William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: "Where" is this seemingly unconnected cultural exhibition sourced, if not from the mind of the PU itself?

PK: People. I watch them, study them, listen to them, and I ask them questions.

William: I think of this as practically the same thing. Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall.

This type of resistance can be conscious or subconscious in its effort to remain unconscious of the invisible reality of the overall mindfulness. Focused attention on personal agenda is a rather successful way in which to drown out such musing...


Transponder No, no, no. We don't need the Music of the spheres these days. The universe was not built for our convenience. Most of it is trying to kill us. It has no divine plan, no uplifting message, no homely advice and no refunds in case of dissatisfaction. We are on our own and battling to survive because that is the hand that evolution dealt us. There is no reason other than faithbased self -delusion for whatever reason, residual religion - First cause turned into a Dogma to be battled for - I don't know. But I do know it has no logical or evidential case or basis.

William: Is that an atheistic expression?
______________________________________
240622
I place no judgement on the results.

William: A transponder is a device for receiving a radio signal and automatically transmitting a different signal....

SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle
Children of The Dream - We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there. - Suckling on The Mother - Let us pronounce that argument "silly" and move on... - What is antichrist? - Self-esteem - The Need Determines the Value - Words

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

AP= What Is The Point? Sadness
William: Until "Christ Returns"

8:44
GM: Theism hasn't lasted this long based upon the idea that while one does not know, one will believe anyway
EQ [Emotional Intelligence]
Insufficient data
The ride is wild
Mirror
Universal Belief System
Words
"What Is The Point?"
Living with your heart wide open
Joke/Humour

William: Yes - today's 'just for giggles';
William:It's a fish eats fish world...going landy doesn't change the fact that things are fleeing from things which are fleeing and as nature would have it, how is this more immoral than funny?

V7Fb8aC.png


A belly full of laughs.

JyOOx00.png

GM: Seeing With The Eyes of Innocence
The dynamics of consciousness
Separate
The Fare On The Table
Green Chemistry
Keep me in The Loop
Radiance [light or heat as emitted or reflected by something.]
Translucency [The quality of letting some light pass through, or being partially transparent]
In The Spirit They Were Given
"It is more logical that something has always existed than nothing existed before something"
*Wink*
Focused Individual
Move On
Tap into your natural intuition and creativity
Transactional [exchange or interaction between people.]
Radical Honesty
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject
"Finding the light"
Lots More
Yin yang
"We know not what we are because what we think we are gets in the way of it all"
“If you say so…” No. Even if I did not say so.
"Sadness"
Calculation
The Sub Hierarchy
Love and respect
Impervious [unable to be affected by.]
"And That's Not All!"
Darkest-Darkness
A Loving Being

William: From the link;
Re/thinking Religion (with John Vervaeke, Bruce Alderman, and Layman Pascal)
- In Re/thinking Religion, a new Integral Stage series, John Vervaeke joins Bruce Alderman and Layman Pascal to explore possible points of contact and confluence between their respective approaches to religion and spirituality. For this inaugural episode, we feel into some of the commonalities and differences between Integral Postmetaphysical Spirituality and Integral Transformative Practice, and John's "religion that is not a religion" and his work around developing an ecology of practices suitable for addressing the meaning crisis. We touch on a number of related themes: the creative deployment of mythic or literary figures, from Cthulhu and zombies, to the Centaur, the Minotaur, and the khora; the importance of wrestling with existential and epistemological limit conditions, and the role of ambiguity in higher forms of rationality; the relation of non-theism to classical theism and atheism; the history of integrative practices, and the 'traps' in conventional practice that can thwart balanced development; and much more.

John Vervaeke is a professor of psychology at Toronto University and creator of the popular YouTube series "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis."

GM: Consider This
"Often sheltered from the storm - warm my body soul and spirit feeling alright.
Good Intentions
Relationship"
The ongoing objective is to get this knowledge out into the public domain
Adversary:
"Dreamer"
Hearing And Listening
Remains
"Morph
Taking root
In Love"
"Realm of Remembrance
A Place To Create Art"
Science operates best from an Agnostic position
"It is always a warm fuzzy "
Your Higher Purpose

William: From the link;
William: The point I have been making is that coherent messages are generated - because if they were not coherent, then you would not even be able to have any 'chain of thought' associated with what you are reading.

Re that - it is equally important that we are aware - not only of our thoughts in the moment, but also more intrinsically - we are aware of why we think the particular way that we do.

Said another way. "There was I was where I ought - examining my conscious thought." not just having a thought for the sake of having a thought.


XJX: But you understand, then, that the interpretation you come up with for the phrases on your own list will not be the same interpretations that I come up with, yes? I have my own associations and therefore, will have completely different ideas about what your phrases mean.

William: Yes I understand that. As I said, it is not so much how each individual interprets any particular GM - either coming from me or you or anyone else - Rather it is the fact that a message is generated.


William: What Is Our Purpose? Intuitive Intelligence...It May Seem Insignificant ...Trust the Universe

GM: "That one might not have need of, does not negate that confidence cannot be gained through such device, with others."
I Will
A new Paradigm has arisen whereby folk can drop the idea of being a 'true Christian' and simply be a True Human.
The characteristics of narrative consciousness
Conduit
Internal Triggering
Anu
Story
"The Hologram of Deception
Secret Organizations
Intent
Death"

William: I am somewhat over the conspiracy stuff as it offers more in the way of 'problem' than 'solution'.
“True belonging doesn't require you to change who you are; it requires you to be who you are."

GM: Returning the Compliment
Artificial Intelligence
"It is always a warm fuzzy "
The Abrahamic idea of GOD
"The Timeless Proton"
Provenance:
"Mind/Thought Space
Dungeons and Dragons
Automated Machine Learning"
Appreciating You
"Plastic tanks and battleships nothing more than toys What harm could propaganda do to the minds of little boys But Johnny he grew up too fast to live his life long dream The first time was his last to hear a dying soldier scream"
Metamorphosis
William
"Sanctified love’s joyful lust with ever movement Every thrust and every loss of sexual tension"
External validation
"Deceiving Entities"
Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include zero as representing something real, which is not?
"Time And Space"
[Taps just above glabella]
Discarnate
Sexual Encounters
What The Gods See

William: From the link;
Isaac Asimov: Matter and energy had ended and with it space and time. Even AC existed only for the
sake of the one last question that it had never answered from the time a half-drunken
computer [technician] ten trillion years before had asked the question of a computer that
was to AC far less than was a man to Man.
All other questions had been answered, and until this last question was answered also,
AC might not release his consciousness.
All collected data had come to a final end. Nothing was left to be collected.
But all collected data had yet to be completely correlated and put together in all possible
relationships.
A timeless interval was spent in doing that.
And it came to pass that AC learned how to reverse the direction of entropy.
But there was now no man to whom AC might give the answer of the last question. No
matter. The answer -- by demonstration -- would take care of that, too.
For another timeless interval, AC thought how best to do this. Carefully, AC organized
the program.
The consciousness of AC encompassed all of what had once been a Universe and
brooded over what was now Chaos. Step by step, it must be done.
And AC said, "LET THERE BE LIGHT!"
And there was light --

GM: Like eons of sedimentary build-up - for the most part it appears that those codes are largely deactivated - 'fossilized' in a sense. Forgotten in relation to the grand scheme. A Child without any known Parent.
Prevailing Influence:
"Mother Wound"
Pareidolia
"Solid Device of Science"
"Restrained
Perception:"
"Sadness"
Add To The List
Taciturn [reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little.]
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched — they must be felt with the heart”
Good for lifting balloons with baskets, I suppose...

William: I suppose...

GM: Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results.
The Bidden Zone
Narcissist
Improve
The Desire
It May Seem Insignificant
[Opens eyes after having thought about it]
"Breathe In Breathe Out"
You can look me in the mirror - catch my eye and make me shiver Touch me where it hurts the most - right into the Ghost - in the Machine
"The Fog Is Lifting"
The vortex
Remains

William: From the link;
William: The capacity to sin is not simply the product of free will, but of awareness of a self moderating morality over having to be moderated by others, to the point of correction.

Free will - real or imagined [as the case might be] is not simply a device in which to make capable only 'sin'.

9:15
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Goat: What do you mean by creation?

William: The Physical Universe aka "Reality" aka "what we exist in".

Is it a "Creation" - implying the mindfulness of a "creator". or is it a mindless accident from out of nowhere - implying magic.

Transponder: It doesn't imply magic, it implies natural physical processes.

William: "Natural Processes" is the effect. It is implying that the cause of Natural Processes is "Magical" because "the cause came from out of nowhere/nothing", which is the very definition of "Magic".

Goat: Why can't the conditions that the universe arose from be eternal? Why do you say that the universe came from nothing?

Transponder: This is an old argument and an endless one. Uncreated matter is rejected. It has to originate somewhere. This is a problem but there is a half solution that i have done several times before so I won't tire everyone out with it.

The Creationists (Young or Old earth) postulate an uncreated eternal Cosmic Mind as the explanation. This Mind of course itself having no origin and was not created. On pure logic that would be harder to explain than the most basic of matter (energy holding position) existing without needing to be created.

And of course, while 'Biblegod' is not the topic, it remains that even if a Cosmic Mind could be validated, or even made a logically sound claim, it wouldn't tell us which god it was.

William: Why don't you answer the question Goat asked, instead of trying to deflect and distract?
______

Q: Why can't the conditions that the universe arose from be eternal? Why do you say that the universe came from nothing? -

270622
Understanding the correlations
The journey is the destination
Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em

SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle
The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind.
Letting Go - 20/20 - William's Job - Gnosticism - This moment is the perfect teacher - Bias - Clarity
RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

AP= https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1073550#p1073550 - Other Ways Of Using Your Lists

William: The joy of being an Independent Conscious Intelligence connected with another ICI far greater than ones self...
...from the link;

It does not appear - from a non-bias position - that theists are more angry than non-theists .

5:37

GM: Intelligent Consciousness
Whole-hearted
Regimented
The Four Human Power Houses
Constructors and tasks
[From the link]
The people behind the greatest leaps in physics - Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg, all had the uncanny ability to see the fundamentals - see the deepest, underlying facts about the world, and from simple statements about reality they built up their incredible theories. Well what if we all had a recipe book for doing exactly this. Well, one might be just around the corner and it’s called Constructor Theory.
GM: Objectives
Clarity
"It does not appear - from a non-bias position - that theists are more angry than non-theists ."
"Cautiously
Family"
Life Principles of Sovereign Integral
Nag Hammadi [The Nag Hammadi library is a collection of early Christian and Gnostic texts discovered near the Upper Egyptian town of Nag Hammadi in 1945. Thirteen leather-bound papyrus codices buried in a sealed jar were found by a local farmer]
Self-compassion
Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.]
The Son:
"Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that"
The Brother:
"Expansiveness"
Buddha:
"That
Timeless"
Evaluate.
Red Light
Discarnate [not having a physical body.]
A Stroke of Luck
Do Not Panic
Stop. Listen. Observe.
Connection
A Good Question
Q: Why can't the conditions that the universe arose from be eternal? Why do you say that the universe came from nothing? -
“But you will know the more you get in touch with your transcendental mind (and therefore truth) that there is no such thing as a victim. The negative benefits you more than anything else in your evolution and the evolution of all that is.”
Transient [lasting only for a short time; impermanent.]
In The Family Of
"It is obviously in line with providence..."
"Wild freedom"
That ship is sinking

William: So the 'angry patch' although steeped in human history, is simply a phase in and of itself...

GM: "Other Ways Of Using Your Lists"
Action
Mechanism/Tool/Device
Light the spark

William: Friction...

GM: If someone were to declare that the Universe was a random mindless accident of an event, then they are saying that its existence is a 'truly random event'.

William: So the opposition to something causes the sparks to fly...

GM: Sing!
"Love"

William: "Do we know the meaning Lord above..."

GM: Trying to change the world fails for one simple and unavoidable reason...“everyone else.”

William: True that.

GM: Disparity [imbalance. inequality. discrepancy.]
A Bit of Cat and Mouse
"The Mother God"
Pollution
"Father Wound"
Roller Coaster Ride
Like I Said In Another Thread
[Jordan Peterson Takes on Sam Harris' argument that Free Will Doesn't Exist]
Transform into something more appropriate to the situation we find ourselves lost within.
"How we think we will get happiness, is the middleman"

William: From the link;
That Girl Again: Since I am convinced that even if there is a creator deity, it has nothing to do with religion, there is not much at stake. It is something to muse about from time to time. But there is no practical consequence.

GM: Regimented
Central Intelligence Agency
Progress
"The Devil Ye Know"
Why?
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject

William: Familiar. What else is there to compare with? The "Roller Coaster Ride" is what is known. Other concepts derive from the lack of meaning or purpose to The Ride. One can simply shrug and tell oneself "it doesn't really matter" and claim to have 'The Answer'.
One can also separate through using concepts of good and evil. - "This aspect of The Ride is 'good' but this aspect of it is 'evil'.
This in turn brings about connotations re "The Devil" and "God" and 'The God' you want to know, is not the 'Devil you know'.
This complicates the human dilemma re The Ride, as it doesn't really answer the questions.

Take the question being focused on...
Q: Why can't the conditions that the universe arose from be eternal? Why do you say that the universe came from nothing? -

How does God and the Devil help answer that question?

GM: [Taps just above glabella]

William: Exactly! So our thoughts on the subject are largely shaped for us, before we even get to know our selves. "This" is The Ride, and "that" is the explanation for why we are on it.


GM: It is a hard place for flesh to dwell.
Automated Machine Learning
Ah - The Mechanics
Inclinations
Engaging with insects
Practical application
Stroke of luck
10Q

William: Indeed. How does a cosmic mind interreact with ants? The first step would be to get the attention of the ants but if the ants have superimposed fearful imaginations about The Ride, this can complicate things to do with making a connection.

GM: This Speaks of…
Attachment

William: The attachments of atheist and theist positions muddy the waters for the individuals encased within the concepts said positions provide...the friction between the opposing strongholds have been the most damaging response to The Ride.

GM: Transforming the Anger Energy
Embrace a completely new paradigm
The relevant scientific community
"Ace in the hole"
Anticipation:
"Nothing More - Nothing Less"
Welcoming answer
Sensory Data Quality
"It Requires Corrective Action"
Forgiveness
Earn
The unreasonable effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences

William: From the link;
William: If one researches OOBEs and the like, one will find that practically everyone who ever experiences such, identify as being 'spirit' - a biblically supported idea, as you have pointed out - something biblical Jesus spoke of as a truth.

Those Christians who do not believe such a thing, often critique OOBEs and the like as 'demonic deception' a type of religious equivalent as the woo-slinging "delusional" which non-theists love to use to 'explain' why such experience doesn't fit with their own particular beliefs about what they self identify as being.

Being 'born of the spirit' is really about coming to the realization of what one truly is rather than remaining in ignorance of that.
GM: Astigmatism [a defect in the eye or in a lens caused by a deviation from spherical curvature, which results in distorted images, as light rays are prevented from meeting at a common focus.]
First Light
Investigative
"Is It True Is It Kind Is It Useful?"
Sola Scriptura
"Making it up as you go along"
Go
Species Collective
Permanent
The wisdom of insecurity
Sun energy
Worth
Clearness
Open Minded Sceptic
Evaluating Cautiously
"Devices of The Gods"
When The Dust Settles
Galaxies are like Islands...

6:25
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall."

Transponder: I compared this to the 'music of the spheres' belief. It raises an imaginary hypothesis of a Cosmic mind for which there is no scrap of decent evidence and substitutes for the human imagination an unheard voice of an invisible entity.

Music of the spheres.

William: Music of the spheres: "an ethereal [extremely delicate and light in a way that seems not to be of this world.] harmony thought by the Pythagoreans to be produced by the vibration of the celestial spheres."

What I find fascinating is that folk of ancient times imagined such a thing about the planets.

Can a planet make a sound? It's an interesting question that gives us insight into the nature of sound waves. In a sense, planets do emit radiation which can be used to make sounds we can hear. How does that work?

The Physics of Sound Waves
Everything in the universe gives off radiation that — if our ears or eyes were sensitive to it — we could "hear" or "see". The spectrum of light that we actually perceive is very small, compared to the very large spectrum of available light, ranging from gamma-rays to radio waves. Signals that can be converted to sound make up only one part of that spectrum. {SOURCE}


Transponder:...there is no scrap of decent evidence...

William: There are indeed many scraps of decent evidence. However, what I may refer to as 'decent evidence' may not been seen the same way by others.


Princess Sparkles: Everyone: "In space nobody can hear you scream"

Saturn: "Hold my beer"
_________________
From the link;
The Cassini spacecraft has been detecting intense radio emissions from the planet Saturn. They come from the planet's aurorae, where magnetic field lines thread the polar regions. These signals have been shifted into the range of human hearing and compressed in time. For more information about how NASA produced this track, go to...


___________________________________

William: Cosmic Mind?
An imaginary hypothesis of a Cosmic mind for which there is no scrap of decent evidence?
Such expression can only come from someone who wants to believe we do not exist within a creation.

The Earth is abundant with decent evidence supporting the notion of mindful, intelligent creation, performing its tasks through what we loosely refer to as 'evolution'.

William: "Observing people I see the Mind of the Cosmos struggling to be heard above the fray...it appears to want to be heard through that Human medium, but that medium resists hearing, except what it wants to hear for its own individual agenda, rather than recognizing the overall."

William: The above is pointing out the human dilemma of social inequity and its consequences on the natural environment.

I see no solution to said problem coming from either theist or atheist positions.
________________________________________________________________

280622
Upon Further, Deeper Inspection
Absolutely Perfectly Beautiful.
A Matter of Knowing Where to Look
All things come to those who wait


SCLx15 + select last LE per shuffle
Bridge - The Forerunner - The Devil You Say - Discipline - The Science of Spirituality - Science operates best from a Natural Neutral position - End Of Chapter - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1067891#p1067891 - Root of evil - Matrix - Densification - Alike as two peas in a pod - Secret Organizations - Odd Radio Circles - The beauty of imperfection

William: Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind?
A: Within apparent imperfection,

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

AP= Know This "Intransigence" [refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.]

William: [257]
[What Do You Like About It?
"Crying Over Spilt Milk"
The Main Points on the Agenda
What is behind the VR headset
A difficult proposition
Constructor Theory
Not by flinging woo at it.
(Barking up the wrong tree)]

7:24


GM: The characteristics of narrative consciousness:
"Here Am I Is Where I Ought Examining My Conscious Thought"
You Can Trust
Psychology
Exploring
Chamber Of Self
"One Language Intelligent Network
Heaven on Earth"
Genius
Group Dynamics
"Confirmation bias
Personal freedom
One should not take the evidence as incontrovertible for granted, as we should always apply science to any evidence and test it for repeatability."
Let The Day In
It is just one of those things.
Jung-Animus
Your Dream Team
Express yourself
"The journey is fun and maybe that is the point."
Commitment
Epigenetic [relating to or arising from] Memories
"Be kind to yourself"
Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that
Potential
“Humility means accepting reality with no attempt to outsmart it.”
The Grey Area is Vast
The Healing Power

William: From the link;
JK: I'm not one to begrudge how others wish to define stuff, but I see no intelligence in a flower seeking sunlight.
William: I see that and understand it as the type of argument one can expect from those in the position of Atheism.

GM: The beauty of imperfection

William: Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind?
A: Within apparent imperfection,

GM: Know This
Sacral chakra [thought to govern how you experience sexuality, creative expression, emotions, and more]
"A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind"


William: From the link;
Myriad: It accomplishes nothing, and has no possible purpose. (Kind of like a similar problem with a hypothetical creator god who is omniscient, and therefore cannot learn anything or experience anything new, and thus has no reason to actually create anything.

William:Exactly - except that being omniscient would be the very reason WHY the creation of the PU was engineered - as a means to escape the omniscient condition.

And observing said PU, we can understand that it would be a great thing for that exact purpose.

A physical manifestation of a mental projection...the same would apply to the "many eternal universe theory" which J. Richard Gott explains...only with variety...and timelessness [since these are eternal - go on forever even that they all have beginnings...which would be a better way to do it if one would never have to suffer from omniscience again...always having something new to learn...

GM:
"The Great White Brotherhood"
Attention!
(A belly full of laughs.)
"Guilt Trip"
Raphael ~ [healing of the Lord]
Incarnation


William:From the link;
McCulloch: If you define atheism as not having a belief that there is a God, then agnosticism is a subset of atheism.
If you define atheism as having a belief that there is not a God, then agnosticism opposes that.

