Featured Are racial dating preferences a form of racism?

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TracyRN

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A friend of mine is obsessed with Hispanic men. She likes them tall, tan, and handsome. We discussed if that was racist in any way.

Here is one good article I wanted to share with you guys:
Is It Racist to Have a Racial Dating Preference? by Kyndall Cunningham

I wont post the entire article here but I will go over some ideas I like and what helped me answer the question on dating racial preferences vs. racism. The first thing that caught my eye is that there was even a term for this, which is "sexual racism".

"The term "sexual racism" has roots in the 1970s and was defined by Rutgers University professor Charles Herbert Stember as the "sexual rejection of the racial minority" and "the conscious attempt on the part of the majority to prevent interracial cohabitation. Modern usage of the term frequently refers to racial prejudice that's disguised as "just a preference" on dating apps and in real-life social settings."

The author gives evidence for sexual racism:
"In 2014, OkCupid founder Christian Rudder wrote a blog post analyzing race and attraction on the site. User data found that most men rated Black women as less attractive than women of other races. Likewise, Asian men were ranked as the least attractive group by most women."

"These stats echo the historical degradation and defeminization of Black women's appearances in racist media as well as the stereotypical feminization of Asian men in television and movies."

"Most importantly, people of color do not have the social power or influence that white people have when they use harmful stereotypes to reject entire groups of people. Nor are there systems in place that enforce the idea that white people are undesirable."


My conclusion is that dating preferences are a form of racism if they are based on negative stereotypes.
 
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AgnosticBoy

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Hey there Tracy. Good topic.

I actually agree with your conclusion but not for all the same reasons that your article mentions.

First, the author casts a lot of blame on what society does to minorities but then she mentions little to nothing about what large segments of a race may be doing themselves to cause negative impressions. I'm sure that there are perceived negatives in all races, but we should not always blame others or external factors for that.

Secondly, I don't think it's fair to call someone racist for not desiring a particular race in a romantic sense, while liking that same race in every other sense. I would expect for a real racist to be against or have negativity towards a race in virtually every sense (romantically, in terms of friendship, in the workplace, etc.). I know in my case I've found that there can be pretty women among any race but then I still have a race that I prefer the most.
 
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Mr. Johnson

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"First, the author casts a lot of blame on what society does to minorities but then she mentions little to nothing about what large segments of a race may be doing themselves to cause negative impressions"
I am African American, grew up in a home with both parents, college educated, career, and I can keep going. Your statements are downright offensive. Have you actually read any Black history? "What large segments of a race are doing themselves to cause negative impressions."
Your stereotypes show ignorance, and I mean that respectfully.

How are we the cause of negative impressions when..
1. Black women have become the most educated
2. It is not Blacks who receive the most income support
3. Black people in their ghettos
People of color are more likely to live in neighborhoods with concentrated poverty due to the long history of racial segregation in the United States.
Segregation has led to the dispossession of communities of color and their exclusion from economic prosperity while enabling White communities to accumulate wealth and resources.

Please man, do the world a favor and educate yourself on some history before spreading this nonsense.
 
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AgnosticBoy

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Your statements are downright offensive. Have you actually read any Black history? "What large segments of a race are doing themselves to cause negative impressions."
Your stereotypes show ignorance, and I mean that respectfully.
Hi Mr. Johnson... welcome to the forum!

I can honestly say that none of my comments are made with the intention of offending anyone. Ideally, I would hope for conversations where no one gets upset when everything is said in good faith and done respectfully. If you knew the full range of my views on race, then I'm sure you would see that I am definitely in favor of minorities prospering. Here and elsewhere, I've advocated for minorities to get into higher education so that more of them can go from poverty to success.

With that said, one aspect of my thinking that might offend people is that I tend to disagree with views on race that involve blaming all of the societal ills of Blacks (or any of the other minorities) on external factors (society, anything not involving the race itself). Of course, racism is not the fault of African Americans. But other societal ills are sometimes caused by African Americans.

