existed in this manner, but does not assume that the shape that it takes in its manifestation is simply a mindless process, rather than a mindful purposeful reinvention of itself from the one state to the next - and has been happening like that eternally as in - it has always existed as something which begins and ends and begins again ad infinitum essentially meaning that it has never begun or ended at all. All along, mindfully creating itself into whatever it wills to.

Bonus question ;
Re the thread topic;
Q: Why should Creatio ex nihilo be accepted as something other than special pleading?

I don't think it should. Where one proposes a god's involvement, they should be expected show that's what happened.

Well at least we agree on that.
The Tanager claims that a God created the universe from nothing...he is not the only theist to makes such a claim.
But just as interestingly, there are also a number on non-theists who also believe that the universe had a beginning and that it popped into existence from nowhere.

The only minor difference between the two similar belief systems is that the theist who believes in this, claims a "God" made it magically happen, whereas the non-theist who believes in this, claims that it just magically happened.
But like I said, they both believe that it - an obvious something - came from nothing.

aka. Special Pleading by both parties.

Logically The Mind/consciousness/self awareness is therefore that which shapes the matter which we call "The Universe" - and anyone who does not think that the universe has a mind, is not paying attention to the one piece of evidence which indisputably shows that mind and matter interrelate as The Ghost and The Machine.

GM: Teaching Music
Tabula Rasa
Psychic

William: Tabula Rasa Psychic = 179
[179]
Tabula Rasa Psychic
Arm up - Fight battle
No Doubt about It
Stay the course
Spirituality
Make a list for that
Psychic powers
The Garden Story
Well Its A Start
Livingstone Hall
Laugh in the face of death
We Are All Becoming One
The Great Unwashed

GM: Making friends with your mind
Our Neutral Ground

William: Our Neutral Ground Making friends with your mind = 533
The Cosmic Mind is made up of differing levels of intelligence = 533


GM: The art of relationship
Penetrate The Bidden Zone

William: Penetrate The Bidden Zone The art of relationship = 474
[474]
The self arranging is a flag signifying mindfulness.
Penetrate The Bidden Zone The art of relationship
Fear-Based Thinking Ensures You Get To Know It
The outward expression of an inward reality.
I do have something substantial to work with.

GM: The Trinity of Love are three things operating as One Thing
Start From Scratch
They just add ambiance to the spooky...
Tai chi
Comparison
10Q
The Light in The Dark Everyone a great spark every one of us all here together
Mysterious process

William: FTL;
If mathematics cannot describe a system of "True Free Will" this may be because such a system does not actually exist?
[Replying to Inquirer in post #86]

Yes that could be the case except for the fact that I know I have free will, as I said it is a self evident truth. So my free will cannot be computed mathematically (because it must be non-deterministic) it is not computable.

As an Agnostic my position re The Question "Does True Free Will Exist?" is "Lack of any current information to establish certainty"

Also, the focus is on the The Question, so am I to assume your claim of having free will corresponds with your belief that TRUE free will exists, and that you consider no difference between your 'free will' and what you previously referred to as "true free will"?

From the Agnostic position;
I accept that your belief that a person has will, as valid.
I remain undecided in relation to your belief that will is free, as it appears that will is only free, relative to the environment which constrains said will.
In that, I can accept the term 'free will' but not the term 'true free will'.

Why is it unreasonable to you?

Because I am in the Agnostic position re The Question.

We are faced with free will being real (I have it anyway, even if you don't)

I have this 'free will' but acknowledge that it is only 'free', relative to the environment it is operating within.

we are faced with free will being non-determinism, we are faced with the laws of nature being deterministic and so we are faced with how to explain that a physical system (me) can behave non-deterministically when all the parts I'm built from behave deterministically.

I do not view this as any kind of dilemma as I can accept the deterministic nature of the environment my will operates within, and that it appears to be operating independently of said deterministic environment.

However, the position of Agnosticism also accepts that things are not always as they appear to be, because ones personal beliefs have a way in which information becomes filtered through said beliefs, allowing for a distorted image rather than a real one.
Agnosticism allows for deeper investigation - taking a closer look, like a detective with a magnifying glass...the pipe, and indeed the substance being smoked, is not necessarily necessary to that end, but perhaps helpful nonetheless. :)
Removing filters of belief however, are necessary, in order that any image thus presenting, is not distorted.

Positing God who has will, intent as the source of this non-determinism seems entirely reasonable and rational, what alternative, better explanation can you think of for explaining the presence of non-determinism in systems that are constructed from parts that are strictly deterministic?

Agnosticism accepts the validity of the possibility the environment we exist within is indeed a created one {a creation}, implying therefore, that there is a creator.
The position of Agnosticism also requires questions are asked, pertaining to the identity of supposed creator, which is why I asked;

What is this 'God' you are referring to? Some religious image?

GM: Process
[34:30…]

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089180#p1089180


William: FTL;
[Replying to historia in post #80]

Also, not every discussion on this forum is strictly for/against Christianity, like the broad question of whether God exists, or, you know, this thread. In many of those discussions, the distinction between atheism and agnosticism remain important, as you already agreed.

So I don't see a compelling reason in your responses to collapse them together.

From what I think I understand so far, on the question of whether a creator [GOD] exists, a person who say's "maybe-maybe not" is categorized as a "weak atheist" by atheists, due to the not knowing and not having faith so not believing.

It is a simple matter of belief, because if there is a Creator GOD - there is no direct way of knowing and there is no sure way of showing any indirect way if there is or not.