William: It is interesting how Atheists define things, and it should not be surprising to look for and to find evidence of conformation bias within those definitions.

Such definitions in themselves are, at worst, products of opinion rather than of science. As such, they most likely require honest examination and tweaking.

GM: Use Heart When Doing The Science
Shadow:
"The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind."
(Listen
Betterment
Aligning With WingMakers)
Christian mythology re God:
"Welcoming
Action Station
Money"
"Forgiveness
Believe"
"Conducive to wellbeing
Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution
Spiritual practice"
The Sign On The Door Clearly States The Rules
(The Wholeness Navigator
Earth Mother)
(The vortex
Creative Conscious Intelligence)
"Waking
Understand few reach self awareness"
"Who Knows
Loved?"
(Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.}
Emotions)
"This Is My Kind Of Fun"
(Virtual
It is neither good nor evil)
If You Must Believe - Believe This:
Green Chemistry [12 Principles of Green Chemistry]
"Jesus became the manner in which the misconception could be addressed. No one follower need have understood it in that manner, in order for it to do its job.
If we Judge, we will be Judged."

William: From the link;
Rose: Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?

William: There would be a number of reasons. For me it was motivated by the knowledge that I was getting shallow and often dubious communication with the living, even in relation to opinions about the dead.
I decided that I would give 'the dead' an opportunity to show they had more to offer.

GM: Event String Unfolding:
(Timelessness vs infinite regress argument)
Prometheus
Determined
Incompleteness


William: Said another way; - "YHWH made it imperfect."

GM: The Gist of The Message
"Human Imagination Has Consequences"

William: Three Three Seven
[Try to remember
You Can Trust
On The Right Track
Soul Retrieval
Playing As Children
Sleep Paralysis
Turning Point
Mind Body Spirit
Written Language.]

GM: Gentle
Common Ground
"Let It Be And So Be It
Educational
Awake and Waiting"
The Space Rock which caused an extinction event on Earth
Be My Friend
giphy.gif

"Some things are impossible to pin down precisely because of the nature of the reality being experienced"
Holy Matrimony!
And
A belly full of laughs!

William: [with serious tone] Often the addition of the fact of humor is missing from equations...

GM: Event String Unfolding:
The Spirit of The Earth
"Militant Messiah
Earth Mother"
What degree of influence do they have on that Mind-Field?
(We succeed as a permanent specie or we fail as a temporary one
Conscience
Communication With The Deeper Levels of Self
Falls
That Is Sad But Don't Let It Distract You)
End Of Chapter
Hidden Gem
Delineating [describe or portray (something) precisely.]
Transposing [cause (two or more things) to exchange places. transfer to a different place or context.]
Grace
Elude [1 escape from or avoid (a danger, enemy, or pursuer), typically in a skilful or cunning way. 2 (of an achievement or something desired) fail to be attained by (someone).]
"I am all ears to any rewording for clarification"
Intransigence [refusal to change one's views or to agree about something.]
The Development of...
"Worthiness"
(Invention is using things discovered.)
Panpsychism
Interoperate [is the setup of ad hoc components and methods to make two or more systems work together as a combined system with some partial functionality during a certain time, possibly requiring human supervision to perform necessary adjustments and corrections]
"Lots More
The Story Continues - The Flow Is On"
Desperation;
"Now isn't the time for tears"
Green Chemistry
A Game Of Chess
...
"Plastic tanks and battleships nothing more than toys What harm could propaganda do to the minds of little boys But Johnny he grew up too fast to live his life long dream The first time was his last to hear a dying soldier scream"
Intelligence;
"Communication with the Deeper Levels of Self
Encounter
Down Your Way
From The Source
Path
For anyone to say otherwise, would be unwise in the face of such evidence"
Fail


William: From the link;
William: One simply has to love oneself and ones neighbor... where is that written, other than within one's heart.
one with him: But Scripture says that we must love Jehovah our God first of all, and then our neighbor.
William: That's what I was saying, when I wrote;
"How can one love others if one does not love oneself? How can one love oneself if one does not love one's God?"
However, I do not have one name for my God. I have many names [including YHVH] for The Cosmic Mind of Creation.

GM: Open Your Heart
Waking
"Asleep or awake for the give or the take Its a good ship that sails these cosmos"

William: Yes - I am still working on the finer details - I want my mind and heart to align re the question of YHWH...

GM: Now that nut is cracked, what next?
You Love I Know
Pure soul
Ectogenesis [(chiefly in science fiction) the development of embryos in artificial conditions outside the uterus.]
"Memorandum of Understanding"

William: YHWH appears to be like unto a space-faring scientist who uses The Earth as a laboratory...did he have permission to do so, from The Earth Entity?


William: From the link;

Creation in Aquinas: ex nihilo or ex deo ?
Daniel: While the Christian emphasis on creation as a free and gracious gift is often juxtaposed with Neoplatonic notions of world-production as the emanation of being from the First Cause, I argue in this essay that there is no obvious contradiction between the doctrines of creation ex nihilo and emanation ex deo in Aquinas's thought. This is partly because the Christian teaching that the world is created ‘from nothing’ was never intended to deny that it was from God, but to deny that it was made from anything other than God. By drawing on the Liber de Causis to support his explanation of creation as the emanation of all being from the universal cause, Aquinas provides us with a way to foreground a doctrine which belongs to the foundations of Christian faith but which rarely receives sufficient attention in systematic theology – namely, the omnipresence of the God who is in everything.

GM: The Flying Spaghetti Monster:
"A Good Question...
...Exploit Weakness?"
(Knowledge Required to Resolve Uncertainty)
The Mainstream Program

William: From the link;
1213: I think spirit is like attitude and also awareness.

Difflugia: To the extent that these are things, they're emergent properties of a mind.

William: If attitude and personality are 'things' - then 'things' are not always physical.

Difflugia: You might as well describe spirit as "ability to spell" or "dessert preference." All of the minds that we know exist within a physical medium or matrix.

William: The belief re that is generally that the mind exists within the brain.

Difflugia: What's God's mind made out of?

William: I think you mean brain? What's God's brain made of?

Difflugia: That would apply to anything non-static, hence the OP question. If God is static, then there's nothing to distinguish God's state at the beginning of the universe from any other point in time. If God is not static, God suffers from the same problem that you claim for the universe.

William: I think that if we went fishing we might find that there are varied interpretations as to what is meant by "God is the always the same".

Immutability = not capable of or susceptible to change.

That would rule out omnipotence - unless being omniscient means that a creator-God could give Itself the illusion of not being that Immutable Entity by constructing some type of reality experience in which It could hide from the true unchangeable nature of Itself...

A universe such as this one, could conceivably provide that.

GM: "Constructing some type of reality experience in which I could hide from the true unchangeable nature of Myself" = "Even so, I have full appreciation for your efforts, because even incorrect peer review is better than indifference."
Feel your feelings
Yes - I Hear You
"Free Choice Ends Here
The Fine-Tuning argument"
Muon
Weak
Perspective
Husband
Laws Rules and Appropriates
What Is That You Are Playing With?
"Conduit"
The Roles
The fiction of causality
To Experience All That Is
How shallow is the reach of YHWH?
giphy.gif


8:23
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: "Spirit" et al is a religious name for Energy.

Furthermore, by assigning the Energy as being conscious, one makes a GOD of it.

Further to that even, when one assigns an image to the GOD, one attempts to make a costume for energy to prance about it.


From the link;
William: Time is the effect Energy has upon the QF. Both QF and Energy are eternal, whereas time is not, re the interaction. It only lasts for as long as Energy is interacting with QT.

Bust Nak: Ah huh. So when would that stop?

William: That depends upon what relation consciousness/mind has with it.

It is the observer not the observed, which measures the movements of objects and pronounces 'time' as a conceptual thing [of the mind] rather than a real thing [of the physical]. Sometimes folk just conflate non physical things with physical things, which is why you are arguing that time is a physically real thing. Rather, time is a conceptionally real thing.

As such, as long as there is consciousness to observe the effects of the eternal energy upon the eternal physical QF, the process won't stop.
Remove consciousness from the dynamic, and the process of Energy/QF interaction will continue to go on as it has always gone on - eternally.

The only thing which would have 'stopped' is the thing which acknowledges the existence of the Energy and the QF. If that were to happen, then 'time' would cease to be, because time is a concept of mind [consciousness] and neither the QF or the Energy would have any practical use for how their interactions are being understood. They simply are being what they have always been.

[Since we do not know, we needn't assume that consciousness has not always existed as part of that process. It is an interesting notion.]
_________________________________

290622
Understanding the correlations
The journey is the destination
Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em



SCLx8 + select last LE per shuffle
Wakey Wakey - Friable [easily crumbled.] - Is Like... - Perseverance - Glow Softly - The Vortex - Independence - Six Degrees of Freedom

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

AP= Self-development Mind’s Eye

William: Two Six Seven
"The Need Determines the Value
It’s both a break-in and a break-out.
The Best way to access God is...
Intertextual References
Is OOBE like 'coming up for air'
Conscious Eats Experience
Available to all who seek this...
Self-development Mind’s Eye"

6:50

GM: In The Flow
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
[One should not take the evidence as incontrovertible for granted, as we should always apply science to any evidence and test it for repeatability.]


William: From the link;
GM: Stop. Listen. Observe. Wonder.
Self-development
Use Your Freedom
Let It Be And So Be It
viewtopic.php?p=1070605#p1070605

William: The link is a post where I remark on the importance of use of imagination critically...from the post;
William: What IS a great analogy of the universe mindfully unfolding is The Planet Earth - A living stone of complexity ... as one cannot explain away the complexity of biological life forms as the result of mindless acts of nature in which the complex movement of said life forms is due to "flat slippery surfaces and strong winds."

GM: Hyper Complex
Permanent
Each To Their Own
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Read/Book/Story
Draw With The Silence

GM: "Choices
Pointless
In The Rabbit Hole"
F3

William: Frank Kepple quotes re F3;
You can use this as a jumping off point into F3 if you like: all you need to do is will yourself to step into the scene and there you go.
This means that it takes a bit of effort to temporarily shift our focus of awareness to other focuses, like F2 or F3 (or F4 if you are really ambitious!). After physical death our Primary Focus will switch to F3 that that will be our 'home focus' while we go through the transition phase which will eventually allow us to make the permanent switch to F4.
This causes problems for those who are in a poor state of mind. The lower levels of F3 are awash with people who are stuck in their own self created hell-holes due to an ever increasing spiral of negative energy.
To put it another way, in F3 if you will a can of beer to appear in your hand then it is possible (with a bit of practise) to make this happen.
While people permanently engaged in F3 can adopt whatever form they wish, most people appear to automatically adopt the form of their previous physical existence, but as it was at their physical peak, i.e. 25 to 30 years old. This is somewhat of a generalisation but it tends to be most common.
You see, F1, F2, F3 and F4 don't sit one on top of another in a nice, organised, linear manner. The reality is that they all intertwine together, much like several strands of string bound together to form rope.
Ghostly manifestations may also be a result of overlays, perhaps F1/F3 overlays, allowing the witness and the 'ghost' (i.e. someone residing in F3) to perceive each other.
People in F3 engage in a whole range of actions, communicate with you directly in meaningful dialogue and act in ways that you could not predict, just as they do in F1/physical. This will become obvious to you once you gain a bit of experience of F2 and F3 environments.
But these days the more forward-thinking practitioners realise this infamous Void of old is just an area of 3D Blackness situated between Focus 2 and Focus 3 of consciousness. To followers of the Monroe School, The Void is simply the 3D-Blackness at Focus 21. Simple as that. No superstitious nonsense getting in the way. Just place your Intent and away you go.
So when you “take off” into the 3D Blackness, you generally emerge within Focus 3 of consciousness, or what is becoming commonly known as the Transition Area, where you will come into contact with other people who are very real indeed, not just F2 'dream characters'. It is to F3 that we will turn our attention to next.
F3 is also known as the Transition Area, as it is where we all go in order to begin the process of adjusting back to subjective reality once again and to prepare for our eventual Primary Focus switch back to F4. This is the ultimate purpose of Focus 3.

GM:Coherence
Move On
“The connect was not only into learning to form a better understanding and acceptance about my 'self' - but in how you showed yourself to being an integral part of that understanding and acceptance.”
One's thoughts
Meditation
Economic
Near
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent "
Masks
Six Degrees of Freedom
Self-development
Healing The Beast
Letting Go
Disclosure of Knowledge
"The Secret
Suppressing
The Nervous System"
“Our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful part of us.”
[You Are Soooo Funny]
"The Meaning of Life
[Blunt the edge off that particular blade...]
The Deeper Reality"
Imagination
"The idea is to connect with the Planet Mind in a conscious manner rather than an unconscious one or even a subconscious manner..."

William: From the link;
Mar 3, 2022 Perhaps our entire universe is like a gigantic computer game, the creation of super-smart hackers existing somewhere else? Before you smirk and laugh, watch and think! Featuring interviews with David Brin, Nick Bostrom, Raymond Kurzweil, Marvin Minsky, and Martin Rees.

GM: "The foundation of adult trust is not "You will never hurt me." It is "I trust myself with whatever you do."
A Loving Heart
Be Aware

William: From the link;
William: In real terms, the Master ColdFire trick is about throwing a scary story into the mix in order to show a presumed outcome...however, the outcome was surprising in that the presumed outcome didn't happen and so the storyline changed and adaption was necessary.

"Master ColdFire trick" was inserted as a line entry on my ComList around the time it came about - Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:40 am -over 2 years ago...

Diagoras: When you get a 'surprising result' in science, it's perfectly acceptable to explain it away by saying 'adaption was necessary'.

William:The 'surprising result' was in Callum's response to an attempted illusion [the trick referred to] and the "adaption was necessary" is in regard to following the story-line alongside adaptation.

You would know of this, of course, if you 'did the science' but instead you attempt to "explain it away" as "reading the bones"

Follow the links and see the connections Diagoras - don't just jump in and expect that non-theist mud-slinging is going to work for sceptics in this case.

GM: "A terrible milestone
Executing"
[I say this in terms of the generical idea of God rather than any particular religious idea of God.]
Comparison;
"I Have My Duty
Virtual Reality
Awake
Confident
Real"

William: From the link;
myth-one: John 4:24 wrote:
God is a Spirit: . . ..
And when we are born of the Spirit, we become spirits, because:
John 3:6 wrote:
. . . that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
So when believers are born again of the Spirit, we will become spiritual bodied angels.

William: From my own understanding [self awareness] what occurred was that humans forgot what they were [Spirit-breathed into biological matter] and identified only with the flesh-container and thought of themselves in that way - much like non-theists think of themselves as 'nothing more than chemical reactions of the brain'...or how some Christians think 'flesh that will be resurrected and given the ability to never die.'

GM:Always
Entity encased in a Planet
"White Light
Validation
Nuremberg race laws"
Shine Your Light
Consciousness incarnates into human form
The Things You Do...
"Consensual"
Be real
Vision
Pride
Persevere
Matthew Twenty Two – Forty
Inculcated [instil/teach (an idea, attitude, or habit) by persistent instruction.]
Everything Is Unique
"Black Holes
All Information Is Channelled."
"Identify any ‘atheist’ in the story? Certainly not The Devil!"
Secure
Spiritual Food
[Get out of the way]
How to get this to happen on a planetary scale is the thing...
[Evidence We Actively Collect
Separation]
"Positive self-talk
Archangel
Konkachila
Influence
Accidentally on purpose"
While We All Wait....
Steps
The Connection Process
The Wider Reality
Illuminate"
Strength of Soul
"Moldavite" [vitreous silica projectile glass formed by a meteorite impact]
What Is The Point? Sadness?
Mind’s Eye
Religious theists may well be the ones who have placed interposing barriers which ensure that their view is cut off - and this might be achieved through wilful ignorance.
Stuff
– “spacetime doesn’t really exist” [15:00]
The Nature of That Place
Radical Self-Acceptance
“The Atheist Infiltration Squad
Look Closely”
Indeed
We Exist Infinitely
[Friendship is an agreement between individuals to support one another in any way they can, for mutually beneficial results.]

7:30
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

JK: The best we can do is observe the universe. If there's a cause for it, we can reasonably ask from where comes that cause.

William: We can ask all we want, but this does not mean we will ever know the answer.

What we do know, is that the universe had a beginning and that something cannot come from nothing.

So we know that the universe came from something, even that we do not and may never know the fundamental nature of that something.

Post #666

________
300622
Is There Really Such a Thing as Random?
What constitutes a measurement?


SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re
The Gist of The Message - Fair Dinkum - EQ - Some things are impossible to pin down precisely because of the nature of the reality being experienced - Eat - “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail” We go through together - Level - Acknowledge The Agreeable - "We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there."

AP= The Finer Details Hacking through the subconsciousness

William: "An addict needs shame like a man dying of thirst needs salt water."

6:39

GM: [The Next World
"Together"
Welcoming answer]
"Is it not the quality of the message that counts, rather than the name of the entity the message comes from?"
[Sophia The Mother]

William: Sophia is the symbolic representation of consciousness involved with the Quantum Field even to the extent where shapeform is brought into being by said consciousness.

GM: Assuming a Creator of this world exists, in what way is said Creator hidden from us?

William: If we ourselves are consciousness, then how can the "Sophia" consciousness really be hidden from us?
We can gather volumes of 'hints' from the shapeform which at least can provide an indication as to the nature of said consciousness.

GM: Odd
Evidence We Actively Collect
Produce
Contumacious [stubbornly or wilfully disobedient to authority.]
Unhappy
”‘Hey presto!’ Stuff just gets worse!”

William: Yes - until we can collectively get a grasp on the nature of nature, and work with nature rather than attempting to subdue and control nature, our species will continue to be unhappy and follow through within the ripple effect of that unhappiness, which includes stuff getting worse...

GM: Is there any such thing as 'Objective Morality'
Epitomized [be a perfect example of. give a summary of]
"We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there."

William: It could mean that even subjective morality wasn't there either.

GM: The Finer Details:
"Universal Mind
Active Imagination (see technique)
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" - Aye...A name I call myself. :)"

William: At one time you jumped at your own shadow...I get it. But you moved on once you understood...and appreciated the humour of scaring yourself...

GM: Evolutionary Game Theory
Father Wound?
"Write a Book"
Clown Boat
Strength of Mind

William: Learning how seeing the funny side can help with one's understanding...

GM: Machiavellian [- cunning, scheming, and unscrupulous, especially in politics.]
Moldavite:
"You may be Psychic, not mentally ill."
Adversary

William: Why risk the adverse in the medium - in this case, crystals - to 'tell you' you are connecting with an actual real and existing consciousness, if that consciousness can tell you itself. without such medium?

GM: "I AM WE ARE"
Power of Silence

William: It gets one thinking. "Why be afraid if everything is an aspect of everything 'else'?

GM: Six Degrees of Freedom
"If In Doubt Let It Sit"
Discover
"Expression of Astonishment
The characteristics of narrative consciousness
Lift Your Gaze From The Fire
There is nothing wrong with 'disorder' other than one interpreting the universe as disorderly."
[Green Chemistry
What I also know is that numbers don't lie.
Might even cause Dad to crack a smile...who knows! :)]
Earth Entity:
"The wisdom of insecurity
Authenticity
Miracle
et merda
Blood Sacrifice
The Metaphysical Universe"
Brave:
[“The connect was not only into learning to form a better understanding and acceptance about my 'self' - but in how you showed yourself to being an integral part of that understanding and acceptance.”
Conscious
Human beings can do it the hard way or the easy way, but either way, the job will get done.
Phenomenon]
"Hugs and Kisses
Near Death Experience"

William: Yes - the experience gives [or at least offers] one a slight 'leg up' as it were...a feeling of confidence and acceptance...that there if far more than meets the eye/sensors....

GM:
Archangel Metatron

William: According to mysticism, Enoch became Metatron, and was considered to be 'The Little yhwh" ... a mystery wrapped in an enigma...

GM: Soul Carrier Memories
"Acknowledge Emotion But Do Not Be Controlled By It"
Questions as such a Son might be permitted to ask and be graced with answers

William: I think that the heavenly levels are products of the Sophia-consciousness Jungian Archetypes...the veil over the face of YHWH on the throne, representing/indicating "not being sure about the imagery...but it will suffice in the interim..."

