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AgnosticBoy

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Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization. It can lead to such issues as discrimination in criminal justice, employment, housing, health care, political power, and education, among other issues.
Source: Institutional racism - Wikipedia

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Does systemic racism exists in the United States?
 
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AgnosticBoy

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In my view, systemic racism no longer exists in the United States but rather isolated incidents of racism still exist. Some that believe systemic racism exists usually support their point by showing the racial disparities in our justice system, educational system, health care system, etc.

Here are two big reasons why I don't accept that systemic racism exists any more:
- Those that see systemic racism are often too quick to jump to race. When people do this they fail to distinguish if some factor (e.g. race) is a cause or if it's just correlation, or incidental, or secondary. This point of mine can be applied so all of the examples of systemic racism that people tend to bring up. For instance, take police shootings of Blacks. Is it a frequent occurrence because of race or is it being done because resisting the police, and Blacks just happen to resist more than any other race, on average?

Let's also consider the justice system. In our justice system, do Blacks go to jail more because of racism or is it because they can't afford good attorneys? If the latter then the problem is classism and not racism.

- There are too many examples of Blacks and other minorities becoming successful throughout many different areas of life. If systemic racism exists then minorities could not become successful.
 
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AgnosticBoy

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If systemic racism exists in the US today, I would expect to see the oppressed never succeed. I don't see that nowadays since I see plenty minorities succeeding in life or having the opportunities to succeed. As I brought up before, we do have instances of racism and even the leftover effects from a systemic racist past, but I think those effects will die out as more and more minorities become successful, and pass that on to the newer generations.

We already have instances of minorities, particularly Blacks and Hispanics, having kids who never grew up in poverty. That's a huge improvement where in times past we would've expected for all minorities to have a poor upbringing or come from the "ghetto". This trend will only increase as we create equal opportunities for success.
 
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Nov 23, 2021
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For instance, take police shootings of Blacks. Is it a frequent occurrence because of race or is it being done because resisting the police, and Blacks just happen to resist more than any other race, on average?

Too high a standard. You seem to be asking for 100% proof, which in a social studies type of question, we’re very unlikely to get.

Whereas, if we get 80% probability, we’re probably doing pretty well. That would be true for a seasoned poker player, a seasoned political, or a seasoned emergency room physician.

My guess would be that African-American persons do better than average in police encounters, because it’s something black citizens talk about and think about more. Often, their parents even talk about it with them.

============

(for me as a white guy, one time when I was adult, my Dad said always keep you hands at the top of the steering wheel.

(we had been stopped by a police officer when taking the older father of a family friend home

(my Dad meant well, but I’m going to count this advice as too little, too late)
 
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Nov 23, 2021
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If systemic racism exists in the US today, I would expect to see the oppressed never succeed.

But some African-Americans succeeded even in 1910 when we clearly had systemic racism (although Woodrow Wilson would soon make it worse).

To me, it’s entirely possible that we could have stupid and unnecessary obstacles, and some persons who are members of a minority might still make it.
 

AgnosticBoy

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Too high a standard. You seem to be asking for 100% proof, which in a social studies type of question, we’re very unlikely to get.

Whereas, if we get 80% probability, we’re probably doing pretty well. That would be true for a seasoned poker player, a seasoned political, or a seasoned emergency room physician.
This is a good point to keep in mind. My example about Blacks and deadly police encounters was more about correlation vs. causation.

But some African-Americans succeeded even in 1910 when we clearly had systemic racism (although Woodrow Wilson would soon make it worse).

To me, it’s entirely possible that we could have stupid and unnecessary obstacles, and some persons who are members of a minority might still make it.
I put that in the category of being a fluke. However, Blacks succeeding today I put in the category of a norm or becoming one, at least. And I say this believing that there are probably racist institutions in existence today but I wouldn't call it systemic because it is not nation-wide.
 
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Nov 23, 2021
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To me, mass incarceration is big, bad thing which other countries did not experience.

I’d say we have too many white citizens in prison. We certainly have too many African-American citizens in prison or on parole.

And I think they’ve done studies that at every step of the way, who’s more likely to get arrested, indicted if arrested, length of sentence if convicted, and your odds are worse if you’re a black person.

Yes, there’s also class and income level as you point out. But I still think there’s a big dollop of racism.

———-


However, if I’m an African-American person myself, or a teacher with many of my students being black, defeatism is no way to play the poker hand. I kind of need to assume the system is fair enough.
 
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AgnosticBoy

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Yes, there’s also class and income level as you point out. But I still think there’s a big dollop of racism.
I can accept that race plays a role. It would likely happen more in jurisdictions that have all or mostly Caucasians in power. I would hope that the disparity between the treatment of races is not as bad in more diverse jurisdictions or ones where the majority are African-American, like say, in Atlanta.
 
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