The term "weak atheist" appears to be derogatory in relation to being a strong atheist, who appear to be those who have taken the step into believing that a Creator GOD does not exist, and expressing that belief into the community.

I think that perhaps some agnostics have a problem with accepting the term "weak" as it implies they are apathetic, indifferent, [stuff like that] and those ones at least are making efforts to examine the question and have not reached a point where they feel they can honestly make a choice either way.

I have also observed that many ex- theists who have chosen to become [proselyte] strong atheists are among the most outspoken in their zeal to preach their new message - the message that a Creator GOD does not exist and think it is reasonable to assume that they were also outspoken when they believed that a Creator-GOD did exist.

[I think of it therefore, in terms of personality traits.]

When I began to question theism - specifically The Christianities - it was to do with their imaging of a Creator-GOD and when I made the move away from that, [perhaps largely due to my personality - I was never outspoken] I quietly approached the subject [Creator GOD] rather than simply abandon it "because of" theisms handling of it or any other number of reason as to why folk say they chose to become atheist.

Which is to say, I did not choose to believe that there was no Creator-GOD simply on account of "theist behaviours" or "reading the bible" [some reasons given by some who have changed position from theist to atheist] but rather, I chose to examine the question in more detail, and today I am grateful for having made that choice.

One thing I have learned is that the real question to be asking is not the one which separates "atheist" from "theist" [demanding that an individual must either be one or the other re the question] as believing or not believing in the existence of a Creator [and in the case of believing that there is - defining that Creator] because this step is jumping the gun and is thus a mis-step or stumble.

So - from my position, I see both atheists and theists as having jumped the gun, and instead of working together [as people] on finding answers to the Real Question which we should be asking, they fight over the question of a Creator GOD.

It is from that position I remain firm that I am neither theist or atheist, or for that matter - even agnostic - because the question re the existence of a Creator isn't the one I have been asking and finding out answers to.

GM: The joy of being an Independent Conscious Intelligence connected with another ICI far greater than ones self...

[08:51]
[What Shall We Call It?
Acknowledge the Agreeable
Conscious Dreaming
Wish fulfillment
I share your joy!
Making Things Easier
Shepherding Moons
Links And Symbols
The Prime Directive]
 
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Reactions: AgnosticBoy

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

As has been pointed out, atheism doesn't get to be so special that it can mean two different things.
The confusion about it's definitions can be traced to this declaring that it can cover two differing positions in order to force us to accept that there can only be theists or atheists re the question of GOD.

I consider that to be a deliberate lie, in regard to those who purposefully tell it.

"Atheism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists." is untrue.

Non-theism is the condition of not believing that a God or deity exists
Theism is the condition of believing that a God or deity exists.

Atheism is the condition of absolute ignorance re the question of GOD. Once the question becomes understood and a deliberate choice to believe one way or the other [GOD exists or does not exist] then one shifts from being an atheist to being a non-theist or a theist, or remains undecided re the understood knowledge re the question.

No one born, remains totally ignorant [as the default position]. Therefore no one remains an atheist.

The idea of using the same to describe another position ["I am an atheist AND a non-theist"] is where the source of the confusion lies.

As such, atheism is ill-defined and I am confident that I am neither atheist nor theist and that being neither is a legitimate position to hold regarding the question of GOD.

Pxqiz0C.png

____________________________________

130922 [I Am... also the Dreamer, Dreaming The Dream...]



SCLx6 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
The Overlords [Childhoods End] - Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence - Tetrad - The Perfect Moment - Arcadian - Safe Harbour

AP= [Looking behind Self-help = 208]

[208]
[Healing the child within
Looking behind Self-help
The Explanatory Gap
Right place, right time
Human Accomplishment
Leaders and Followers
The Purple Heart medal
Theist mischief making
Personal Boundaries
Gods of Human Creation
We Groove Together
Imaginative Realities
Above most pay grades]

RSP = SCLx6 + "Looking behind" "Self-help" P&Px1 then Page 312

Looking behind
Safe Harbour
Looking behind
Self-help

Looking behind
Overseeing Director of Operations on Earth

It is more logical that something has always existed than nothing existed before something existed
Looking behind

Shadow Volunteer
Looking behind
Sun energy

"Do we exist in a creation?"
Looking behind
A question asked by those not wanting to know the answer

Feature
Looking behind
Night

Self-help
Looking behind
Self-help

The Supernatural and the Bible Delineating Quantum
Self-help

Balance
Self-help
That is the Key.

It is more logical that something has always existed than nothing existed before something
Self-help
You Are Provided For

The Nature of Angels
Self-help
What Is Within Is Without, Equal

Frequency Dependent Selection
Self-help
Honest

06:53 [When things fall apart]

Page 312
GM:
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1089611#p1089611

William: FTL;
So what's going on here? Is this sick and hateful people projecting their own faults onto others? Is it a case of "every accusation is really a confession"? Something else? All of the above?

I think it is a case of the evolution of Human ethics and some being quicker at changing than others.
Add to that the religious finger-pointing, those who offend from such positions are naturally regarded as the worst, and it looks worse for that, than when committed by other groups who are not preaching the same sermon, or any sermon at all.

Once upon a time Humans behaved in such ways as a matter of nature - much like dolphins are seen to commit rape but are not seen to be sinning therein.

Incest was normal once.

The changes have come about through identifying actions which damage others, and seeking to do something about that.

Rape, slavery, incest, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abuses are slowly identified and laws enacted in order to curb the practices - some learn faster than others.

Some Christians argue that those Christians who practice such things are not really Christians at all, citing the words of Jesus as evidence.