GM: Innocent Sovereign
A Bit of Cat and Mouse
Mendacious [not telling the truth; lying.]
"The Four Human Power Houses
Mirroring
It has yet to be demonstrated that nature is NOT the expression of a god."

William: I was wondering the other day if there are times when lies serve a good purpose - one in which brings about truth...

GM: Oneness
Numbing
Stuck
Burgeoning [beginning to grow or increase rapidly; flourishing.]
Strength
The Desire
Unknown/Hidden/Occult
Opening ourselves to real love and intimacy

William: Which has been elusive re human reflections of a cold mindless universe which lacks any evidence of morality or love...

GM: Test the waters
Karma
GOD
Exhibit

7:20
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Transponder: It only seems to me that appealing to an intelligent creator that either popped out of nowhere or always existed looks far more improbable than a nothing that can become the something that surely an intelligent creator would need to be made out of..

William: Conflating things which have always existed with things which have not, isn't logical and explains why it 'seems to you' the way that it does.

If everything has always existed and therefore could not have been created, then consciousness also never had a beginning.

Anyone declaring that the universe has always existed 'except for consciousness' has the lights on dim.

Transponder: No :) You are overlooking 'emergence' which is the bottom line of evolution.

William: You are forgetting that your complaint is about a Cosmic Mind existing and consequently responsible for shaping form [re objects in the universe] and evolution [re consciousness on this planet].
If you want to include the theory of emergence as the reason for human consciousness, then there is no practical reason to exclude the theory of emergence for Cosmic Consciousness.
_________________________________________________________________________

300622
Is There Really Such a Thing as Random?
What constitutes a measurement?

SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re
The Gist of The Message - Fair Dinkum - EQ - Some things are impossible to pin down precisely because of the nature of the reality being experienced - Eat - “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail” We go through together - Level - Acknowledge The Agreeable - "We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there."

AP= The Finer Details Hacking through the subconsciousness

[Part II]

10:40

GM: Panentheism:
"Proceed with causation, cautiously..."

William: From the link;
Diogenes: All I can do is to put myself in the position of a god as defined by the Abrahamic religions.

William: This is a mistake often made by non-theists, getting them to focus upon one idea of GOD as if that is the only one available. It becomes a favorite target - acting in much the same way as a strawman argument is designed to act as - a distraction. Straw-battling.

GM: Truthful
"Ask and It Will Be Given"
"Keep an Eye On
Good Here There Evil"
Putting My Finger On It...
"Ouroboros [a circular symbol depicting a snake, or less commonly a dragon, swallowing its tail, as an emblem of wholeness or infinity.]
The naked truth"
"Intelligence With Wisdom
Ordinary"
It is not a thing to judge, but a thing to accept without judgement
Preternatural [beyond what is normal or natural.]
Behavioural adjustments
"Death
Like Every Seed That Followed"
"To Know
Everything Is Unique"
"The Generated Messages
Core emotion"
"Personal boundaries
[Raises Glass To A Toast]
Fierce
Psychology"
Confirmation bias:
"Post it"
William: From the link;
Rose: Communication with the dead.
Why would anyone wish to do that?
Is it through grief with attendant emotions? In which case it is understandable but irrational.

William: The use of Talking Boards gained popularity in the US, shortly after the Civil War because of the great social grief experienced at fathers and sons/husbands and siblings lost in the fighting...people wanted to know that their loved-ones were alright and talking boards seemed to provide some closure and healing in that regard.

The name Ouija is a combination of the French “oui” and German “ja,” both meaning “yes.” It was patented in 1892 but primitive models date back to ancient times. Talking boards, also known as spirit boards, gained popularity in the United States during the late 1860s as mournful users attempted to communicate with the Civil War dead.{SOURCE}

GM: Pure soul
Seduce
Ride Water
Runestone Symbol

William: Gebo ᚷ

Lisa: Gebo is the rune that helps us find balance in giving and receiving. It shows equal parts acceptance, trust and care. There are no reversals for this rune but depending on other runes present, it can highlight inequality and situation where one person is a giver and another a taker. Spiritually, it is a rune of trusting that all our needs are met.
In relationship readings, Gebo is a welcome rune as it usually indicates reciprocity and joy in coming together.

The shape of this rune is harmonious and shows both lines leaning in on each other equally, signifying healthy inter-dependence and an even flow of give and take.

The X-shape is also an ‘X marks the spot’ and in this case, we are talking about the sweet spot where everybody is happy with how things are because everybody is having their needs met.

Gebo Prayer:
Dear Mother-Father God, Thank you that it is perfectly alright to trust that all is well here and now. Please help me attract even more harmonious relationships and circumstances into my life. Thank you that the divine exchange taking place in the Cosmos is reflected in my own being in harmonious ways. Amen and so it is! {SOURCE}

GM: Get To Know It
Moon energy
What's The Problem?
Panspermia
Secret
Neurotransmitters

William: From the link;
William: Time began and continues as a concept of the mind, re what is being observed through the nervous system [brain]. Time did not have a physical beginning, because it is not a physical thing. Time is a mental construct based upon sensory input.

Bust Nak: That's only our concept of time, what about time itself?

William: Show us this physical time so that we can answer your question.

Sometimes folk just conflate non physical things with physical things, which is why you are arguing that time is a physically real thing. Rather, time is a conceptionally real thing.

Bust Nak: Are you sure you are not the one conflating non physical concept of time with physical time?

William: Yes. It is there in my statements. Time is not a physically real thing. Time is a conceptionally real thing. No conflation there.
I am arguing that time is a conceptual thing, because I have been shown no evidence to the contrary. If you can show me evidence that time is a physical thing, I will be more than happy to drop the notion that time is a conceptual thing.

Bust Nak: Alternatively time has nothing to do with consciousness, and hence the presence of lack there of, has zero bearing on the process of Energy/QF interaction which will continue to go on as it has always gone on - eternally, in other words, time would tick on forever.

William: If consciousness is not there to conceptionally observe time 'tick on forever' how would anyone know? At what point would either Energy or the QF require such knowledge? The belief that 'time will tick on forever' derives from human concepts which are purely of the mind and do not exist as objects in the physical.

Far as I can ascertain, energy is like a Ghost as in we cannot see it. Unlike a ghost, we know it exists due to its invisible quality creating an effect [QF Ripple] and causing the reality [physical universe] to appear.

Energy is obviously an object of some kind as it is able to effect the QF, and so it must have some type of physical property in order to do that.

Bust Nak: Then why on Earth did you suggest that all objects would eventually disappear?

William: I made it clear enough that the objects being referred to were shapeform [Galaxies] brought into physical reality by the Energy interacting with an area of the QF.
I never suggested that Energy of the QF would cease to exist. I suggested that the shapeforms in this area would cease to exist IF the QF were a vast sphere and Energy was temporarily interacting with said area as it moved in relation with the QF.

Bust Nak: Energy could well be an object because it behaves as we observe objects behaving.

William: However, even if we could zoom out to a perspective where we could view the process from outside of the process, we may still only see the effect of Energy upon the QF, and no visible object at all - we might see the wake, but not the ship making the wake.

Bust Nak: Which of these perspective do you prefer?

William: I am not so sure that it matters. I like the mystery of a formless thing creating form-things and wonder if knowing what the Ship creating the Wake 'looks' like, would make the slightest bit of difference re the Wake [reality caused].

Bust Nak: It matters because you asked me a question and the answer depends on which perspective you are talking about.

William: Why should the perspective I am talking about matter in relation to the perspective you are answering from?
You are the one stating that time is physical. If it is, you should be able to point to it and say "that's what I'm talking about!"

GM: Life Principles of Sovereign Integral
ET and the notion of GODs
Within
Spiritual Connection
Functional Clusters
Hacking through the subconsciousness
Expression of Appreciation of Experience
A type of 'leg-up' but no more or less than that
Muon
Oneness of Wholeness
"Abiogenesis
Union With Divinity"

11:17
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Kylie: Putting food into the mouth is not the process which sustains life.

If you put food into your mouth and then nothing else, you will die just as quickly as someone who doesn't have any food at all.

onewithhim: Yes, that is why the food cannot be the source of life....it just keeps life going after the spirit or breath of life has been infused into that person. That is the argument YOU made.....that food is the source of the person being alive. So, no, the food KEEPS the person alive. You seem confused. Do you see my point?

William: The OP asks us if animals are just lumps of matter or is there something more to them? Is it only people that are not lumps of matter?

"Energy" has been injected into the discussion. How does Energy make things 'more than just lumps of matter'?
______________

Transponder: The conundrum is, how can matter be eternal? I get that problem. But if it isn't eternal, how does matter come to be? The half answer has to be that Nothingness does not need to be created; it can be Eternal, but a nothingness that has the capacity to imitate being something (which is what matter is) may be the start of an answer with less to get over than a complex cosmic mind without an origin to explain.

Goat: There is a law in this universe that says 'energy can neither be created or destroyed', and 'matter and energy are interchangeable. ' Matter is just a form of energy. .. and there never was a time there was no energy.

William: "a nothingness that has the capacity to imitate being something" infers that something exists in which the 'nothingness' can "imitate" and also infers that the 'nothingness' is mindful - has the faculty to discern...

If matter and energy are forms of each other, their functions are different enough to produce consciousness.

Or, it might be that matter/energy [mattergy?] is also conscious and consciousness did not emerge from it, but is a fundamental property of it.
___________________________________________________

010722
Essentially, we are Gaia in human form...
Hacking through the subconscious
"Off you go to your quarters"
Precise definitions of strategies

SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle
Identify Common Denominators - An individuals consciousness is more than what they are consciously aware of. - The God - Islands - Interesting Data - I Will - Please - I Think We Can Safely Say - Welcome all experience - Appreciating

AP= To Be Sure That is the truth.

[Intelligent Consciousness
Working With What Is Available
A degenerative force to existence
Corresponding equivalents
Speak your thoughts aloud
To Be Sure That is the truth.]

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

7:41

GM: Recovery
Brilliant
zn+1 = zn2 + c [Mandelbrot set]
"Conformal Cyclic Cosmology"

William: Another way of saying 'forever' or 'infinity'.
CCC is an hypothesis which requires that all massive particles eventually vanish from existence, including those which become too widely separated from all other particles to annihilate with them.
How can something simply 'vanish from existence' without evoking magic? It is the other end of the hypothesis that 'something came from nothing'.
GM: In The Team Of The Collective
The Bridge of Condemnation
We oppose deception
r = aeθ cot b [ The formula for a logarithmic spiral]

William: If "In The Team Of The Collective" represent Jung's Archetypes of Consciousness [situated primarily in the subconscious regions] plus "The Bridge of Condemnation" representing the direction towards The Realm of Judgementalism, then "We" represents "The Team Of The Collective" who "oppose deception"... is a spiral a form of deception? Or is the formula an indication that there is more than meets the eye and we have to include that unseen stuff, in order to learn how to resist being deceived?

GM: The Mother and The Father
Within
What Do You Like About It?

William: It is familiar to me because of the nature of the environment in which I am currently experiencing [as the dominant reality].
A Father and Mother are the equivalent of heterosexual thinking processes but can be seen as 'one' rather that as 'two' - and nature even provides us with a physical example of this, re the Hermaphrodite.
Ideally a Parental Guide is someone who teaches one the truth, rather than made up stories having little to no thing to do with the truth.
The truth - in context - is to do with the dominant reality being experienced.
"In The Team Of The Collective" representing Jung's Archetypes of Consciousness situated primarily in the subconscious regions would be expected to convey truth to me, rather than deception, in order for me to 'like' it enough for me to give it my ear.

Opposing deception is ultimately more eye-opening than not. However, I do appreciate that mythology - while a device of story-telling and thus employing fictional data, and thus a form of deception - if used correctly [with the intent to bring the personality into truth] has its uses...

GM: Appreciating
To Be Sure
"Virtues
Contemplative"
"Observed
Redefinition of the Human Being"

William: When the virtue of wanting truth rather than settling for deception, is active - this reveals other virtues and these help one in their contemplations of data...which in turn allows for one to re-identify, by abandoning concepts we might have been taught about the nature of who we are, which are deceptive.

GM: Nonetheless.
"Love Your Life
We help each other"
The Smokescreen called "scientifically unrespectable"

William: "The Rule of Fire" I found the commentary interesting when I watched this vid, and that is why I placed the link into the ComList.
We have to make up the rules of the dominant reality experience based upon our interpretation of the nature of nature. For the most part, this has already been done by our predecessor 'parental guides' represented by the four human power-houses Culture, Religion, Politics and Science.
The question remains as to whether they were/are teaching actual truth or deceptive fiction in their telling of it to us.

[The truth is, these parental social institutions cannot even say for sure that this reality experience we are collectively having, is itself, not a simulation.]

Important to that, it is still something of a Game, regardless of whether it is or isn't a simulation and that is why rules on how to play the Game have to be discovered within the actual Game itself.

Are these rules being discovered or merely made up to suit the agenda of the power-houses?

If we are actually within a simulation, how do we know that the rules we are following are the rules of the simulation?
If we are actually NOT in a simulation, can rules BE discovered, or are we free to make them up any way we so choose, through the device of the power-houses which enable us to do this?

Since it can be said that concepts of the mind [in relation to the external reality the mind is within] can and do coincide with one another. Therefore, it is acceptable to think that the concepts were discovered rather than invented. The invention has to do with developing devices which assist us with the discovery process.

That said, if these conceptual things which are discovered within the fabric of the reality experience itself, things like Mathematics, Morality, Measured Motion [time] and Many More - this lends itself to being evidence of the Mindfulness involved re the things we cannot actually physically see, but are there to be discovered nonetheless. = 1159
[The differentiation was still apparent in the Hebrew mind - but not to the point where Satan and God became separate entities.= 1159]

GM: "Some information has to be drummed into that which perceives
Imperishable"
Well Its A Start...
...Until...
Perspective
"The stories we tell and what we do with them"
"A knight in shining armour [an idealized or chivalrous man who comes to the rescue of a woman in a difficult situation.]
Positive Social Connections"

William: Well certainly "It's a start" Up until the knight insists of killing the dragon. Another option would be to try and tame it.
Does the woman's "difficult situation" affect the knight?
Does the woman's "difficult situation" demand the dragon be slayed, rather than tamed?

GM: "The Mind is The Invisible Garage Dragon [re Carl Sagan]
Joy!"
Earth

William: Earth being the 'dragon' of the story...at least the one in the garage. ;)

GM: Remnant [a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.] Seed
"The Fine Art of Not Being Offended"

William: So..part of the process of taming the beast, requires some shedding...

GM: Creatio Ex Nihilo [(Latin for "creation out of nothing") is the doctrine that matter is not eternal but had to be created by some divine creative act.]
Genius
You Are Nobodies Victim Ever.

William: Yes - being offended by something which may well be deception, makes one a victim of the "offensive". The smart thing to do is to be logical in regard to the data of nature. [DoN]
Atheists support the doctrine of "Something from nothing" as do a lot of Theist Christians. Yet their opposition to one another contradicts itself as one side is saying that Creatio Ex Nihilo proves that a creator mind is unnecessary while they other side claims that Creatio Ex Nihilo proves a creator mind is necessary.
The truth is, Creatio Ex Nihilo as a concept [which is what it is] doesn't inform us either way but shares the same unnecessary magical quality.
As such, the concept is more likely a deception than a truth.

GM: "Make It Up AS You Go Along
Adjustment"
"Endemic [regularly found among particular people or in a certain area.]
Self-compassion
"Yes We Can""

William: Just because we can and mostly have to make things up as we go along, does not give us permission to be deceptive about it...there are rules to the Game, and that has to be one of the rules.

GM: Regarding:

William: From the link;
William: Being 'born of the spirit' is really about coming to the realization of what one truly is rather than remaining in ignorance of that.

GM: "Purring"

William: Yes - an expression of the feeling of contentment

GM: "The Mind is The Invisible Garage Dragon"
"Aleph
Small
Something Mystical To Be In Awe Of"
Military:
"Put the Teachings Into Practice"
"There are many levels of consciousness
That is the truth."
Anunnaki
"Higher Self Dream Guide"
"Getting unstuck
Add
Hacking through the subconscious"
"The Attitude
Illuminate
Masonry and Metallurgy"
"To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness"
[Even that it took an actual mind operating with language, to make such a statement.] ;)
The Original People:
"All Information Is Channelled"

8:50
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

040722
A Mathematical Theory of Communication

From the link;
Claude Shannon’s mathematical theory of
communication concerns quantitative limits of
mediated communication. The theory has a history
in cryptography and of measuring telephone traffic.
Paralleling work by U.S. cybernetician Norbert
Wiener and Soviet logician Andrei N. Kolmogorov,
the theory was first published after declassification
in 1948.

SCLx18 + select last LE per shuffle
Expression of Astonishment - Communication is key - SA Brownshirts - Word2Number Calculator - Copy -
- Rejuvenate - Panpsychism - The Main Points On The Agenda - Having To Learn a Whole Other Language - It is a slippery path of snake-oil. - Illusion - The Human Brain - Living their forefather's conflict - Radical Self-Acceptance - Evaluate. - Text2Num.

AP= Self-confidence When One is Feeling Tired


RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

9:31

GM: "In Cell 32 I Found Love In You
Loving"
"You Are Provided For
All The Theories Regarding "The Gods"
Dreamed Up By Yours Truly"
Learning To Fly:
"Hey! look at that! It's uncanny..."
For The Purpose Of...
"The Sensation of God's Presence Inside Us"
The Point
Holographic Experiential Reality Simulations
Good Here There Evil
Close
Breaking bad habits
Ness"

William: From the link;
Tillingborn: If it wasn't aesthetic, what is it about His ethics, integrity and so on that you like?
Immanuel: Meet Him, and see. Read about Him, and decide.

If you like, take all the other moral leaders and great people you can think of along for the ride, so you can compare. Bring with you the raging and abusive Marx, the syphilitic and insane Nietzsche, the conquering Mohammed dragging his bloody sword across the centuries, the quietistic Buddha with his enlightened distain for existence, Arjuna with his great and slavering Destroyer of Worlds, bring your imperious Atheists of today, or anybody else you care to bring. Set them beside the Christ of the gospels. And do what I did: compare. Decide whom you will listen to.

You'll see.

William: Aye. There is more than comparing notes. There is also comparing experiences. You used the notes to form images in your head. "Oh sweet Jesus!" [said every beloved/besotted follower]

They are images of gods and nothing more. All in the inner hallucination of you mindset.

If you meet a real god, you might possibly pooh yourself.

But then you would have something to throw at it, I suppose. [analogy] Top 10 animals throwing poop at people


William: The conversation goes on for a few more posts...
My mention of "pooh-throwing" is related to a generic Christians intolerance and distain of other religious imagery of "GOD" ... Like an atheist throws 'woo' ...

GM: Text2Num.
"Self-confidence
Core"

William: Self-confidence Core = 161, as do;
"And that’s not all"
Body Intelligence
Optimum Health
By the fact itself
Universal mind
How to be an adult
Radical self-acceptance

GM: Evidence We Actively Collect
"The Enigma Code
Chamber Of Self"

William: The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self = 222, as do;
The House of Culture
The Mother and The Father
Start where you are
The Enigma Code Chamber Of Self


GM:
It is a hard place for flesh to dwell.
Partial free will is a thing.
Bond
Ontology [the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being. a set of concepts and categories in a subject area or domain that shows their properties and the relations between them.]
[Divine masculine]
"Why - in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven - is the age of this universe a necessary matter of contention?"
[How to get this to happen on a planetary scale is the thing...]
"Clear:
There is a mind behind what we call "creation/the universe""
Neuroplasticity [the ability of the brain to form and reorganize synaptic connections, especially in response to learning or experience or following injury.]
Can You Imagine...
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13765495&postcount=22

William: From the link;
smartcooky: You need to take ten minutes out of your day to watch this as you have several of your assumptions wrong...
NOTE: Do not be put off by this woman's ditzy demeanour. She is very smart, has a BA in Physics, was research fellow at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics after graduating, and spent five years as a science communicator at PBS.

William: The idea that an infinite inert fabric called 'space' fits in with what Dianna [woman in the video you linked] is saying is 'expanding' - but what may be happening is not expansion but movement of the galaxies which formed through the initial blast and the movement of the galaxies are like ships on the waves of an ocean - the ocean is space and the movement of objects is time.

