Featured Immigration slightly decreased during President Trump and slightly increased during President Biden — or maybe not. < Different Sources! >

[Multicolored Lemur]

What we know about unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S.

The unauthorized immigrant population in the U.S. grew to 11 million in 2022, but remained below the peak of 12.2 million in 2007.

www.pewresearch.org

All this thunder about slight changes. The big change was from 1990 to 2007. All the same . . .

I think we should give conservatives what they want.

I’m making a judgment call that conservatives are very sincere, and I think they are, and it’s a top priority for them. And it’s a long-standing priority of theirs.

I’m generally going to go with President George W. Bush’s immigration plan from 2006 — back of line for long-time illegal residents + guest worker program.

President Obama had a plan from around 2013, but it’s going to be stuck with the liberal label. Even though it may not be all that different than President Bush’s.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Here are some of my thoughts on immigration:

- I'm a bit skeptical it will be solved as I think political motivations will often resort in selective and inconsistent standards/actions. For instance, if immigration benefitted Republicans, then you'd suddenly see them being just as loose on immigration as they accuse Democrats of being. I'm only speaking about the Republican leaders on average, and not the population who aren't as politically-driven (although some voters do go into sheep-mode and just unquestionably follow their leaders/party no matter what, it seems).
- Plus the efforts to stem immigration from just the northern triangle countries (Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador) is not enough since there's an increase of immigrants coming from other parts of the world:

The number of unauthorized immigrants from almost every world region increased. The largest increases were from the Caribbean (300,000) and Europe and Canada (275,000). One exception was Central America, which had led in growth until 2019 but saw no change after that.

After Mexico, the countries with the largest unauthorized immigrant populations in the U.S. in 2022 were:

• El Salvador (750,000)
• India (725,000)
• Guatemala (675,000)
• Honduras (525,000)

I also question where did this article get its information from:

The number of illegal immigrants in the country has roughly doubled under President Biden. The United States had some 10.2 million illegal immigrants in 2020, and another 10 million have entered during Biden’s presidency.

- TheHill

I tend to read and watch reporting from The Hill. Not saying that they aren't bias, but still a huge discrepancy. Unless the "entered" part in the article doesn't always translate into staying in the US, like if they are deported. Population probably applies only to those who reside in the US. Worth looking into more!

Edit to add clarification from the same article:

If some 10 million immigrants have crossed the border in the three years since Biden became president on Jan. 20, 2021, we could be looking at 15 million to 20 million more by the time he leaves office on Jan. 20, 2029.

According to Pew Research, there were only 3.5 million “unauthorized immigrants” — Pew’s term — living in the U.S. in 1990. That number peaked at 12.2 million in 2005, then gradually declined, including during the Trump years, to 10.2 million in 2019.

What about during the Biden years? According to U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), the Border Patrol had some 8.5 million illegal immigrant “encounters” from fiscal 2021 through November.

Besides the 8.5 million encounters, there are those who entered the U.S. illegally with the express intent of avoiding detection. Estimates put that number at 1.7 million “gotaways” over the past three years, which gives us the 10 million estimate.

Of course, these numbers are estimates. No one can be sure of the actual number, especially since many here illegally do their best not to be detected. Whatever the real number, it is larger than ever and growing quickly.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I tend to read and watch reporting from The Hill. Not saying that they aren't bias, but still a huge discrepancy.

At my best, I let that discrepancy just simmer and pulsate. Okay, two sources have really different estimates.

When I’m not at my best, I go with pre-conceived!

Or sometimes just due to time, I’m going to have to go with what I’m familiar with.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Or sometimes just due to time, I’m going to have to go with what I’m familiar with.

I think most have to do that.

At my best, I let that discrepancy just simmer and pulsate. Okay, two sources have really different estimates.

Yes. Agreed. I think there are some nuances that make this tricky like when my article talks about "encounters" at the border while yours probably focuses on those that have settled in the US.

Either way, I am doubtful that we will get immigration reform anytime soon under any party.

I think Trump, if he wins, would increase deportations but he wouldn't seek to deport every single one. I think that would be impractical. I honestly think Trump or Kamala would have some amnesty in place. As you brought up earlier, I am with you on the guest worker program. Hek, I'm even for giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses and temporary green cards right away. Without these things, employers will take advantage of migrants that don't have any legal documents. I've seen it personally and was disgusted by it.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I am with you on the guest worker program. Hek, I'm even for giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses and temporary green cards right away. Without these things, employers will take advantage of migrants that don't have any legal documents. I've seen it personally and was disgusted by it.

I am with you on the guest worker program. Hek, I'm even for giving illegal immigrants driver's licenses and temporary green cards right away. Without these things, employers will take advantage of migrants that don't have any legal documents. I've seen it personally and was disgusted by it.

Good for you!