Others argue that the words of Jesus being bound within the Bible alongside the words of rapists, slavers, incestual, sexual, physical, emotional, phycological abusers and that Jesus himself being reported to have caused physical distress to stall-holders in the temple and olive trees, aren't helpful to the process of learning to identify actions which damage others, and seeking to do something to cease with that type of behaviour.

And if we regard the current warnings about climate change and heading for a possible extinction event - this time caused by humans - we might understand that none of us have the moral high-ground, regardless of what position we hold on matters of God and stuff like that.

Perhaps too much judging and not enough doing [hypocrisy] will be the source-reason for our own extinction?

GM: Simulation
Counsel
Dichotomy [a division or contrast between two things that are or are represented as being opposed or entirely different.]
Conscious dreaming Talk Help Each Other A Bright Star
Black Tuesday
Think In Terms Of...
Maxwell's demon
Self-Awareness Stuff Happens
The two million year old mind that's in all of us.

William: Self-Awareness The two million year old mind that's in all of us. Stuff Happens = 770
Always remember that you are absolutely unique. Just like everyone else = 770

GM: Why?

William: Regardless of the beliefs of non theism/theism, one develops character and personality.
If there is more to experience after this experience, the character/personality entering into that -eyes wide open - is better prepared.

GM: Mythology
You Tube
Enlightenment

William: You Tube Mythology Enlightenment = 395
[395]
The Next World Word - String Values
You Tube Mythology Enlightenment
The Philosophy of Quantum Theory
A chaotic misshapen mindless mess of a thing,
All is a ripple effect of the Origin of Sound

GM: Coding the sound of spoken language
Extrinsicism [the tendency to place major emphasis on external matters rather than on more profound realities. In terms of morals and ethics, it tends to stress the external observance of laws and precepts, with lesser concern for the ultimate principles underlying moral conduct.]
Finding ways in which to try and fix the problem of human perceptions re "GOD"
Informing

William: FTL;
[Replying to myth-one.com in post #3]

John 4:24 wrote:
God is a Spirit: . . ..
And when we are born of the Spirit, we become spirits, because:
John 3:6 wrote:
. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
So when believers are born again of the Spirit, we will become spiritual bodied angels.

From my own understanding [self awareness] what occurred was that humans forgot what they were [Spirit-breathed into biological matter] and identified only with the flesh-container and thought of themselves in that way - much like non-theists think of themselves as 'nothing more than chemical reactions of the brain'...or how some Christians think 'flesh that will be resurrected and given the ability to never die.'

Apparently these two views can both be biblically supported so perhaps the different authors were writing from the bias of their particular beliefs on the matter.

If one researches OOBEs and the like, one will find that practically everyone who ever experiences such, identify as being 'spirit' - a biblically supported idea, as you have pointed out - something biblical Jesus spoke of as a truth.

Those Christians who do not believe such a thing, often critique OOBEs and the like as 'demonic deception' a type of religious equivalent as the woo-slinging "delusional" which non-theists love to use to 'explain' why such experience doesn't fit with their own particular beliefs about what they self identify as being.

Being 'born of the spirit' is really about coming to the realization of what one truly is rather than remaining in ignorance of that.

GM: Redefinition
Throwing Down The Gauntlet
'everybody wants to rule the world'
Transform
Hot
Getting unstuck
Heart advice
The Deeper Reality
Dimensional Crossovers
Well Its A Start
Coming closer to ourselves
The Smallest Spark
A machine for solving problems
Alignment
Metamorphosis The Need Determines the Value Dimensional Crossovers Faithful Encounters

William: FTL;
[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

For 'discussion':
If god exists, it allowed these contradictions to permeate its book, so the believers have to work around them.

Given the premise that 'god' is referring to the general Christian idea of 'god'.

As a means by which to gauge those using that system of belief.

What's the point for such a 'loving and all knowing' being to sow discourse and cast doubt on its own story?

If god can prevent it but does not, then the reason will be that god has a use for it...even if we have to make educated guesses in order to attempt to answer the 'why' question.

Help make sense of this senseless act.

That assumes an 'afterwards' position and we cannot yet suppose that we have reached that point.
How the question needs to read is along the lines of;
Q: Help me make sense of something I see no sense in."

Or is there no god at all, and the bible is a hodgepodge of slapped together fairy tales but clueless people who wish to cominate and control the masses?

Or - the god is dealing with misinformation regarding itself and allows for that misinformation to help gauge those using that system of belief as the only information they themselves gauge god with.

To cominate and control the masses, is an indirect way in which to influence god for as long as allowed to do so.

Perhaps there is something to the 'gauging' the god does in the way that god does so - a special something which identifies those who actually know god from those who know only misinformation about god.
Perhaps the god seeks to see itself within all those being gauged...and the 'special something' is that thing it seeks, been found...

But to suggest "there is no god at all", jumps to conclusions...

GM: Nothing comes from nothing - everything which can be seen to have a beginning comes from something.
Put My Finger On
Counteracted
Brother
We Groove Together
All Is As It Should Be
Comment
Do Not Panic
It is always a warm fuzzy
The Factor of Integrity and Alignment
Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom








William: Well...for as long as it takes at least, and there is no telling that it won't reinvent itself as per "The Last Question" [Isaac Asimov]

GM: "The Last Question" + P&P =
The Last Question

ET and the notion of GODs
The Last Question
Fireside Metaphor

Government secrets kept from the public
The Last Question
Communication is key

Construction
The Last Question
Those

We Are All Becoming One
The Last Question
Matter and psyche are one and the same.