With all that said, I'll address my specific claim which you quoted. I didn't even mention a specific race in my original comment but let's use African-Americans since that provides clear example. One negative view or outlook towards African-Americans is the negative behaviors (most call it "ghetto), like being loud, quick to fight, getting into trouble, etc. I'm well aware that this behavior is not isolated to Blacks nor does it apply to all Blacks, and it is behavior that can arise among people of any race that are in the low socioeconomic classes/neighborhoods. Unfortunately, Blacks tend to be associated with it a lot. One reason for that association is definitely racism. There are also some Black Americans that do engage in ghetto behavior and this is also a factor.
 
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Mr. Johnson

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But other societal ills are sometimes caused by African Americans.
There is no other. The societal ills are all part of the effects of racism and slavery. Blacks are still in chains. We have removed the physical chains but the societal chains still hold us back.

The fact that you don't see this shows that you don't understand history.

One reason for that association is definitely racism. There are also some Black Americans that do engage in ghetto behavior and this is also a factor.
Again, there is NO SUCH distinction. Those that make one are just trying to justify racism. As you said, there are ghetto people of every race - so why is it only that African Americans get broad brushed as being ghetto? The statistics show that Black females are the most educated in the US and somehow they have a poor or ghetto outlook? Come on bra.

African-Americans is the negative behaviors (most call it "ghetto), like being loud, quick to fight, getting into trouble, etc.
Whatever you say.
 

AgnosticBoy

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There is no other. The societal ills are all part of the effects of racism and slavery. Blacks are still in chains. We have removed the physical chains but the societal chains still hold us back.
Here's how I sum it up:
Being in ghettos is not the fault of minorities, but acting ghetto is. You don't even have to believe in free-will to accept this point. Just take a look of all of the examples of Black Americans (especially those from the Caribbean and Africa) that don't engage in ghetto behavior even while being in the ghettos. It's best to extend this beyond just behavior and focus on socioeconomic class, in general. It is not the fault of Black Americans that a lot of them started in a low socioeconomic status, but nowadays, given all of the opportunities, I have to say that blaming society is no longer valid. There are too many examples of Black Americans elevating their socio-economic status from poor to middle-class (and beyond), and all that is done through education, sports, etc. If society was holding you back then all or most Blacks would not make it, but majority are making it out, so there are obviously some individual factors (factors that involve the person as opposed to society).

The fact that you don't see this shows that you don't understand history.
This is an ad-hominem. We should be addressing each other's position and not our level of understanding.

Again, there is NO SUCH distinction. Those that make one are just trying to justify racism. As you said, there are ghetto people of every race - so why is it only that African Americans get broad brushed as being ghetto? The statistics show that Black females are the most educated in the US and somehow they have a poor or ghetto outlook? Come on bra.
It is a stereotype, and I agree with you that people should not assume that all Blacks are the same. Unfortunately, I think part of the problem is that there's a sizable population that stand out more and it's probably perceptions that are being carried over from recent history where a lot or most African-Americans were really in poverty. The older generations (those who were alive in the 1960's or even earlier) still carry that perception with them and probably relay that to their kids.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that this is right, but rather that it's the reason why it's easier to stereotype Blacks, overlooking the recent trends of the majority of them being out of poverty. I'm sure the media and television doesn't help because a lot of movies and shows that depict Black Americans tend to show them in poor areas, in the inner cities, engaged in crime, etc. Hek, some even brag about it.
 
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AgnosticBoy

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Hey Mr. Johnson, I really appreciate the conversation we're having so far. We obviously have some disagreements but this is not turning personal where members are assuming the worst about each other. Otherwise, people are afraid to have these conversations because they tend to turn ugly.

Also keep in mind that I sometimes don't end with the exact same position that I started out with, and that's because I like to progress towards the truth. I'm always willing to amend, change, or strengthen my position as I encounter good points from others.
 
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Mr. Johnson

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I have to say that blaming society is no longer valid.
That's a bold statement. I'm trying to be nice.

This is an ad-hominem. We should be addressing each other's position and not our level of understanding.
It is not ad hominem since I didn't use it as an argument.

It is a stereotype, and I agree with you that people should not assume that all Blacks are the same.
True.