I thinking listening respectfully to our own emotions is usually a very good way. When our emotions aren’t there, often due to fatigue as much as anything else, our intellect can lead the way.

But we’re at our best when we have both.

I’m liking the shorthand “Guest Worker, Not Tied to One Employer.” Let the market work, line it dies fir regular worker [ not perfectly by any means, but better than the alternative!]

&

“Earned Amnesty, Back of the Line”

Because if the long-term plan is to allow any of the persons who entered our country illegally and built lives to stay, we’re going to be accused of “amnesty” anyway. I say, we might as well embrace that term anyway and spell out our qualifications.

In a sense, I’m more concerned with the medium-term.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

During the debate, I heard Trump try to explain his position on deporting all illegal immigrants. I don't think he said anything memorable other than just relying on law enforcement.

But I've had a little change in position lately, but only in terms of being more open. In principle, I'm not against mass deportations of illegal immigrants since they have broken the law. But, I would also be open to mass amnesty for illegal immigrants already in the country if, and only if, there was comprehension immigration reform first - as in closing all of the easy loopholes for immigrants to just claim asylum, etc. I'm really leaning towards the latter and hope that is what Trump eventually does, if elected. I believe Kamala would do it, if elected.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

I'm not against mass deportations of illegal immigrants since they have broken the law. But, I would also be open to mass amnesty for illegal immigrants already in the country if, and only if, there was comprehension immigration reform first - as in closing all of the easy loopholes for immigrants to just claim asylum, etc.

I’d urge you to adopt one type of conservative position —

No jarring changes.

Let’s look at our state of Georgia around 2010 or 2011. They changed some state laws and were too successful at getting illegal immigrants to self-deport [ at least to other states] . And there was a real question whether their crops could get harvested that year. So, I say …

Finish the Wall, Border Security, AND a Guest Worker Program not tied to 1 Employer so it won’t be abusive. Get this package passed and enacted.

And then next step …

Earned Amnesty Back of the Line. Meaning, I’m pretty strict. In fact, I pull a lot from an address to the nation President Bush gave in 2006.

 

[Multicolored Lemur]

Google Search —> Bush immigration 2006

President Bush Addresses the Nation on Immigration Reform

In a Live Address to the Nation, President Bush said, "We're a nation of laws, and we must enforce our laws. We're also a nation of immigrants, and we must uphold that tradition, which has strengthened our country in so many ways. These are not contradictory goals. America can be a lawful...

georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov

May 15, 2006 —

“I believe that illegal immigrants who have roots in our country and want to stay should have to pay a meaningful penalty for breaking the law, to pay their taxes, to learn English, and to work in a job for a number of years. People who meet these conditions should be able to apply for citizenship, but approval would not be automatic, and they will have to wait in line behind those who played by the rules and followed the law. What I've just described is not amnesty, it is a way for those who have broken the law to pay their debt to society, and demonstrate the character that makes a good citizen.”

=======

On first reading, I thought the requirement to learn English was unfair, because not everyone is good at learning a language as an adult. But maybe, if you can’t learn English, this isn’t the country for you.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

@Multicolored Lemur

Love the ideas in both of your last posts. It's sorta like a middle-ground position. There's a penalty involved and amnesty. I could see both the amnesty side and deportation side settling for that - compromise is not a bad thing afterall.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

But, I would also be open to mass amnesty for illegal immigrants already in the country if, and only if, there was comprehension immigration reform first - as in closing all of the easy loopholes for immigrants to just claim asylum, etc.

Here goes one of Trump's plans that is hard to swallow, and I think it is cruel:

Former President Donald Trump is promising to remove Temporary Protected Status and deport the Haitian migrants in Springfield, Ohio — an escalation in rhetoric against a community his campaign has targeted with misinformation for weeks.

“Absolutely I’d revoke it and I’d bring them back to their country,” Trump told NewsNation.

In his interview with NewsNation, Trump said the influx of migrants in the community “just doesn’t work” and “you have to remove the people; we cannot destroy our country.” Roughly 15,000 Haitian migrants have relocated to Springfield in recent years, according to the Associated Press.

Temporary Protected Status allows migrants to stay in the U.S. when their countries are unsafe to return to. In many cases, the countries are undergoing armed conflict, but environmental disasters and other conditions can also lead to TPS being granted. There are currently 16 countries whose citizens have TPS in the U.S. As of March 31, there were over 860,000 people in the U.S. with the temporary status, according to the American Immigration Council.

Source: Politico

The reason why I find this cruel is because it is the same way the US has treated the Dreamers (those under DACA). We tell them they are allowed to stay, but then all it takes is for another US President to come in and reverse that. Just think that these people with established lives, having to go through all of that uncertainty, and having their fate be part of a political football, one moment their good, and another they have to worry about having their lives uprooted. I would imagine that those granted TPS would go through the same.