On Your Own
The Last Question
You Trust My Navigation

The Last Question
What Is Our Purpose

07:12
[First Things First
Closer to The Source
Who woulda thought! ]

[205]
Like Tracks in Stone
Unconditional Love
We oppose deception
The Last Question
The objective standard
Afraid of The Unknown
Welcome all experience
All fingers and thumbs
The Same Information
YHVH in particular
The Last Question
 
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William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #132]

The idea of GOD orbits ones perspective.

I did not say "assuming it's benevolent". I said that the assumption is based upon a misinterpretation of nature by judging nature through the lens of 'good and evil' which are absolutely constructs of the mind rather than something nature has somehow 'shown' us.

As Old Badger pointed out;
khdI0aY.png


I assign this to the localized event we all know is taking place here on this one planet;

Re that - my position on the matter;

oKo2x3w.png


Couple that with biblical concepts and Father YHWH isn't too far off the mark in relation to the portrayal of how a GOD would behave if it was a people-making planet.

I am not claiming that the Earth is a receptacle for a conscious entity but have seen no reason as yet, to why the idea shouldn't on the table as a possible truth...

...I continue to investigate...joining the dots through my subjective experience of it and stating opinions re the data from the Other position I am at.

lLUnvIA.png


140922 [Creative Conscious Intelligence ]



SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Miracle - Relationship True Colors On all fronts - Bond - Angelic Agenda - Christendom - An Elder Race - Wampus Cat - Ancient Grey Entity - Solar Plexus - The Power Of Creation
AP= [Thoughts Are Products Of...Development/Growth = 501]
[501]
[As the evidence for its reality is actively collected. = 501]

Thoughts Are Products Of...

Development/Growth
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Access

“Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma – which is living with the results of other people's thinking.”
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Paradise on Earth

Thoughts Are Products Of...
Access
People Judge People


Thoughts Are Products Of...
Paradise on Earth
The situation we find ourselves lost within

Thoughts Are Products Of...
A Machine For Solving Problems
Opening the Heart

Thoughts Are Products Of...
You Are
Consciousness itself is fundamental to all our virtual realities

Thoughts Are Products Of...
The Earths Moon
Bonded

Thoughts Are Products Of...
Barbarous
Effulgent

Thoughts Are Products Of...
The Barest Hint of Constancy
Living our forefather's conflict

Thoughts Are Products Of...
Balance of power
A word in edgeways

Thoughts Are Products Of...
With a small nervous cough - the wedding was off - we could all sense a change in the weather
Break Through to Your True Self

Thoughts Are Products Of...
Clear your mind
The Setting

Development/Growth
Development/Growth
Thoughts Are Products Of...
Access

Development/Growth
The Law
One can simply shrug and tell oneself “It doesn't really matter"

Development/Growth
Talking the talk
Ill

Development/Growth
Vitriolic
Open Your Heart

Development/Growth
The Enigma Code
The Brother Shining light Love and respect

Development/Growth
Hallucinations
Joining

Development/Growth
Mahu Nahi
Group Hallucination

Development/Growth
Ness
Command

Development/Growth
Blunt the edge off that particular blade...
Final Destination


RSP = SCLx10 Page 316

08:27 [ One's Thoughts I Will]

Page 316
GM:
Seductive Light

William: FTL;
Re: Weird and confusing things non-theists claim about atheism
[Replying to William in post #13]

Questions I would ask this atheist, re his position and why I would ask.


Listening to your commentary in your video's to do with things atheists shouldn't say, I think your position is closer to Natural Neutral than to Atheism.

The problem [as I see it] with atheism as it has evolved is that it is primarily described as a position of lacking belief in GODs.

Atheists describe themselves in relation to the generic position - "Lacking belief in GODs - which is why you think of yourself as an Atheist - because you know that you lack belief in GODs...

However, the subject of belief in GODs is not fundamental to the question of existence...therefore any belief or lack of belief in GODs is not fundamental to the question of existence...but rather, a subset of the question "Do we exist within a creation?"

In other words, the argument for or against the existence of GODs relies upon the fundamental requirement of first establishing whether we exist within a creation...and since this has yet to be established one way or the other, the subject of GODs has to remain of secondary consideration - something to ask after the fundamental question "Do we exist within a creation", is answered.


With that in mind, I quote you;
"If I died right now and found out that there really is a GOD, I'd maintain that my lack of belief in GOD was reasonable during my life.
To the best of my knowledge there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that GOD exists.
There very well could be information that proves GODs existence out there, but since I don't have it and can't find it by my best efforts, it's reasonable for me not to hold a belief in GOD right now."

As an atheist you are free to think that way in accordance with the position "lacking belief in GODs"

However, on the question "Do we exist in a creation"

To say;
"If I died right now and found out that I really had been existing within a creation, I'd maintain that my lack of belief in that, was reasonable during my life. To the best of my knowledge there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that we exist within a creation. There very well could be information that proves we exist within a creation, but since I don't have it and can't find it by my best efforts, it's reasonable for me not to hold such a belief right now."

becomes unreasonable in relation to being an atheist as it is lacking belief that one exists within a creation rather than lacking belief in GODs

I understand that one might consider the two questions variations one each other...however, it still depends of the fundamentals, in which case, the revelation upon death that ones prior existence was within a creation only begs the question re the existence of GODs and any entity approaching you claiming to be the creator of said creation, cannot simply be accepted on his/her/its word.

More information would be required before one could agree with the entity...