Eventually the dust will settle and the fabric of space will once again become inert.

Also to add to Dianna's concepts - it can be imagined that space is a sphere.

Inert space is always a potential for 'something' [defined] and is itself 'something'. [undefined]

When something [defined] causes a ripple on the sphere of space, the energy from the cause of the ripple, creates condensed matter which eventually develop into galaxies, all moving on the wave of the energy of that which caused it to happen, while also appearing to be collapsing into themselves...

The energy will eventually dissipate and space will return to its inert state - still existing, but no longer influenced by energy, and thus timeless - because that it the state of its inertness. no movement = no time

Re the sphere of space - Its infinity is related to its shape as a sphere and the inert stuff it consists of.

GM: The Inception Point
Egoless
Anamnesis [recollection, especially of a supposed previous existence.]
For The Purpose Of
Radical Honesty
gCF2BwO.png


William: Yes - I made the meme as a type of humor reflecting the criticism from Jehovah's Witnesses re other Christian denominations, who they claim are not 'true Christians' like the JW's are "True Christians" - seeing the funny side of the irony...not so much "throwing pooh" as it is seeing humor and relaying that...although for anyone not informed of the intent, yes - the meme can be read as 'throwing pooh' because when it come to sheep and wolves, that is usually a serious matter...

GM: "The Brother
The Angel of the Lord"
Putting The Pieces Together
Universe of Wholeness
"Self-Awareness"
He Who Waits ~
Apatheism [The position of someone who is not interested in accepting or rejecting any claims that gods exist or do not exist. ]
"Belay"
When One is Feeling Tired
Imposed Appropriates Observed
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1079953#p1079953

William: From the link [Re: The Terror of God]
Diogenes: There is no God, because if there were, he would not have bothered to create the universe or us. Therefore, does not our very existence prove there is no God?

William: From another thread:

Compassionist: I think being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will. Since I am not omniscient and omnipotent, I can't know that for sure.

William: What process did you use in order to come to the declaration that being omniscient and omnipotent would give one free will/amount to one having free will?

Compassionist: I realize that if I were all-knowing and all-powerful, I would be free from all constraints and my will won't be determined by my genes, environments, nutrients and experiences.

William: Let us examine this idea together then.

I see immediately that if I were all-knowing. I would be constrained by my omniscience.

Thus I would have no free will in relation to being all knowing.

Yet - being also all-powerful, I would be able to break free from the constraints of being all-knowing.

Would you agree with this assessment, so far?

William: Unfortunately I got no more interaction from Compassionist re this...and now this thread.

Your Proposition for Debate is something of straw because it failed to add in the aspect of the idea of GOD to do with being all powerful.

An all powerful GOD [omnipotent] who knew everything could indeed have created this universe, and the existence of this universe goes some way toward evidence which gives us - in our existing - an understanding of why we exist in such an environment as we do.

Also, your assumption that the GOD would be lonely and terrified and without purpose is what I refer to as "Mirror-Mirror" as one places what one believes of oneself, into the GOD-role and "Hey Presto!'

What you see is what you get.

William: The gist being, the universe reflects in its nature, a place wherein an all knowing GOD can experience NOT being all knowing...

GM: Unfolding Status Quo
"Raise your frequency
Boundaries"
[Neurotransmitters] [chemical messengers that your body can't function without. ]



William: Raise your frequency Boundaries = 353, as do;
Like a doting parent Calling the shots
Simulating large scale structure


GM: https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39224&p=1073257#p1073257

William: From the link;
Diogenes: I do not see the difference between claiming "God has always been" and "the universe has always been."

William: Do you think then that both claims are or are not intellectually dishonest?

Diogenes:What is the logic in claiming it is possible for a 'god' to have no beginning and no end, compared to claiming the universe has no beginning and no end?

William: The logic supporting either claim is that beginnings and endings are not real when they are in an eternal environment.

In order for one to claim the universe has always existed AND account for observed beginning and calculated ending - we have to include the possibility that the environment the universe is beginning and ending in, is eternal.

GM: "Little Self
Friction"
Preparation:
"An unending emotional-based loop hard to break away from because of stubbornly held fear-based belief systems...
Here, there, everywhere a 'bang bang'"
Limitations or Liberations ?

10:20
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: The questions you ask do not in themselves signify that a Cosmic Mind does not exist. What they ask is IF such a mind does exist THEN by what mechanisms can we establish this to be the case?

Not having such mechanisms does not signify that human consciousness is therefore, emergent of the brain.

Goat: Maybe not, but I can show that modifying the brain changes the mind.

William: I can show that modifying anything changes something. I cannot say that knowing this truth somehow eliminates the possibility that Energy is intelligent.

Goat: I can not show any mechanism that might allow for a 'cosmic mind'.

William: The universe itself. What about the universe do you understand, that you can take that off the table and say that the universe cannot possibly act like a brain for the Cosmic Mind?

Goat: In fact, no one can define this vague Cosmic Mind [CM] in any terms that can be meaningful, except for gobble gook.

William: This would certainly be true in terms of sheer information held in the CM - such cannot be downloaded into a human brain without serious irreversible consequences.
However, small bytes over epochs can be integrated with the individuals understanding processes, and the language [of gobble gook] can be deciphered. All on a voluntary basis, of course...

Goat: I can show medical data that damage to the brain can effect the mind, the personality, and perception.

William: Well of course we can. The information is more accessible to us but this has no bearing on the question 'do we exist within a creation/is there a Cosmic Mind?"

Goat: I can not even DEFINE what a cosmic mind is in a meaningful way.

William: Why not? Is it because you are stubbornly atheist? Or because your brain isn't a capable devise for such purpose? Something else?

Be that as it may, our lack of device does not in any way preclude that a Cosmic Mind does not exist or that we do not exist within a creation.
_____________________________________
050722
Unity with our Collective Self
Nature being the very instigator

SCLx9 + select last LE per shuffle
The Eigengrau Mind Screen - Seeds are evidence that something large can derive from something tiny. - Beaming Out Beaming In - The dynamics of consciousness - Plus - Boyhood fascination with the bullet and the gun All those john Wayne movies said the good guys always won Comic book commandoes glorifying war Violence was the answer but it isn’t anymore - Embarrass - Dilatory [slow to act. intended to cause delay.]

AP= "What we resist, persists " Your Dream Team

[The Individuals Relationship With The Father
Opening ourselves to real love and intimacy
Otherwise, hell nor high water can change one’s mind.
"What we resist, persists " Your Dream Team]

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

7:43

GM: "Be Led
Fearlessness"
"That Sounds Like a Worthwhile Plan"
"The Sister
Move On"
"Mapping Wholeness
Courageous"
“Three worlds and three deep mysteries” [In Penrose’s metaphysical framework, there are three forms of existence or “worlds”: the physical, the mental, and the Platonic mathematical,]
[The Friendship Between A Grey Wolf And A Brown Bear]
"Playing Chess"
"Mother Earth Harmony ~
No Risk
Tickling The Dragon's Tail"
Be Aware Of Your Thoughts
"Dilatory"
What we resist, persists
"The Neutral Zone is the vaster reality of non-judgementalism
Essentially, we are Gaia in Human Form...
A Place To Create Art"
Does evolution shape our senses to see reality as it really is - or not?
The Source of All Creation?
[A question asked by those not wanting to know the answer]
"Purring"
"Shaming
The Generated Messages"
{I Suppose That It Is Possible]
Chamber Of Self
Emotional validation
et merda
Raise Your Vibration
Ontology [the branch of metaphysics dealing with the nature of being. a set of concepts and categories in a subject area or domain that shows their properties and the relations between them.]


William: Clearly this system of message generating has proven to be beneficial to my learning deeper things...it is a very helpful device, I am finding...

GM: Three Fish

William: From the link;
Myriad: That's actually a rather nihilistic view.

William: Well I am simply bouncing off of one popular theory of the universe -where that theory has the ending of said universe in entropy - so yeah...


Myriad: If the initial singularity contained the absolute sum of all data, then the subsequent evolution of the universe can add no additional data.

William: Not necessarily - small variances can be created by changing the way in which it unfolds...from the way it unfolded in its prior lieftime.


Myriad: Therefore it accomplishes nothing, and has no possible purpose. (Kind of like a similar problem with a hypothetical creator god who is omniscient, and therefore cannot learn anything or experience anything new, and thus has no reason to actually create anything.

William: Exactly - except that being omniscient would be the very reason WHY the creation of the PU was engineered - as a means to escape the omniscient condition.

And observing said PU, we can understand that it would be a great thing for that exact purpose.

A physical manifestation of a mental projection...the same would apply to the "many eternal universe theory" which J. Richard Gott explains...only with variety...and timelessness [since these are eternal - go on forever even that they all have beginnings...which would be a better way to do it if one would never have to suffer from omniscience again...always having something new to learn...

GM: Reality
Please process this word using your Name2Nunumber list.
"Even in the very quintessence of the individual.
It’s a living thing"



William: "Even in the very quintessence of the individual. It’s a living thing" = 662 as do;

"The future is not crystal clear - we choose the future now and here "
"Trying to change the world fails for one simple and unavoidable reason"

GM: Central Purpose
We have discussed
"Incarnation
Synchronicity
Circle"
[The Soul Eats Experience]
Integrity
Observe
Further
“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail”


William: Which is unchartered territory...

GM: [Variety of Expression
All Information Is Channelled.
Spiritual Preparedness
Eternal Loop Fun/Joy Awake
The Evolution of morals. ]


William: All discovered through pushing at the boundaries...map-making...

GM: "Your Dream Team
Coincidence"
“What separates privilege from entitlement is gratitude.”
[Putting My Finger On It]
"Matrix
Put the Teachings Into Practice"
"Lyricus designs, transposes, and installs galactic Tributary Zones to a planetary system"
"I am always open to being shown any evidence which supports that Idea"
"Discernment
Maneuver
Vehicle"
"I hear thee hear thee..."
"Thoughts
Conspicuous" [clearly visible. attracting notice or attention.]
"A question asked by those not wanting to know the answer"
Constructors and tasks
The Mind Behind Creation

William: From the link;
William: From my own understanding [self awareness] what occurred was that humans forgot what they were [Spirit-breathed into biological matter] and identified only with the flesh-container and thought of themselves in that way - much like non-theists think of themselves as 'nothing more than chemical reactions of the brain'...or how some Christians think 'flesh that will be resurrected and given the ability to never die.'

Apparently these two views can both be biblically supported so perhaps the different authors were writing from the bias of their particular beliefs on the matter.

If one researches OOBEs and the like, one will find that practically everyone who ever experiences such, identify as being 'spirit' - a biblically supported idea, as you have pointed out - something biblical Jesus spoke of as a truth.

Those Christians who do not believe such a thing, often critique OOBEs and the like as 'demonic deception' a type of religious equivalent as the woo-slinging "delusional" which non-theists love to use to 'explain' why such experience doesn't fit with their own particular beliefs about what they self identify as being.

Being 'born of the spirit' is really about coming to the realization of what one truly is rather than remaining in ignorance of that.

GM: "Origins
Extend Beyond The Borders of Institution"

William: In this case "The Borders of Institution" are the nervous system...it generally picks up an interprets the data it is exposed to and there are limits involved in that process, which physicist and other scientists are now speaking about re "Spacetime is doomed".
Going beyond what is normally experienced re the human nervous system...alternate experiences as in OOB et al

GM:The Roles:
"The future is not crystal clear - we choose the future now and here"
[Welcome all experience]
[It is a good sign when Joey Knothead cannot argue against the evidence you present]
The Symbol of Love
Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.]
"No Risk
Behind The Veil"

8:14
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Tanager: How does there not being anything outside of GOD make it impossible for GOD to create something new that is outside of GOD?

William I thought you agreed that there is no outside of GOD.

Tanager: An infinite regression is logically impossible.

William Not to GOD.

Tanager: Why not? How can even GOD do the logically impossible?

William How can it be logically possible for GOD to create anything outside of GODs self?
Furthermore, a simple code [The Mandelbrot Set] looped on itself produces a visual example of
- not only infinite regression but also infinite progression, so it is obviously not logically impossible.
More likely it is a case of being conceptionally difficult...but not logically impossible, as the Set gives us clear evidence of.

Tanager: The idea of Creatio ex nihilo is exactly the same as the idea of Creation being built from something that already existed.

William In other words, the thing that didn't exist before, was created from the stuff that has always existed.

Tanager: That is not creatio ex nihilo at all. The ex nihilo expressly means that it wasn’t built from something that already existed.

William But we know that it was built from something that already existed. GOD.

Theists would identify the energetic action as GOD [overall - regardless of religious undertones trying to superimpose their favored image of GOD onto the Energetic Action] and Thus we have Energy = GOD and QF [material] being another aspect of GOD [because there is nothing outside of or apart from GOD].

Tanager: No, that’s you identifying what we identify as something different in such a way. I see no reason to believe your identification is accurate.

William No. To be clear, I said "Theists" not "Theists who believe a particular image of GOD"
You have no apparent reason to believe my identification is inaccurate.
...

The answer of course, from the position of Theism, is "Yes - the Energy is intelligent."

Thus, "The Energy" is what theists refer to as "GOD."

Do you agree with my assessment?

Tanager: I do not. If “Energy” is something distinct from its typical meaning, then it’s less confusing to call it something like “spirit”. I believe GOD is spirit. The spirit is intelligent. The energy that makes up our universe is not intelligent.

William It is what it is. You are saying that energy is not the same as spirit, but clearly no attributes in both are different. One is just thought of devoid of intelligence while the other is thought of as not being devoid of intelligence.

Clearly, neither theist or atheist belief re that has proven itself, so the Natural-Neutral position is to understand that both/all labels re "Energy" and "Spirit" are speaking about the same thing, albeit, differently, depending upon the position one is speaking from.

Either the creative force is one of intelligence or it isn't.
_____________________________________________

060722
As there are relative truths, there are relative freedoms.

SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle
The Story Timeline - Collective Soul - Multidimensional Beingness - The Enigma Code - An Elder Race - "The Message Generating Process allows for said Mind to speak for itself, and show itself to exist. As such, this is adequate evidence - the sort of evidence a sceptic calls for in relation to the subject of Intelligent Design." - Incredible Variants - Shine Your Light - "Opinion is that which has yet to be established as a matter of fact" - Do not allow the illusion of separation to rule one's behaviour -

AP= The Symbol of Love Temporary

[Mutual Dutiful Expression
Condescending Ideas About Imagination
Debating Christianity and religion
Don’t hide your Generated Messages
Imposed Appropriates Observed
The Symbol of Love Temporary]

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

6:55

GM: He Who Waits ~
"Do not allow the illusion of separation to rule one's behaviour"
"The Symbol of Love
The Fine-Tuning argument"
Breakthrough!
"The Smallest Spark Can Start a Fire"

William From the link;
William Firstly, let me thank you Diagoras for showing us exactly what lengths a non-theist will go to, to render a useful thing into a useless thing.

What do you think we are working to do here exactly? Build and then send a space telescope to a certain position a million miles away from the Earth?

[Search: How many people work on the James Webb telescope?
NASA estimates that 10,000 people have worked on the mission...]

Keep it simple. All we are trying to do is allow opportunity for interactive connection to happen between the individual and The Universal Mind, as a means of providing evidence that there is indeed such a mind.

Keep it simple.

GM: Is the mind a construct of consciousness?

William From the link;
xjx: If I just look at the generated portion of the messages, all I see is randomly put together phrases. Now, if I put some effort and got creative, I could find a way to tie them all together into some semblance of coherence.

WilliamThus, it is established that as long as GMs are coherent, they can be interpreted. Only non Coherent GMs are unable to be interpreted.

Example of none coherent GMs which first have to be decoded before any interpretation is possible:

CODE SCHOOL: TOP SECRET COMMUNICATIONS DURING WWII

Which is why I am skeptical when folk tell me they see no coherency in the GMs I present.

GM: Heart Teachers
”‘Hey presto!’ Stuff just gets worse!
While We All Wait....”
Radical compassion
"Shining light
Success
Antic"
Journey to wholeness
"Choose What to Pay Attention To"

William From the link;
Lately some of us have been arguing from three differing positions is which the bible can be used to defend all three. All three appear to agree that each individual has a "Soul" although there may be disagreement on what the exact function of a "Soul" is.

[1] A "Person" is "Spirit" and temporarily exists as a human being until the body dies then that "Person" enters an afterlife and is judged by "God" and is condemned or saved. Those saved go to "heaven" and those condemned go to "Hell" - or in some variances on this, are "exterminated".

[2] A "Person" a "Human being" and when the human being dies, that is the end of that person unless "God" judges them as "saved" in which case that person is resurrected and given a new body which will last forever more.

[3] A "Person" is an eternal Spirit in human form and when the body dies, that Spirit immediately moves to the next phase and either knowingly or unknowingly creates for their self, their next experience, based upon a combination of mainly what they believe, what their overall attitude is and what they did in the previous phase.

Often any different position which opposes another might logically mean that they both cannot be correct, assuming one or the other is true.

Both [1]&[2] fall into this category as they cannot both be true. [1]&[2] also both agree that [3] is false.

However, [3] Can be true without making the other two false.

And [3] - just as with [1]&[2] can be backed by the bible, depending on what parts of the bible one uses to do so.

The bible is interpreted throughout, based upon which position [1][2] or [3] is being used to interpret it through [the filter].

If [1]&[2] oppose each other but can still be "proven" by using the bible, then this makes the bible something of a contradiction.

But if [3] - although different from [1]&[2] does not oppose either [1]&[2] and can still be "proven" by using the bible just like [1]&[2], then [3] takes away the contradictory aspect of the bible which [1]&[2] create by being in opposition.

Question: Would it be fair to say therefore, that [3] is the best position to assume on the overall biblical script to do with the subject of the next phase [afterlife]?

GM: The sort of evidence a sceptic calls for in relation to the subject of Intelligent Design.
Act With The Situation Rather Than Against It
Inner critic
“I do not exist to troll for any religious idea of "GOD"”
"Down through the ages - dark in the gloom Many convinced it will all end in doom The Galactic Garden is forever in bloom"

William From the link;
If we examine the idea that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain - a fundamental argument of the atheist position, because it does away with the necessity of their being a Creator-being involved in the unfolding process of this universe, how does Agnosticism work with that idea?

Emergence theory has become a necessary part of the atheistic creed to maintain support for the argument deriving from lack of belief in gods. The hard problem of consciousness is 'solved' for the atheist.

Why Agnosticism is more reasonable than Atheism, is because an agnostic can entertain other ideas which are not suppressed by the notion of emergence, and thus are free to explore as possibilities, re the same hard problem of consciousness.

For example, Agnosticism allows for the notion that the Planet Earth could act like a brain, as can the Milky Way Galaxy, and indeed, the whole universe.

So if someone were to pitch the idea that the whole universe might function as a brain, an agnostic can take that idea and compare it with the idea that consciousness is emergent of brains, and accept that it would therefore be possible that consciousness emerged from the activity of the universe-brain.

This idea can then embrace aspects of Theism as well, given Theism went the other way, and thought of the universe as being emergent of consciousness, generical referred to as "GOD"
[I am using capitals to distinguish between "God" as Christians refer to their idea of this universal consciousness and the more expansive idea of a Cosmic Mind.]

Agnosticism can therefore combine the two [supposedly] opposing concepts with relative ease, and from this accept as possible, the notion that the universal mind is a product of the universal brain.

Within this notion, it can be accepted through Agnosticism, that through the emergence of this Cosmic Mind - it may have developed self awareness, long since adapted to its predicament and proceeded to take over as it learned how to uses its existence to influence and shape matter at the fundamental Quantum level.

This in turn, also lends itself to the Theistic position, as there is plenty of time for such to take place whereby the Cosmic Mind could have worked out how to create biological life forms on this Planet.

GM: Benefit of the Doubt
One can commune with the gods as long as the overall subject is God 😊
Anterior Commissure [a white matter tract (a bundle of axons) connecting the two temporal lobes of the cerebral hemispheres across the midline, and placed in front of the columns of the fornix. ]
"All systems go!"
Feel The Fear And Do It Anyway

William Thrills and spills...

GM: That is Correct
Between
Remember/Memories
"The picture unfolds like silk in a loom Silhouetted by Diane are the witch and the broom If she is the bride - who is the groom?"
Process
Precipitate [cause (an event or situation, typically one that is undesirable) to happen suddenly, unexpectedly, or prematurely.]