Unfortunately, I think part of the problem is that there's a sizable population that stand out more and it's probably perceptions that are being carried over from recent history where a lot or most African-Americans were really in poverty. The older generations (those who were alive in the 1960's or even earlier) still carry that perception with them and probably relay that to their kids.
You were doing good but now you just shot yourself in the foot. You are making more excuses to justify racial stereotypes.
What is this sizable population? Do you think that if ghettoness did not exist, that the negative stereotypes would not exist? Do you honestly think that would get rid of racism?

recent history where a lot or most African-Americans were really in poverty.
You should really do research on affluent predominantly Black neighborhoods in Atlanta, in Maryland, in New York, in California.

You clearly do not understand the magnitude of racism so I will leave you with this post that was asked by an obviously ignorant person Why is it mostly Black people that live in the ghetto?
The black population is comprised almost entirely of the offspring of the African slaves kidnapped, sold and imported to work on Southern plantations mostly in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. When the Civil War ended in 1865, the slaves were freed from their bonds, but given no opportunity. They were ill-equipped to survive and were easily exploited and deliberately undereducated. They were inadequately compensated for the labor they were allowed and driven to the outskirts of survivability.

Blacks have been demonized, marginalized, used and abused. Ronald Reagan’s administration actually introduced the crack cocaine epidemic to the black population of south/central Los Angeles in order to illegally fund the Sandinistas fighting the Contras in Nicaragua which further dragged down an already struggling population. Subsequent laws required crack cocaine crimes carry an uncommonly harsh sentence. This obviously exacerbated the many problems, economic, social, and family, already rampant within the black community. Now too many black men are in prison and will spend a lifetime with a felony conviction that will stunt their opportunities. So opportunities, both educational and professional, have never really existed in our land of the free for a large portion of the population. Throughout history, all over the world, minority populations have been marginalized and labelled problematic. These people do not choose to live in poverty or the ghetto inner cities. We have failed them horribly for centuries. This will not change until we grow up as a society.

Stop spreading hate.
 

AgnosticBoy

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I have to say that blaming society is no longer valid.
That's a bold statement. I'm trying to be nice.
Most importantly, my claim is backed by evidence. There are opportunities and pathways for anyone (of any race) to make it out of poverty in America.

It is not ad hominem since I didn't use it as an argument.
Comments about a person that are negative are not allowed, even if it is true. What's allowed is respectful criticism about a view or statement. You can say that a view is biased, uninformed, etc. If I allow members to make negative comments or criticize a person or member (calling someone racist, stupid, uninformed) then things will likely turn very negative and ugly here.

You are making more excuses to justify racial stereotypes.
What is this sizable population?
I couldn't find any numbers or percentages to offer you here. Would someone even fund a study for that?

I can even drop the word "sizable" from my claim. I've been in poor Black neighborhoods, as I'm sure you have, and I can say that it's very common to see guys with pants on their butts and engaged in other behaviors that I brought up earlier. Do you at least agree that what I'm describing applies to more than just a handful of people in poor Black neighborhoods? Of course, if we look at the Black population as a whole, especially the ones that are outside of poor neighborhoods, then we can say that the majority of Black people don't fit the negative stereotypes of being ghetto.

So it's fair to say that there are two groups of Blacks, the ones that are ghetto and the ones that aren't.

You should really do research on affluent predominantly Black neighborhoods in Atlanta, in Maryland, in New York, in California. You clearly do not understand the magnitude of racism so I will leave you with this post that was asked by an obviously ignorant person Why is it mostly Black people that live in the ghetto?
You keep stating that I'm trying to justify negative racial stereotypes (I said they were wrong at the end of post #8 and my original comment that started all of this only applied to the bad groups of each race), but should I also say that you're just trying to justify the negative behavior of some Blacks? You don't want to speak about the negatives or have them brought up or just want to blame others for every problem?

Stop spreading hate.
Bringing up some of the negatives of a subgroup of a race (which I clearly specified) is not spreading "hate". What do you want, to just stay silent about it and then nothing gets fixed?