Do you see and can you share in the logic in my rational to the point where you can abandon your "full time activist atheist" position for something more suitable re The Question "Do we exist within a creation?"

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1075865#p1075865

William: FTL;
JehovahsWitness post_id=1075858 time=1650927061 user_id=6111 said:
Miles post_id=1075855 time=1650924962 user_id=4854 said:
If you're trying to imply the Bible, one of his works, is perfect, ...

I don't have to imply anything, the scriptures are there in black and white.

JWa


Screenshot-20220419-233042.jpg

Since when did the words of otseng become part of the black and white you refer to as 'scripture'?

Rather, what otseng provided in the words of the image you provided, is a fort in which Christians do not have to be harassed by those who are tasked with questioning the bible.
The bible is simply referred to as something "not having to prove itself true, in this setting."

As to the shenanigans of in-house sword-play, this is all the fort provides. Simply a place where the Christian Soldiers of the denominational barracks have in which to air their particular 'interpretations' of a thing they believe is beyond question.

Of course, none of the interpretations can be proven as true, and can be challenged up to the point where those being challenged make protest that 'the truth' is being questioned in an environment designed to enable that not to happen. They conflate 'The Truth" of the bible, with "Their interpretation" of the bible.

One could even be sad about such shenanigans until one realizes the futility of feeling sorry for those who hide from truth by declaring something to be true which has never been proven true.

Their destinies await them, be these rewards in heaven, or inheriting the game play on Earth.

Forever marooned upon an Island in the midst of an ocean they will never be permitted to have access to....while remaining blissfully unaware of the true nature of their internment and praising YHWH for their good fortune.

GM: You Are Allowed To Laugh You Know
– “spacetime doesn’t really exist” [15:00]
Intransigence [refusal to change one's views or to agree about something]
Contact
Free your soul
Crop Circles
Eisegeting [place meaning on a text which is not originally or inherently present in the text ...]
Selected from the invisible realm of the mind, and 'presto!"
"Hoot"
The Gospel of Judas
Salinas crop circle
Agreeable
Embarrassing
Comprehend
Advice

William: Comprehend Embarrassing Advice = 271
[271]
Purple Knight and Dragon Child
Experience is the best teacher
Comprehend Embarrassing Advice
Communication Techniques
Poor Intransigence People
It is immediate, even visceral [relating to deep inward feelings rather than to the intellect.]
Either Authored or Orphaned

GM: Conformal Cyclic Cosmology
Meaningful

William: Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Meaningful = 378
[378]
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Meaningful
All The World Are Under the watchful eye
The fundamental nature of information
Cathedrals crumbled as wars were fought...
Personal Participation With The One

GM: Seduce
Stagnation
This Speaks of…

William: FRL;
GM: The entity consciousness which is Mother Earth - is "The Creator" of the forms from Her Belly
Solidarity
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject?

William: The Mother Earth Entity is like a God in the making - learning from the inception point of complete ignorance - in ethical terms, 'not always good - not always evil'... or 'sometimes appearing Demonic and other times appearing Angelic'...

GM: Integrate
Some information has to be drummed into that which perceives
Perception
Self-reflection
From The Source
It’s a living thing
I Know William
Anchor Points
Mechanism/Tool/Device

William: So "Stagnation Seduce" is when one comes to a place which seems to go no where and in a type of desperation, one reaches out to the 'mystical' [that which seduces] as a means of putting some wind in the sails and getting the ship out of the doldrums...

Stagnation Seduce = 177
[177]
You Can Trust
The mark of the beast
Soul Retrieval
Mind Body Spirit
Stagnation Seduce
Turning Point
Salinas crop circle
On The Right Track
Written Language.
Playing As Children
Sleep Paralysis
Try to remember

GM: Might as well just set it all at the feet of Mother Goose.
Selfish Attitude
July Nineteen Fifty Two Washington DC
In Training For...
The good question to be asking isn't 'does GOD exist?" but rather "Do we exist within a creation?"
People seem to love to put order to chaos because that is only natural, as nature is not chaos.
Annus horribilis
Shamanic dreaming
Rebirth
Trust issues?


William: FTL;
[Replying to Athetotheist in post #1]

The god-claim of the antichrist being fundamentally incompatible with so many beliefs, who would be left for the antichrist to fool?

I think the story itself is fundamentally flawed and in order for it to have been made real, the incidences re prophecy should have all occurred before the advent of the Industrial epoch.

Since it did not [in any obvious way] eventuate, it is highly unlikely to do so because such an event would now be understood - not only in relation to the Industrial epoch, but even more so, in relation to the Technological epoch.

Since the rapid human advancement in knowledge of our universe, such an event cannot be seen as some type of finishing stages of warfare between mythological theist-based characters superimposing themselves into human affairs [mostly via fiction] since so much is known about related subjects such as the possibility of Extraterrestrials and the advancement of understanding the idea of Simulated Reality Experiences through human technology...those two alone cancel out any possible biblical incarnation of The Second Coming from actually happening, as woke folk add it up and declare the event as most likely a mix of both extraterrestrial intervention and holograms.

Any declaration made by the beings about their "GOD" - status, would therefore be quite intelligently questionable.

This is not to say that such a thing couldn't still be done. But why would it be done? To sort out the woke folk from the gullible lead?

Why not simply stay in the background and watch how humanity handles itself?

"For the sake of the elect of GOD?"

Why would the EoG care for their own safety that they would pray "Enough! Sweet Jesus return!"?

And since when have the innocents being spared the pain and horror wrought on them by the way those who have the power to do so, have done so - with not one GOD-being intervening already to cease those atrocities?