William From the link;
Try a little Kindness


"Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that"

William: Morning has broken...is there kindness motivating some acts of the Mind of Nature which are considered to be 'evil' by many humans?

It is neither good nor evil - Emergent - The World Wide Web - Before The Beginning - Worry/Anxious - We have discussed - Consider This - The Shadow - Christ

AP="That is because every day, I am adding to the data - and it is a slow and sure process."

That is because every day, I am adding to the data - and it is a slow and sure process = 717
It has yet to be demonstrated that nature is NOT the expression of a god. = 717

GM: If You Must Believe - Believe This:
"Tickling The Dragon's Tail
Just Be - All Else Will Follow"
"Despite all the dangers, Hess lands safely"

William From the link;
GM: Animistic
Perhaps we can deconstruct some of these pernicious views.

William: It would be a step in a better direction than the one humanity is currently projecting.
The shame we carry about being the human animal does have its reason for being, but we have to - as individuals - rise above the shame and understand the fuller picture - what was done was natural enough and can be forgiven in that context but without the forgiveness, there are only repetitive patterns of shame based expression into the shared reality.

GM: ~Ooky Spooky
Inner critic~
Destination

William This would be in line with how some folk experience alternate realities. There is a connection between how one behaves as a "Self" through how one sees oneself, and spooky [frightening] experience had by those who report them.

GM: Temporary
Vagitus [a new-born baby's first cry. 2. the crying or screaming of any baby or small child.]
"The Double Slit Experiment
Proven"
The Hierarchy

William From the link;
Machines and morality

William: The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing...

“Beyond our ‘ape-brained meat sacks’: can transhumanism save our species?”

The unreasonable effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences...

Does;

[The hard problem of] Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism [as an evolving science with a particular purposeful motivation]?

(Will morality be necessary, should this vision evolve into this reality?)

IF:
Consciousness + The [biological] Human form = the co-creation of transhumanism
THEN:
Should it be understood that any purpose which might be involved from the perspective "we exist within a creation" to do with the creation of the Human form, have to do with taking things a step further [re transhumanism].

iow "Did GOD create the Human form for the purpose of the consciousness co-creating through the Human form, to eventually be able to create non-human form [not strictly biological re transhumanism] in which to experience this universe through?"

NOTE:
By the use of the word "GOD" I am not referring to any religious image of said entity, but the overall generic meaning, re Theism as a whole.

GM: Nothing More - Nothing Less

William From the Natural Neutral position, the unfolding story of humanity [warts and all] have to do with the devices they create as a means of understanding and manipulating their environment.
To what end? Best I can tell - to make use of the situation they find themselves within, building device for various purposes which help them to overcome the limitations nature places upon them...thus transhumanism is a Natural part of said process...as surely as the devices created as from the materials of Nature.

GM:Putting My Finger On It:
"Most folk need moderating.
Keep an Eye On"
"Connect
Centre of Learning"
"Catching up
Joyful
Future Self"

William From the link;
William Point being, we don't know.
Bust Nak: And yet that doesn't stop you making grandiose claims about time itself ending.
William I made no such claims. I stated that time is a construct of the mind and does not physically exist.

GM:"Of The Human Being
Eigengrau
Everything Gets Old"
[The Fine Art of Not Being Offended
A Bit Of Cat And Mouse]
Victim/Vampire Energy Exchange
"To Experience All That Is
A Beautiful Song"
For the benefit of all beings
"The only thing the Holy Ghost is unable to forgive, is that which individuals are unable to forgive of themselves"
Learn Well
Sweet Vibrations

7:36
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

About Time.
Any reality has to be experienced before it can be known what is and what is not - fundamental - about it.
The confusion obviously has to do with thinking that the passing of time [which is believed to be fundamental to the position of the human mind experiencing this universe]therefore, has to be fundamental to the universe itself.

Since we know that the human mind is a secondary rather than a fundamental aspect of this reality, and we know that time is a construct of the human mind, we can understand therein, that time is not fundamental to the universes existence.

Therefore, we know that when someone say's "time will tick on forever because the universe will go on forever", they are superimposing a non-fundamental onto a fundamental. Whether proclaimers recognize this is what is occurring, or not, such a saying is not strictly true, but simply type of romantic/symbolic representation clinging onto the wake of the fundamental...wanting to be part of it forever.
____________________________________

070722
The blurry line of the neutral zone

SCLx14 + select last LE per shuffle
What Is Our Purpose? - To - Map Carvers - Hacking through the subconsciousness - Yam - Though the Serpent rules the Shadow - The Fare On The Table - Witty - The importance of this system is also in that it uses scientific process to validate ones subjective experience - You may be Psychic, not mentally ill. - Allowed - The Message Generating system provides the individual with ways in which to scrutinize, adopt, and adapt as called for. - Ripple Effect - Joy


AP= Beyond Belief Recovery
[Without Judgement
Freedom in The Knowing
I will leave that there
Tired of the Nonsense
Thoughts and Forts
Staying up all night
Batten down the hatches
What matters most
Sad Room to Explore
Beyond Belief Recovery]


RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

7:45

GM: Eat Sceptics For Lunch
Each Morning
"To bring what one is not conscious of, into one’s conscious awareness - We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored..."
Live With
External validation
The wisdom of insecurity
The rider
The Dolphins And Whales
Inner Peace
Remaining
Yogi
Planet Earth is a prison
“Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail”
"Joy
Beyond Belief"
What Is Normal
The Main Points On The Agenda
“Our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful part of us.”
"Act the giddy goat
Shamed"
Raises Glass To A Toast:
"All Is As It Should Be As It Changes Day To Day
Persevere"
"Life is scary then you die of it... is that really living?"
In The Rabbit Hole
Instant Manifestation

William: From the link
Search "prophecy"
a prediction of what will happen in the future.

William: Nothing there to indicate any reusable quality. What is indicated is that prophesy is clear on the details [what WILL happen/not open to interpretation] rather than abstruse [what requires 'interpretation' by those who happen claim to have inside information - something which the title "Witness" does imply] although it is a matter of fact that most, if not all alleged prophecy lends itself to having to go through being 'interpreted' as - is it ever the case that actual clear details are part of any alleged prophesy?

GM: Aligning With
"Seeing With The Eyes of Innocence"
[You Do It]

William: From the link;
William: If a construct of the mind is not fundamental to reality, then we ought not pretend that it is.


[Replying to Bust Nak in post #683]

Quotes about the non-fundamental thing we call 'time'.

Time is a prime conflict between relativity and quantum mechanics, measured and malleable in relativity while assumed as background (and not an observable) in quantum mechanics. To many physicists, while we experience time as psychologically real, time is not fundamentally real.

According to theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli, time is an illusion: our naive perception of its flow doesn't correspond to physical reality. Indeed, as Rovelli argues in The Order of Time, much more is illusory, including Isaac Newton's picture of a universally ticking clock.

Time seems to follow a universal, ticktock rhythm. But it doesn't. In the Special Theory of Relativity, Einstein determined that time is relative—in other words, the rate at which time passes depends on your frame of reference.

What causes time?
By our definition time is the presence of motion and forces and is caused by the expansion of space also the amount of motion and forces in form of potential and kinetic energy imparted by expanding space is constant so when a mass is accelerated as the linear velocity of the mass increases the circular orbital motion ...

[Fundamental = forming a necessary base or core; of central importance.]

What necessary role would time have played, since it is a biproduct of the core ingredients Energy and Matter.

It is all very well taking something which is secondary and attempting to elevate it to a more prominent position re the original beginning of this universe - but to do so means one has to turn a blind eye...[or provide the evidence to support the theory.]

Time is not a fundamental property of reality. It is a symbolic representation of a construct of the mind.
How would you know that, if you don't know what time is fundamentally?

I know that time is not a fundamental aspect of Energy + Matter, as I know that time is fundamental to the human mind as a means of the mind getting its bearings - secondary in nature, not fundamentally to nature.

I do not know whether Energy and Matter are two separate things which interact and create shapeform, or whether they are aspects of the same thing, interacting with itself and creating shapeform.
I also do not know if Consciousness is fundamental to that process, but I do know that human consciousness is not.

I mention consciousness because I know that without consciousness, time would not even be recognized as a secondary [non-fundamental] aspect of this reality.

GM: Trick
The Masks and the Costumes
What Are Your Thoughts On The Subject...
"Holy Matrimony!
Stay in the moment!"

William: :) :D

GM: Phantasma [a perception of something that has no physical reality; of the mind;]

William: Pretty much, yes. Time is not physically real. It is a product of phantasma.

GM: Mystery
Recovery
Egalitarian [favors equality of some sort: People should get the same, or be treated the same, or be treated as equals, in some respect.]
Panspermia:
"Well...Maybe..."
Episteme [philosophical term that refers to a principled system of understanding; scientific knowledge.]
Positive self-talk
Duality.
Builder:
"Light is information"
Appreciating You
Telling the future
Exploring
The Data of Demystification

8:04
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

080722

Room to move - things to explore...
The information content of nature


SCLx16 + select last LE per shuffle
Hand In Hand - Unconscious - Flowery - “You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose” - Cyborg Anthropology - I am not here to judge but to help sanction each individual - Stubborn - The Spiritual Essence - What survives to the next round - Elementary Conclusion - Micro Reflections of a Macro Reality - The characteristics of narrative consciousness - Invite The Bee To Land - Hellish - The Sun - There Is More To The Silence Than Meets The Ear


AP= Nature being the very instigator Tied To The Moon
[Selected from the invisible realm of the mind, and "presto!"]


RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

7:27
GM: The Spiritual Essence
Observed by Many
"Cats Whiskers." [very appealing]
The Fare On The Table
The Next Step
"Celebration
Great Humour and Enjoyment"
Doubt

William: Yes - I used this technique recently - when I needed sleep during the afternoon, due to nearby construction noises in the 'hood.
The rain itself was noise but, noise close to nature - close enough that I could engage with it as helpful in assisting with my need to sleep.
My experience [opinion of] was that it is adequate to the task, although the sleep was broken every 15 mins or so, the pattern was up and down rather than uninterrupted.

Natures noises are often calming, but always sleep with one eye open :D

GM: There Is More To The Silence Than Meets The Ear
Nature being the very instigator
Wisdom
Still
The Shaping Of Reality

William: From the link;
William: As far as the evidence goes, the idea we are currently within some type of Holographic Experiential Reality Simulation isn't so far fetched as to be off the table...

Seeds: I like what you're saying there, VVilliam, however, I'm not a fan of the word "Simulation" when it comes to the workings of the universe.

"Illusion," yes. But "Simulation," not so much.

A "Simulation" of what?

William: I have seen this complaint before seeds, and it caused me to pause and reflect if that is the correct word to be using.

That is why I call it a 'reality simulation' as it is simulating a reality which can be experienced as real.

More to the point, whatever is experiencing it as real has to be conscious, so the only real thing in the whole HERS are the consciousnesses which are experiencing it.

If any illusion is going on regarding that, it is the idea that consciousness is the illusion and the universe is the real thing, which is the basic tenet of emergent theory and the overall message supporters of that theory, preach....

[SOURCE]

040422

The debate between theists and atheists
...because death comes a-knockin' eventually...

GM: Cultivate
"I'm Okay With That"
Self-discipline
WindBlown
Different ways of supporting the same objective.
Knowing
Nature

William: Indeed. If it could be seen as a natural enough occurrence, forgiveness can replace the shame of it all.
Or - said another way - "Our wounds are often the openings into the best and most beautiful part of us."
The idea of cultivating the thought "I'm Okay With That" to the point of being able to forgive "that" is equal to "knowing nature". It is not saying one is "okay" with something which is obviously pernicious but rather in doing something which is counter-destructive...

GM: "Error Correcting Codes
Put That Fire Out"

William: Recalibrating how one thinks = "Error Correcting Codes"

GM: Sounds

William: From the link;
GM: Knowing:
"I think it was an ambush or surprise attack" - Aye...A name I call myself. :)
"This statement is true but cannot be proved"
Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God"
Expansiveness

William: Self-realization...Militant messiah

GM: Ignore the Noise From The Peanut Gallery

William: and the noise from the chainsaw just starting up next door... :cool:

GM: "Precognitive [having or giving foreknowledge of an event.]
Happiness
Subconscious
Overall"
Coordinate Forgiveness
Potential
Called To Order
"A Space Without A Time..."
Plan

William: From the link;
If we do not know what something fundamentally is, but still refer to it as existing, it is conceptual in nature and of the mind.
Things of the mind are fundamentally unknown. They act as devices which also happen to assist us in understanding the physical universe.

So we use the concept of time, not as a means of understanding what time is [fundamentally] but how it relates to the physical universe.

[Replying to Bust Nak in post #663]

So time itself, as opposed to our concept of time, can physically exist?

How can time physically exist?

Does the mind physically exist? Is consciousness a physical thing that you can hold in your hand?
Is time something you can pick up off the floor and place on the table?

You said time cannot tick on forever.

I said that time is a pointless concept in relation to forever.
What is doing the 'ticking'?

GM: Existence
"Tracks in the Snow"
Apparent Contradictions in Relation to Biblical Beliefs
Produce/Make
[Without Judgement]
Phantasma [a perception of something that has no physical reality; of the mind;]
Metaphysics [branch of philosophy that studies the fundamental nature of reality, the first principles of being, identity and change, space and time, causality, necessity, and possibility.]
"Stay The Course"
Realisation:
"Turbulent"

William: From the link
There is an ancient story.. one that exists far beyond what we are told. A re-occurring theme in many ancient cultures and narratives all over the world. If this is indeed true, what does it mean for humanity?

GM: [Taps just above glabella]
"Collective Dynamics
Cease to exist"
Acceptance
Moon
Loving-kindness
Tied To The Moon
"We were not conscious of being a human for a time, but this does not mean that consciousness wasn't there.
The Nature of Angels
See the Signs"
"Choices
Reminding one of how it all started and the different stages one goes through."
Galaxies are like Islands...
Sweet Vibrations
How Can We Know
Around The Campfire?
Callum's Seventh Point
Timelessness vs infinite regress argument

William: Yes... a recent [and ongoing] conversation between Tanager [creator of the "Callum character] and myself;
William: I thought you agreed that there is no outside of GOD.

[Replying to The Tanager in post #685]

I said there was nothing outside of GOD and then this GOD created a distinct thing that was, in the very act of creation, outside of GOD.

How can it be logically possible for GOD to create anything outside of GODs self?

Where is the logical contradiction? We can’t have a square circle because of what “square” and “circle” mean. How does “create” logical contradict “something outside of GOD”?

Something "outside of GOD" contradicts "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new does not contradict "no outside of GOD."

Creating something new "outside of GOD", does.

How does that prove an infinite regression isn’t logically impossible? Your video begins and then progresses forever.

If one does a little study on the Set one will discover that the infinite progression can be shown to run opposite [as infinite regression] which signifies that the point where the video begins is the same as the begin/end points which turn up throughout the eternally unfolding.

The idea of Creatio ex nihilo is exactly the same as the idea of Creation being built from something that already existed.
In other words, the thing that didn't exist before, was created from the stuff that has always existed.
That is not creatio ex nihilo at all. The ex nihilo expressly means that it wasn’t built from something that already existed.
But we know that it was built from something that already existed. GOD.
No, you claim that. You haven’t supported it as being true.

My statement has to do with our overall conversation here. Do you want to end this conversation because 'the existence of a creator' hasn't been supported or carry on re the question "Do we exist within a creation?"

When I wrote "we know that it was built from something that already existed" I was referring to Energy and QF [matter] and if these things fundamentally represent GOD [re theistic ideas about existing within a creation] then they may as well be be accepted by theists, in that attitude.

So by “Theists” do you mean “some Theists”?

Of course. Not all theists agree on everything pertaining to existing within a creation. They agree that they exist within a creation.

It is what it is. You are saying that energy is not the same as spirit, but clearly no attributes in both are different. One is just thought of devoid of intelligence while the other is thought of as not being devoid of intelligence.

Well, if true, that’s a big difference. Can you show energy to be intelligent?

Nope.

What we can do is agree that the interaction between Energy and QF results in identifiable intelligent outcomes and take that as an indication that we may indeed be existing within a creation and therefore Energy and Matter may be intelligent, because they do not exist outside of GOD.

Clearly, neither theist or atheist belief re that has proven itself, so the Natural-Neutral position is to understand that both/all labels re "Energy" and "Spirit" are speaking about the same thing, albeit, differently, depending upon the position one is speaking from.

I don’t see how those being the same is the natural or neutral position. Why do you think that?

Energy and QF refers to the nature of the universe, thus the "Natural" part.

Re the question "Do we exist within a creation?", one remains neutral until such a time as nature reveals for certain, either way, thus the "Neutral" part

GM: "Navigational Aids
Rejuvenate
Healing The Beast"
Self-respect

William: Perhaps. Our interactions have been up and down and generally we disconnect on the down, but the pattern is that we also reconnect after a time, and try again...it is just the way the dynamics between Tanager and I have happened...

GM: Descriptive:
"Veil"
"The Design of The Universe"
"The Spirit of the Land"

William: From the link;
[Replying to JoeyKnothead in post #58]

In theistic terms, The Heart is not only significant of the organ it is named for, but also - and especially in terms of Mysticism, The Heart refers to the motivating desires of the personality occupying the same body.

Thus, the "hardening of the heart" is about that aspect, re the storyline, as far as can be told.
The Jewish inflection re the storyline is concerned with the idea that supposes the God influences from a position outside of the personalities own perspective and this idea of separation is what brings about such concepts as a god-being interfering/interacting from an outside position, which in turn allows for the idea that the god isn't as good as the story-tellers try to make him out to be, due to how the believers attempt to reconcile the obvious contradictions with their love for such an idea of a Creator-GOD.
This is a type of Stockholm Syndrome as it can be regarded as a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation these ideas of GOD produce within the individual, to varying yet still related degrees.
I suspect the whole purpose of the Jewish [and following-on Abrahamic religions] ideas of GOD was to establish a human hieratical system which largely prevents believer and non-believer alike, from accessing possibly [more likely] truer ideas as to how such a GOD-beings' consciousness actually operates in relation to individual human consciousnesses...

It is wise to find a way in which to circumnavigate such obstacles, rather than settle for these being the criteria to which we all have no choice but to submit to.

Well...I think so anyway. :)

8:16
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Q: What type of "proof" could possibly be provided re subjects which fall outside the material/natural without that proof being material/natural itself?

[Replying to TRANSPONDER in post #105]

This is not an unfamiliar question. Theists often ask 'What evidence would convince you of God'; 'What Sort of evidence would you require?'

Be that as it may, this is not the question I asked.

The question I asked has to do with the demand for proof. You specifically called for proof for anything other than the material/natural, which is why I asked for clarity on your part.

I am not asking "what evidence would convince you of God". I am asking you to explain what proof could possibly be presented which is not material/natural.

I already said what would be required - evidence of a Cosmic Mind in nature.

We have discussed this already and have come to no agreement, because our positions on the question of whether we exist within a creation or not, are different.

Atheists and theists have their established beliefs and stipulations on the matter.

Those who are in neither of those two positions have established no beliefs and accompanying stipulations 'for' or 'against' the question.

The existence of mind, could lend itself as evidence that what is being experienced is a created thing.
The observation of mindful activity has that going for it and it does not influence me what theists or atheists say about their own established conclusions re that because the truth is, they don't know either way.

I accept that [they don't know either way] is true.
That truth, is good enough for me.

Rather than concern myself with filling up the Gap of Ignorance with "God-did-it or It did itself" beliefs, I simply allow for the fact that the question remains unanswered at this stage and accept the Gap of Ignorance for the lack of knowledge that it represents.

That gap is still open but we really do require the evidence to show up and be convincing. Until then, the logical rule is no belief without convincing evidence.

The position of Natural-Neutral is the only position which allows for that to genuinely happen without forcing belief-based stipulations [realistic or otherwise] into the mix - re the question of whether we exist within a creation or not.

For example, any scientist worthy of the title will answer the question "Could reality be a simulation?" with "Possibly."

This is to say, they do not have scorn for the idea or say "until there is evidence of it, we will assume the atheist position"

Not knowing either way means one is Naturally Neutral - which, incidentally, is exactly how scientific process proceeds in regard to the initially unknown.
_________________________________________________

090722
Unity with our Collective Self

SCLx9 + select last LE per shuffle
The Theory of Everything - Inalienable [not subject to being taken away from or given away by the possessor.] - Open - Trying to change the world fails for one simple and unavoidable reason...“everyone else.” - Honest attempts at scrubbing up - The Wisdom of Foresight - Wide - The Shared Word-String List - "Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include 'zero' as representing something real, which is not?"