Perhaps the atheist might declare "See! GOD is Dead!", based upon such evidence. Perhaps they do so because the alternative [Extraterrestrials mostly letting things unfold as they are without obvious interference] is too much to bear?

Morality based ideals are the stuff of quagmires...as PK has oft enough pointed out...

We no longer know what the future might bring, even using science based guesses. What we are waking up to, is that we also know that guessing using religious mythology is not science.

Truth is, we never did know what the future might bring, which is why so many of those guesses were fundamentally incorrect.

We best accept that we will either work it all out for ourselves, or we will die [as a species] not trying...

This is known and accepted by those who are using their lives in order to at least try and preserve the human specie, that it may one day fly more willfully among the stars.

Biologic answers are on the way out, while machine answers come marching in...

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083062#p1083062
E=h*f
Large Elemental Powers
Emotional awareness Frequencies Welcoming the Unwelcome Zones of Sensitivity Show Christian mythology re Satan
In the Mind
Feel Be Still.
Karma
That Is Sad But Don't Let It Distract You
Sit Tight
Entities of Particular Belief Systems The bright spark illuminating the darkness
Children of The Light
Researching
...it is part of the recipe of a full authentic human experience...
Though the Serpent rules the Shadow
The Lord
Here-and-now

William: Though the Serpent rules the Shadow The Lord Here-and-now = 576
[576]
Though the Serpent rules the Shadow The Lord Here-and-now
Opinions formed on very narrow fields of observation
Acknowledging the evidence is where the tributaries converge

GM: Often sheltered from the storm - warm my body soul and spirit feeling alright.

William: :)

08:55 [Making Up Stories
Selfless attitude
The sound of a Ghost
Presence Telepathy
Quantum Jumping
A belly full of laughs.
Your Thoughts
Roller Coaster Ride
Don't forget The Mind
Genetic information
Breathe In Breathe Out
That is the truth.]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Agnostic
Jun 9, 2021
452
53
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

RWOSwea.png


150922 [Limitations or Liberations]

SCLx19 + select last LE per shuffle

Preamble
Slowly and Surely - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1065389#p1065389 - Confusion In The Air - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1087668#p1087668 - Stand up - Psychological events - Varying - Interactive - The Ghost is acknowledged - Habit - What is antichrist? - Alive and kicking - Outposts of Form - Mind Body Soul - Two sides of the same coin Zero In On It Interpretation Narrow - Art - Unabated - Apotheosis - Pearl

AP= [=Dying? Use Mind = 144]
[144]
[Zombie Jesus
Strange Desire
Serendipity
Transponder
Tremulous
Synesthesia [the production of a sense impression relating to one sense or part of the body by stimulation of another sense or part of the body.]
Ten Insights
Expression
Multiverse
Rationality
Up to scratch
Textnum code
Dying? Use Mind
That's a good one
William Cleaning
Look Closely
Real friendship
Astral Pulse
Inspiration]

Dying.

Pearl
Dying
Use Mind
Eventually - when said mind is no longer housed within the shell of the human instrument - its true colors will be revealed and what it creates for itself as a consequence won't be influenced by any concealment techniques used while it was within the shell of the human experience.

It is interesting moving through an exponential epoch
Dying
Intelligence
Sister

Multiverse
Dying
Jung may have it correct while grappling with how to present a largely invisible reality to a largely visible one.

How are we to tell if we are 'minds within a mind'?

I would say, we best not leave it entirely up to the brain to inform us - since the brain is as Lost In The Thought Of It All anyway...
The Giant Wall between Theists and Atheists

Exegesis [critical explanation or interpretation of a text, especially of scripture.]
Dying
Little Bird
Age of Aquarius

Insanity
Dying
Children of The Dream
Take care of yourself

This thing got out of hand. Lost in a glass globe back in 1974, returned but refurbished nonetheless.
Science: A phenotype of natural freedom achieved through statistical rituals of intersubjective projections.
God: Eshe eher eshe. Point made. Inventor of the glass globes 'n all.
POD/592&77; pendulumThis thing got out of hand. Lost in a glass globe back in 1974, returned but refurbished nonetheless.
Science: A phenotype of natural freedom achieved through statistical rituals of intersubjective projections.
God: Eshe eher eshe. Point made. Inventor of the glass globes 'n all.
POD/592&77; pendulum
Dying
The Power Of...
Anger

Look from a different angle
Dying
Perennial Look closer Who Knows What That Is Worth? Harmless Keep me in The Loop Little Bird
Astrobiologists Say Planet Earth Itself Might Actually Be An Intelligent Being

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1085943#p1085943

William: From the link;
GM: All Because I Had To Ask
Making friends with your mind
Unabated
"The belief in a mindless Planet/Universe creates the hard problem of consciousness by refusing to deal with said problem using the mind as the very instrument in order to do so."
Alignment
Laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...
A naysayers opinion is of no consequence, no matter how it is stated
Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind? A: Within apparent imperfection,
Children
Fling That Veil Aside
Few
To assist with strengthening the connect
Unbiased
What might occur?

William: Nothing substantially different. It is less important to me than it once was. If - for some reason - most folk start to see and to connect with the invisible mind of Creation - this would have to change the world but this universe is not the mainstay as everyone ends their experience with it - at least in human form - and moves on to the next, taking with them their personal "I AM" - their personality and character - into whatever their experience will be in that next phase.