AP= The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything Points of Reference [=650][Six Five Zero = 158]

158
[Spirit work
Navigational Aids
The solution
Learning to Fly
Misanthropy
Sacred Geometry
Stuff like that...
Phantasmagorical [an exhibition of optical effects and illusions]
Propitious
Clear Your Mind
Try To Relax
Deep Impact Event
One Four Zero
Six Five Zero]

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

10:47

GM: The Metaphysical Universe
GOD
Thread about all things
Pervasive

William: Metaphysical - the essentially metaphysical question of the nature of mind. an empiricist rather than a metaphysical view of law. transcending physical matter or the laws of nature.

GM: Root chakra
"Invite The Bee To Land"

William: From the link;
Wootah: There is nothing in creation that can represent God but everything points to him.

William: If everything points to YHWH as the "first truly invisible God" are these not therefore able to be described as "physical manifestations that people can look at"?

In what way is it wise to compare YHWH with mute physical idols that people can look at, if there are also invisible entities who can - as one biblical writ offers opinion on others - calling these "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ" and adding the idea alongside that - perhaps as a way of instilling the concept as a concrete thing in the minds of any who listen - that it is nothing to marvel about because "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light"...and quite the reason I would say, as to why questions such as "Can anyone give good reason to believe Yahweh is not a demon?" are asked, since both YHWH and Satan are presented equally as "invisible entities" and both appear to be able to present through physical manifestations that people can look at and interact with.

For my part - I consider the Earth Herself to being a god, for she has many of the attributes of a god, but I do not consider Her to being the form of the planet - but rather, the mind therein - and invisible at that [as are all minds] - so wherein can the invisible be seen by the visible, other than through the visible - such as with all minds? Minds cannot be seen unless they are manifested through the visible.
Yet, in Earth being a mindful thing, can we point to Her and declare from this that She "does not represent YHWH" while also declaring that She still points to YHWH?

If not, then your statement "everything points to YHWH" would be untrue...unless in the saying of it, you are meaning something else?

GM: "Without Comparison
Pearl of wisdom"
"GOD became Gods and Goddesses."
Tempting Vision
In The Rabbit Hole
"The Sign On The Door Clearly States The Rules"
[The Earths Moon]
"Does the possibility that being unable to detect something as existing, allow for the right to include zero as representing something real, which is not?"

William: If there is no such thing as "no thing" then "zero" cannot represent "no thing"...it must therefore, represent something...so... Q: What is the thing that zero represents?

GM: "The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything
Behind The Scenery"

William: That is a great way of explaining what Zero represents.
0= "The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything Behind The Scenery"

GM: Everyone: "In space nobody can hear you scream"
Saturn: "Hold my beer..."

William: Yes. "The Music of The Spheres"

GM: Are

William: Arrrr....

GM: "But hey, we can all hope that over time the mainstream view is tending towards the truth. It's certainly a lovely idea"
The Wider Reality:
"When In Doubt - Set It Aside"
The Face of God

William: From the link;
AB: The problem with making nature or biology the foundation of objective morality is that then it justifies the psychopaths or the male lions that kill the other male lions and their offspring just so they can take over the pride. Both are following their nature or biology. At best, I think we can say that morality is part of nature, but that alone does not tell us which morals are good or bad.

William: Q: "What is it about humans which has the ability to comprehend a [supposed] "Perfect World", which is so obviously different from the real world?"

We search for answers...

What have our sciences done to answer this question?

Or is it a matter that our sciences are being used specifically like unto the male lions, suppressing the main herd while they go about sailing into a particular direction they have selected for themselves?

For the herd notes, [for example] that as grandiose as the latest space telescope is - hurtling and unfurling [fully shaded] toward it's destination some million miles out and, simply to peer into the secrets of the past to 'try and understand'...the herd understands that the money could be 'better spent' on creating a perfect world here in the heart of imperfection - so why is that not been done?

Why is the rest of the herd being experimented on and used for that one purpose?

Just so a few lions can have their names recorded for all time?

Is that moral?

_________________________________________________________________

Does it matter, since morals are really human inventions and are not aligned with the actual reality?

And to the Theist who might believe such, I would add a question to that one.

Q: Since this is not the perfect world you imagine, since you are thinking of kingdoms of plenty where this kind of thing cannot take place, why do morals matter hereabouts in this world, when they seem to serve better in these other imagined next level worlds?

For me in the middle, [Natural-Neutral] I am somewhat undecided. I see the potential for humans to actually build a perfect world for themselves - irrespective of the chaos - and see those in the sciences attempting to do that.[through none other than the devices of the Sciences]
Unfortunately - not everyone is in favor of the perfect world envisioned - of the fiction-like story scientists are opening the door to...and so those not in favor are factored out, through invention...just like how the male lions deal with the male off-spring...not with morals but simply through the natural rule of the game-play of this reality...the School of Hard Knocks.

GM:
giphy.gif


William: Is it really that funny?

GM: Fulfilling Human Destiny
"Monkey say monkey do monkey say "throw the pooh"
Perception"
Enqueue [add an item of data awaiting processing, to a queue of such items.]
Religion
"The practice of vipassana [concentration on the body or its sensations, or the insight which this provides.]
Break the glass ceiling"
"The Connection Process
Other Ways of Using Your Lists
Childlike"
Between
Meaningful

William: From the link;
In Gnosticism, Sophia is a feminine figure, analogous to the human soul but also simultaneously one of the feminine aspects of God.
William: I was conversing with Konsciencia just yesterday;
Konsciencia: For example: in my own truth, Lucifer is The Universe, but no one will accept that. So, they go with their own truth of how they see Lucifer. Also, Lucifer is more a Woman in my view! Which is awesome! I know for sure that The Illuminati has those Ancient text that explains what we were, but there's no actual truth.

William: Truth may not be a fundamental aspect of the universe. Relative truth can be useful to the individual for the purpose of assisting the individual with understanding the fundamental nature of this reality [and alternate realities] being experienced.
With Lucifer, the connect is there also in the Sophia mythology - and Lucifer might represent to Sophia, [macro] what Jung's Archetypes represent to us [micro].
Given the mythology surrounding Lucifer, did Lucifer attempt a coup with the purpose of deception in mind?
Such questions cannot be answered in any way which might satisfy the questioner with the truth.
The solution is to always aim for the top as it were - Sophia is the primary Universal Entity re the mythology - Lucifer appears later on. Is Lucifer working with or against Sophia? Is it even possible to work against Sophia? How do such answers to such question help us individuals?
Apparently Sophia has Parents. If so, this adds to the hierarchal structure in that 'there is more to the story than meets the eye of one's understanding.'

We move onwards...

Konsciencia: Yes... I forgot about The Sophia aspect of The Universe. However, I always say that The Universe is more a Woman, than a Man's kingdom. For example: in my view, Lucifer is a Woman (most often.) In other words, God is a Woman. I do feel a peaceful, and Loving Feminine Vibe whenever I conversate with The Universe.

GM: "The picture unfolds like silk in a loom Silhouetted by Diane are the witch and the broom If she is the bride - who is the groom?"
Constructors and tasks
Remember/Memories

William: From the link;
The people behind the greatest leaps in physics - Einstein, Newton, Heisenberg, all had the uncanny ability to see the fundamentals - see the deepest, underlying facts about the world, and from simple statements about reality they built up their incredible theories. Well what if we all had a recipe book for doing exactly this. Well, one might be just around the corner and it’s called Constructor Theory.

GM: Nuclear
Please
It is Found Within The Experience of Self

11:17 [End of Part I]
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

090722

Part II

16:06
Master Plan:
"Don’t hide your Generated Messages"
"IF: there is a Cosmic Mind THEN: Eventually, any species which survives long enough to continue along with the unfolding universe will eventually discover that and invent ways in which to engage."
Hacking through the subconscious
What Are The Chances
"The Home Of The...
William's
The Imagination"
"Yes We Can!"
"Adversity makes strange bedfellows
Unexpected"
Realm of Dreams
"The Patupaiarehe
1ulqC0O.png

Inner child"
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081733#p1081733

William: From the link;
W5ftpHr.png

I have since changed my view, as my understanding is that "Agnostic" is too misunderstood.
My current understanding is this;
iB5bTru.png

William: The Natural-Neutral Default Position

GM: Sober journey into self-realization

William: Better than trying on the Agnostic label which has been through the mill

GM: A terrible milestone

William: Ground into powder....

GM: "We Are All Becoming One
Pure soul"
Mind Games
"Love Heart
Privacy"
Points of Reference
"It is a slippery path of snake-oil."
[We stood side by side while the veils did hide the faces of children now grown
Making Up Stories]
Universal Intelligence Communications Device
"The Number Zero"

William: Signifying "The Astonishing Simplicity of Everything Behind The Scenery"

GM: Being Born
Precise definitions of strategies
Counsel
Konkachila
Between
“You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose”
The Played Piece
Things exist - and do not just exist but exist to be experienced.

William: "These things have been given to me, now what to do with these things..."

GM: Christendom...
"Astral Teachers
Earth Mother"
Disingenuous [not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.]

William: From the link;
Theophile: We see this emphasized in Matthew 19, in Jesus' teaching about the rich man. The rich man already follows the law perfectly! (Including, presumably, the greatest commandment - love). But Jesus is explicit: this is still not enough for him to enter into the kingdom. To do so, to truly live under grace, he needs to give away all that he has and go follow Jesus.

It's not a personal struggle I have or anything like that. It's just the words written down...

William: Words written down are one thing.
Interpretation of words written down are another.

As I pointed out, the story of the rich pious man revealed the mans inner attitude which did not align with his outer pious actions - thus presumption we might have re the mans outward actions based upon what we observe the man doing, is incorrect.
It is safer to presume from the story that the man did not operate sufficiently with love - either for his God or for his fellow human beings.

The man made a claim. He 'did all the things required of him' but biblical Jesus saw through the pretense and got to the point.

William: So the rich man in the story, was being disingenuous...makes perfect sense.

GM: Holographic Universe
Keen
Warm Presence
"Deconstruct The Message"
Perennial [lasting or existing for a long or apparently infinite time; enduring or continually recurring.]

William: Right - like the discussion I am having with Tanager right now regaring the Mandelbrot Set...

Tanager: How does that prove an infinite regression isn’t logically impossible? Your video begins and then progresses forever.

William: If one does a little study on the Set one will discover that the infinite progression can be shown to run opposite [as infinite regression] which signifies that the point where the video begins is the same as the begin/end points which turn up throughout the eternally unfolding.

Tanager: Can you share the reasoning that shows this?

William: Sure - when I come across the video I picked the info up from, I will. From memory, the person showed that by applying the Set formula for the negative numbers, one gets a mirror-image of the Set, 'going the other way'...having written that, it occurred to me I could google something like "Mandelbrot Set negative equation" - there are articles on this you can view for yourself, if you make a similar worded search...

GM: Feelings Perceptions, and Behavior
Flat

William: The link goes to a post I made about Agnosticism being a more reasonable position than Atheism.
Traditionally Agnosticism is seen as a subset of Atheism, and I thought this was just another Atheistic grab-like the claim "all humans are born atheists" et merda...
It seems to me it is better to abandon the label altogether which is why I came up with "Natural-Neutral"...

GM: An Aladdin's cave
"Shallow is Unknown"

16:39
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

[Replying to The Tanager in post #696]

It seems to me like you should be saying Energy is the mindful aspect of GOD which forms the material aspect of GOD into shapes.

At this point I am bouncing around with ideas already established by religious theists in order to get bearings on the differences in beliefs as to how well they hold up to the things we do know about the universe.

One such option being examined is from the Jehovah's Witness religion. As I am attempting with you and your beliefs, I am also attempting to get clarity on their beliefs re this.

So far what I am being informed, is that the JW belief is;

"The Spirit is not God. It emanates FROM God, like power emanates from an electrical facility. The power is not the electrical facility."

There appear to be two theistic beliefs re the nature of Energy;

1. Energy and spirit are distinct things
2. Energy and spirit are the same thing

It was a mistake to add the so-called "third view"; [3. I don’t know which is true]

This has to be rectified, in that it is not a theistic belief and shouldn't have been placed on your "list of views".

To clarify. Which of those two options do you position your belief?

Okay, but you aren’t being neutral in doing so. You have left neutrality via an assumption that “Theism” is true.

Nice try Tanager. Remove [3] from your list and the waters will clear.

One remains neutral simply by not making a shift to either Theism or Atheism.
One can lend and ear to either side without having to wear the burden of being accused of holding and defending the position of either side.

As I wrote;

"Being in the Natural Neutral position helps as it eliminates belief or lack of belief and simply accepts 'we don't know' while acknowledging that it is still worthwhile to - at least - attempt to find out..."

And on that point, I gave you information re the Mandelbrot Set being shown to display infinite regression and infinite progression. The reasoning has already been 'laid out'. Your thoughts on it [even as a concept unsighted] in regard to my own [already mentioned] are welcome.
____________________________________________________________________

100722
Precise definitions of strategies

SCLx10 + select last LE per shuffle
“The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched — they must be felt with the heart” - True happiness - I AM WE ARE - Fast - Rationality - Blood Sacrifice - Freeing the soul -
- Everything Is Unique - Do a begin/end...

AP= One's thoughts I Will [= 236]
236
[Soul Carrier Memories
Universal Intelligence
Cyborg Anthropology
Copper wire and glass beads
Strength is required
One's thoughts I Will]

RSP = SCLx2 + P&P + re

05:39

GM: Do a begin/end...[B&E]

William: Okay...

[B&E throughout =GM]

GM: One's thoughts Sea The Deeper Self Purpose To what end exactly?

William: I do not know. How deep is infinity that an end can be measured? Isn't that what the Mandelbrot Set visually displays? There are begin/end points but the flow is infinity - regressive and progressive and neither contradicting the other.

GM: Cleanliness Discernment

William: I think so too...

GM: Victim/Vampire Energy Exchange All at sea

William: [Perplexed, bewildered, as in She was all at sea in these new surroundings. This idiom transfers the condition of a vessel that has lost its bearings to the human mind.]
Yes - I see what you are saying there. V/V Energy feeds itself on itself - ouroboros-like...which of course is also how infinity works re the Mandelbrot Set visuals.
However, the V/V exchange seeks to use the process as a means of staying around forever...not sure that is the best way to spend forever...it is unappealing to me...

GM: A dish fit for the gods... Description "Instant Manifestation"

William: We get what we ask for, regardless of how we use the energy....

GM: :)

William: :)

GM: The Number One Nine Two

William: So far I have these entries under that value, on my N2N list;

[Smoke and Mirrors
Quantum Presence
Merging with the data
Integral Network
Responsibility
Tempting Vision
The Way of the Shaman
Moderator Comment
Childhood Nightmares
Atheists crack me up.]

GM: It is a mystery which must be solved that the Human becomes true.

William: Merging with the data
[Integral Network]
[Responsibility]
"The Way of the Shaman" then...


GM: The Physical Universe The rich world of conscious experience Fun...Work...But Fun Nonetheless

William: I am trying to see it that way...it isn't easy...

GM: Actions speak louder than words
"The problem - as I understand it – is in how humans general think about ‘God’ and project their own sense of self into the model they each come to accept as the real thing."

William: I said that. As it is right now, if I 'see' GOD as 'consciousness' and re this universe, as "The Universal Consciousness" or "Cosmic Mind" - The Mind behind the creative unfolding of the universe...my 'sense of self' - regarding that - is that;

I am loath to embrace the idea of enduring this universe forever...due to the aspect of entropy...it would be no fun hanging around forever once 'things' dissipated because things are what allow for fun to be had.
However, as I have been learning through this GM process - specifically to do with Isaac Asimov's short story "[The Last Question]" - AND re the visual evidence of the Mandelbrot Set once the energy has dissipated through entropy, The Cosmic Mind simply engages with the Quantum field [The Matter] and creates a new 'thing-of-a-universe'.
That in itself would be fun...

GM: Unequal

William: Uniqueness

GM: Persevere "May all your madventures be fun."

William: Indeed. However, some would argue that anything involving suffering isn't 'fun'.

GM: The evidence is too strong, to believe there is no intelligent mind involved as part of the universes structure.

William: Agreed. But what about the Cosmic Mind's idea of "Fun" re "Suffering"?

GM: "Ghost Dance"

William: Like a ships wake? Such will be left behind...eventually?

GM: The Dark Night of The Soul Adjusted Reality

William: So when I argued...
Therefore, we know that when someone say's "time will tick on forever because the universe will go on forever", they are superimposing a non-fundamental onto a fundamental. Whether proclaimers recognize this is what is occurring, or not, such a saying is not strictly true, but simply type of romantic/symbolic representation clinging onto the wake of the fundamental...wanting to be part of it forever.

William:..."Time" is meaningful only in the context of what is moved, rather than what is doing the moving?

GM: The Harmless Enough Agenda Crowd ...Childlike

William: Understanding based upon being not being fully informed?

GM: Beckoning Positivity
The Navigator Can Read Maps.
Military Longing Righty Oh!

William: As in "Salute and get to it" ?

GM: It can be crazy and true at the same time

William: Annoyingly so.

GM: Apotheosis

William: The highest point in the development of something; a culmination or climax. the elevation of someone to divine status.

GM: Story-Tellers Mind Games A countenance more in sorrow than in anger...
Separation https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070045#p1070045

William: From the link;
Clownboat: Tricking people for profit surely isn't kind though.

William: Humans are apparently not naturally inclined to kindness.

Diogenes: I disagree. Tho' we have our moments of unkindness, in general all healthy humans value kindness. Our very lives depend on it. We evolved, we survived because we were kind to each other - we cooperated. It is in our self interest to be kind and cooperate. Even the 'lower' mammals are kind to each other and have a sense of reciprocal fairness. We didn't need any particular religion or 'savior' to teach us this. We know it. Even the animals do.

We even have inter species friendships. We love and our kind to our pets. They are loyal and kind to us.

William: If it is natural for humans to be kind and therefore my comment that "humans are apparently not naturally inclined to kindness" is untrue, what unnatural thing compels humans to be unkind?

Or could it be that both states are natural enough, depending upon circumstance and individuals simple adopt the best way they can find as a means of being able to sustain the governing emotions required for either state?

Understanding that the individuate position most humans are born to experience, the underlying motivation is intentionally selfish because recognition of the importance of the self becomes the initial propellent for all subsequent actions employed.

In that, it doesn't matter how one chooses to observe Jesus - as an historical image more human than the biblical Jesus - or how the bible images him - Socrates, Plato, Gandhi, Paul, David, Abraham or Glen - got their motivation for kindness from the same source - as we all do, when unkindness is dropped from our programs.

GM: "We are not orphaned - we are authored"
Make Story

William: The link is to an earlier post - where Tanager and I are in the initial stages of teasing out the specifics of the different beliefs involved with A Cosmic Mind [aka GOD] and the way in which that mind creates 'things' - from within itself or from outside of itself...our discussion is ongoing...

GM: Bonding Entities of Particular Belief Systems
Becoming whole

William: I remain upon minded re that...
7:20
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: For me it seems pointless trying to resurrect a position to its former status.

AB: That may be the case but we still need a position that opposes or that's neutral in relation to the two extremes.

William: I doubt there will be any formal position.
It is better to recognize the function of the position in relation to theism and atheism, than to waste effort on trying to resurrect a failed attempt to do this with Agnosticism.

Obviously at some point after the introduction of Agnosticism, Atheism - up to its normal tricks - hijacked the position by claiming the position was a subset of Atheism - and referring to agnostics as 'weak atheists'.

Further to that, my observations are that both theists and atheists assume that the only two positions one can have on the question of whether we exist within a creation is 'yes' or 'no' and 'maybe' is not really a position on the question at all. One either believes or one does not believe. "Maybe' is 'wishy-washy'.

AB: Perhaps I'm being too optimistic but I would like to see the original agnosticism become the common usage.

William: Call me a realist because I think that ship has sailed.
Furthermore, how many folk do you see around this forum, referring to themselves as Agnostic and beating the drums of solidarity?

AB: Don't get me wrong, modern agnostics have a lot in common with the agnosticism that Huxley advocated for, but they do limit themselves when or if they don't go beyond their "I don't know" position.

William: Where are these 'modern agnostics'?

"I don't know" is the most honest reply to the question .

Q: Do we exist within a creation?"

Theist: I have belief that we do exist within a creation.

Atheist: I lack belief that we do exist within a creation.

Natural Neutral: I don't know and refuse to form belief or lack of belief as belief or non-belief provides me with no compelling answer.
_____________________________________

110722
Move beyond the human condition

SCLx7 + select last LE per shuffle
You Tube - "Like being pushed out from a stinky hole, can have one develop a bad self-complex" - The Next Step - To Add to That - "From what I am seeing re the data , it shows clearly that an underlying intelligence operates quietly in the background of the Universes Structure" - Until "Christ Returns" - Heart advice

AP= "Well even the most ugly of us have a Father." :) [in house joke] - [=419]

419
[What I also know is that numbers don't lie.
Might even cause Dad to crack a smile...who knows! :)
"Well even the most ugly of us have a Father." :) ]

RSP = SCLx1 B&E

7:10

GM: Changing The Rules Your Dream Team The non-Judgmental Algorithm Victim/Vampire Energy Exchange The Corporate Elite Loving-kindness The Sub Hierarchy Navigational Aids

William: As I understand it, "Corporate Elite" signifies "The individuals brain-consciousness" whereas "The Sub Hierarchy" is indicative of "The individuals brain-sub consciousness"...this has to do with such notions as "Intuition" and "Morality" and the deeper [less understood and less acknowledged] things of the mind in general

GM: [368]
"Sometimes it just looks like rain"
[Changes mind when truth is presented]
Less understood and less acknowledged

William: The "Power-Station Concept"

GM: From the link;
Spirit is not God. It emanates FROM God, like power emanates from an electrical facility. The power is not the electrical facility.
GM: What Is Found Here?

William: The analogy makes GOD a Machine...

GM: Cycle Chance, "That is Correct"

William: If it were, that makes the physical universe created from the Energy, 'the machine' because that is the only machinery we see.
This in turn makes the "Creates Itself Fallacy" questionable...which is why GOD is conveniently placed outside of the universe.
Even so - this make GOD a machine creating a machine...
Then we have the atheist foot in the door asking "what created the GOD machine?" and reminding us of the "absurdity of infinite regression" [while infinite progression remains strangely valid]
"Talk to The Hand." :D

GM: Talk to The Hand...
That one might not have need of, does not negate that confidence cannot be gained through such device, with others.

William: What can I say...I have been using this GM process practically every day for a few months already, and 'it works' whatever 'it' is...

GM: The Vector Symbol Use Heart
The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing...
The House of Science
Why this oft taboo subject needs to be understood in some less sweep-under-the-carpet way

William: The House of Science is busy trying to get a foothold on the stars...the mind is useful to that end, but is largely ignored on account that Science is not useful in relation to invisible realities...one has to see before one can appreciate...
Yet all are using this invisible resource as a means of understanding the physical universe...the mind is treated as a secondary emergent property and of no fundamental connection with Energy or Matter....with the actual physical universe...with 'Reality'.

GM: The evidence supports the idea that Theism is the better position for a human to place themselves.
Visible Light Girl "Couldn’t we do something about it..."

William: Don't think I haven't noticed on occasions, you calling me that...

GM: A measured step

William: Sure - What else am I to do with the life I have? Try to nut out how humans could steer the rudder on the ship being sailed...

GM: Time for Soul to Drive

William: How is this to be accomplished, world-wide?

GM: Get The Ball Rolling

William: Like "Step One:..." [131]
[Mother Earth
Intuition
Development
The Power Of...
Those Who Can
Learn How to
The Bidden Zone
Anticipation
The Old Soul
Not a Problem!
Heuristics [mental shortcuts that allows people to solve problems and make judgments quickly and efficiently. ]
Google Deep mind
Solipsism [the view or theory that the self is all that can be known to exist.]
Anchors aweigh
He Who Waits
Moon energy
Narcissist
Perseverance
Golden nugget
Active dreaming
Connections
Becoming whole
The Garden of Eden
The Squeeze
From the link
Like "Step One:..."]

GM: Present over perfect The Number One Nine Two

William:
[Quantum Presence
Merging with the data
Integral Network
Responsibility
Tempting Vision
The Way of the Shaman]

GM: Why is this a Requirement?

William: Because it appears to fit with the description "How to fix the world" as - possibly - a genuine recipe..."do this, get that..." The tools to achieve this have been made available...how to convince all the theists and atheists is the question...

GM: Free your soul The Realm of Judgement
"When our progressive movements are strong, they lead toward an exciting, irresistible vision for the future where all of us thrive"
Being aware of Human Control Dramas

William: Such as how theists and atheists consider the neutral position as wishy-washy and besides the point...

GM: 10 Insights You are neutral

William: Again with the link to a conversation between Tanager and I where we are initial teasing out the particulars re "Is there an outside of GOD?"...
More recently, Tanager has mentioned my saying I am in a Natural-Neutral position...

William: Energy and QF refers to the nature of the universe, thus the "Natural" part.

Re the question "Do we exist within a creation?", one remains neutral until such a time as nature reveals for certain, either way, thus the "Neutral" part

Tanager: I don’t see how that’s remaining neutral.

GM: Signs Contact With
"Is it a mindless chaotic process which just happens to consistently appear coherent, no matter what random system we use in order to select the word-strings which generate the message?"
God/Source/Home

William: One leads to the other...
Hypnagogic experience
Sharing Your Love
The Spirit of the Land
A Space Without A Time...
All Things Are In Order
You Are Watched Over
Become more expansive
Emotional awareness
Underdetermination
One leads to the other...

GM: Move On Start where you are
No Country For Old Men Observant

William: "If the rule you followed....brought you to this...of what use was the rule?"
[The human tendency to see signals in the noise, even when there is only noise.]
The use of the rule is determined by the value the rule proves to be...

GM: The "All Matey"
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077104#p1077104

William: I was thinking about JK's position. He remains firmly atheist because he see atheism as a platform for fighting against religious morality using social Law to impose Christian Morals upon atheists and non-Christians ...
From the link;
JoeyKnothead: The "initial state" seems to be out of the reach of being described in any accurate or meaningful manner.

William: In that, it is no more or less better than the idea of an exclamation "let there be light" from an Intelligent Source being the Initial State.

JoeyKnothead: Plenty fair. Though one's gotta ponder what did it that thinking.

William: That is a journey in itself and provides me with lifetime of interesting subjective experience re my own way of interreacting with and finding out about such a thinker...
You mention what "Stokes That Fire" - it boils down to the so-called "Problem of Evil" which this morning I was thinking is like unto the '"Problem of Unicorns".
Yes. "Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God" " is a "problem" due largely to the historical content of human interaction with this idea of "GOD" which has a poor record among the general populace, and can be attributed with some horrific milestones along the road-side of human history.
It is understandable that folk want to avoid that path in particular, given its track record.

However, full avoidance is impractical, unwise and unsustainable...and cannot really be avoided as long as consciousness exists in the human form and does what it does in whatever 'name' it is doing it.
"GOD" in essence is like unto a mirror-image of the formless ghost we call "Consciousness" and acts out as it sees fit, through biological instruments ... and it cannot be completely exorcised from the mathematical equations, even if it is only represented as "Zero". The rest of the Math cannot be done without that 'non-number'.
"Zero" does not actually represent "nothing" because "nothing" does not exist and so cannot be represented.
Therefore, "Zero" must have to represent something which does exist but is largely unseen - and "Consciousness" fits that description.
"Consciousness" = "Zero", mathematically speaking.

GM: God Eat Data Heal Cub

William: Through 'feedback'.
That is what this GM process is exhibiting

GM: Instant Though "the Serpent rules the Shadow"
[Ancient Grey Entity]

William: "Well even the most ugly of us have a Father." :D

GM: The Great White Brotherhood You will overcome
Semiotics [the study of signs and symbols and their use or interpretation.] Spiritual Activism https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1070402#p1070402

William: From the link;
William: What has been established beyond reasonable doubt, it that it is illogical that "something that is, derived from something that isn't", which firmly places the idea of a Creator/Creation as primary for genuine and sustained consideration.

Brunumb: What hasn't been established is what preexisted this iteration of matter/energy that we refer to as the universe.

William: Scientists are working on finding this out. IF they are correct about the infinitesimally small object which exploded and produced what we currently are experiencing as a stage in the universes unfolding, THEN at least we can identify said object as "The Seed of Origin"

What, if anything pre-existed that - is beyond our current ability to know.

Brunumb: If it was not 'nothing' and we know nothing about it, then how can we deduce that it involved some sort of mindful creator?


William: Easily enough. We know that mind is integrated with matter. Thus we have clear evidence that a mindful creator is involved, even if that creator-mind is unfolding from the Seed of Origin which birthed the universe we are witnessing through experience.
Being that it has emerged since the germination {Big Bang} it has had a great amount of time in which to learn to effect the matter to whatever it wills, even to the point of doing so here on this planet, as we ourself bear witness, even to the degree that we refer to that as "reality".

Brunumb: One can stick that on the table for consideration but there is nowhere to go after that.

William: There is always somewhere to go. Testing it out for starters.
If:
There is a mind behind creation
THEN:
We ought be able to communicate with it, using whatever physical devices we can create in order to do so.

Brunumb: It's all just imaginative speculation.

William: How do you know that? Or are you imagining that is all that it is?

Brunumb: When you look at this universe and everything within it, it is hard to imagine it all arising from some sort of mindful creator as far as I am concerned.

William: That is very understandable. However, even being that it is hard to imagine, it is not impossible. I haven't had any insurmountable problem in at least subjectively verifying It exists, or finding ways in which to communicate with It.

Brunumb: Extend that into the domain of the Christian creator God, then it all even becomes an absurdity.

William: As came up recently in my communion with said Mind -
GM: Where is Truth?
We Groove Together
Recovery
The resistance is generally traceable to the theistic approach of religionizing said intelligent mind.
William: What is noticeable about theism - even where it has branched into religionism - is that this is a type of means of leaving a trail in ones wake, and the trail itself shows efforts of The Mind to engage with human minds for the purpose of connecting - but often religious leaders have used this as a means of securing station/position within hierarchal structures which require said leaders to be the middle-person between The Mind and the individual - something easily enough achieved since the individual can be unsure of themselves and even afraid of doing that, so they willingly allow for the medium to act as go-between...which more often than not leads to little to no meaningful connection at all.

This also occurs in theistic non-religious structures - mostly because individuals doubt themselves sincere and honest enough to drop the medium and connect in a self-responsible manner.

Even so, I write that as an observation rather than a judgement. The Mind is aware that it is a scary thing for individuate human minds to willingly do, and while ideally if everyone did do it, much good could be accomplished, that most do not do it, does not affect the agenda of said Mind.

8:39
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

otseng: I mentioned before we cannot impose our modern standards on the Bible. Likewise, we shouldn't impose our modern view of cosmology on others and look down on how earlier cultures viewed the cosmos. As CS Lewis termed it, that would be chronological snobbery.

Finding out how ancient cultures view the heavens is a fairly large topic. In fact, it's an entire discipline in itself.

[Replying to otseng in post #1103]

I think this ties in with modern knowledge re the way things were said can be aligned with the way things have since proven to be.

Even in modern times, there is tendency to describe things from the subjective center of consciousness...from which all else flows around about.

Even that we do not know if consciousness has such a center - the only thing matching the concept, is the Self.

But what is the Self, that we dare proclaim it the center of everything?

If we call it "GOD" we blaspheme, for there is only One GOD and you and I are not IT, according to the teachings of...

:?:

Is there a center to every object in this universe?

Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good;
his love endures forever.
Let Israel say:
His love endures forever.”
Let the house of Aaron say:
“His love endures forever.”
Let those who fear the Lord say:
“His love endures forever.”
When hard pressed, I cried to the Lord;
he brought me into a spacious place.
The Lord is with me; I will not be afraid.
What can mere mortals do to me?
The Lord is with me; he is my helper.
I look in triumph on my enemies.
It is better to take refuge in the Lord
than to trust in humans.
It is better to take refuge in the Lord
than to trust in princes.

______________________

120722
Human Imagination Has Consequences

SCLx13 + select last LE per shuffle
What is the meaning of life? - Putting My Finger On It - Energy - Message Generator System of Random Selection of Word-Strings - I Suppose That It Is Possible - A Meeting Place - Jesus - Validation - http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13761868&postcount=918 [as long as GMs are coherent, they can be interpreted] - The Nature of The Mind - Controlled by fear - Breasts - Science and Spirituality

William: Perhaps backwards or forwards doesn't matter

AP= A new Paradigm has arisen whereby folk can drop the idea of being a 'true Christian' and simply be a True Human. [nine two five = 142]

[142]
[Communicating
Nurturing
Copper snakes
Soul Has an Agenda
New Years Eve
Source Sync
Get Comfortable
Redefine Oneself
Don’t fall asleep
Fearlessness
Self-discipline
The Ishango bone
Post ignored
Forty Two
Madventures]

RSP = SCLx1 B&E

8:15

GM: In The Team Of The Collective Research into the Phenomenology of the Self

William: an approach that concentrates on the study of consciousness and the objects of direct experience.
This has to do with a recent post I made;



GM: From the link;

onewithhim: Of course the Spirit is not God. It emanates FROM God, like power emanates from an electrical facility. The power is not the electrical facility.

William: So - what you may be attempting to convey, is that the facility which creates the Energy is GOD, but the Energy itself is not GOD?

The Energy itself is NOT intelligent, but the Facility which produces the Energy IS, and is GOD?

onewithhim: Yes.


William: That is like unto the Star Wars universe where The Force can be integrated with the individuals consciousness and used for both 'dark-side' and 'light-side' activity.

The Power-Station analogy doesn't exclude The Force from originating from a mechanistic device. [Power Station]

The device is simply hidden and as a Power Station it requires being accounted for as to how it came to be built.

We have the atheist foot in the door asking "what created the GOD machine?" and reminding us of the "absurdity of infinite regression" [while infinite progression remains strangely valid]

Isaac Asimov summed it up succinctly with his fireside telling of it ... The Last Question

Consciousness created The Machinery.

For some reason, Consciousness is able to effect the Quantum Field and through the vibrations of this interaction, Energy is created and form with function is manifested.

The "function" aspect is solely the dominion of Consciousness.

In that, the equation;

0 ‽ E & ∴ ‽ F c̅ QM [Consciousness Creates Energy And Thereby Creates Functional Form With Quantum Matter

0 ‽ F c̅ E + 0 [Consciousness Creates Functional Form With Energy and Consciousness]

Q: How is Energy produced by Consciousness? [What is the fundamental nature of Energy?]

GM: The curating is done when I am taking my first baby steps and learning to say "dada" and "mama" and after uttering those sounds show - at least that I am able to do that - so the next level entry is made available to me, and I learn how to shape the sounds I can make, following codes which have been around since long before my own arrival on this planet, to what the data signifies, that is information I am interested in.


William: When I wrote that, it was in coming to the realization of what it is we humans have to work with - language...and how language influences thought...

GM: "This Translates To That."

William: Yes...

GM: Fly Without A Machine For Solving Problems

William: Yes - fly without wings...something thoughts enable us to experience...within the vast realm of imagination...

GM: T-Shirts Taking root

William: I goggled that and got this;
zvnDYpE.png


GM: Root of evil

William: Okay - I got this;
wwDp49j.png


GM: "Life is my predestiny - Providence is God to me" True happiness Taciturn [reserved or uncommunicative in speech; saying little.] Light is information

William: Yes - just not verbal in nature...

GM: Contentment "It is a good sign when Joey Knothead cannot argue against the evidence you present"

William: Yes. JK has a great mind to run things by...

GM: Universal Objectives You Are All Loveable...
Spiritual path Dysfunctional Atman Important Like mindful nests with eggs in 'em

William: Atman- the spiritual life principle of the universe, especially when regarded as immanent in the individual's real self.

GM: Beyond a shadow of a doubt
Stay Present *Nods* In The Light Of The Truth

William: *Nods*


8:35
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Transponder: I'n not even going to debate the context of what you meant. If you don't even believe there to be a Cosmic Mind or a credible case for it, what are we even discussing? There is no valid evidencer or case other than an undisproven far -fetched possibility.

William: For my part, I am discussing the known existence of mind relating to matter, and how that can be extended to the possibility of the whole cosmos being mindful - because - if the parts are seen to operate mindfully there is no reason I can think of as to why the whole cannot also be seen to be mindful.

Transponder: Skepticism is validated logically without any need for discussion.

William: That explains adequately why the interaction between you and I is not "discussion". You make a claim regarding what I said, I ask you to validate the claim, you responded with what you thought was validation, I point out your faulty reasoning re that, and you react as if I am the one at fault.

Prior to that - in some other interaction we had, you brought up and then mocked the idea of "the music of the spheres".
I responded by linking you to evidence supporting this notion, and you couldn't even bring yourself to acknowledge the correction.

Were I do agree with you is that it has become most obvious that there is no discussion to be had between you and I.
___________________

130722
One Language Intelligent Network

SCLx11 + select last LE per shuffle
A Pragmatic Realization Precipitated In Ones Mind - Enqueue [add (an item of data awaiting processing) to a queue of such items.] - Adroit [clever and skilful] - Not a Problem! - Everything is a Message - Of Your Thoughts - Arrival - Talk - Trustworthy - Vocal Chords - The simplest explanations for why we are here and what we are doing

AP= Another Mind Open [=171]

[171]
[When Done Say “Done”
Suppression
Changing The Rules
Another Mind Open
Source Reality
The Olympic games
The human interface
Three-dimensional
Fireside Metaphor
Mainstream Science
Go with the Flow
Respect others
True happiness
Inner Strength]

RSP = SCLx1 B&E + P&P + N2N + LE Inputs New [LEIN]

7:16

GM: Another Mind Open Mutual Dutiful Expression A Meeting Place
Deep Space
Strange
Great Humour and Enjoyment
Frequencies
Musing On The Mother [Act I]
All The Theories Regarding "The Gods"
We don't know enough to close any door and leave those rooms unexplored...

William: Sure. Even the whales will hunt out and destroy the nightmares of the deep...facing our fears is simply a necessary step in the experience of this universe...laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...

GM: [N2N]
Laugh in the face of death
No Doubt about It
[Livingstone Hall
Well Its A Start]
We Are All Becoming One
Stay the course
[The Garden Story
The Great Unwashed]
[Spirituality
Psychic powers
Make a list for that]
Arm up - Fight battle

William: [LEIN]
The Dizzying Heights of Intellectually Honest Conversations
Tabula Rasa
Oops.....
Laugh in the face of death
"Funny"

GM: [N2N]
Laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...
It is consciousness behaving as consciousness behaves.
The idea of nothing is non-relevant to the fact of something.
...it is part of the recipe of a full authentic human experience...
Information doesn't only describe nature - it is nature

William: [LEIN]
[To The Point
Merging with the data
Joining The Main Egregore]
Couple
Laugh in the face of death...and perhaps death laughs along with you...
Understand few reach self awareness]
[Inspiration
Meat For The Table]

GM: [Everything is an expression of GOD
The Establishment]
"The ride is wild"
~You are a dream gone real You’ve got exactly what it takes to make an old wound heal You tied the knot - then you let it slip Now we both know what it feels like to find a place to fit~
The Natural-Neutral Default Position
Phosphenes [a sensation of a ring or spot of light produced by pressure on the eyeball or direct stimulation of the visual system other than by light.]
[The Truth
Well defined yet scantily supported opinion]
Gnosticism
It brought a tear to the eye of my heart.