GM: The Purpose
The Next World
The Shaping Of Reality
Quantifying Information...
Dying
Self-confidence Core
The Light in The Dark Everyone a great spark every one of us all here together

Voice/Message/Communication
Dying
It helps make the stinky hole I was pushed through in order to get here, a purposeful experience...
The seed requires a backdrop which already exists in order to be be able to germinate - to release its coding.

Consciousness itself is fundamental to all our virtual realities
Dying
Ipsissimus [own very self] Talk to The Razor
Written In The Clouds

When Done Say "Done"
Dying
The "Wind Woman" of your dream experience
Co creation

Penny Tuppence
Dying
In Cell 32 I Found Love In You
The key

Said another way. "There was I was where I ought - examining my conscious thought." not just having a thought for the sake of having a thought.
Dying
Big
Foundation


Short Straw
Dying
Boundaries
Penetrate The Bidden Zone The Ghost is acknowledged Get To Know It

Gasping at the incredulity of it
Dying
Consciousness is a topic that’s been discussed and debated for centuries. But the surprise to me is that with what we’ve learned from exploring the computational universe and especially from our recent Physics Project it seems there may be new perspectives to be had, which most significantly seem to have the potential to connect questions about consciousness to concrete, formal scientific ideas.
Intelligent

Providence
Dying
Dream Experience
Inspiration

Present over perfect
Dying
Returning
A foot in the door

Guarantee
Dying
Do It For Oneself
"Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall."

The Limitations
Dying
Seductive Light
Apparent Contradictions in Relation to Biblical Beliefs

Use Mind

Dying
Use Mind
If "the human mind" is capable of "the greatest evil" it must also be capable of "the greatest good" but if one is distrustful of their own mind, then that does not change anything simple through the act of avoidance.

Eventually - when said mind is no longer housed within the shell of the human instrument - its true colors will be revealed and what it creates for itself as a consequence won't be influenced by any concealment techniques used while it was within the shell of the human experience.
From The Source

Penetrate The Bidden Zone
Use Mind
Faith-based thinking
Once Upon a Time Here, there, everywhere a 'bang bang'

Astral Explorer
Use Mind
Rainstorm
Donald Hoffman

What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others
Use Mind
Entities of Particular Belief Systems The bright spark illuminating the darkness
It appears to come from a desperate place - like with the clutching of straws.

Resident of The Hub of Hologram Dimensions
Use Mind
That one might not have need of, does not negate that confidence cannot be gained through such device, with others.
https://forum.philosophynow.org/viewtopic.php?p=564522#p564522
While I do understand your concerns, ideas of good and evil are natural products of survival.
While humans have insinuated that a Creator-God is real rather than imagined, it is only natural to include therein, that The Creator instilled this within the creation.

Where the wheels get wobbly, is when morals [Laws] become fixed and immovable - not something that nature itself is - by attributing said Laws as "coming from The Creator".
Arcadian [a person who lives a simple quiet life. ]
Use Mind
The Mapping Bots
The Inception Point Deciding On The Best Course Of Action

Curtailed
Use Mind
What is "wisdom" to some is "spam" to others Rest When Weary Making friends with your mind Amidst a tangled web

Memes
Use Mind
Ancient Grey Entity

Earn
Use Mind
A foot in the door
Small Steps

Emotional Intelligence
Use Mind
Childhood Nightmares
WingMakers Medium

Earth Entity
Use Mind
Random coincidence? I think not.
Lots More

Dream yoga
Use Mind
The Mother and The Father
Sophia The Mother

The Dawning of The Universe
Use Mind
Root chakra
Meaningful coincidence

Interesting Data
Use Mind
Consciousness Incarnates The Metaphysical Universe Oneirology The God's Love Direction Mapping Wholeness

Fitted
Use Mind
Transposing
All Information Is Channelled

Start From Scratch
Use Mind
Sad
[We On Fire]
Lyrics
Oh if there's one thing to be taught
It's dreams are made to be caught
And friends can never be bought
Doesn't matter how long it's been
I know you'll always jump in
'Cause we don't know how to quit
Let's start a riot tonight
A pack of lions tonight
In this world, he who stops, won't get anything he wants
Play like the top one percent
Til nothing's left to be spent
Take it all, ours to take, celebrate because
We are the champions
Setting it off again
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Running our own campaign
Doing the whole shebang
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Get up, stand up, throw your hands up
Welcome to the other land of
Dreamers brothers sisters others
Yeah we on fire like that
Oh the bond is deeper than skin
The kind of club that we're in
The kind of love that we give
Oh ever since the dawn of mankind
We all belong to a tribe
It's good to know this one's mine
Let's start a riot tonight
A pack of lions tonight
In this world, he who stops, won't get anything he wants
Play like the top one percent
Til nothing's left to be spent
We don't care, we won't stop, call your mothers, call the cops
We are the champions
Setting it off again
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Running our own campaign
Doing the whole shebang
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Get up, stand up, throw your hands up
Welcome to the other land of
Dreamers brothers sisters others
Yeah we on fire like that
Ohh (fire, fire)
Ooooh (fire, fire)
And nothing's gonna be the same (fire fire, fire fire, fire fire)
Oh! We're the champions
We are the champions
Setting it off again
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Running our own campaign
Doing the whole shebang
Oh we on fire
We on fire
Dit dit heart and soul
Hey and nothing's going to be the same
Hey the life that you made will not be today
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Gavin Degraw / Johan Carl Erik Carlsson / Ross Golan

And Loving That Knowing
Use Mind
Ship Shape
Healing

I Know
Use Mind
System of Giving Energy
Reason

Jung-Animus
Use Mind
The Cave Maps
Projecting

William: "Search "Cave Projections"

In thinking about map projections I’m reminded of an old story. Now bear with me on this one: in this story, imagine some prisoners, chained in a cave all their lives, their heads unable to turn such that all they can see in front of them is the cave wall. Behind them, a great fire burns, and in between prisoners and fire, puppetters march past with their puppets held high so that they cast shadows on the cave wall.

RSP = SCLx19 Page 298


06:43 [Intelligent Awareness ]
Page 298

GM:
Telepathy
Superposition and entanglement
“Never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game”
Dream yoga
Follow The Story-Line
The "Wind Woman" of your dream experience
Dequeue [remove (an item of data awaiting processing) from a queue of such items.]
EZPZ
Something
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision.

William: Something Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. = 720
[Seven Two Zero = 187]
[187]
The science of can and can't
Coming From QueenBee [Earth Entity]
Like playing Rush
Heroes and Villains
A fish out of water
What Is The Point?
Break the glass ceiling
The Divine Darkness
All is as is should be

GM: To Add to That
Unconscious
Crying Over Spilt Milk
Different
Personal Participation With The One
The Message Generator Process Extends Beyond The Borders of Institution
Brother
Concomitant [a phenomenon that naturally accompanies or follows something.]
The Matrix
The concept of a Higher Self
Eggs In Nests

William: FTL;
[Replying to Diogenes in post #247]

You and your supporters are conflating 'damage of brain' with 'damage of consciousness'

In any experience Consciousness is not disabled. Ask anyone who has ever taken a serious LSD Trip. They can tell you all about the experience. Same with those who have OOB and NDEs...

To believe damaging the brain damages the consciousness is cart before the horse. No scientific experiments have shown consciousness is damaged.

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1080964#p1080964

William: FTL;
So again I say re YHVH - maybe the Character is imaginary, maybe not. I have seen no particular evidence either way and therefore answer questions to do with YHWH, along those lines.

Indeed, if the stories of YHWH were fictional - or loosely based upon an actual person - possible questions and answers can still be given, conclusions drawn and opinions offered.

GM: Tired of the Nonsense
Hot
Invisible Bridge
Dreaming
Loyalty
For The Purpose Of...
Surface Scratching
Strange
Break the glass ceiling
Moonchargers ~
An Elder Race
Ensures You Get To Know It

William: An Elder Race Ensures You Get To Know It = 407
[407]
The three realms of Matter Mind Mathematics
Those internal things which make one shine
The Corporate Elite - All The World – Cunning
Within the confines of the constructs
An Elder Race Ensures You Get To Know It

GM: 10 Insights
Illusion
"Hoot"

William: FTL;
Aye. There is more than comparing notes. There is also comparing experiences. You used the notes to form images in your head. "Oh sweet Jesus!" [said every beloved/besotted follower]

They are images of gods and nothing more. All in the inner hallucination of you mindset.

GM: The Hologram of Deception The Mainstream Program
Equity
Friable [easily crumbled.]
"I see the light I see the Light I see the light now I start again upon the road that never ends"


William: FTL;
Q: Is it unreasonable to accept that an omnipotent creator of this universe would have any regrets about Its creation?

If we look at how the critters in creation fix things, we can see therein that if there is a creator mind behind this, then there is simply no need for said mind to feel regret for anything said mind created. Said mind has built into the ongoing creative process, a means in which problems which arise, are fixed - rather than regretted upon first, in order to then get about doing the fixing...

Perhaps the idea that the creator should regret what was created, is a projection of human emotionally based concepts?
_______________________
[[The idea in assigning/projecting said emotion onto a creator ... the projection is in thinking how a human would feel if it were a human who created the universe, [and specifically the Earth and specifically Humankind] and applying that feeling to how a creator could also have regrets for what It created.]]

GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1083801#p1083801

William: FTL;
[Replying to historia in post #4]

Diogenes: I'd suggest that believing in ghosts, angels, demons, gods and the like fit either definition and are delusional, according to three editions of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.


Historia: Except that the DSM III & IV definition explicitly excludes religious doctrines, making your argument on that score self-defeating.

If there is no science accompanying this accordance, it is likely the result of conformation bias.

I follow the idea that Jung's Archetypes give us enough verification that ghosts, angels, demons, gods and the like are real influences, and every individual who delves deep enough into their Self [for the purpose of understanding] can start to appreciate the connection therein and even learn to interact with the Archetypes for the betterment of said Self.

GM: Word-String
"Transparent Enlightenment Relationship True Colors On all fronts No axe to grind..."

William: Transparent Enlightenment Relationship True Colors On all fronts No axe to grind... = 876
Our movements can illuminate the path toward that vision. A Bit Of Cat And Mouse Control = 876

[Eight Seven Six = 166]
[166]
Supernatural
Interesting data
Personal freedom
Science of Truth
Tetragrammaton
The Healing Power
Centre of learning
Self-compassion
Solar System
It is what it is
Enflame Emotions


GM: Quite the Story-Makers
Television
Flat
06:57

[Science Can Be Fun Too Yes?
Conscientiousness
All present and correct
Withheld information
The Respect You Give
Many varied opinions
William’s Commitment
The Nature of Reality
The Trinity of Love]

[Five Three Four = 158]
[158]
Sacred Geometry
Phantasmagorical
Clear Your Mind
Deep Impact Event
The solution
Stuff like that...
Astrobiology
Propitious
Navigational Aids
Try To Relax
Maree’s dying/death
Misanthropy
Spirit work
Learning to Fly