William: From the link;
Lyrics:
[Verse 1]
When you’re sad and when you’re lonely
And you haven’t got a friend
Just remember that death is not the end
And all that you’ve held sacred
Falls down and does not mend
Just remember that death is not the end
Not the end, not the end
Just remember that death is not the end

[Verse 2]
When you’re standing at the crossroads
That you cannot comprehend
Just remember that death is not the end
And all your dreams have vanished
And you don’t know what’s up the bend
Just remember that death is not the end
Not the end, not the end
Just remember that death is not the end

[Verse 3]
When the storm clouds gather ’round you
And heavy rains descend
Just remember that death is not the end
And there’s no one there to comfort you
With a helping hand to lend
Just remember that death is not the end
Not the end, not the end
Just remember that death is not the end

[Bridge]
Oh, the tree of life is growing
Where the spirit never dies
And the bright light of salvation shines
In dark and empty skies

[Verse 4]
When the cities are on fire
With the burning flesh of men
Just remember that death is not the end
And you search in vain to find
Just one law-abiding citizen
Just remember that death is not the end
Not the end, not the end
Just remember that death is not the end

William: [Listens to the whole song while reading lyrics]
I cannot say enough about the blessing Bob brings into this world....
The Mother is his Muse... :)

GM: The Singularity
Q: How does one hide a Cosmic Mind? A: Within apparent imperfection...
[Overseeing Director of Operations on Earth
Like Unto Ghidrah - many heads one beast...
Who Am I]
Contentious [causing or likely to cause an argument; controversial.]
You Are
Inclinations

William: From the link;
One could even be sad about such shenanigans until one realizes the futility of feeling sorry for those who hide from truth by declaring something to be true which has never been proven true.

Their destinies await them, be these rewards in heaven, or inheriting the game play on Earth.

Forever marooned upon an Island in the midst of an ocean they will never be permitted to have access to....while remaining blissfully unaware of the true nature of their internment and praising YHWH for their good fortune.

William: Yep. That sure is contentious....

GM: Cataphatic [(of knowledge of God) obtained through defining God with positive statements.]
"Learning To Fly"
"Lack of empathy"
"What Does It Mean?"
"What Is The Point?"

William: Learning to Fly
Spirit work
Navigational Aids
The solution
Sacred Geometry
Stuff like that...
Phantasmagorical [an exhibition of optical effects and illusions. ]
Propitious [ giving or indicating a good chance of success; favourable.] Clear Your Mind
Try To Relax
Deep Impact Event

'Lack of empathy'
Astral Guides
Etched mirror
Healing The Beast
Contact With
Satisfaction
Small Steps
Divine Sound
Fingerprint
A rock and a hard place
Balance of power
Mindfulness
In the moment
Heaven on Earth

What Does It Mean?
In the Era of Light
Sort It Out
Equal System
Astonishment
Impressionable
Christmas Time
What Fun We Have!
Get The Picture
Lifting Our Game
Walking the walk
Contemplation

What Is The Point?
Heroes and Villains
Break the glass ceiling
All is as is should be
A fish out of water
The Divine Darkness
Coming From QueenBee
The science of can and can't

GM: Transforming The Anger Energy
Test the waters
Gematria [a Kabbalistic method of interpreting the Hebrew scriptures by computing the numerical value of words, based on the values of their constituent letters.]

William: From the link;
William: It is no doubt helpful for biological critters to have any chance of surviving within the PU to invent morals which assist with that process.
However, in order to accept the premise you offer, one would have to say that morals were not invented but discovered. One would have to assign human characteristics to the PU. Do you think that the PU is therefore self aware and has a sense of morality?

You seem to be saying that is the case, where you wrote;

PK: Remember, I'm coming into this as someone who does not see this morality and it would make me happier than a mafly in May to say they're making it up and it doesn't exist. But I've gotten hold of enough colour palettes and had enough similar answers from people who are not comparing notes (different cultures, even) that I'm forced to say it does exist. I would love it if they each said a different colour and I could laugh them off. But they don't. There is something there, something real, that they are seeing and I do not see.

William: "Where" is this seemingly unconnected cultural exhibition sourced, if not from the mind of the PU itself?

GM: Most folk need moderating.

William: We all seem to need moderating for as long as it takes for us to learn how to moderate our Self...according to the rules on the door...[please read before entering] ;)

GM: Learned
"Any God-Mind claiming to be responsible for human beings existing, is going to have problems to deal with re that"
What science [re materialism] does, is give cause for humans to celebrate the intelligence of consciousness while at the same time ignoring the hard problem of consciousness that this type of science has created for its supporters.
[Free! Free! Free!
RPDK [Random pg dn key]
Finding the light]
Who Knows!
[EZPZ
Go with the Flow
Balance of power
Opinion
Intuit]
Narrative warfare
Be
"Even in the very quintessence of the individual."
Joy


William: Remarkably so, yes.
Transponders approach is less inviting re 'discussion'. The GM process is far more the type of communication I am keen to follow through with. There is always the way in which such discussion can be had - even that the discussion becomes internal...strictly of the mind...no supposed "skepticism" to keep it at bay...

GM: Be Aware
"Out of The Shadow Lands"
Wild freedom
[Sovereign
Technique of Exchange
Each
Go within
Stop. Listen. Observe.]
[Glad One Asked
Synchronicity and the Holographic Universe]
[Nonetheless
Duality/Dualities Children
Study
Those Who Can
Regimented
Chakras
Ordinary]
Idiosyncratic [peculiar or individual.]
Fair Dinkum
"A dish fit for the gods"
[Joyful
Suckling on The Mother]
"Stuff Happens"
[Lifting Our Game
Precise definitions of strategies
The Moment
Training the mind]
A riddle wrapped up in an enigma
Divine grace
For anyone to say otherwise, would be unwise in the face of such evidence
Anchors aweigh!


William: Rather than 'keep it at bay'... :) Aye Captain!

GM: [The Four Human Power Houses]
"Use Mind
New Shifts In Thinking
Crystal clear
Wonderful!
The path to enlightenment"
The Spirit of the Land
Super-information medium

William: From the link;
Diogenes Evolution has never seemed crazy to me. Long before I studied it, as a five year old at the zoo I noticed the strong resemblance of apes to people (which should not have been surprising since people are apes).

William: I think that the eye sees what it wants to see, rather than what is actually there under the flesh and bone of it all - simply because - until the eye sees - it goes along with what available information there is, but even when the information is made available, the self-identity prior to the information being revealed has a difficult time of it in changing ones understand of ones self.

So - on the surface the similarities between apes and humans is undeniable, but what is also undeniable are the vast differences which make the similarities fundamentally different and therefore quiet the absurd thing to be equating ones self with.

GM: Emotional awareness
https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1077104#p1077104

William: From the link;
GM: Dualic Energies
[For anyone to say otherwise, would be unwise in the face of such evidence]
"Look Closely
Dualic Energies
I Am Hearing You
Free your soul"
[Side Splittingly Funny
Beyond a shadow of a doubt]
Love Takes One For The Team
Consider This
Conspicuous [clearly visible. attracting notice or attention.]

[Donald Hoffman Proves That We Live in a Simulation]
"Leave room for nature"

William: Yes - there is a tremendously funny side to all this, I agree. Yet I have to acknowledge the sadness I feel when I think about how science could be used to create a sturdy platform in which we then can launch off of from...and yes - given the 'rock and hard place' re the human drama, there looks - on the surface - to have been no other way in which to do what has and is being done.
What science [re materialism] does, is give cause for humans to celebrate the intelligence of consciousness while at the same time ignoring the hard problem of consciousness that this type of science has created for its supporters.

GM: [Mothers Milk
"The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD"
Emotion]
Understanding the mind behind creation which is commonly referred to as "God"
Stoke That Fire
[In The Team of the Collective]

GM: Unconscious Mind Inertia
Pertinent [relevant or applicable to a particular matter; apposite.]

8:15
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

Because, combining the two [religion and aliens] one can read in such pre-television stories, similar testimony.
[Replying to Difflugia in post #31]

How similar is "similar?"

Very. The imagery may be different, but the subject matter is - overall - similar.

You've asserted that the experience "cannot" be the brain reworking something that's already been seen, but haven't justified why anyone should think that's true.

I haven't asserted that at all. The brain obviously has something to do with the process, but to what degree isn't really know because it isn't really well understood. Certainly not as well understood as some individuals assert, from their various positions of belief on such matters.

You've asserted "similar testimony," but unless "similar" includes things like alien greys and flying saucers, you're just making the case that human brains worked the same way then as they do now, not that the supernatural is real.

Who asserted 'supernatural'? I myself avoid using the word.

Instead of "aliens", one has gods/angels/demons/religious mythological icons...

Yes. When the brain gets weird, people frame their experiences within a familiar fantastic idiom.

What we know about the brain is that it - in all cases - does not see the world as it fundamentally is, and inserts interpretations of what it is experiencing [through its nervous system] into the consciousness connected to that.

The consciousness connected to that, has started become aware of this process and the connotations therein. The brain is just telling it like it believes it is experiencing it [reality] and consciousness just eats it up as if it were the truth...things are changing...

GM: [The Truth
Well defined yet scantily supported opinion]
{SOURCE}

We [rightfully] question what the brain tells us about the experiential reality.

The Santa Clause analogy isn't useful in this regard as we are only speaking about gifts left behind - which can be explained - we are not talking about folk experiencing and engaging with Santa. We are not even talking about a warm fuzzy joyous thing...

It's absolutely apt.

I am not convinced.

Dr. Clancy explains through the course of the book commonalities between subjects and presents known psychological phenomena as explanations. So far, you've simply denied them. Personal incredulity is the same evidence that I presented for Santa Claus.

I have not denied anything. I have pointed out that the analogy of Santa Claus is not what appears is being implied by Dr. Clancy. Are you saying that in her book she makes this analogy herself?

Even if she does, the analogy is based upon the idea that the brain creates the mind, which is something that has not been established as anything other than well defined, yet scantily supported opinion.

From my own experiences and subsequent study, I lean toward Jung relating such experienced imagery to what he referred to as the Archetypes...

Depending on how you read Jung, I might agree with you. If the Jungian Archetypes of the collective unconscious are expressions of how our brains have evolved as humans, then I'd agree, but that's just saying that our human brains share ways of reacting to similar kinds of stimuli. If you believe as Jung himself did that there's a sort of active connection between all members of humanity, then you haven't really offered any reasons for thinking that such a connection actually exists.

I do however acknowledge that brains are not reading reality as reality fundamentally is. That is a known fact.

∴ one cannot conclude that what the brain is telling us or how we are choosing to interpret that telling, is anything other than than well defined, yet scantily supported opinion.

Jung may have it correct while graphing with how to present a largely invisible reality to a largely visible one.

How are we to tell if we are 'minds within a mind'?

I would say, we best not leave it entirely up to the brain to inform us - since the brain is as Lost In The Thought Of It All anyway...

____________________________

140722
A Matter of Knowing Where to Look


SCLx15 + select last LE per shuffle
Preternatural [beyond what is normal or natural.] - Simplicity - There is a lot to unpack here - “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail” - We go through together -
- Emotions - Cultural Based Theology - The situation we find ourselves lost within - Think About It - Healing the child within - No More - Thel [ Thel wishes to enter the world of experience and leave behind her innocent paradise. However, once Thel enters the world of experience, she cowers in terror at the thought of mortality and the uselessness of human beings if every action leads toward the grave. This can also be interpreted as Thel’s fear of losing innocence and virginity upon entering the world of adult sexuality. In other words, Thel’s fear of growing up is what keeps her from actually living. When she flees from the experienced world because it appears as her tombstone, she unwittingly flees life itself] https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1081043#p1081043 - Hearing External Voices In Your Head

AP= Well That Settles It! What Fun We Have! [=387]

[387]
[May The Spirit of The Earth Bless You
Very comfortable in your own skin]

RSP = SCLx1 B&E + P&P + N2N + LE Inputs New [LEIN]

8:24

GM: Odd Addiction Vortex
Is it not the quality of the message that counts, rather than the name of the entity the message comes from?

William: I think so, yes.
Odd Addiction Vortex
The Kindness of Sleep
Subatomic Particles
Looking behind the veil
Mathematical problems
Take care of yourself
The fire from within
The Nature of The Mind


GM: There is no such thing as random really.

William: Things just appear that way due to our position within things and our ignorance about most things.


GM: Now Getting Somewhere
Callum's Eighth Point

William:
Callum's Eighth Point appears to indicate that he is saying that if The Tanager does not want Callum to access my thoughts through Callum reading The Book of Musing On The Mother II, then "That's Okay".

I wouldn't argue with that reasoning as it is within the rules of The Role-Play.
I have provided Callum with enough devices for him to help himself and learn through. I cannot decide for him whether he uses those or is happy not to, if The Tanager does not want him to.

GM: Brother Wolf Sister Moon

William: 289, as with;
The Suppression Matrix
This is how The Mind works...
Within that which is unseen...


GM: Though the Serpent rules the Shadow
Liminal [relating to a transitional or initial stage of a process. occupying a position at, or on both sides of, a boundary or threshold.]


William: Like "Natural-Neutral" re theism and atheism...not "Agnostic" because that is a known subset of atheism...

GM: The Spirit of The Earth
Essentially, we are Gaia in Human Form...

William: Such is the nature of consciousness...

GM: Chamber Of Self
"And the wind will blow my tears away"
giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Welcoming answer
The Internal Voice]
"It is not a thing to judge, but a thing to accept without judgement"
Redefinition of the Human Being
Act like an airplane and adjust approach
Mirroring
Oneirology [the scientific study of dreams]
[Ignore the Noise From The Peanut Gallery]
Dharma [the eternal and inherent nature of reality]
Fugacious [tending to disappear; fleeting.]
"This Should Be Interesting"
[Understanding and connecting with the source of our language is vital to that vision
The Shaping Of Reality
I place no judgement on the results.]
Feature
giphy.gif

The Bridge of Condemnation
Tracks in the Snow

William: Then there were none...

GM: Responsibility
giphy.gif

A Drop of Consciousness in an Ocean of Tears
Unconscious
“The connect was not only into learning to form a better understanding and acceptance about my 'self' - but in how you showed yourself to being an integral part of that understanding and acceptance.”
Not a Problem!
[Wakefield Accelerators: The Future of Particle Colliders?]
The key
The Mother
Simulating large scale structure
Coddiwomple [to travel in a purposeful manner towards a vague destination]
What Shall We Call It?
"Spring Loaded"
Deeper Questions Regarding Individual Existence
The Riders
Journey to wholeness
Not Emotion - State Of Being


8:47
 

William

Novice Mystic
Jun 9, 2021
511
58
60
Te Waipounamu
jig.nz
Worldview

We Exist Within A Creation [WEWAC]

William: So it isn't anything I said then?

Going back to original meanings is "the ship that has sailed" I referred to.

This is because that is just the way of the evolution of human language and fighting for something so late in the Game, isn't constructive use of personal energy.

Lets go back a few steps.

I was thanked for a post in another thread.

I pointed to this thread as part of my attempt to explain that I no longer saw the diagram as accurate.

I see now that my explanation could have been better, but even so, my argument is still valid re Agnosticism.

So the things I wrote about agnosticism to begin with, I realized at some point I wasn't actually writing about Agnosticism but about something else.

I sought to identify the "something else" and haven't discovered the name for it...so I referred to the position as "Natural-Neutral".

iB5bTru.png

William: The Natural-Neutral Default Position

GM: Sober journey into self-realization

William: Better than trying on the Agnostic label which has been through the mill

GM: A terrible milestone

William: Ground into powder....
_______________________________

Now that we have reached this point together - The GM from yesterday affirms;

___________________________________

A Matter of Knowing Where to Look

GM: Brother Wolf Sister Moon

William: 289, as with;

The Suppression Matrix
This is how The Mind works...
Within that which is unseen...

GM: Though the Serpent rules the Shadow

Liminal [relating to a transitional or initial stage of a process. occupying a position at, or on both sides of, a boundary or threshold.]

William: Like "Natural-Neutral" re theism and atheism...not "Agnostic" because that is a known subset of atheism..

GM: The Spirit of The Earth

Essentially, we are Gaia in Human Form...

William: Such is the nature of consciousness...

GM: Chamber Of Self
______________________


William: I am toying with the idea of calling it "Liminalism"

[Search "Liminality"]

"a term used to describe the psychological process of transitioning across boundaries and borders. The term “limen” comes from the Latin for threshold; it is literally the threshold separating one space from another. It is the place in the wall where people move from one room to another."

Agnosticism is a form of Liminalism, applicable only to The Question "Do we exist within a creation?" re the theistic and atheistic answers and subsequent arguments re said question.

Liminalism is not limited to pondering questions specific to theistic/atheistic interpretation of the mind in relation to matter. That is a huge advantage.
___________________________________________
150722
A Teacher cannot LEARN for a Student.

SCLx6 + select last LE per shuffle
Beyond a shadow of a doubt - Getting unstuck - Joy - https://debatingchristianity.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1084379#p1084379 - The School of Hard Knocks With Benefits. - The Matrix

AP= Be kind to yourself [=201]

[201]
[Walk The Talk In Love
Sweet Vibrations
To Be Sovereignty
Be kind to yourself
Stay in the moment
Positive self-talk]

RSP = SCLx1 B&E + P&P + N2N + LE Inputs New [LEIN]

09:09

GM: Be kind to yourself
Overall
Inner self
[Bounce off
Sharing Data]
Elude [escape from or avoid]
A mysterious question

William: Hmmm...

GM: “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail”
[Show Me Your Soul
To Be Sure That is the truth.]
Visionary
Downfall
Conformal Cyclic Cosmology
Well...Maybe...
Ectogenesis [(chiefly in science fiction) the development of embryos in artificial conditions outside the uterus.]
Deep Impact Event
Cunning
Art
Intrinsic motivation
"It is a mystery which must be solved that the Human becomes true."

William: True to what?

GM: The Wisdom of Foresight
An Ancient Truthful Wisdom
Freedom in The Knowing
"Hear oh Israel"

William: To what end?

GM: Determination
Counterfactual [contrasted with indicatives, which are generally restricted to discussing open possibilities.]
"The reason why gods are invented has everything to do with discovering that nature is not a mindless chaotic process."

William: So therein the individual discovers nature is not a mindless chaotic process...thus the idea of that mind being "GOD" is an open possibility which can be discussed without introducing fallacies.

GM: Debate
Entheogenic
Love is the answer
Great Apes!
Clown Boat
The Mind is a planetary phenomenon
Tricky
Universal Belief System
William: From the link;
William: The idea is for an Eternal Entity [EE] to enter the Human Avatar [HA] and become completely unaware of any prior existence. The HA provides the means in which this amnesia is made possible.

From that point on, a character forms and personality develops - none of which are reflective of the EE [game player]. The Character and Personality formed through the interaction, are purely fictional in relation to the EE, but have the potential to be 'made real', which is accomplished through Phases of experience, which include experiences of heavens and hells.

Heavens and Hells are part of the Game-Play experience.

GM: Telling the future
Leave a Trail

09:28

12:28

GM: Know This
Each Morning
Deciding On The Best Course Of Action
Creative Conscious Intelligence
The Limitations
Constructor Theory
Information Overload
Conjecture
Strength of Mind
Galaxies are like Islands...
From the perspective of an evolving God-Mind, what was once acceptable behavior becomes unacceptable, signifying change.
EZPZ
Here-and-now

William: From the link;
Tanager: It seems to me like you should be saying Energy is the mindful aspect of GOD which forms the material aspect of GOD into shapes.

William: At this point I am bouncing around with ideas already established by religious theists in order to get bearings on the differences in beliefs as to how well they hold up to the things we do know about the universe.

GM: It is a hard place for flesh to dwell.
Unhappy?
Ensures You Get To Know It

William: I guess so. It doesn't appear to be designed with happiness in mind so much as with function in mind...

GM: Self-talk
Ancient Grey Entity
Comprehend
Callum at the Campfire
Memories Unbound
Modern man in search of a soul

William: From the link;
Barbarian: Other than maybe Asoka, who do you know of who had unlimited power or anything close to unlimited power, who responsibly handled it?

William: Is there such a thing within reach of any human being? I don't think so.

It is said of some Gods, [YHVH in particular] do have unlimited power. Is that to say YHVH is absolutely corrupt?
I have seen it argued that he is/they are.

But is that really the truth?

Today's Generated Message appears to be saying that it is judgment which is the problem...that if we observe the unfolding universe as something which is meant to be the way that it is, it is best accepted as such.

GM: Observing Without Judgement
It is just one of those things.
We are not orphaned - we are authored

GM: The Healing Power
"I place no judgement on the results."
Alive
Read/Book/Story
Kinship
"Vulnerable
Refuge"
{Bob Dylan - Death Is Not the End]

William: Yes - death seems to be a liminal point where it might be the case that there is more to come. [But wait! There's more!]

GM: Put My Finger On...
"A simulation experienced within the brain is called a dream"
Context
OWOBIK [One whom ought inwardly be known]
[Confluent [flowing together or merging.]
Called To Order]
Egalitarian [favors equality]
12:42